Highway Code changes 29/01/22 - what do you think about it?

[New POD]

On 28/01/2022 at 15:56, noseypoke said:

I Think Push bikes owners should have to carry insurance , be fitted with running lights and bells or horns  and hi-viz  clothing...Let's face it they use the road and the pavement and go straight thru traffic lights when it suits them, failing that fit all cars with cow -catchers!!

I think the state should give liability insurance free to anyone on a bicycle.  who paid any Tax or national INSURANCE in this or the previous tax year, or was in receipt of state benefit or pension.  

Provided, they have passed a cycling proficiency test, are wearing a helmet and hi vis, and if it was dark had working lights.  

 

[New POD]

6 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

Well said.

I did my cycling proficiency at school around 2012/13. I think it should be mandatory to sit the course. Sure, it might not change much in the grand scheme of things, but it may help educate some.

I passed myncucling proficiency in 1978. Every child in Top juniors in every local school (6 or 7 primary schools IIRC) turned out on a Saturday morning with a bike and was given a numbered bib, and had to ride a 3 mile route around town, with adult observers on every corner. We were set off a 1 minute intervals. I nearly failed because I over took 3 other cyclists. I explained that, I'd checked over my shoulder first and given the correct hand signal before hand, and that I wasn't going to stay behind some one that couldn't keep up.with a pedestrian. 

 I was also nearly failed before hand because my chosen bike had deriailer gears and there was a bike inspection by some jobsworthy who said my chain was too slack. Luckily one of the other adult volunteers knew something about bikes and intervened..

 I don't think anyone failed, but some of the kids (girls especially) had clearly never riden a bike before. 

There was classroom teaching the week before.  Which seemed to.go.on for days. 

[sutty2006]

10 hours ago, FakeConcern said:

 

I have also noticed plenty of cars driving in the dark/fog/heavy rain/spray with no lights or only DRLs on the front despite the legal requirement for dipped beam in poor visibility.

Basically you get stupid people driving and stupid people cycling.

I blame Rapha for making the all black cyclist cool. Before that Pro Team kit was fashionable and usually bright and eye catching (for obvious reasons) until it became blighted with the "full kit wanka" stigma...

Very true about folk driving with no lights on. I’ve never seen so many cars driving without lights in poor conditions and it’s disgraceful. It’s a real shame that folk cycling AND driving don’t consider their own safety on the road. 

[Metal Guru]

7 hours ago, New POD said:

I passed myncucling proficiency in 1978. Every child in Top juniors in every local school (6 or 7 primary schools IIRC) turned out on a Saturday morning with a bike and was given a numbered bib, and had to ride a 3 mile route around town, with adult observers on every corner. We were set off a 1 minute intervals. I nearly failed because I over took 3 other cyclists. I explained that, I'd checked over my shoulder first and given the correct hand signal before hand, and that I wasn't going to stay behind some one that couldn't keep up.with a pedestrian. 

 I was also nearly failed before hand because my chosen bike had deriailer gears and there was a bike inspection by some jobsworthy who said my chain was too slack. Luckily one of the other adult volunteers knew something about bikes and intervened..

 I don't think anyone failed, but some of the kids (girls especially) had clearly never riden a bike before. 

There was classroom teaching the week before.  Which seemed to.go.on for days. 

Maybe some enterprising LA could bring it back under “environmental studies” for which there seems to be endless time for. After all, getting kids to cycle is far better for the environment than teaching them which box to put the recycling in.

There should also be a minimum age for cycling on the road. I wince when I see a cycling family with 4 or 5 year olds in a busy road.

[warch]

My take on all this;

I use roads routinely as a pedestrian (runner) where I often encounter stupid or aggressive driving from people driving to fast or cutting in and out and again to get past (nearly been hit by people doing that). I try to be as reasonable as possible, so I'll hope onto the verge if there is one or off the road, or wave them off if I can see the road ahead is clear. I can see why cyclists get pissed off if this is what they get on a regular basis (I'm an occasional cyclist). 

I have also seen militant cyclists at their worst, especially in Bristol, where I was once accused of jaywalking (?) by a cyclist whilst crossing the road on foot. I also saw an old lady taken out at quite high speed by a cyclist whilst she was on a pelican crossing. I think cycling is a good thing, and should be encouraged for a variety of reasons, but I can't reconcile myself some of the more extremism views I used to hear. I got a fearful bollocking off another cyclist for stopping at lights on a junction once, because 'we don't stop for them'. I saw another attack a bus, banging on the windows and screaming at the driver for coming a bit close to him in a bus lane.  

One thing that should be encouraged with road use is reasonableness. If you're driving something slow or holding up miles of traffic, whether on foot, or on a bicycle or in a tractor, don't be a twat, pull over and let it pass. I've always tried to do this, it also prevents you getting taken out by a hari kari overtaking manoeuvre. Conversely don't try and put the wind up some poor sod on foot or a bike or moped by driving right behind them or cutting them up.

[Metal Guru]

47 minutes ago, warch said:

My take on all this;

I use roads routinely as a pedestrian (runner) where I often encounter stupid or aggressive driving from people driving to fast or cutting in and out and again to get past (nearly been hit by people doing that). I try to be as reasonable as possible, so I'll hope onto the verge if there is one or off the road, or wave them off if I can see the road ahead is clear. I can see why cyclists get pissed off if this is what they get on a regular basis (I'm an occasional cyclist). 

I have also seen militant cyclists at their worst, especially in Bristol, where I was once accused of jaywalking (?) by a cyclist whilst crossing the road on foot. I also saw an old lady taken out at quite high speed by a cyclist whilst she was on a pelican crossing. I think cycling is a good thing, and should be encouraged for a variety of reasons, but I can't reconcile myself some of the more extremism views I used to hear. I got a fearful bollocking off another cyclist for stopping at lights on a junction once, because 'we don't stop for them'. I saw another attack a bus, banging on the windows and screaming at the driver for coming a bit close to him in a bus lane.  

One thing that should be encouraged with road use is reasonableness. If you're driving something slow or holding up miles of traffic, whether on foot, or on a bicycle or in a tractor, don't be a twat, pull over and let it pass. I've always tried to do this, it also prevents you getting taken out by a hari kari overtaking manoeuvre. Conversely don't try and put the wind up some poor sod on foot or a bike or moped by driving right behind them or cutting them up.

100% agree with what you say. Unfortunately the world is made up of at least 50% twats.

[AnnoyingPentium]

1 hour ago, Metal Guru said:

Unfortunately the world is made up of at least 50% twats.

That figure seems low to me.

[Spurious]

I case anyone believes that cyclists are the problem, I'll just leave this here.... 

[Jerzy Woking]

8 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

Very true about folk driving with no lights on. I’ve never seen so many cars driving without lights in poor conditions and it’s disgraceful. It’s a real shame that folk cycling AND driving don’t consider their own safety on the road. 

I think that 99% of cars with Day Light Running lights have the dash lights on permanently. 

So driving into and through dusk into darkness, its easy to think you have your lights on, as your dash is lit up.

You can buy decent, bright LED bicycle lights for a couple of quid. Most of those I saw didn't forget to switch their bike lights on, as they had none fitted.

Life not worth  two quid to some.

[carburettor]

20 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

Around Stoke I see more cyclists WITHOUT lights than with them in the dark. Witnessed two young lads riding along a road, in the centre, wearing black, no lights on. Do folk not get educated or are they just plain stupid. What was the old cycling proficiency saying? See and be seen? Or something like that. Too many MAMILs out there on black bicycles, wearing black gimp suits and black helmets poncing around in low light. I appreciate the ones that make an actual effort to be seen, but those that don’t can get fcuked. 

Me too, less than 25 miles from you. 
also, a pedestrian walked out from between 2 parked cars, I heard a bump and stopped, the guy limped to my window and said oh! I said oh, what and he told me I ran over his foot.My wife was panicking  and said we were sorry. I said, ok hold on if I’ve just ran over your foot I’ll get the police, oh no need to bother with the police he said, I said no mate, your shoes are not wet and it’s raining, if I had ran over your foot your shoe would be wet, now fuck off, he turned around and walked away.

The reason I’m saying this is that in some parts of the world like Staffordshire we get a special type of c*nt, cyclist and pedestrian. They have very little to lose, so are willing to try it on anywhere and everywhere.

Daily Fail? No thanks. It’s a comic.

 

[carburettor]

1 hour ago, Spurious said:

I case anyone believes that cyclists are the problem, I'll just leave this here.... 

 

Oh wait depopulate? I’m out thanks, unless someone wants to categorically deny that this is some middle class ***t on a mission

[carburettor]

53 minutes ago, Jerzy Woking said:

I think that 99% of cars with Day Light Running lights have the dash lights on permanently. 

So driving into and through dusk into darkness, its easy to think you have your lights on, as your dash is lit up.

You can buy decent, bright LED bicycle lights for a couple of quid. Most of those I saw didn't forget to switch their bike lights on, as they had none fitted.

Life not worth  two quid to some.

I know, I’ve been dazzled by them when driving.

Why don’t some cyclists use the cycle lane? Is it because they don’t know about the use of the lane? Or is there another reason? I especially like the super bright LED cycle lamps which flash, the morons that use these don’t deserve any tea.

 

[mintwth]

8 hours ago, carburettor said:

Why don’t some cyclists use the cycle lane?

There is no obligation on cyclists to use cycle lanes, they have as much right to use the majority of roads as any motorised traffic. 

Where cycle lanes are not used it is often because the design and/or (lack of) maintenance of the cycle lane makes it dangerous to use.  In addition, the Department of Transport actually advises cyclists who travel over 15 mph to use roads instead of shared use cycle lanes due to the risks posed to/by pedestrians because of the speed differential. 

[Scruffy Bodger]

3 hours ago, Jerzy Woking said:

I think that 99% of cars with Day Light Running lights have the dash lights on permanently. 

So driving into and through dusk into darkness, its easy to think you have your lights on, as your dash is lit up.

You can buy decent, bright LED bicycle lights for a couple of quid. Most of those I saw didn't forget to switch their bike lights on, as they had none fitted.

Life not worth  two quid to some.

I managed to spot some little twat a while back. He was riding down the kerb on a dark rainy night and then decided it was a good time to cross the road a bit in front of me. No lights, no reflectors, all dressed in black with a black hoody up.  Darwinism in motion.

[richardmorris]

13 minutes ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

I managed to spot some little twat a while back. He was riding down the kerb on a dark rainy night and then decided it was a good time to cross the road a bit in front of me. No lights, no reflectors, all dressed in black with a black hoody up.  Darwinism in motion.

So you did see him then? No excuse really but the most Agro I have is when fully daygloed up with lights and reflectives. There are none so blind as those who do not look.

[Scruffy Bodger]

18 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

So you did see him then? No excuse really but the most Agro I have is when fully daygloed up with lights and reflectives. There are none so blind as those who do not look.

Yes I saw him or otherwise the idiot little cunt would've got squashed as he didn't seem to put two and two together, ie there are car lights now illuminating the road equals there might just happen to be a car coming. He didn't even look from what I could make out.

I live in a rural area in a small town with no cop shop for 13 miles so none of the little scrotes have lights, it's only the serious older cyclists that have the right kit.

[MikeR]

but all this overlooks one thing , the human eye is not perfect ,

not only that many people have problems with eyes ..thats why we have eye tests and specs !!

FFS the eye even has a built in blind spot , look it up , you can make a item in your view disappear if you try ..its just to the right of center on your right eye .

and the other issue , being in the right does not offer protection from a speeding lump of metal separating you from life ... 

even in the jungle little things stay out of the way of bigger things ... in the city ..little things have right of way !! ,

ok have you seen some of the drivers around here ??  , I stay behind them in a car , never mind risking it on foot or bike ...

 

 

[Scruffy Bodger]

Try driving a V50 if you want blind spots, especially the B pillar. You can forget looking over your shoulder to check the blind spot when pulling over on the motorway, you have to drive off your mirrors like you're in a van. I used to drive a super 7 copy every day for years, just a strip of ally round the screen. it always makes me think how many people are killed each year by the blind spots created in the name of safety in modern cars. In the wrong situation you can literally not see a pedestrian or cyclist because of the ridiculous A post.

 

[Bren]

There has always been a hierachy.

However I think cyclists are in for a shock - I fully expect the government will at some point tell them they have to contribute financially.

[loserone]

On 30/01/2022 at 03:41, New POD said:

I think the state should give liability insurance free to anyone on a bicycle.  who paid any Tax or national INSURANCE in this or the previous tax year, or was in receipt of state benefit or pension.  

Provided, they have passed a cycling proficiency test, are wearing a helmet and hi vis, and if it was dark had working lights.  

 

I actually really like this idea.  Along with free cycling proficiency tests.  Quoting because I know just how many people have New POD on ignore!

[New POD]

6 minutes ago, loserone said:

 Quoting because I know just how many people have New POD on ignore!

🤔☹😢😡🤬🧐

Thanks for the reality check. The hidden narcissist inside me is crying uncontrollably.  

[inconsistant]

5 hours ago, Bren said:

There has always been a hierachy.

However I think cyclists are in for a shock - I fully expect the government will at some point tell them they have to contribute financially.

'We' already do.

[Spurious]

5 hours ago, Bren said:

There has always been a hierachy.

However I think cyclists are in for a shock - I fully expect the government will at some point tell them they have to contribute financially.

It's entirely unenforceable. 

A. Traffic policing isn't a priority in this country any more. Who'll enforce it? 

B. You'd need some form of registration scheme for bicycles. What then. Number plates? Tax the person? 

The costs of setting up a scheme and enforcing it would probably be more than what the current situation is at the moment. 

Then there's the ethics of it. Taxing something that's low impact on the roads, takes up fuck all space and has measurable health and environmental impacts just doesn't make sense. 

[Bren]

11 minutes ago, Spurious said:

It's entirely unenforceable. 

A. Traffic policing isn't a priority in this country any more. Who'll enforce it? 

B. You'd need some form of registration scheme for bicycles. What then. Number plates? Tax the person? 

The costs of setting up a scheme and enforcing it would probably be more than what the current situation is at the moment. 

Then there's the ethics of it. Taxing something that's low impact on the roads, takes up fuck all space and has measurable health and environmental impacts just doesn't make sense. 

Many things this government have done don't make sense. Remember getting rid of tax discs to save money? The savings were a pittance compared to revenue lost by people who simply chose not to pay.

[Bren]

6 hours ago, Bren said:

There has always been a hierachy.

However I think cyclists are in for a shock - I fully expect the government will at some point tell them they have to contribute financially.

I will also point out that I am a cyclist when my respiritory system allows me.

[Metal Guru]

13 minutes ago, Bren said:

Many things this government have done don't make sense. Remember getting rid of tax discs to save money? The savings were a pittance compared to revenue lost by people who simply chose not to pay.

Road policing is a joke. They are only interested in speeding and drunk driving because both can be proven on the spot ( over or under a limit),so you’ve no defence. Hardly anyone gets done for careless driving and  dangerous driving only gets prosecuted if you actually kill someone.

Insurance, tax and licence offences only get picked up if you’re followed by a police car with ANPR, and then the fine is less than half of what honest people pay.

[Bren]

23 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

Road policing is a joke. They are only interested in speeding and drunk driving because both can be proven on the spot ( over or under a limit),so you’ve no defence. Hardly anyone gets done for careless driving and  dangerous driving only gets prosecuted if you actually kill someone.

Insurance, tax and licence offences only get picked up if you’re followed by a police car with ANPR, and then the fine is less than half of what honest people pay.

Road policing is one of the biggest casualties from cuts.

[martc]

Belgium, Switzerland, The Netherlands, several US states and Poland used to have a registration/tax scheme for pushbikes; the Swiss scheme finished in 2011, the Belgian scheme ran into the 1990's. In Shanghai (and possibly elsewhere in China) you still have to register and tax your pushbike. The tax is used to maintain cycle lanes  etc. I have a 1987 Brabant plate on my pushbike picked up from a flea market in Brugge for 1 euro.

[Jerzy Woking]

2 hours ago, Spurious said:

 

Then there's the ethics of it. Taxing something that's low impact on the roads, takes up fuck all space and has measurable health and environmental impacts just doesn't make sense. 

Why did I have to pay £96 a year VED for my motorbike? Low impact on congestion, cause little damage to road surfaces, and take up little space when parked.

 

[mintwth]

9 hours ago, Bren said:

There has always been a hierachy.

However I think cyclists are in for a shock - I fully expect the government will at some point tell them they have to contribute financially.

Do you also think pedestrians, horse riders, etc. will be in for a shock? 

I know the government has already told pretty much everybody they have to contribute financially. Income tax, VAT, various duties and other taxes.