F**ked Black Rover 827 SLi - The Mistake Machine

[Bear]

Engine earth strap, if no sparks even for the explosive gas option?

[Lankytim]

7 minutes ago, RichardK said:

Engine earth strap, if no sparks even for the explosive gas option?

There was a spark at the plug lead ends, looked a bit yellow but strong enough. 

[Bear]

How frustrating. Wish I were a bit closer and could join in helping 😕

[barefoot]

18 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

strange that it wouldn't run on the Cosby-in-a-can

Sorry to be thick chaps, but what's this?

[JakeT]

Easy start, the main ingredient which is Ether.

[Noel Tidybeard]

cosby in a can

Ether/ starting fluid

Damn diesel won't start gotta give it some Cosby in a can to fire it up

[St.Jude]

There’s a lot to reply to here.

21 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Not intending to be critical of what you guys are doing btw. we all work different ways and I wasn't there.

I don’t think anyone here, especially me, has thought any different. Like @Matty said this place is full of top blokes and a lot of them are here.

I won’t be at the car this weekend, but next weekend I’ll go and provide a feed to the fuel pump. In the meantime I’m going to look at the diagrams etc and see if there is a secondary pump (probably isn’t) just in case.

I would like to check the strength of the spark too. We got a spark at the king lead and then at one of the plugs. But then I know @Lankytim commented that the spark was yellow in colour. So may be that the amplifier needs to be changed (which was mentioned by the exhaust people when it was cranking for them but not starting).

Once again thank you for all the help.

[Matty]

7 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

There’s a lot to reply to here.

I don’t think anyone here, especially me, has thought any different. Like @Matty said this place is full of top blokes and a lot of them are here.

I won’t be at the car this weekend, but next weekend I’ll go and provide a feed to the fuel pump. In the meantime I’m going to look at the diagrams etc and see if there is a secondary pump (probably isn’t) just in case.

I would like to check the strength of the spark too. We got a spark at the king lead and then at one of the plugs. But then I know @Lankytim commented that the spark was yellow in colour. So may be that the amplifier needs to be changed (which was mentioned by the exhaust people when it was cranking for them but not starting).

Once again thank you for all the help.

Can confirm @Mr Pastry knows his onions. Has pulled me out of the mire on more than one occasion! 😃

[Noel Tidybeard]

if the stars align you can use the power probe to prod the fule pump if that makes it easier/saferer 😁

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, barefoot said:

Sorry to be thick chaps, but what's this?

Yeabbut, what connects Ether with cosby?

[barefoot]

18 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Yeabbut, what connects Ether with cosby?

Fuck knows, that's why I asked.

[Noel Tidybeard]

i wondered if he'd used it to subdue his "friends"

[Bren]

Easy start is volatile. A yellow spark is a weak spark. Do these have an amplifier on the distributor?

[High Jetter]

Ether I know. Cosby, no- Bill's dead.

[St.Jude]

10 hours ago, Bren said:

Easy start is volatile. A yellow spark is a weak spark. Do these have an amplifier on the distributor?

Yeah it does, it’s perched near the wing above the fuse box.

[Bren]

19 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Yeah it does, it’s perched near the wing above the fuse box.

I know when these failed on SD1's ( only 3.5's had them ) the car would die completely but then restart once everything had cooled.

[mercedade]

On 05/05/2024 at 17:33, Lankytim said:

....maybe the incorrect relay is fitted?

Now, I may well be remembering the wrong 'restoration' thread of the previous owner, but I definitely remember there being plenty of fuckabout with relays, trying to find other relays from other cars, etc and so on, and my impression was certainly that the approach taken could well be the kind that leads to relays being borrowed from other cars and/or random things that fit just being wedged in.

[N Dentressangle]

11 hours ago, Bren said:

I know when these failed on SD1's ( only 3.5's had them ) the car would die completely but then restart once everything had cooled.

They're fitted to RRC's too:

G

Go down totally randomly - will start one moment then nothing the next. Can be responsible for a very weak spark, fooling you into thinking it should start. But it won't.

Sound familiar?

[rovik88]

Hi there,

I didn’t read all replies since my last visit, so apologies if it’s already mentioned.

Did you already check the main relay (officially ‘EFI relay’ in the docs)? A known issue was that the solder was badly done and it develops cold joints that crack, giving erratic behavior. The main relay controls your fuel pump and is interfaced with the ECU. It is not your everyday, simple relay. It is a key element of the entire starting and running states of the car. The Legend got it too. Takes a little searching, but there are good explanations out there. Let me know if you need practical info on this part and I’ll try to find something usable in my archives.

If spark is weak, you could (after checking/replacing plug leads) take a look at the igniter module. It amplifies the ECU spark output before it goes to the ignition coil (it’s basically a power transistor as the ECU, which gets it’s signal from the ignition pick-up sensor, can’t drive the coil directly). It is in the (attached) wiring diagrams (aka fault finding manual) 

Edit: Please see attached also schematic of the main relay. There are multiple editions of wiring through the years. If you have VIN earlier than 276672 you must use images 0174 and higher attached. Else use the other schematics. You can find it usually somewhere up in the driver’s and/or passenger’s footwell where more relays are located. Be warned: It can be hard to find.

Edited May 12, 2024 by rovik88
Main relay

[St.Jude]

Update…

Nothing has happened. One reason or another I’ve not been near it and there’s been a holiday etc. I have been looking for an igniter though. When I remember to anyway.

Was talking to a bloke at work today as he asked about it. He threw up the possibility that the exhaust place who had it when it was cranking, but then failed to start, it’s possible they may have disconnected some gearbox wiring underneath while doing the exhaust.

Very possible, and not a difficult thing to look at/for. So that’ll be something to look for next time I’m there.

[St.Jude]

Little update.

There was a Rover 827 Sterling that had a fight with a tree. The tree won.

An oak tree fell on it, and it completely fucked it. As is typical with the internet, many a person said it could be fixed. I messaged the guy asking for some parts if he was breaking it but heard nothing. Someone else on the group had bought it for a few parts himself, and was parting the car out.

I messaged him with a list and he said “ok I’ll have to cut the bonnet open”. Thought that was weird, but the car is banana’ed. The bonnet, the doors, even the boot won’t open right. It’s properly collapsed on the passenger A pillar, and while the original owner had plans to restore it - if the tree didn’t get it the rust would have. It is set in in places you could never see.

Anyway, this is wot I got.

Ignition igniter.
Ignition coil.
Inhibitor switch.
Main Relay.
2 relays for around where the passenger light sits.
Control unit.

All in for £30. The main relay, on the outside at least, is in much better condition than mine. The ignition coil actually looks to fit mine but can’t remember off hand.

I won’t be at it next weekend, maybe next weekend I’ll change a few of these around and maybe it’ll move.

[Honey Badger]

On 08/04/2023 at 10:33, Honey Badger said:

You normally hear a buzz as it brings the pressure up in the fuel system, if i think about it my D16 engine Rover 216 did the same.

I had to replace the main relay in My Accord Coupe with the J series V6, it was £60 from Honda.

 

This is worth repeating, if your getting no fuel pressure it's likely the pump isnt priming due to the Fuel relay being borked, usually dry joints.

When My V6 Accord wouldn't start it would crank and crank but no fuel was present as the fuel pump was getting no power.

It's worth taking the top off that Mitsuba relay and checking that it's working properly and there are no obvious dry joints.

If you need a new one they are reasonable from Honda main dealers, it might be worth asking Cox's Honda how much one would cost.

Good luck with it, hope the new parts fix it.

[St.Jude]

18 hours ago, Honey Badger said:

This is worth repeating, if your getting no fuel pressure it's likely the pump isnt priming due to the Fuel relay being borked, usually dry joints.

When My V6 Accord wouldn't start it would crank and crank but no fuel was present as the fuel pump was getting no power.

It's worth taking the top off that Mitsuba relay and checking that it's working properly and there are no obvious dry joints.

If you need a new one they are reasonable from Honda main dealers, it might be worth asking Cox's Honda how much one would cost.

Good luck with it, hope the new parts fix it.

So the relay I have had water damage, but it looks proper battered on the outside anyway. 

Fuel relay wise it was sticking on a bench test, but was working over all. But I’m going to swap that first and see if it makes a difference. Regardless, other than it being a backward step and the car not working at all, the new one will go in full time.

[Schaefft]

A relay can be jumped. All you need is a piece of wire to create the bridge the relay would otherwise create. If the relay really is the problem then you could very easily rule that out. Stick a wire in the right connectors the relay would normally plug into and the pump would immediately buzz away.

[Lankytim]

21 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Little update.

There was a Rover 827 Sterling that had a fight with a tree. The tree won.

An oak tree fell on it, and it completely fucked it. As is typical with the internet, many a person said it could be fixed. I messaged the guy asking for some parts if he was breaking it but heard nothing. Someone else on the group had bought it for a few parts himself, and was parting the car out.

I messaged him with a list and he said “ok I’ll have to cut the bonnet open”. Thought that was weird, but the car is banana’ed. The bonnet, the doors, even the boot won’t open right. It’s properly collapsed on the passenger A pillar, and while the original owner had plans to restore it - if the tree didn’t get it the rust would have. It is set in in places you could never see.

Anyway, this is wot I got.

Ignition igniter.
Ignition coil.
Inhibitor switch.
Main Relay.
2 relays for around where the passenger light sits.
Control unit.

All in for £30. The main relay, on the outside at least, is in much better condition than mine. The ignition coil actually looks to fit mine but can’t remember off hand.

I won’t be at it next weekend, maybe next weekend I’ll change a few of these around and maybe it’ll move.

I might be in the area so I’ll drop in if possible.

[Noel Tidybeard]

 

i'll wager the one near the centre is making you twitch just a little bit🤣

[St.Jude]

Got a text and a video from my sister today.

This jackass rings the door, mom’s at home but doesn’t really pay much attention to the doorbell. She hears a car door opening and goes to the window.

This prick just helps himself, opening the car door and having a good look (at a mess really). Wants to know if it’s for sale. The mother says no, it’s a friends car. He says OK and goes off.

So she’s keen to see the car move, or at least be locked!

[camryv6]

I clicked the the video lol

[St.Jude]

2 minutes ago, camryv6 said:

I clicked the the video lol

I’d upload it but fucked if I know how.

Well I do know but I just can’t be arsed. All it is he rings it, looks at the car and tries the door. Then he gives it a look.

[mk2_craig]

40 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

Wants to know if it’s for sale. The mother says no

I thought it was?