Highway Code changes 29/01/22 - what do you think about it?

[High Jetter]

49 minutes ago, carburettor said:

part club.

What's that?

[Dave_Q]

What really gets me is how very willing humans are to believe that all the problems are caused by some "other" group of people, immigrants, the EU, cyclists, etc etc.

Lycra clad wankers and car clad wankers shouldn't be enemies, the real enemy is the people responsible for just about zero investment in any usable transport infrastructure in living memory.

I've actually been out tonight and part of the route was CS1 - from the name I was expecting big things as this is claiming to be a Cycle Superhighway from Bradford to Leeds.

It. Was. Shite. The best way I can think to describe it was like they rang 12 different councils and asked for their unwanted cycle paths and stuck them in place to more or less cover the route. Some bits are green. Some bits are not. Some bits are protected from the road by a kerb. Some bits are just white lines on the pavement. In some places it just disappears without warning. There are some signs. But not loads. Even though I had the route on a sat-nav and am not particularly stupid, I found myself either off the route or on the wrong side of the road at least 3 times.

The absolute best bit, was coming into armley, slight uphill stretch. There are some roadworks, not sure if they are related to the cycle lane but they were blocking it. The lane just ended with a sign saying to merge into the single lane of fairly heavy traffic. Safety was taken care of, and this is good, by a sign, that said Do Not Overtake Cyclists. I'm sure that works.

Please don't blame other humans on bicycles for being on the road, actually most of them would probably rather not be sharing with cars. But the alternative is often worse. Or slower. Or there isn't one.

[FakeConcern]

Despite being a humerous take on things, the Dr Hutch column in Cycling Weekly raises some interesting points about the Highway Code and the reaction to it...

 

Dr Hutch http://www.michaelhutchinson.co.uk/about---contact.html

He also won the Brompton folding bike World Championships!

[richardmorris]

12 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

Despite being a humerous take on things, the Dr Hutch column in Cycling Weekly raises some interesting points about the Highway Code and the reaction to it...

 

Dr Hutch http://www.michaelhutchinson.co.uk/about---contact.html

He also won the Brompton folding bike World Championships!

His articles about trying to sneak team GB tech clothing info ( wibbly bits on suits) and the boardman lotus Frankenstein bike are fun.

[taxi paul]

When riding my little fold up bike I wear a nice bright mustard yellow jacket , £4.00 charity shop bargain. However I only ride on cycle paths void of traffic but with pedestrians. I am not going on a road,  Probably get killed. Has for pedestrians. I pick my daughter up from school every day and the drive out the school down the road. This is done at around 10 mph till I come to a stop at the junction. I do this because teenagers have an amazing ability to just wander across the road blissfully unaware that a car is bigger and heavier than them. I can't remember the last time I encountered a horse. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

21 minutes ago, taxi paul said:

I can't remember the last time I encountered a horse. 

Only ever encountered one which was during a driving lesson for me. And I live rurally too!

[richardmorris]

14 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

Only ever encountered one which was during a driving lesson for me. And I live rurally too!

Daily incidence here in Surrey.

[richardmorris]

58 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Daily incidence here in Surrey.

Probably because I pass at least half a dozen stables and a riding school on the way to work!

[treehugger]

Poxy EU horses. 

[Andrew353w]

On 1/31/2022 at 6:33 PM, bunglebus said:

Don't know if this belongs here or in the standards of driving thread - today a woman on a bicycle pulled straight out of a side road in front of my son in law, and when he asked her why she said under the new rules she had right of way. There are going to be people getting hurt in the next few months thinking they have carte blanche

Isn't this a bit like the "priorite à droit" system the French had until the late 1960s? ANY car was allowed to whizz out of a side road with impunity onto a main road, providing it was joining from the right. Following an increase in car ownership and usage (and, I suspect, fatalities!) the rule was rescinded.......

Sorry-random thought: where do the "e-scooters" that whizz along the pavements fit into the "hierarchy of traffic"?

[Metal Guru]

1 hour ago, Andrew353w said:

Isn't this a bit like the "priorite à droit" system the French had until the late 1960s? ANY car was allowed to whizz out of a side road with impunity onto a main road, providing it was joining from the right. Following an increase in car ownership and usage (and, I suspect, fatalities!) the rule was rescinded.......

Sorry-random thought: where do the "e-scooters" that whizz along the pavements fit into the "hierarchy of traffic"?

The new rules do not give any group the right to ignore traffic signs and signals. However this has not been made clear and obviously there should have been more publicity to inform people properly, instead of the hearsay and Chinese whispers we have at the moment. You would have thought the government might have taken peoples safety a bit more seriously , oh wait ……….

[bangernomics]

First paragraph, just lol.  It’s not about rights it’s about safety and common sense. Who mentioned that taxing and registration is unenforceable?
Then other countries have done it, but failed. 
If the Government were to make it law that these people were forced to take a proficiency test the registration could be enforced at that point. The Insurance and any nominal taxation to maintain the cycle lanes would mean that, with the correct hi-vis clothing and non dazzling lighting both cycles and those electric scooters could all be registered and accountable. Let’s face it, even a 10 year old VW up at 40 mph could kill someone. If cyclists ride on cycle lanes (when there are any) that eliminates the risk. At 15 mph a cyclist is unlikely to kill someone.
 

Have you ever ridden in a cycle lane that’s full of crap, holes, raised or dropped ironwork?

I tend to stay as in the lane as much as possible but the routes I take I know where the bad bits are and just move out well in advance. The road is shared.

[wuvvum]

6 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

Isn't this a bit like the "priorite à droit" system the French had until the late 1960s? 

Priorité à droite is still the default rule in France.  It's just that most junctions now have traffic lights, Give Way signs or roundabouts which override that rule.  At a junction with no indications to the contrary, traffic coming from the right still has priority.

[Andrew353w]

1 hour ago, wuvvum said:

Priorité à droite is still the default rule in France.  It's just that most junctions now have traffic lights, Give Way signs or roundabouts which override that rule.  At a junction with no indications to the contrary, traffic coming from the right still has priority.

I stand corrected! I must admit I had thought the French had ditched that one! 

[jakebullet]

Well Leeds is now even more fucking insane. Mrs's flat is across the road from the college near enough. You can watch out the window as they all just stroll across the road whenever they feel like it, as they've got right of way now innit? Despite it not being a junction, and there being a crossing they could use.

We went to the chip oyle, and there's this junction. A group decided to walk the red line in the dark, fuck the traffic.

 

The cyclist* problem hasn't changed, as it's pretty much impossible to be a bigger arsehole. It's mostly deliverpoo wankers who have no lights, and are taking the straightest line between 2 points on a map on electric bikes. Pavements / red lights / one way streets etc all don't exist, just got to get there as fast as possible. I get the feeling half of them have been banned from mopeds, but you can't get banned from a push bike can you? 

[willswitchengage]

9 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

Sorry-random thought: where do the "e-scooters" that whizz along the pavements fit into the "hierarchy of traffic"?

They seem to be resented by most but as an easy solution to urban transport, they're great. Obviously we're all lazy and CBA to walk anywhere anymore so if they get people out of cars and whizzing around instead, I'm all for that. Instead of the local cops childishly impounding them all why now update the HWC with some sensible rules for their use, and the same for mobility scooters which seem to suffer from the same issue of being in a legal grey area.

 

[Frogchod]

3 hours ago, wuvvum said:

Priorité à droite is still the default rule in France.  It's just that most junctions now have traffic lights, Give Way signs or roundabouts which override that rule.  At a junction with no indications to the contrary, traffic coming from the right still has priority.

Yes, Pod is still the default. 

Around here in Calvados it is being phased out. Doesn't stop 80 year old Jaque in his sans permits taking the priority despite the signage. 

Probably be another 30yrs before Pod is gone 🙄

[Dave_Q]

2 hours ago, jakebullet said:

Well Leeds is now even more fucking insane. Mrs's flat is across the road from the college near enough. You can watch out the window as they all just stroll across the road whenever they feel like it, as they've got right of way now innit? Despite it not being a junction, and there being a crossing they could use.

We went to the chip oyle, and there's this junction. A group decided to walk the red line in the dark, fuck the traffic.

 

The cyclist* problem hasn't changed, as it's pretty much impossible to be a bigger arsehole. It's mostly deliverpoo wankers who have no lights, and are taking the straightest line between 2 points on a map on electric bikes. Pavements / red lights / one way streets etc all don't exist, just got to get there as fast as possible. I get the feeling half of them have been banned from mopeds, but you can't get banned from a push bike can you? 

Jake, just look at your picture man.

That junction is a 2 acre expanse of tarmac dedicated to the car. Cyclists get a green strip to the front of the queue whereby no doubt an angry dice seller in a shonky discovery will force past them at the first opportunity whether there is space or not.

Pedestrians? Haha, fuck em. I assume there will be a fair amount of non-drivers in them tower blocks, and maybe some of the shops they want to go to are on the left of the picture? I'm guessing but I reckon it's about 5-10 minutes to actually press all the buttons and get across in the way you are meant to. What would you do?

This junction is crying out for some sort of bridge, underpass etc so the cycle and foot traffic doesn't have to play with the cars.

Can we stop blaming people for using the shit roads in a way we don't like and focus on how shit the roads are?

Specifically for Leeds, it's too far gone to fix. Bomb and rebuild. I'll let you know when so you can get your Mrs out.

[jakebullet]

43 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Jake, just look at your picture man.

That junction is a 2 acre expanse of tarmac dedicated to the car. Cyclists get a green strip to the front of the queue whereby no doubt an angry dice seller in a shonky discovery will force past them at the first opportunity whether there is space or not.

Pedestrians? Haha, fuck em. I assume there will be a fair amount of non-drivers in them tower blocks, and maybe some of the shops they want to go to are on the left of the picture? I'm guessing but I reckon it's about 5-10 minutes to actually press all the buttons and get across in the way you are meant to. What would you do?

This junction is crying out for some sort of bridge, underpass etc so the cycle and foot traffic doesn't have to play with the cars.

Can we stop blaming people for using the shit roads in a way we don't like and focus on how shit the roads are?

Specifically for Leeds, it's too far gone to fix. Bomb and rebuild. I'll let you know when so you can get your Mrs out.

No way is my excellent* discovery going into Leeds. The C1 gets terror duty instead.

It's an out of date google capture, and like many roads in Leeds now has bollards between the cycle lane & the cars. I'd cross the roads one at a time rather than walk blindly diagonally across a large junction that has traffic coming from four directions and hope my "right of way" gives me super powers of not being killed to death. Also, would you or any sane person go into a hypothetical underpass in Armley?

This is outside the Mrs's. Students get off the bus, and stroll randomly across the road to the college. The college entrance is at the bottom right of the pic, so they're risking death to then walk past a perfectly good crossing. N yes, the crossing is one of those that changes pretty much instantly on demand. 

 

 

Drivers coming the other way have no visibility of the bus stop, so no warning there's going to be random idiots who know their rights*

[wuvvum]

2 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

Specifically for Leeds, it's too far gone to fix. Bomb and rebuild. I'll let you know when so you can get your Mrs out.

Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Leeds

It isn't fit for human needs

[Metal Guru]

6 hours ago, willswitchengage said:

They seem to be resented by most but as an easy solution to urban transport, they're great. Obviously we're all lazy and CBA to walk anywhere anymore so if they get people out of cars and whizzing around instead, I'm all for that. Instead of the local cops childishly impounding them all why now update the HWC with some sensible rules for their use, and the same for mobility scooters which seem to suffer from the same issue of being in a legal grey area.

 

I was in Oslo a couple of years ago and e scooters were everywhere before they were common here.

They were used 100% on the pavements, but I saw no problems because the people using them ( mostly teens - 20s), didn’t have the British aggressive “get outta my f@cking way!” mentality, and so e scooters and pedestrians seemed to co-exist reasonably well.

( Our Oslo correspondent will probably contradict me and say there are now so many they are a pain)

 

[paulplom]

The sense of cyclists summed up in a nut shell.

I'm a keen hobby cyclist btw.

[sutty2006]

2 hours ago, paulplom said:

The sense of cyclists summed up in a nut shell.

I'm a keen hobby cyclist btw.

I got sent that last week. I have watched it many times and laughed like a hyena until my chuckle muscles hurt. Sorry. Just the way it is. 
 

Im afraid cyclists mentality needs to change. It’s all good and well putting something in the Highway Code but as mentioned earlier, no fucker reads it, so what’s the point? I’ve been the shop this morning for cow juice. On my way home there was a cyclist riding in my direction on the opposite side of the road. Without looking, he rode straight across both lanes into my path. So I had to sit behind him. What really annoys me is they’re constantly bobing on and off the pavement as and when it pleases them. Either stay on the road or fuck off back to bed you spanner. 

[5speedracer]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:48 PM, AnnoyingPentium said:

My new parking sensors are great. You feel them instead of hearing them, you know when there's a bump you've hit something*...

 

*... or someone.

I once ran into a kid of probably 10 or 11 years of age, so quite aware you'd think, whilst unloading a car from a transporter. I'd taken one car off the bottom deck and walked back up the ramps for the next one, jumped into it, stuck my head out the window and reversed off. Just as I was getting to the bottom of the ramp there was a thud!

Turns out the kid had decided to cross the road right behind me as I was reversing a car toward him and I hadn't seen him as I was blindsided. Luckily he was okay and went on to live a fulfilling life with an enhanced sense of self preservation.

[sutty2006]

40 minutes ago, 5speedracer said:

I once ran into a kid of probably 10 or 11 years of age, so quite aware you'd think, whilst unloading a car from a transporter. I'd taken one car off the bottom deck and walked back up the ramps for the next one, jumped into it, stuck my head out the window and reversed off. Just as I was getting to the bottom of the ramp there was a thud!

Turns out the kid had decided to cross the road right behind me as I was reversing a car toward him and I hadn't seen him as I was blindsided. Luckily he was okay and went on to live a fulfilling life with an enhanced sense of self preservation.

And he probably learned a lesson from it too. Unlike today’s society who would be offended easily by a parked truck at the side of a road. Future doesn’t look good! 

[carburettor]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:08 PM, bangernomics said:

Have you ever ridden in a cycle lane that’s full of crap, holes, raised or dropped ironwork?

I tend to stay as in the lane as much as possible but the routes I take I know where the bad bits are and just move out well in advance. The road is shared.

Yes, up until about 10, could be more years ago I rode a Fausto Coppi racing cycle. I changed to a front suspension mountain bike as the roads were full of pot holes and raised iron works, roadworks poorly completed with bumps and dips. I complained to the council once and I was informed that  they do not bother with pot holes if they are under 40mm deep I was almost knocked off whilst trying to avoid them.

I’m not really bothered about this topic anymore as [some] people [seem] have opinions based on their want and absolute right, not common sense, and [some] seem very sarcastic, condescending too. Also seemingly trying to belittle people by posting certain phrases is basically a tactic used by people to bully, it actually negates what could be a valid point.

[carburettor]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:11 PM, Dave_Q said:

What really gets me is how very willing humans are to believe that all the problems are caused by some "other" group of people, immigrants, the EU, cyclists, etc etc.

Lycra clad wankers and car clad wankers shouldn't be enemies, the real enemy is the people responsible for just about zero investment in any usable transport infrastructure in living memory.

I've actually been out tonight and part of the route was CS1 - from the name I was expecting big things as this is claiming to be a Cycle Superhighway from Bradford to Leeds.

It. Was. Shite. The best way I can think to describe it was like they rang 12 different councils and asked for their unwanted cycle paths and stuck them in place to more or less cover the route. Some bits are green. Some bits are not. Some bits are protected from the road by a kerb. Some bits are just white lines on the pavement. In some places it just disappears without warning. There are some signs. But not loads. Even though I had the route on a sat-nav and am not particularly stupid, I found myself either off the route or on the wrong side of the road at least 3 times.

The absolute best bit, was coming into armley, slight uphill stretch. There are some roadworks, not sure if they are related to the cycle lane but they were blocking it. The lane just ended with a sign saying to merge into the single lane of fairly heavy traffic. Safety was taken care of, and this is good, by a sign, that said Do Not Overtake Cyclists. I'm sure that works.

Please don't blame other humans on bicycles for being on the road, actually most of them would probably rather not be sharing with cars. But the alternative is often worse. Or slower. Or there isn't one.

Huge sigh, I don’t blame any actual group of people. Immigrants? Where did that come from? Your reply to my post maybe indicates a willingness to  bracket me with people who don’t like immigrants, the EU etc. don’t recall calling cyclists Lycra clad wankers.

The whole reason for my stance on cyclists is because it’s a dangerous occupation, which is because of next to zero investment in roads and cycle paths.

The people who use roads, pavements and cycle lanes on pavements without lights or bright clothing and helmets on illegal (in law only) electric scooters are commuting not using the cycle for a hobby I would imagine.

[willswitchengage]

27 minutes ago, carburettor said:

I complained to the council once and I was informed that  they do not bother with pot holes if they are under 40mm deep I was almost knocked off whilst trying to avoid them.

I once did hit one, forks snapped, went flying into some of those metal railings that used to be common around pedestrian crossings (which were broken by my momentum). The local homelesses who saw the spectacle of me flying into the distance loved it. Landed on my head but was luckily wearing a lid at the time!

[DavieW]

Then only people to benefit from this new law will be the bodyshops repairing all the cars that have been rearended when they "have" to stop when turning off a main road.

[willswitchengage]

21 minutes ago, DavieW said:

Then only people to benefit from this new law will be the bodyshops repairing all the cars that have been rearended when they "have" to stop when turning off a main road.

Shouldn't we always be vigilant anyway and looking out for people walking out into the road? That's why we have 20/30 mph speed limits in urban areas. In the days of portable phones most pedestrians seem to blindly walk into the road anyway, so for me this specific change is just reinforcing that road users should continue always looking out for those on foot.

Talking facetiously, I'd much rather be rear ended than live with the conscience and legal ramifications of running someone over.