The grumpy thread

[Bobthebeard]

Scary stuff.

"If the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem has to look like a nail"

Yup. That's the US.

[Vin]

Interesting take on Syria, seems about right unfortunately

 

"Bombing Syria: war as therapy - The narcissism of the bomb-Syria brigade is terrifying"

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/syria9/13960#.Uh3zbH-29EM

[Junkman]

"If the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem has to look like a nail"

 

If the only tool you have is a missile, then every problem has to look like a country.

[Bobthebeard]

If the only tool you have is a missile, then every problem has to look like a country.

America is such a massive consumer of oil. Any threat to oil supplies seems to be dealt with in the same way. War. Political spin is used of course, chemical weapons being the latest. The World has many countries that have terrible records of human abuse, but only the oil bearing countries are considered worthy of intervention.

It won't end well, but it never does. Money and power being the two motives. The UK is now just a 'satellite' of America so here we go again. IMHO.

[autofive]

America is such a massive consumer of oil. Any threat to oil supplies seems to be dealt with in the same way. War. Political spin is used of course, chemical weapons being the latest. The World has many countries that have terrible records of human abuse, but only the oil bearing countries are considered worthy of intervention.

It won't end well, but it never does. Money and power being the two motives. The UK is now just a 'satellite' of America so here we go again. IMHO.

 

 

the interesting part of this whole syria 'affair' is the intention of the USA (and the UK) to openly side with 'the rebels' (the new mujahideen/al qaeda/the taliban whatever you choose to call them) to smash the government who the usa had previously supplied these chemical weapons to, along with conventional arms, attack helicopters, police & army training etc.

 

its afghanistan /russia or iran/iraq all over again and we are still living with the outcome of both these conflicts today.

[Junkman]

Adolf Obama is orchestrating WW3, that's what's currently going on. So what's all the fuzz?

[Bobthebeard]

the interesting part of this whole syria 'affair' is the intention of the USA (and the UK) to openly side with 'the rebels' (the new mujahideen/al qaeda/the taliban whatever you choose to call them) to smash the government who the usa had previously supplied these chemical weapons too, along with conventional arms, attack helicopters, police & army training etc.

 

its afghanistan /russia or iran/iraq all over again and we are still living with the outcome of both these conflicts today.

How true...

The definitions of 'terrorist' and 'rebel' are clearly only defined by what the USA and UK actually want from that country. Oil and a stable Middle East. So oil it is then.

[STUNO]

Can the UK (and the US) govts say they have no chemical warfare supplies ? If no the might just have the moral superiority.

[autofive]

Can the UK (and the US) govts say they have no chemical warfare supplies ? If no the might just have the moral superiority.

 

 

who developed sarin for military use?

 

i ll give a clue: I live here

 

who sold it to Iraq? (most likely source of the warheads)

 

do you need any clues?

 

 

 

just as there are restrictions on 'conflict diamonds' and Raubgold isn't about time we had restrcitions on looted oil?

[Junkman]

Can the UK (and the US) govts say they have no chemical warfare supplies ? If no the might just have the moral superiority.

 

Hey, we are the good boys, understand?

[Cavcraft]

I don't profess to understand much about Syria but I wouldn't be happy to have 'us' just stand by whilst they dropped chemical weapons on their countrymen.

 

That said, I've always maintained that its bollocks 'we' care about human rights or we'd have invaded China by now.

I mean its not like we have a massive amount of trade with them or the fact they'd kick our arse big time is it? So China must be fine and there's never any human rights issues against their own people?

[dollywobbler]

That's the thing Cavette - it's absolutely f*ck all to do with human rights. That's just the cover story, much as it was with Iraq. After Iraq, I can't really believe that chemical weapons were used against Syrian people by the government, just because our media/government tells us so. It could also be argued that even if chemical weapons were used, it was in response to an uprising sponsored by the West. If you don't want a lion to attack you, don't poke it with a bloody stick.

[Spiny Norman]

The trouble with this 'war on terror' is that the Muslim states tend not to like it when we westerners impose our notions of democracy and morality on them. Maybe we should just sit back and let them fight it out?

If there's military action to be taken, let the other Arab states take care of it, we should learn to keep our noses out.

 

On another note, how would we have felt if the Yanks (or the UN or someone else with an over inflated sense of self righteousness) had intervened in Northern Ireland?
Who's to say they'd have come down on the side of the UK government and not the republicans? What would have happened then?

[SambaS]

America makes me ashamed to be a human being.

[SambaS]

Again

[Lord Sterling]

Syria. All this talk of a possible invasion of Syria is causing a lot of discomfort to my existing worry as I have family over there as well as my possible Lady_Sterling in-waiting.

 

All this on top of coming home and having twatty little chav kids effing and blinding at me thinking they are somehow tough. All I'm doing is coming "home" and parking my car up.

 

I want out of here. NOW

[Junkman]

The trouble with this 'war on terror' is that the Muslim states tend not to like it when we westerners impose our notions of democracy and morality on them.

 

Tellya wot, I can sort of imagine Ali and Mohammed sitting there on a settee in one of them Muslim states, watching telly.

And what they see is Adolf Obama, Josef Cameron, Eva Merkel, and what's that French wanker's name? doing their thing. All wonderful elected Führers of our superb defugginmocracies.

Now, if being 'led' by this kind of deadfucks is what a democracy leads to, I can fully understand that Ali and Mohammed agree to be a tad reluctant to allow something similar to happen in their country.

[Bobthebeard]

Syria. All this talk of a possible invasion of Syria is causing a lot of discomfort to my existing worry as I have family over there as well as my possible Lady_Sterling in-waiting.

Exactly.

When the Iraq war kicked off I felt quite bad about it. But now I feel poorly thinking about the human suffering that all that caused. Back then, Iraq was just 'some other country' to me and the implications didn't hit. Now I feel differently. One of my closest friends was born in Baghdad. Moved here in the 80's. Have known him for six years and he is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He is just like you and me! Surprise surprise.

Works for BT and pays his taxes. Guess the point I am trying to make here is that people are people, whether in Syria, Iraq, France, England, Scotland, Ireland or whatever. They hurt when bombed or shot. Just as we would!

Enough of this war mongering bollocks. Stop it now!

Rant over

Sorry.

[Cavcraft]

America makes me ashamed to be a human being.

 

 

America/Americans is/are becoming the new 'modern cars' debate on here. They're not all bad, you know.

[RedSparrow]

America/Americans is/are becoming the new 'modern cars' debate on here. They're not all bad, you know.

 

A lot of them are thick and shallow but then so are a lot of British people. What annoys me most about Americans is they think they have the best most free and equal country in the world, which they don't.

 

Actually I probably should stay out of this debate.

[Lord Sterling]

After Iraq, I can't really believe that chemical weapons were used against Syrian people by the government, just because our media/government tells us so. It could also be argued that even if chemical weapons were used, it was in rsponse to an uprising sponsored by the West. If you don't want a lion to attack you, don't poke it with a bloody stick.

I don't wish to involve myself in a debate about Syria as it hurts enough as it is. But I would like to clear up a few small points.

 

My father is Syrian, therefore I am part Syrian myself, hence my (real) name. I have been many times to Syria, although it was a fairly peaceful (and wonderful) place to be, there was always the feeling of fear/treat from the government. The people in Syria watched the 'Arab Spring' uprisings and decided that it was time was to stand up and protest, peacefully against Bashar al-Assad and make thier voices and opinions heard. Assad did not like this and sent his army and thugs to disperse the people and cause mayhem, then the police would single out the ring leaders and torture them into submission. Assad is like every other dictator, your either with him or against him, if you are against him, you won't be around for long....

 

The people though refused to back down and continued to protest, peacefully, against Assad and his goverment asking him to step down. More and more people (including my cousin) were tortured by the Police. So, this is how the "rebels" were created. The rebels are made up of (mostly) normal young men who feel passionately to fight against Assads oppression and Army desserters who did not wish to carry out Assads orders.

 

Let me make it clear that there no Muslim extremists within the rebel groups/opposition there are no factions (sunni/shia'a) are fighting against each other, these people are not welcome in Syria by the rebels, opposition groups or government. This bloodshed doesn't discriminate by religion, sector or politics. Everyone is involved in it and everyone has been affected by it.

[Ghosty]

This song is currently rather relevant.

[chaseracer]

Thank you, Mo.

[Lankytim]

I don't think there's talk of an invasion or occupation of Syria is there? Just a few cruise missiles to piss them off a bit.

[RedSparrow]

I don't think they'll do a ground war, at least at first. But I think we can expect a lot of missiles from both sides.

Syria is fairly well tooled up being so closed to Israel. The worry is if Israel see this as a chance to nick more territory from Syria or wherever else they fancy.

[purplebargeken]

I also doubt there will be a ground war. We simply cannot respond in such a manner at this point. No doubt Israel will stick it's snout in at some point, then it will get stupid(er).

[SambaS]

Sorry I meant *most Gouvernments especially the US and UK at the minute* I guess peace is unattainable so long as us humans are here and then even other animals eat eachother

[The Moog]

I am officially having a shit day. left my house this morning in kinross off to pick up Ruffgeezers xantia. Get to edinburgh after spending £10 on a bus ticket and then I can't find my wallet. I seem to have lost it between house and edinburgh, to add to the woes my train tickets can only be collected with the now missing card. Bugger.

 

New ticket would be £160 so that is out. Mission aborted until next week. Luckily I had car money seperately so didn't lose that and could dip into it to get bus back.

 

All this whilst carrying a flywheel and clutch in my bag. Oh and my mp3 player died on the way home.

 

Overall my trip today cost me £100 in different things... buggeration

[skattrd]

Sorry to hear about your woes Moog, and I'm now feeling guilty about you having to lug that flywheel/clutch around.

Unfortunately my trip to Scotland got cancelled so I can't offer you a lift South to Mr. Ruffgeezer either

[The Moog]

Its not a problem as long as I got the train