Doing your own spanner work

[Six-cylinder]

  On 30/01/2022 at 11:28, High Jetter said:

 From my first Hillman Imp Californinan. 

 Am itching to get a project to work on but time and space are against it. One regret is never learning how to weld though.

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My first car was also a Hillman Imp Californian.

Come to the FoD and work on projects. This year we want to get the Saab 95 and Toledo running and road worthy. If you see something of ours that you are itching to see running and willing to volunteer on, just let us know and we will organise it.

When we starting inviting shiters I was surprised how many wanted to work on cars and not just drink tea, we also have 2 wheel projects, and equipment projects for you entertainment. 

[High Jetter]

  On 30/01/2022 at 11:48, Six-cylinder said:

Come to the FoD and work on projects.

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Thanks, I'd love to - and I do know a bit about about Toledo's and their ilk, but probably nowhere hear most attendees. Unfortunately the FOD is at least a 5-hour round trip, and life is just too busy at the moment.

[Spurious]

  On 30/01/2022 at 10:34, sutty2006 said:

BEST ADVISE EVER. 

 

my rusty discovery 1 is MOTd in January, which I hate. Because I’m usually welding to wet rust. Which is miserable. Not so bad if I can get it in the workshop at work but if not, it’s reeeaaaal miserable. I keep aiming to have it re-MOTd in summer, but it never happens. 

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I keep saying this. Usually what happens is the MOT lapses and it gets done a month or two later. 

The Audis MOT was mid January and I left it off the road for two months when we'd all that cold weather last year. Seemed like a good idea at the time as the road was white with salt. MOTd it end of March last year, which is a more tolerable time for tinkering; it's a bit warmer and the evenings are longer too. I might do the same this year, leave it for a couple of weeks and into April. 

It's demoralising tinkering in near zero temps, everything is harder in the cold.  

 

[Shedking]

Another aspect of running a shitter for a daily is that you don't want to keep forking out 2,3 £400 a time to a garage for a car that cost less than £500, it makes no economic sense whatsoever. I would encourage anybody to educate themselves even if it just means being able to do a complete service comprising oil and filter, air filter, fuel filter and spark plugs, it's really not as difficult as mechanics and dealers would have you believe as it's their main source of income, a lot of money that they charge for an easy job especially main stealers. 

My son has a Dacia, 2014 plate, took it to a supposedly reputable garage for the stamp in the book, cost him £170, they didn't even change the oil filter or air filter! absolute shysters, its a 3 cylinder engine so for 3 litres of semi synthetic goop he paid a fortune,  if he wanted the 3 spark plugs changing that will be another £60 sir, would have cost him £6 and at the most half an hour to do them himself, that's if they didn't clean the old ones and stick them back in. 

Time and again I have friends moaning because they are beholden to main dealers who charge ridiculous amounts for basic servicing but they feel obliged to keep on with them even after the warranty has run out because they run more expensive stuff and feel that it will affect future resale value to not have a fully stamped up service book. Personally I don't think the stamp is worth the ink. I know there are exceptions and some garages live and die by their reputation but I want to know that it's been done properly and the only way that I can ensure that is to do it myself. 

 

[sutty2006]

  On 30/01/2022 at 12:54, Spurious said:

I keep saying this. Usually what happens is the MOT lapses and it gets done a month or two later. 

The Audis MOT was mid January and I left it off the road for two months when we'd all that cold weather last year. Seemed like a good idea at the time as the road was white with salt. MOTd it end of March last year, which is a more tolerable time for tinkering; it's a bit warmer and the evenings are longer too. I might do the same this year, leave it for a couple of weeks and into April. 

It's demoralising tinkering in near zero temps, everything is harder in the cold.  

 

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Fairly certain my discovery had a summer test once upon a time but over the years and all the lapsed MOTs it ended up a January test lol 

[Spurious]

  On 30/01/2022 at 13:42, sutty2006 said:

Fairly certain my discovery had a summer test once upon a time but over the years and all the lapsed MOTs it ended up a January test lol 

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Cirlce of life, you may as well wait it out, March isn't too far off 🙃

[Toe]

2 of the comments here are never more true, working on cars you don't actually need for the next day and MoT in the summer, so much more enjoyable and relaxing with just these 2 points.

None of my family have done anything really serious like a timing belt (dad never had licence and brother rebuilt a Matchless motorcycle but even servicing now he gets a garage to do it) and for me it's half and half of saving money so I can afford to run more than 1 car and enjoyment/getting it done properly. This all started with getting a recon rear brake calliper that arrived with it's adjuster screw badly Helicoiled and I thought I can do a better job than this and that was over 15 years ago.

10 years ago I thought nothing of living in a 1st floor flat and lugging a massive toolbox down the stairs on Christmas day when it was snowing, now, no chance, got a house and can get the car within 10feet of the back door and still won't do it but am still buying tools - I've got the mindset that the cost of getting it done by somewhere else is the cost of the tool and with now having 4 cars it makes sense as I should get more than 1 use out of a special tool, an electric impact gun for crank pulley bolts is an example but I'm not crazy, luckily I have a garage I've been going to for 20 years who service as a sideline their main business is rebuilding engines and got quite friendly with them, even  when they moved I followed them, still 17 miles away though in the middle of no-where. They also let me get parts which I later learnt isn't that common now either though they do get the parts in anyway just in case, it's no skin off their nose as its all sale or return anyway.

[grogee]

I try and do everything myself, but I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't. 

To me, it's a bit like cooking. I like cooking, slowly, at my own pace and to my own rules. But I wouldn't want to do it under time pressure with grumpy customers. 

Same with mechanicing. I'm not fast, and often have to learn something from first principles to get a job done. But I find it interesting and educational and I've always liked taking stuff to bits. 

I'm an automotive engineer (with a degree) but learned more working in a garage than from 3 years BEng in Coventry. The degree is just a ticket to decent jobs. 

To me, my time is 'cheap' and I don't mind faffing about to get a job done. I do have the luxury of a garage and big drive which helps a lot. Also 3 cars in the Grogee household so if one is out of action I still have wheels to get where I need to be. 

The situation would be much different if I had one car, no drive and no garage. Then things are a lot harder. I totally get why people farm out their work in that scenario. 

Often the equation for me goes like this: OK, job A needs doing. Garage wants £300+VAT. I can get the special tool I need for £60, and the parts for £40. Yes it'll take me longer but I still win AND I've now got the tool for me or anyone else that needs it in the future. 

There's also the fact that I've not found a garage who would do it with the same level of care. I'm not saying I'm super mechanic, but if you have things apart and do touching up/rustproofing as you go along that's something a garage wouldn't have time to do. 

This morning I was doing some work to my Saab, a lot of it is painting and stuff that a garage just wouldn't bother with. For me it's future-proofing, and preventative maintenance that should help it through next MoT. 

 

[Toe]

  On 29/01/2022 at 20:09, dollywobbler said:

I'm not an engineer and I'm increasingly getting fed up with my cack hands and am farming more and more stuff out, which is expensive and not without stress.

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I'm thinking much of that is trying to do 2 things at once - present an interesting film piece and do the work, even though I enjoy my brother coming round to see me I resent it when I'm doing something to a car as it destroys my concentration and even if it doesn't I never get it finished. You took out the engine out of the Fox and put one back which is beyond me so you're able but being a bloke you can't multi-task 😄

[sierraman]

I think to become a mechanic now you’ve got to want to do it, the pay seriously lags behind pretty much every other trade, unless you are lucky or own the place. Obviously if you were working in a main dealers or a proper set up you’ve the proper facilities and the right gear, these working out of the ‘under the arches type’ places like I’ve used in the past sound dreadful.

You can probably for that reason see why they only want simple jobs on recentish cars, they emphatically don’t want 2005 Focus with collapsed rear suspension or a Vectra diesel that won’t run right, everyone knows it’s going to be a ball ache job that is, to sort out properly, going to be more than the owner can a) afford and b) see the value in spending. It’s not a job for old men either, in this day and age it’s not likely you’d want to hack being laid under Transits 45 hour a week until you were 70. 

I get therefore why they want simple relatively affordable jobs. Less hassle.

No fucking help to me though... 🤣

[bunglebus]

  On 30/01/2022 at 09:33, MJK 24 said:

MOT them in the summer

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Absolutely. Passat is June but the Lupo is due right at the end of Dec as that's when we bought it with no MoT. I dread something needing doing at that time. 

I also spread out the insurance and tax on the Passat by paying monthly for a quarter then buying a year's worth, otherwise one month gets very expensive. Need to do the same for the Lupo now

[Daviemck2006]

  On 30/01/2022 at 09:45, AnnoyingPentium said:

I agree. I've done a lot of jobs to the Fabia with help from my Granda. I got a local garage to undertake the wheel bearing work though.
My Granda's 2008 Punto is one of the latter examples as it needed a subframe, sump, and some other bits. MOT fail and a lot of advisories, probably now a tin of beans or something. Plus the wings were beginning to rot too. 12 years in the South West of Scotland really hit it hard.

12 years of being a fiat was probably worse

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

[AnnoyingPentium]

  On 30/01/2022 at 14:57, Daviemck2006 said:

12 years of being a fiat was probably worse

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The accountant (my Granny) would probably argue the same. Ate window regs and coil springs like nobody's business. 😆

[Liggle]

I'll do all servicing, brakes and minor repairs on our older stuff

Moderns go to the main dealer and/or a specialist depending on the car, usually to keep warranty in tact and the service book up to date, this will taper off as they get older though 

[Ohdearme]

  On 29/01/2022 at 16:30, Shedking said:

My dad was an engineer. When I first started driving he drilled it into me to always do my own servicing and repairs as garages can't be trusted. He walked me through the easy jobs like servicing, brakes etc later moving on to more complicated jobs. So for the last 40 odd years I've done all my own spanner work and built up a considerable tool chest, it's probably saved me a fortune. I try to buy simple shitters, petrol engined with not much to go wrong and generally easy to work on and fix and cheap plentiful parts. 

That means mainstream shitters that were built in their millions so that scrap yards and flea bay are full of spares. Problem is that as I get nearer the big 60 and being in the fortunate position of money not being that much of a problem (I run shitters out of choice not necessity) I'm starting to get less inclined to bother. I don't get a lot of spare time with work and grandkids but I also hate the idea of paying someone to do something probably to a worse standard than me. 

Do any of you sheddists do your own spanner work or use a garage that you trust ? I've not found one near me that I want to send my car to, I wouldn't take a wheel barrow to most of them

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I liked to have a go at the basics, brakes bulbs, fluids but with kids and work and stuff, I. Just don’t have the motivation to do it myself.

case in point, the espace has a sticking rear caliper and it needs a strip/rebuild (or replacing). It isn’t a massive job and I was going to tackle the repair attempt last weekend but a look out of the frosty window and I just phoned the garage, I’ve no heated garage to work in and limited time to faff with it. 
 

Repairs in summer are much easier to face but failures in winter are cash for the garage. Have found a good Renault Indy (Owner drives an Avantime, when it works) so no concerns sending it there.

[dozeydustman]

  On 30/01/2022 at 14:33, bunglebus said:

Absolutely. Passat is June but the Lupo is due right at the end of Dec as that's when we bought it with no MoT. I dread something needing doing at that time. 

I also spread out the insurance and tax on the Passat by paying monthly for a quarter then buying a year's worth, otherwise one month gets very expensive. Need to do the same for the Lupo now

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An alternative would be MoT both cars a little earlier, say April and August respectively. Not necessarily ideal wallet-wise as less time between MoTs but saves scrabbling underneath on a wet December weekend.

[MrBD]

Everything I've done over the years I've done myself. Main reason being in my experience, everything is half assed if you don't do it yourself or take it to a place that charges more than I make in a day to even look at the car.

So far I've only been to a garage twice, first time because I had the local mechanic bring the car on his lorry 30 miles from the MOT centre, so I didnt begrudge him the job of replacing the brake line that blew (involved dropping the fuel tank, shitty job) He did an "ok" job, he only charged £120 for the whole lot which I thought was fair.

Next I had an exhaust repair at a place quite far away from me that I had heard good things about. Guy who did the exhaust did another "ok" job at best, using a ton of putty to "fix" a leaky joint, instead of actually fixing it like I had asked.

Neither were serious issues but just another confirmation to myself of the quality of work generally.

 

[grogee]

  On 29/01/2022 at 20:18, NorthernMonkey said:

 

The reason I’d want £300 to remove a gearbox and replace the clutch kit is I wouldn’t be using a £40 clutch kit from ECP.

By the way, I hope to god that random bolt that you used to repair your brake servo has the correct tensile strength and doesn’t one day fail rendering your braking system ineffective when you most need it…. 🙄

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This sort of hysterical bullshit is what puts people off from having a go, learning something and saving money in the process. 

We all know that the same three or four factories produce clutch kits and put them in boxes for a dozen brands. So if you're buying ECP's cheapest it's probably the same as four other brands. I've only had bother with Comline parts, and no-name Chinese parts which I now avoid. Everything else has been fine for the shiters I fix up. 

As for the bolt? I'd have done the same. Please don't think Peugeot's pin solution is specially hardened steel. It's not, it was the cheapest solution and/or the most expedient for factory assembly. 

If our man had repaired the brake link with a hairpin or rusty nail, your concern might be justified. I'd imagine the bolt was a similar diameter to the pin and a damn sight easier to fit. 

I hate this elitist bullshit, there is so much misinformation spread about cars. Rein it in. 

[Shedking]

  On 30/01/2022 at 17:02, grogee said:

This sort of hysterical bullshit is what puts people off from having a go, learning something and saving money in the process. 

We all know that the same three or four factories produce clutch kits and put them in boxes for a dozen brands. So if you're buying ECP's cheapest it's probably the same as four other brands. I've only had bother with Comline parts, and no-name Chinese parts which I now avoid. Everything else has been fine for the shiters I fix up. 

As for the bolt? I'd have done the same. Please don't think Peugeot's pin solution is specially hardened steel. It's not, it was the cheapest solution and/or the most expedient for factory assembly. 

If our man had repaired the brake link with a hairpin or rusty nail, your concern might be justified. I'd imagine the bolt was a similar diameter to the pin and a damn sight easier to fit. 

I hate this elitist bullshit, there is so much misinformation spread about cars. Rein it in. 

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Thing is I'm not a bodger.  If I thought for a second that using a bolt would have put me or my family in any danger then I wouldn't have done it. If I have to mess with the servo again it's now a simple job. As for the hysterics about the clutch, you just have to chuckle and move on, I know what I'm doing after 40 odd years just as much as he thinks he knows what he's talking about.  That's the problem, would be proffesionals making things sound harder or more dangerous than they actually are, it puts people off trying in the first place, ooooh don't touch an oil filter, what if you don't put it back on properly, don't mess with spark plugs, if you change your brake pads you will certainly die. 

[NorthernMonkey]

  On 30/01/2022 at 17:02, grogee said:

This sort of hysterical bullshit is what puts people off from having a go, learning something and saving money in the process. 

We all know that the same three or four factories produce clutch kits and put them in boxes for a dozen brands. So if you're buying ECP's cheapest it's probably the same as four other brands. I've only had bother with Comline parts, and no-name Chinese parts which I now avoid. Everything else has been fine for the shiters I fix up. 

As for the bolt? I'd have done the same. Please don't think Peugeot's pin solution is specially hardened steel. It's not, it was the cheapest solution and/or the most expedient for factory assembly. 

If our man had repaired the brake link with a hairpin or rusty nail, your concern might be justified. I'd imagine the bolt was a similar diameter to the pin and a damn sight easier to fit. 

I hate this elitist bullshit, there is so much misinformation spread about cars. Rein it in. 

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Elitist bullshit? Really?

Trust me, ECPs cheapest Transmech clutches that sell for £40 are NOT made by, or to the same standards, as those from LUK or other reputable OE suppliers etc.

As for replacing a part of the linkage between the brake master cylinder and the pedal with a bloody random bolt ‘that looks the same size but goes in easier’ ?

If you really think that is the correct way to maintain your own vehicle, I’d strongly suggest you ‘rein it in’ as you so helpfully suggest.

[HillmanImp]

I don't do as much anymore. I don't have room in the garage, the driveway is narrow, the weather is always terrible here, I can't leave Imp Jr with Mrs Imp for long as she gets bored with him and just leaves him watching youtube, more modern cars scare and annoy me, they guy across the road used to own his own garage and probably laughs at my idiotic and probably dangerous decisions when tinkering... and probably a dozen other excuses. 

The main one is being outside though. It sooo windy up here or damp compared to the bottom of the hill. If I had a big enough garage I'd do loads more. Plus I'd be able to leave stuff half done overnight or continue when it was dark or started pissing down, instead of spending 20mins packing everything away if I don't finish something. 

[sierraman]

  On 30/01/2022 at 17:02, grogee said:

This sort of hysterical bullshit is what puts people off from having a go, learning something and saving money in the process. 

We all know that the same three or four factories produce clutch kits and put them in boxes for a dozen brands. So if you're buying ECP's cheapest it's probably the same as four other brands. I've only had bother with Comline parts, and no-name Chinese parts which I now avoid. Everything else has been fine for the shiters I fix up. 

As for the bolt? I'd have done the same. Please don't think Peugeot's pin solution is specially hardened steel. It's not, it was the cheapest solution and/or the most expedient for factory assembly. 

If our man had repaired the brake link with a hairpin or rusty nail, your concern might be justified. I'd imagine the bolt was a similar diameter to the pin and a damn sight easier to fit. 

I hate this elitist bullshit, there is so much misinformation spread about cars. Rein it in. 

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The only clutches I’d give time of day would be LUK, Sachs, Valeo etc, a £40 Transmech clutch is a waste of time, a professional wouldn’t fit such a clutch as they’d be refitting enough of them to be losing money. A clutch is a big enough job to warrant fitting good quality parts.

[Spurious]

I've had good luck with Exedy clutches, they're made in Japan. Fitted to two of my Jimnys when needed. Aisin are owned by Toyota so they can't be half bad either I would have thought... 

Exedy also has brilliant fitting instructions 😁

[Rustybullethole]

No mechanical training here just an ingrained instinct to pay no other for what I can do myself. If I’ve never done it before it’s a learning process which is good in itself. Always a sense of achievement keeping and old crock going trick is to know when enough is enough. Have owned some right old shite so don’t think there’s an old car job that’s not been jobbed over the years. My transit shat the gearbox last year (one cog went through the casing) farmed that out to a mate which and very glad I did as he done in a day what would take me a month of weekends. He had a box minus third made a good one out of the two chucked in the clutch I had waiting as it had been slipping a while and replaced the wheel bearings at the front whilst apart, had been carting them about for months too. My mrs said it showed great maturity.

Had quick fit bodge an exhaust when I broke my back and another mate do a clutch when I chopped my hand up. 
other than that all service jobs, engine swaps, head gaskets, welding and whatever else been by my own hand. I have trust issues with garages, don’t even loose site of my shite at mot time.

[NorthernMonkey]

Exedy are fine…as you say, they’re OE on a lot of Jap stuff, especially grey imports

[sierraman]

One job I can’t fucking stand... stretch belts. In so far as much I’m investing in the right tool, unless you’ve got Steve Austin’s wrists it’s tricky getting them over on a screwdriver, especially on a double pulley job. 

[lanciamatt]

I do everything myself . But I'm a mechanic by trade , so sometimes I neglect my own cars as can't be bothered having been doing it all day on other people's cars. 

[NorthernMonkey]

  On 30/01/2022 at 18:03, sierraman said:

One job I can’t fucking stand... stretch belts. In so far as much I’m investing in the right tool, unless you’ve got Steve Austin’s wrists it’s tricky getting them over on a screwdriver, especially on a double pulley job. 

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Yep, whichever t**t came up with that idea really does need a good shoeing.

My other favourite is bleeding the fuel system after changing a diesel filter on a Ford.

Oh yes, and anything around the suspension, rear especially, on your average mid noughties Focus that looks like it’s been recently recovered from a river bed.

[Shedking]

  On 30/01/2022 at 17:41, NorthernMonkey said:

Yep, fine, carry on.

14 years at JLR in the midlands looking after a fleet of test mules and as long again running an independent workshop but whatever…you obviously know best.

By the way, good luck with your £2.00 spark plugs for your lads Dacia. The cheapest correct ones available from the largest trade suppliers are £14.40 each plus VAT so £60 fitted for three seems pretty fair to me.

Don’t get me wrong…there are plenty of rogues in the trade, especially in the main dealer network, but by no means are we all the same. If you’re competent, which I’m sure you are, crack on with your own repairs but don’t try to justify replacing a part of your braking system with a random bolt of ‘about the same size and appearance’ as good working practice.

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In 40 odd years of "bodging " I've never come a cropper or had to redo any job so to save the thread descending into an argument I will bow in deference to your superiority and move on.

[Rustybullethole]

  On 30/01/2022 at 18:05, lanciamatt said:

I do everything myself . But I'm a mechanic by trade , so sometimes I neglect my own cars as can't be bothered having been doing it all day on other people's cars. 

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Once got told that if you say you’re a mechanic then insurance is higher didn’t get it till they told me that reason. My mates an engineer by the way.. defo don’t fix cars haha