Hatred of French cars

[Shedking]

Over on PH the very mention of owning a French car will bring howls of derision and ridicule that you were stupid enough to buy a gallic pile of unreliable misery and instead should have opted for a hewn from granite piece of superior teutonic engineering that will run for 60 years between services and easily sail past the 3 million mile mark with minimal servicing. 

The thing is though I've had minimal fuss with French cars over the years. Yes I keep it simple with small n/a petrol engines but flimsy bodywork and interior aside I've always found them to be very tough little things mechanically and very rust proof. Current shiter is coming up to 20 years old and not a spot of rust anywhere unlike my W210 which was covered in the stuff. 

Another plus is the price of parts, so cheap they are almost free,easy to find, easy to fit and a doddle to source. Anyone else have an appreciation of the French stuff or is it just me? Also because of their reputation for imploding after 5,000 miles they also happen to be far cheaper than their equivalent counterparts. 

[FakeConcern]

Me; Citroen C4 VTS (I've had three of them ), Citroen XM V6

Mrs Concern; Renault Clio Mk1 1.4, Renault Modus 1.6

Daughter No1; Clio Mk2 phase 1 1.2, Pug 207 1.4 VVT

Daughter No2; Clio Mk2 phase 2 1.2 16v

We have liked all of them and generally kept them far too long. I can't say we've had any more problems with them than any other car from any other country including Germany.

[AnnoyingPentium]

I like the principle that any Peugeots with x06 in the model number *or anything that came* before is the best about. I'll make exceptions for the Peugeot 107 and 309, however.

*edited

[tooSavvy]

The French? .... Always there when they need you!

#WW1 veteran (... allegedly)

🤐

[Shite Ron]

For the first 33 years I was driving I never owned a French car and admit I always thought they were a bit rubbish, although I did always admired Citroen for being different and particularly admired the CX for it’s quirky features but would not have one as my main car due to them being more complex and also they are front wheel drive.I finally bought a CX in 2020 but it is going to be a while before it is roadworthy. I have also only recently bought a German car and am impressed by my S210 Mercedes but would not consider a car from VAG group. I have just ordered a new company car and it is a C5X Citroen, I will get to experience a Citroen as a daily driver without worrying about maintaining it. Even though it is not as interesting as a CX it is quite interesting for a new car and I am actually looking forward to getting it. I suspect it may be a few months wait as the dealer told me their demo does not come until May.

[Jazoli]

I've had a few, mainly Peugeots

'94 306 Dturbo, bought nearly new, fantastic car no issues

'95 405 1.6 petrol, it was a banger at 400 quid

'02 306 Gti-16, again great no issues

'02 306 2.0 XSI LHD, great, no issues

'02 306 Cab 1.6 LHD, issues with roof, cracked exhaust manifold (x2)

'07 307CC 2.0HDI, clutch and dmf, 2 x com2000 units.

'07 207 1.4, abs pump then HGF, rubbish

'07 207 1.4, HGF

'09 308CC 1.6 petrol, lots of niggling faults, its now at the point where it needs about a grand spending on it (steering rack, timing chain) plus all the consumables such as brakes and tyres need replacing, I've just done 2 x abs sensor, an aux belt and tensioner, VVT soleniod and sensors and other stuff I can't remember in the last month or so.

Moral of the story, I won't be buying another 308 or 207, I like the look of the 508 but the choice is realistically only diesel so I won't be having one of them, I also like the RCZ but as its based on a 308 there's no fucking chance, the 306's I had were pretty much fantastic and were the top of their class in the day, it was a revelation coming from a 1.8TD mk5 Escort into a 306 Dturbo.

I also had a ZX 1.9td as a work car which was good, and a ZX Volcane 16V, which was crap.

Never owned a Renault. Oh yes I did, a Mk1 Megane cab, it was utter shit.

I also drive a lot of 2016-on 308 pool cars for work, they all have electrical issues and stupid touchscreens controlling basic functions like the heating controls, of the three I have driven in the last fortnight 2 have non functioning screens, which makes them unusable, plus they have the stupid small steering wheel that either covers the dials or is in your lap, who the fuck signed that one off?

On that basis I wouldn't have a modern Peugeot at all.

[MisterH]

17 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

Me; Citroen C4 VTS (I've had three of them ), Citroen XM V6

Mrs Concern; Renault Clio Mk1 1.4, Renault Modus 1.6

Daughter No1; Clio Mk2 phase 1 1.2, Pug 207 1.4 VVT

Daughter No2; Clio Mk2 phase 2 1.2 16v

We have liked all of them and generally kept them far too long. I can't say we've had any more problems with them than any other car from any other country including Germany.

Ah yes the C4 VTS, that is high on my Modern Classic want list, what are they like? 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The most recent French car we owned was an end of run 306 estate hdi. It was a Meridian edition with really comfortable half-leather and plenty of toys on board to get them sold. Loads of decent flat storage space, good handling, and almost perfect ergonomics as most PSA were at that point. I guess it would have been around fifteen years old at the time so it was no spring chicken. It was only ever meant to be a cheap stopgap while my fiancée sourced something newer and less leggy- the rear beam was pretty creaky and it was prone to going into limp mode if pushed too hard. 

Despite all that, we both missed it when it was sold- it was one of those cars which we didn't expect much from but was actually very capable in many respects. 

I see some loon put it through about five more MOTs after we sold it. They must have also liked the old barge as the fail and advisory lists were pretty lengthy. It was W865OGM for those who wanted to have a nose. 

[chaseracer]

17 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

I like the principle that any Peugeots with x06 in the model number is the best about. I'll make exceptions for the Peugeot 107 and 309, however.

And 205 😎

[grogee]

See my similar thread. 

I agree, no hatred here. Particularly like the long legged nice riding ones. And they do a mean hot hatch too. 

Thread

[Dick Cheeseburger]

To add to our old 306 above, I've owned two mk1 Renault 5s (brilliant little cars apart from the ocean liner handling) a gorgeous diablo red phase 1 Peugeot 306 Dturbo and a 1600 Peugeot 205 GTI. 

French fancies haven't featured heavily on my car list over the last three decades but I have nothing but praise for the few I've owned. I can't stand most Frenchies from the last couple of decades though. Having said that, Peugeot have finally started to use a bit of style once again in their latest generation of designs. Not sure I'd want to buy one though. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 minutes ago, chaseracer said:

And 205 😎

Oh yes, I clearly haven't typed out what my brain thought. Hang on... 😆

Edit: Check now.

[sierraman]

They’re either very good or very shit. Peugeot 308, Laguna 2, Megane 2, all rubbish. Others like Megane 1, 306, 406 were great. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

1 minute ago, sierraman said:

They’re either very good or very shit. Peugeot 308, Laguna 2, Megane 2, all rubbish. Others like Megane 1, 306, 406 were great. 

One extreme to the other really. I think Renault should have stuck with not improving perfection re: the Laguna.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I have only owned 2 and was happy with both. 2007 Renault Kangoo van and 2005 Citroen Xsara estate.  

And I recommended my mother to buy a new Berlingo 11 years ago and apart from an egr valve, this has been very reliable and trouble-free. So I feel that they have an undeserved bad reputation yes they have had their problems but German cars are no better.

[Shedking]

From memory I've probably owned a dozen German cars and about 6 French, the German cars have been far more problematic and far more expensive to fix although they were far more complex machines. 

[DSdriver]

I have had at least one DS on the drive since 1974... nuff said?

[FakeConcern]

35 minutes ago, MisterH said:

Ah yes the C4 VTS, that is high on my Modern Classic want list, what are they like? 

C4 VTS

 

I've had three VTS petrol C4s and loved them all, my daughter still has the last one I owned (previously owned by @Daviemck2006)

My first I wrote off soon after I got it so I bought another one that got written off after a few years at 180000miles and I had it repaired stupidly as it was badly painted so I scrapped it when the gearbox bearing failed (at 197000miles) and bought the one daughter now has.

I don't know how anyone can think they are anything than properly quirky Citroen designs, just look at the body shape for a start, unlike anything else, the Coupe also having the rally car conection and the weird two rear windows with a divider and a spoiler (what?). The hatch has the round silhouette found on many earlier Citroens.

 

 

Move to the interior and as well as the  steering wheel with fixed hub housing all the controls for music, cruise etc there is a strange but clever digital central speedo pod that is always backlit and never bleached out by the sun, nice textures that seem to be inspired by mid century fabrics and swooping Art Deco style door cards. When driving the Coupe at night you soon discover that the split rear window stops that Audi right behind from blinding you in the mirror with it's ten sun power lights (also has self dimming mirror) and you get a SAAB style night mode that blacks all instruments except speedo. Did I mention the (digital) tacho that lights up red on the rev limit which in the VTS is a screaming 7500rpm.

Red tacho also they sound good for a NA four pot...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrC3QpoFZ0h/

 

I much prefered the C4 to my V6 XM and despite the conventional suspension seemed to me more of a proper interesting Citroen than the XM.

I don't think mine were more or less reliable than any others, I believe the 1.4 petrol had a reputation for OMGHGF and the diseasels could give the usual DPF problems and turbo failure if not looked after and serviced on schedule.

 

[Dobloseven]

Seem to recall a thread in a similar vein not so long ago, where we all listed our French cars past and present. Anyway, here we go again. 

1978 Chrysler Alpine 1300, 1984 to 1992

1979 Peugeot 504 Family Estate auto, 1988 to 1996

2002 Renault Master 2.5 diesel minibus, 2004 to 2017

2010 Renault Kangoo 1.5dci MPV, 2011 to 2019

1989 Renault 25 GTS auto, 2021 to present. 

My father owned variously. 1969 Renault 10,1973 Renault 12,1984 Citroën Visa and 1986 Peugeot 309,all bought new. 

Youngest daughter has a 66 reg Peugeot 208 she had new on a Just add fuel scheme and bought when the 3 years were up. Seems to have been a good move with the rise in used car prices. 

Biggest issue was the Kangoo when the engine failed big time at 125k miles, culminating in it being sold as spares or repair. The Master had some expensive issues with the fuel system in its early years which were possibly down to mis diagnosis and later an immobiliser issue. The 504 was the subject of a rolling restoration with a lot of welding and panel replacement finishing with a professional respray. 

[Bren]

Renault 5 GT turbo. Fast but had the structural rigidity of human breath. Working under the bonnet needed hands smaller than a micronaut time traveller ( over 40's will know these).

Xantia. Great car but agricultural.

Laguna 2.0 auto. Great. But not the auto.

What I do find with french cars is they can rust terribly where you can't see it.

Sills, door shuts, and on 306's even the inside of the roof pillars.

 

[MisterH]

9 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

C4 VTS

 

 

 

I've had three VTS petrol C4s and loved them all, my daughter still has the last one I owned (previously owned by @Daviemck2006)

My first I wrote off soon after I got it so I bought another one that got written off after a few years at 180000miles and I had it repaired stupidly as it was badly painted so I scrapped it when the gearbox bearing failed (at 197000miles) and bought the one daughter now has.

I don't know how anyone can think they are anything than properly quirky Citroen designs, just look at the body shape for a start, unlike anything else, the Coupe also having the rally car conection and the weird two rear windows with a divider and a spoiler (what?). The hatch has the round silhouette found on many earlier Citroens.

 

 

 

Move to the interior and as well as the  steering wheel with fixed hub housing all the controls for music, cruise etc there is a strange but clever digital central speedo pod that is always backlit and never bleached out by the sun, nice textures that seem to be inspired by mid century fabrics and swooping Art Deco style door cards. When driving the Coupe at night you soon discover that the split rear window stops that Audi right behind from blinding you in the mirror with it's ten sun power lights (also has self dimming mirror) and you get a SAAB style night mode that blacks all instruments except speedo. Did I mention the (digital) tacho that lights up red on the rev limit which in the VTS is a screaming 7500rpm.

Red tacho also they sound good for a NA four pot...

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrC3QpoFZ0h/

 

 

I much prefered the C4 to my V6 XM and despite the conventional suspension seemed to me more of a proper interesting Citroen than the XM.

I don't think mine were more or less reliable than any others, I believe the 1.4 petrol had a reputation for OMGHGF and the diseasels could give the usual DPF problems and turbo failure if not looked after and serviced on schedule.

 

 

That is fascinating, thank you so much. At some point I will need a sensible modern car, but by that time these will be around 20 years old and still cheap. It is either this or a very early Mk2 Megane 225

But then as they are both worthless pretty much, maybe both 😅

[Jerzy Woking]

Only had three, two Renault Clio diesels and a Citroen AX. My (ex) wife managed to destroy the gearboxes on both the Clios  (not the fault of either car) but I thrashed the AX everywhere, well I had to anyway to make progress. Not one issue.

Never had any more French cars, for no reason other than whatever cheap car I bought, it never happened to be French.

[bub2006]

Had a few French motors. Not too long ago the cheapest thing with mot on was usually a xsara picasso round these parts. Love the picasso to be honest and have had a few. Do everything a car should do with ample space spare. My French car list reads :-

citroen

saxo 1.4 furio

saxo 1.5d sx

xsara 1.4 hatch

xsara picasso 2.0 hdi x4 I think

2x 1.6 8v xsara picasso

1.8 xsara picasso exclusive 

Xantia hatch tdi

xantia estate tdi

c2 1.1

c4  grand picasso. 

Didn't gel with the c4 at all. Electrical issues aplenty that refused to be fixed

Peugeot wise I've had-

406 2.1 td

406 2.0 hdi

307 sw 2.0 hdi

Sure there's one I've forgot here too!

307 was decent,the 2.0hdi in the 406 was the 90bhp model and felt rather underpowered. 

Had a few renaults,mk1 clio auto 1.4 that my wife briefly had. She also had a lovely mk1 scenic Monaco. Leather,twin roofs and all the toys available at the time. I've had a1.4 alize scenic mk1 and a 1.6 dynamique mk1. Preferred the xsara picasso over the scenic,the petrol models weren't great and really low geared. Over 3k in top in the 1.6. Sold the 1.6 to my sister after owning it for a week. Told her it needed a service and no history of cambelt either. She never spent a penny on it bar an mot for nearly 4 years. She finally killed it when the ignition barrel failed and she didn't notice so drove it with starter engaged till starter burnt and ignition shorted out. Had it recovered to my friends garage and the cambelt was pretty much threads too!

Edit,

After reading next post,I forgot a couple! 

Dw8 c15

Dw8 berlingo van

1.6 16v bingo multispace. 

 

[EyesWeldedShut]

I had cheapskate Renault 5 Turbo - 1.7 GTX, torque steer in the wet was awful and hot starting was bad - comfy car tho'. 

Otherwise.... Berlingo, BX, Laguna, Safrane, 206, C15 Van, Master Van now Pug Boxer (built in Italy).

Two 'died' irrevocably. C15 blew up two engines in 64,000 miles. 206 had terminal fuel troubles.

They were mostly 'OK' - nothing too bad, nothing too special.

C4 VTS sounds fun 😏 Top picture is you checking out the new Tesla charging facility?

[lexi]

I liked them really. ZX ,Xantia V6, Xud versions , C5s and Vel Satis. Got my moneys worth and more from them all.

  That last C5 with the dreaded 1.6hdi in estate version was super. I was happy with that with tons of room , towcar and 54mpg.  Wife bought me a Volvo that needs kept clean and cared for..........feckin' nuisance.

 

[Missy Charm]

I had a Xantia diesel years ago.  It looked fab and had obviously been looked after but it was a dreadful car.  The clever suspension failed, the clutch cable retaining clip snapped, the heater never really worked, the cooling system sprang leaks, the tail lights in the tailgate fell out, the list goes on.  

I've also had a Xsara diesel coupe, which worked most of the time.  Unfortunately the sensor in the driver's side door that told the car's electronics whether the door was open or closed was dodgy.  That resulted in all sorts of electrical faults from the alarm going off by itself to the central locking deciding to stop working to the headlights on buzzer sounding constantly.  For better or worse I crashed the thing a couple of weeks after buying it and wasn't too sorry to see it go off to the scrapyard.  Handling wise the car was superb, but one couldn't go so far as to say that it drove well: the steering was too light and floaty, the gearchange was poor and the clutch on the jerky side.  

The only experience of French cars I've had since is a Renault Clio hire car.  It was competent, but I can't remember anything about it at all!

[cort1977]

1 hour ago, Shedking said:

Anyone else have an appreciation of the French stuff or is it just me? 

Think you're preaching the choir on here.

I love French cars although only really had a 205 for a little while.  Would love a big Citroen: C6, XM, CX, DS or SM - all very acceptable!  Or small and French - Twingo, Clio or 106 are all fantastic cars.

I find people who run down French cars are the type of 'enthusiasts' who are really only in to the perceived status of their Teutonic chariot with no real appreciation for the engineering of a car.

[Cento16v]

Ive had a few!

Xantia 1.8 16v (quicker than a Saxo VTR!)

2 x Saxo VTR/S

D9 406 V6 Manual

308 Facelift

3008 Facelift (Was my Dads)

Xantia Activa

My dad has had (from what i remember!)

Xantia Activa

406 D8 2.0 16v LX S

406 D9 2.2 16v SRI

C5 Facelift 2.2 Twin Turbo VTR+

407 2.2 16v SE

308 1.4 16v 3dr(fuck knows what happened there)

307 1.6 16v Sport

308 1.6 VTI Active

3008 1.6 VTI Active

And now he has new 1.3 Renault Captur Dynamique S? 

I love french cars, id swap my XF for a pristine Xantia Activa and a decent C6 tommorow if i could.

I think I'll always have a french car and a Volvo in my life.

I wish id had a V6 407, they really handle well do 407s, i had a few goes in my dad's 407 when it had about 17k miles on it, and it was leagues ahead of the 406, it had great steering feel, and had a lot of mechanical grip as well, no LOO like in the 406 though, and it didnt ride as well.

Id quite fancy a 508 PSE in a few years.

 

 

[sutty2006]

The reason PH hate french cars is exactly why this forum exists. Someone’s gotta love em, right? 

[EyesWeldedShut]

9 minutes ago, Cento16v said:

Id quite fancy a 508 PSE in a few years.

RCZ? Non?