Peak Car.

[Barry Cade]

51 minutes ago, goosey said:

Anyone remember the interview with that couple who won the National lottery many years ago, when asked what their first purchase would be the bloke immediately responded-

“A top of the range Renault Laguna”

Was he on some sort of  Brewsters Millions deal?

[Rightnider]

15 minutes ago, sierraman said:

The Mk3 was leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk2 but I’d not call the diesels peak car

I couldn’t tell, I’ve just had 2-litre petrols, but I guess you’re right. 

[sierraman]

4 minutes ago, Rightnider said:

I couldn’t tell, I’ve just had 2-litre petrols, but I guess you’re right. 

2.0 petrol is ok. 

[sutty2006]

35 minutes ago, sierraman said:

The Mk3 was leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk2 but I’d not call the diesels peak car. Great new as a company car but way way too problematic as they got past 5 years old. EGR resembling something from the carboniferous period, incontinent injectors, variable vanes coking up, fuel pumps committing and taking the injectors with them, injectors bollocksed by 100,000, the two thermostats constantly failing, DMFs crapping out at 100k, perpetually leaking rear calipers, subframe bushes falling out, brake pipes rotting for fun as they go over the tank... no thanks!! 

Just like every car on the road really. You get good ones and bad ones. One ST I had had a new clutch and flywheel because the slave failed and it was rude not to chuck a genuine clutch kit in at the same time. EGRs were crap but piss easy to change. Turbo veins, yeah pretty crap, but I got dab handy changing them from above. Only had injector issues on the 2.2 titanium which had done closer to 200k. Rear calipers, yep, again poor but easy to change along with crap handbrake cables etc. I just found the mk3 an easy car to work on apart from coding injectors in. (Because I didn’t bother with computer stuff). Would still have another. 

[Metal Guru]

57 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

Was he on some sort of  Brewsters Millions deal?

Another guy (or it could have been the same one possibly), said he’d buy his wife a Nissan Micra. I told my wife and said she could have a Micra too if we won the lottery. She replied , if I bought her one, she’d leave with half the money!

[MiniMinorMk3]

For popping into to town for some light shopping you can not get better than...

and when you need some extra space.

[Rust Collector]

I reckon an early Xsara estate with an XUD engine has to be one of the best compromises between function, comfort, efficiency and reliability despite the reputation of French electrickery.

If you prefer petrol then probably a late 90's/early 00's Avensis with the 2 litre lean burn engine, I got 40+ mpg out of mine on long drives.

I'll echo what others have said though, and point out that the better a car is at being an all rounder the more boring they seem to become.

[Barry Cade]

28 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

 

I'll echo what others have said though, and point out that the better a car is at being an all rounder the more boring they seem to become.

You have to dig deep and appreciate the engineering and quality though, like the difference between an Amstrad stereo and a Becker.. less about the touchscreens and flashy lights, and more about what you can't see.. all about perceived quality now rather than deep down engineering. Think about the former, then their replacement.

Mk2 to mk3 golf

W124 to W210

W201 to W202

E34 to E36

Mk3 Cav to Vectra

Xsara to C4

Sierra to Mondeo

All around late 80s to early 90s ish where quality gave way to profit. Emissions regs started to bite and electrics were controlled by black boxes rather than switches and relays. Premium brands went downmarket to chase volume so lower brands had to raise their game to compete, so Ford got better and Mercedes-Benz turned to crap.

I started in the trade early 90s and watched as things changed. I will admit they got better and better to drive, until the Nurburgring lap times started to come in and everything had 40 series tyres and rock hard suspension, while our roads got worse and worse. 

Everyone will have their own opinion on the best car, or peak car but I think rather than an individual car based on personal experience, it has to be a moment in time where the planets aligned and the product was fit for purpose... moving people and things from place to place.

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, sutty2006 said:

Just like every car on the road really. You get good ones and bad ones. One ST I had had a new clutch and flywheel because the slave failed and it was rude not to chuck a genuine clutch kit in at the same time. EGRs were crap but piss easy to change. Turbo veins, yeah pretty crap, but I got dab handy changing them from above. Only had injector issues on the 2.2 titanium which had done closer to 200k. Rear calipers, yep, again poor but easy to change along with crap handbrake cables etc. I just found the mk3 an easy car to work on apart from coding injectors in. (Because I didn’t bother with computer stuff). Would still have another. 

I just don’t see the point when you can get a Mk4 which is streets ahead reliability wise. 

[GeordieInExile]

It's fast enough, it's got enough toys, it's big enough for a tip run/furniture collection jaunt, it'll do 30mpg on a run, it has comfy seats, the heater is like a furnace, it's reliable and it's got racing cred. 

Mine has seriously tested my patience at times, but I love it to bits and if I got rid I just wouldn't find another car that was as consistently able to do what I want and need a car to do. This is the most "me" car I've ever had, and therefore for me is Peak Car.

 

[sierraman]

4 hours ago, Barry Cade said:

You have to dig deep and appreciate the engineering and quality though, like the difference between an Amstrad stereo and a Becker.. less about the touchscreens and flashy lights, and more about what you can't see.. all about perceived quality now rather than deep down engineering. Think about the former, then their replacement.

Mk2 to mk3 golf

W124 to W210

W201 to W202

E34 to E36

Mk3 Cav to Vectra

Xsara to C4

Sierra to Mondeo

All around late 80s to early 90s ish where quality gave way to profit. Emissions regs started to bite and electrics were controlled by black boxes rather than switches and relays. Premium brands went downmarket to chase volume so lower brands had to raise their game to compete, so Ford got better and Mercedes-Benz turned to crap.

I started in the trade early 90s and watched as things changed. I will admit they got better and better to drive, until the Nurburgring lap times started to come in and everything had 40 series tyres and rock hard suspension, while our roads got worse and worse. 

Everyone will have their own opinion on the best car, or peak car but I think rather than an individual car based on personal experience, it has to be a moment in time where the planets aligned and the product was fit for purpose... moving people and things from place to place.

I thought the Mondeo was considerably better made than the Sierra, the quality of some of the Sierra were dire, bodywork rusting prematurely, engines fucked in no time, dashboards splitting etc etc. The one thing they really didn’t advance on was the durability of the suspension, Mondeo Mk1/2 were terrible for going through suspension components, namely the bottom arms/drop links. The amount of people who would wonder why it wouldn’t steer straight when they’d had it tracked but the bottom arm bushes were knocked out...

[Barry Cade]

18 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I thought the Mondeo was considerably better made than the Sierra, the quality of some of the Sierra were dire, bodywork rusting prematurely, engines fucked in no time, dashboards splitting etc etc. The one thing they really didn’t advance on was the durability of the suspension, Mondeo Mk1/2 were terrible for going through suspension components, namely the bottom arms/drop links. The amount of people who would wonder why it wouldn’t steer straight when they’d had it tracked but the bottom arm bushes were knocked out...

I worked for Ford in the 90's when the Mondeo and Focus were launched. We were all blown away on how far they moved the game forward from the Escort and Sierra, but starting around this time, a mere Ford wouldn't cut it in the company car park. I rated a Focus (still do) as much better than a Golf, or a 3 series compact. People wanted the blue and white roundel, or 4 rings on their grilles instead of the blue oval.. Then the fleet market realised the residuals on "premium" cars were much better than the hugely discounted mass market stuff so the company accountants went German.  Didn't matter what Ford did after that, it was all about driveway snobbery. Then they went for volume and profit and a multitude of models to cover all niches of the market and quality didn't matter, especially if was trouble free in warranty. They've finally killed off Mondeo, and soon Focus and Fiesta.  It started in the 90's...

[sierraman]

53 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

I worked for Ford in the 90's when the Mondeo and Focus were launched. We were all blown away on how far they moved the game forward from the Escort and Sierra, but starting around this time, a mere Ford wouldn't cut it in the company car park. I rated a Focus (still do) as much better than a Golf, or a 3 series compact. People wanted the blue and white roundel, or 4 rings on their grilles instead of the blue oval.. Then the fleet market realised the residuals on "premium" cars were much better than the hugely discounted mass market stuff so the company accountants went German.  Didn't matter what Ford did after that, it was all about driveway snobbery. Then they went for volume and profit and a multitude of models to cover all niches of the market and quality didn't matter, especially if was trouble free in warranty. They've finally killed off Mondeo, and soon Focus and Fiesta.  It started in the 90's...

It’s changing times I guess, no point plugging in with things people don’t want. The market is moving towards SUVs, if it was your business you’d do the same.

[Zelandeth]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:02 PM, jonathan_dyane said:

Nothing beats a Saab 900, ideally Turbo 8 valve 5 door. If you get a good one and can afford to keep it in petrol there is no better car.

The two things against them for me would have to be the scarcity of examples with air con, plus of course the thirst.  

Though it was only the advancing rust really which put paid to my last one being my daily.  They really are cracking cars, especially when you think how old the design actually is.

[bigstraight6]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:52 PM, Barry Cade said:

200d. Manual . Keep fit windows. Wheel trims. Blue cloth. No extras.

The wiper clears 86% of the windscreen. The tail lights are designed to be visible in filthy weather.  Standard front fog lights. Warning triangle built into the bootlid.  Heated washer jets. Standard ABS brakes. first aid kit in case you go head on with a Volvo at 60mph, in case the Volvo driver has a few cuts and bruises. the best door close in the business. 

You can get a beige one that smells a little like Pilsner and sick, or one  built by Porsche if your budget is a bit bigger, with plenty in between. 

I'm all about the base.

W124 saloon for me, in 300D flavour or a Convertible or coupe with the 24 valve straight six petrol. I’ve got a lovely W208 that I love but the W124 was definitely peak Mercedes Benz.

[MJK 24]

[Missy Charm]

2 hours ago, Barry Cade said:

I worked for Ford in the 90's when the Mondeo and Focus were launched. We were all blown away on how far they moved the game forward from the Escort and Sierra, but starting around this time, a mere Ford wouldn't cut it in the company car park. I rated a Focus (still do) as much better than a Golf, or a 3 series compact. People wanted the blue and white roundel, or 4 rings on their grilles instead of the blue oval.. Then the fleet market realised the residuals on "premium" cars were much better than the hugely discounted mass market stuff so the company accountants went German.  Didn't matter what Ford did after that, it was all about driveway snobbery. Then they went for volume and profit and a multitude of models to cover all niches of the market and quality didn't matter, especially if was trouble free in warranty. They've finally killed off Mondeo, and soon Focus and Fiesta.  It started in the 90's...

Were you up at Brentwood?  Strangely, however, I distinctly remember the launch of the Mk1 Mondeo back in '93.  We were the just about upwardly mobile ordinary suburban family at that point, and the new Mondeo was viewed as manna from Heaven.  Gone was the nasty old Sierra, and here was the future.  I think, for us, it was so desirable because it was the attainable status symbol.  It was the car we knew that we'd be buying in a year or two when the first second hand examples began to turn up on dealers' forecourts.  I remember conversations in hushed tones about who would be the first in the neighbourhood to get a Mondeo and, when that had happened, what it was like to drive the things - wonderful apparently.  Yes, dear reader, we did get a Mondeo in the end: an L plate 1.8 maroon hatchback at some point in the nineties.  The Cavalier Mk3, which had been all the rage up to that point, became old hat overnight.  

We lived in Essex, which perhaps made a difference.

[Barry Cade]

11 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

Were you up at Brentwood?  Strangely, however, I distinctly remember the launch of the Mk1 Mondeo back in '93.  We were the just about upwardly mobile ordinary suburban family at that point, and the new Mondeo was viewed as manna from Heaven.  Gone was the nasty old Sierra, and here was the future.  I think, for us, it was so desirable because it was the attainable status symbol.  It was the car we knew that we'd be buying in a year or two when the first second hand examples began to turn up on dealers' forecourts.  I remember conversations in hushed tones about who would be the first in the neighbourhood to get a Mondeo and, when that had happened, what it was like to drive the things - wonderful apparently.  Yes, dear reader, we did get a Mondeo in the end: an L plate 1.8 maroon hatchback at some point in the nineties.  The Cavalier Mk3, which had been all the rage up to that point, became old hat overnight.  

We lived in Essex, which perhaps made a difference.

I just worked at a dealer in North Scotland.. I was never really a Mondeo man, at that time it was just another family car to me, but the Focus blew me away, especially after having served my apprenticeship at Vauxhall... Henry, the workshop foreman at Ford, drove the first Focus off the transporter, came back and ordered a new one straight away, to replace his 3 year old Cavalier SRi..

[FakeConcern]

Didn't Tony Blair coin the phrase "Mondeo man"?

[Three Speed]

Mk 1 Focus was a great car.

But for me, peak car was this:

which is why I have one. Roomy, steers well, handles well and stops well. Comes in several sizes and a roadster was available until 1939. Goes anywhere and looks great. They came out in 1934 but the peak is 1951 (like mine) if French or 1948 if English because they were the last year before the wipers moved to the bottom of the screen. 
Everything made since has variations on the same theme but with less easy access to the oily bits.

[Shedking]

I'd have a vote for the Mk3 Cavalier and Mk 4 Cortina, had both and enjoyed them immensely.  For the time period being mostly discussed say mid 90's to mid noughties  is roughly when the Germans started to lose the plot.

The accountants took over, out of the window went build quality and hewn from granite mechanicals, the 190 was replaced by the C class (oh dear) and up to this day they are trading off past glories selling sub standard junk at over inflated prices to the aspiring sheep.

French stuff gets an unfair time of it from the driving gods,  a lot of stuff written off as crap are actually super durable and long lived if they're looked after and make very good transport for many years. 

 

[Missy Charm]

51 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

Didn't Tony Blair coin the phrase "Mondeo man"?

No, that's a misattribution.  Blair came up with the phrase 'Sierra Man', i.e. a representation of solidly dull, middle-class England, in about 1992 - prior to the Mondeo's introduction.  A journalist found the quote some years later, post 1994, and updated it to 'Mondeo Man' in an article.  The alliteration was pleasing and the phrase became common parlance thanks to the newspaper.  Blair had the idea, therefore, but didn't coin the exact phrase.  'Sierra Man' as an expression in its own right never really troubled the national consciousness.

[Barry Cade]

5 minutes ago, Shedking said:

I'd have a vote for the Mk3 Cavalier and Mk 4 Cortina, had both and enjoyed them immensely.  For the time period being mostly discussed say mid 90's to mid noughties  is roughly when the Germans started to lose the plot.

The accountants took over, out of the window went build quality and hewn from granite mechanicals, the 190 was replaced by the C class (oh dear) and up to this day they are trading off past glories selling sub standard junk at over inflated prices to the aspiring sheep.

French stuff gets an unfair time of it from the driving gods,  a lot of stuff written off as crap are actually super durable and long lived if they're looked after and make very good transport for many years. 

 

A Megane or Scenic, the pre shake yer Ass one is one of those cars. I was always shocked when a really raggedy, dented and unloved one limped through the MOT station door, then sailed through with a pass. They take real neglect and abuse.. Timing belts seemed to kill them in the end. Peugeot 306 too. Rear axles wiped them out.

[FakeConcern]

4 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

No, that's a misattribution.  Blair came up with the phrase 'Sierra Man', i.e. a representation of solidly dull, middle-class England, in about 1992 - prior to the Mondeo's introduction.  A journalist found the quote some years later, post 1994, and updated it to 'Mondeo Man' in an article.  The alliteration was pleasing and the phrase became common parlance thanks to the newspaper.  Blair had the idea, therefore, but didn't coin the exact phrase.  'Sierra Man' as an expression in its own right never really troubled the national consciousness.

OK, I'd better put that in the mandela effect thread then!

[HMC]

It depends what the definition is. 
 

Male jewellery? Mass transport? Best value? Of lasting impact? For me it’s probably a Lamborghini miura, The Miura from that opening scene from the Italian job. Because despite what an underdeveloped subjectively awful, massively compromised vehicle it is that car and that scene and that era to me are the definition of peak car. More of an idea and feeling of freedom than anything else. Right up until Beckermann enters the tunnel at least.

 

[Barry Cade]

12 minutes ago, HMC said:

It depends what the definition is. 
 

Male jewellery? Mass transport? Best value? Of lasting impact? For me it’s probably a Lamborghini miura, The Miura from that opening scene from the Italian job. Because despite what an underdeveloped subjectively awful, massively compromised vehicle it is that car and that scene and that era to me are the definition of peak car. More of an idea and feeling of freedom than anything else. Right up until Beckermann enters the tunnel at least.

 

On days like those, long before peak traffic, and Lycra nutters. Try and drive an Alpine road in a Muira today and it'd be blowing steam and fouling plugs stuck behind a line of Dutch registered campervans full of Yoo Toobers. :0

[Rocket88]

Slightly tongue in cheek…. But one of these…. Ruinous fuel consumption, rot like buggery, but they have a certain villainous charm….Drive a scruffy one, and no one will EVER cut you up again…..

[MiniMinorMk3]

16 hours ago, HMC said:

It depends what the definition is. 
 

Male jewellery? Mass transport? Best value? Of lasting impact? For me it’s probably a Lamborghini miura, The Miura from that opening scene from the Italian job. Because despite what an underdeveloped subjectively awful, massively compromised vehicle it is that car and that scene and that era to me are the definition of peak car. More of an idea and feeling of freedom than anything else. Right up until Beckermann enters the tunnel at least.

 

The Miura is the best looking piece of kinetic art ever made.

[MiniMinorMk3]

This is peak car, 318i, does 40mpg if you take it easy, doesn't have too many stupid sensors to disable it. Handles all types of road and can carry a decent bit of stuff. This one was mine for 6 years and 70,000 miles.

[Shite Ron]

4 hours ago, Rocket88 said:

Slightly tongue in cheek…. But one of these…. Ruinous fuel consumption, rot like buggery, but they have a certain villainous charm….Drive a scruffy one, and no one will EVER cut you up again…..

I am not sure about the tongue in cheek part, this is a more valid suggestion than most of the others on here. I thought this was a site for car enthusiasts? The sixties was probably the peak for styling but I was not around to appreciate and enjoy it. I cannot believe the namby pamby comments about N cap and mega fuel economy, I thought I must be on mumsnet or some such nonsense The below is what I imagine you mean and looked even better up close. I have borrowed the picture from @Soundwaveas he is a much better photographer than me.