The "They forgot to stop making them" thread

[New POD]

12 hours ago, Alfa botherer said:

I’m surprised there has been no mention of top autoshite the Daewoo Espero or Daewoo Nexia yet.  Because all Vauxhall’s are shite, even when they are a Daewoo.
 

As we know, the Espero was based on the Mk2 Cavalier/Opel Asconda platform and went on ‘till ‘97. I’m thinking the Vectra nameplate arrived in the UK in ‘95? So the Espero outlasted the mk3 cav/ Vectra A by a couple of years. 

The Nexia (nee Cielo) was based on the mk2 Astra and also lasted ‘tll ‘97 in the UK. I think the mk3 Astra went on longer than that. 

However my really half arsed research, (skim reading Wikipedia)  suggests licence built Nexia’s were built as recently as 2016, possibly in an Uzbekistani factory? If that’s true then it outlasts, by my count, 4 generations of Astra.

If you look at the basic mechanical layout of mk2, mk3, and mk4 astra, and compare them to the mk2 and mk3 cavalier, the basic concept design didn't change much between 1980 and 2005. 

My son learnt to drive in a mk3 cavalier, and then moved on to a mk4 astra, which he says is like driving a mk3 cavalier.  He's not wrong. 

Obviously being GM they reused the basic design across the world. 

[cort1977]

4 hours ago, Madman Of The People said:

I thought some of you might be interested in some YankShite they forgot to stop making.

In 1982, General Motors introduced it's new front drive "A-Body" platform.  The A-Body spawned the Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, and Buick Century.  For most of the 1980's, the A-body cars formed the backbone of GM's mid-sized offerings.  However, by the end of the decade, newer and fresher models arrived to replace the A-Bodies.  As the new "W-Body" cars were rolled out, they began to replace the now dated looking A-Bodies.

The Chevrolet Lumina saloon replaced the Celebrity, a four-door Grand Prix replaced the 6000 at Pontiac, a freshly downsized Cutlass Supreme ostensibly took over from the Cutlass CIera and a similarly reconfigured Regal did the same at Buick.  However, for reasons I can not begin to fathom, GM continued to keep the A-Body Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century in production several years after their W-Body replacements arrived in showrooms.

As late as 1996, you could still buy these old nails shown below.  They were little changed from the cars first introduced in 1982.

 

Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera.

 

 

Buick Century.

 

 

Because old people.  Those were squarely aimed at retired people who remembered the glory days of Buick and Oldsmobile, liked chrome, liked velour and didn't like paying too much.

There is definitely a thing for some people in the US that it's better to buy something shit but new instead of something good but secondhand.  

[doubleyeller]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:38 PM, wuvvum said:

Being pedantic, the Renault 4 didn't outlast the Mk2 R5 - it went out of production when the Twingo was introduced in 1992, the Supercinq lasted another couple of years after that. 

Four years if you want to be really pedantic....

[Madman Of The People]

16 hours ago, cort1977 said:

Because old people.  Those were squarely aimed at retired people who remembered the glory days of Buick and Oldsmobile, liked chrome, liked velour and didn't like paying too much.

There is definitely a thing for some people in the US that it's better to buy something shit but new instead of something good but secondhand.  

 

There's a lot of truth to that statement.  America has plenty of risk-adverse consumers who value the allure of a warranty above all else.  When most Americans speak of "quality" in a car, what they're really talking about is reliability.  Driving dynamics, handling, soft-touch plastics, fit and finish all count for nothing.  As long as the car starts with every turn of the key and asks for nothing in terms of maintenance, it will be perceived as a "quality" product.  This is why the dullest of dull Japanese tin boxes are some of America's best sellers.  The fact most of them are built down to a price is an added bonus.

 

 

[somewhatfoolish]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:25 PM, catsinthewelder said:

Peugeot 405's are still being made in Iran Outliving the 406 (2004 in Europe, 2008 in Egypt) and the 407 (2011) although the others have been made in Iran but I don't know the dates.

The LDV Pilot outlasted the LDV Cub by a couple of years.  A version of the Sherpa was also made by BMC in Turkey but I can't find when it went out of production.

The BMC Levend seems to have died in 2011, but I can't read turkish and google isn't turning up much, the newest one I can find in classifieds is 2009.

[mk2_craig]

Suzuki Jeeps.

These SJ410 things were everywhere in the mid-late 80s, seemed to be replaced sooner or later by the Vitara, but I wouldnt be surprised if theyre still being knocked out in India or somewhere .

I was very surprised to see a brand new unregistered one of these at my local main stealer only a couple of years ago, I know there's a new version of the Jimny now but this shape must have been in production for near as dammit two decades.

 

[Richard_FM]

I remember when I was in Turkey in 2012 there were a lot of BMC & Ford lorries around as one of the main roads was being turned into a dual carriageway, all looking quite new.

[sierraman]

10 hours ago, Madman Of The People said:

 

There's a lot of truth to that statement.  America has plenty of risk-adverse consumers who value the allure of a warranty above all else.  When most Americans speak of "quality" in a car, what they're really talking about is reliability.  Driving dynamics, handling, soft-touch plastics, fit and finish all count for nothing.  As long as the car starts with every turn of the key and asks for nothing in terms of maintenance, it will be perceived as a "quality" product.  This is why the dullest of dull Japanese tin boxes are some of America's best sellers.  The fact most of them are built down to a price is an added bonus.

 

 

I was told by someone who had lived in America, apart from taking your car to one of those ‘quick lube’ places that vacuums the oil out, garages in the US are prohibitively expensive. Plus a lot of cars are fixed when they break if you like. 

[Walter White]

49 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I was told by someone who had lived in America, apart from taking your car to one of those ‘quick lube’ places that vacuums the oil out, garages in the US are prohibitively expensive. Plus a lot of cars are fixed when they break if you like. 

Thats interesting and unfortunate for car owners in USA. Doubly unlucky as it seems used car prices are strong there, so you'd have to pay what looks a high price to us for an old car and plenty to service or repair it. 

[Inspiral_Mondays]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:12 AM, Three Speed said:

I’d like to mention the last version Ford Crown Victoria which was produced (with a styling change) from 1979 to 2012. 4.6 litre V8, separate chassis - old school.  Ran out of road when the updates to keep the design legal were  no longer viable. 
We had a 2000 model from 2000 to 2004. Wish I still had it. Bulletproof.

Indeed. I had them as rental cars when I was on business trips in the US in 2012 and was amazed to find they were still being built. Hilariously underpowered V8, 3 speed plus overdrive gearbox and cart spring suspension gave a real 70s driving experience, including embarassing tyre squeal in multi-storey car parks and bouncy understeer pretty much everywhere else. In contrast to the older Crown Vics these last of the line models were also clearly thrown together. Left me pining for a Chrysler 300 to be honest.

[Inspiral_Mondays]

On 9/29/2020 at 8:55 AM, New POD said:

If you look at the basic mechanical layout of mk2, mk3, and mk4 astra, and compare them to the mk2 and mk3 cavalier, the basic concept design didn't change much between 1980 and 2005. 

My son learnt to drive in a mk3 cavalier, and then moved on to a mk4 astra, which he says is like driving a mk3 cavalier.  He's not wrong. 

Obviously being GM they reused the basic design across the world. 

To be fair, there is a huge amount of platform reuse across product generations by the car manufacturers. The acknowledged master of this “old wine in new bottles“ strategy is Toyota, but with a nod in the direction of VW whose EA827 4 cylinder engine, launched in the Audi 80 B1 in 1972, is still used today.

[fordpoplier]

7 hours ago, Walter White said:

Thats interesting and unfortunate for car owners in USA. Doubly unlucky as it seems used car prices are strong there, so you'd have to pay what looks a high price to us for an old car and plenty to service or repair it. 

This is true, I'd love to replace my shite 2005 ford focus with something newer (say a 2010 ford focus). This would be relatively easy in the UK because they're both probably sub grand knackers but here your looking at 5 or 6 grand at a minimum.  I am jealous of your '200 quid and drive it away' cars:)

[Walter White]

12 hours ago, fordpoplier said:

This is true, I'd love to replace my shite 2005 ford focus with something newer (say a 2010 ford focus). This would be relatively easy in the UK because they're both probably sub grand knackers but here your looking at 5 or 6 grand at a minimum.  I am jealous of your '200 quid and drive it away' cars:)

Every market is different, I wouldn't be too envious of a lot of the £200 UK motors but I know what you are saying.

Between 2008 and 2010 I lived in Adelaide where at that time I paid 1300AU Dollars for a 1985 Mitsubishi Colt (vgc, with rego from a dealer), however I sold for 950.

When I returned to the UK the scrappage scheme seemed to have taken a lot of cheap used cars out of the market so I forked out £695 for a 95 Carina e. The half decent £300, £400 and £500 cars seemed to have disappeared and become a thing of the past. 

[quicksilver]

23 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

Suzuki Jeeps.

These SJ410 things were everywhere in the mid-late 80s, seemed to be replaced sooner or later by the Vitara, but I wouldnt be surprised if theyre still being knocked out in India or somewhere .

I was very surprised to see a brand new unregistered one of these at my local main stealer only a couple of years ago, I know there's a new version of the Jimny now but this shape must have been in production for near as dammit two decades.

 

Spot on, that type of Jimny was made from 1998 to 2018 with only minor changes and it was old-fashioned even at launch! It must have been popular as there's a lot of them around and I guess Suzuki weren't complaining that they could still sell such an antiquated product that owed them nothing.

[martc]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:14 AM, mk2_craig said:

Suzuki Jeeps.

 

These SJ410 things were everywhere in the mid-late 80s, seemed to be replaced sooner or later by the Vitara, but I wouldnt be surprised if theyre still being knocked out in India or somewhere .

 

I was very surprised to see a brand new unregistered one of these at my local main stealer only a couple of years ago, I know there's a new version of the Jimny now but this shape must have been in production for near as dammit two decades.

 

They stopped making the Maruti Gypsy (nee SJ410) last year - details, and some history, here - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/its-end-of-road-for-the-iconic-maruti-gypsy/popular-choice/slideshow/68283360.cms

The Gypsy may/will be replaced by the new style, ultra-hip, Jimny.

[angle]

You can still buy a JMC Teshun in China, which is what happens when a Mk3 Transit dresses up as a stormtrooper. No Pinto unfortunately, you can either have it with a Mitsubishi petrol engine or a locally built diesel. 

[Datsuncog]

On 9/27/2020 at 2:50 PM, sierraman said:

Went to Turkey about 13-14 years ago and there were loads of Renault 11 and the Fiat Mirafiori shape Tofas. Didn’t see any Otosan Cortinas sadly, think they lasted until 1993 there with bits of Orion tacked on. 

Indeed... various unconvincing 'modernisations' seem to have been forced on them.

Still tons of Renault 12s around when I was over twelve years back - both original styled ones...

 and facelifted versions, still badged as Renaults.

[Bazfr69]

I’d quite like a 12 for some reason...

[mk2_craig]

4 hours ago, angle said:

You can still buy a JMC Teshun in China, which is what happens when a Mk3 Transit dresses up as a stormtrooper. No Pinto unfortunately, you can either have it with a Mitsubishi petrol engine or a locally built diesel. 

Bizarre that the fronts had such an extensive reworking but the rest (mirrors aside) appears to be totally unchanged, even down to the wheeltrims design:

 

[Madman Of The People]

9 hours ago, Walter White said:

Every market is different, I wouldn't be too envious of a lot of the £200 UK motors but I know what you are saying.

Between 2008 and 2010 I lived in Adelaide where at that time I paid 1300AU Dollars for a 1985 Mitsubishi Colt (vgc, with rego from a dealer), however I sold for 950.

When I returned to the UK the scrappage scheme seemed to have taken a lot of cheap used cars out of the market so I forked out £695 for a 95 Carina e. The half decent £300, £400 and £500 cars seemed to have disappeared and become a thing of the past. 

 

As America's handling of the Coronavirus pandemic has proven, the U.S. is really a third-world country that pretends to be a first-world country.  This reality can also be seen in America's car culture.  Decent used cars are priced out of reach for many of the working poor, who are forced to buy overpriced bangers from dubious BHPH (Buy Here-Pay Here) dealers charging interest rates that would be illegal in any civilised country.  Even the consumers who can still afford to buy new are discovering their incomes have not kept pace with the skyrocketing prices of new cars.  Hence the rise in 84 month and even 96 month car loans!

Is it any wonder these consumers value reliability over design, driving dynamics, or soft-touch plastics?  Many of America's motorists simply can't afford to have a breakdown!

 

[Richard_FM]

The Ford Crown Victoria was really a 1970s car under the 1990s reskin that was still being made until recently, though for the last few years only available for fleets sales as they were popular as police cars & taxis.

[willswitchengage]

UAZ 452 'Bukhanka' (loaf of bread) and 469 (jeep) are still made today, with the predictable new engines and plastically interiors. Otherwise, unchanged.

https://uaz.global/cars/commercial/classic

https://uaz.global/cars/suv/hunter

They were first brought to market in the mid 60s and, unlike the 'Lada', are native Soviet designs. Unlike the Lada too they remain pretty popular everywhere in the CIS to this day.

[martc]

36 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

UAZ 452 'Bukhanka' (loaf of bread) and 469 (jeep) are still made today, with the predictable new engines and plastically interiors. Otherwise, unchanged.

We had a thread, a couple of years ago, about cars still being made with a starter handle hole, the UAZ Bread Loaf was prominent. Along with it's sibling the UAZ469, another one they forgot to stop making - note the starting handle hole...

And to complete the holy triumvirate, a third starting handle equipped vehicle they forgot to stop making, the Beijing BJ212.

Wanna buy one? https://vehicle-baw.en.made-in-china.com/product/ESvnuIeybRYB/China-BAW-Light-off-Road-Vehicle-Bj212-Mini-Jeep.html

[Tre3]

1 hour ago, willswitchengage said:

UAZ 452 'Bukhanka' (loaf of bread) and 469 (jeep) are still made today, with the predictable new engines and plastically interiors. Otherwise, unchanged.

https://uaz.global/cars/commercial/classic

https://uaz.global/cars/suv/hunter

They were first brought to market in the mid 60s and, unlike the 'Lada', are native Soviet designs. Unlike the Lada too they remain pretty popular everywhere in the CIS to this day.

Still looks great though. Why would they stop making something so cool?

[willswitchengage]

In terms of engineering more broadly the Cessna 172 has been in production since the 1950s. The Boeing 737 has been in continuous production since the 1960s and shares the majority of its architecture and design with th3 Boeing 367-80 - first flown in 1954. The Hercules airlifter was also introduced in the 1950s and Lockheed Martin still make them today. What incredible designs they all were.

[sierraman]

20 hours ago, Madman Of The People said:

 

As America's handling of the Coronavirus pandemic has proven, the U.S. is really a third-world country that pretends to be a first-world country.  This reality can also be seen in America's car culture.  Decent used cars are priced out of reach for many of the working poor, who are forced to buy overpriced bangers from dubious BHPH (Buy Here-Pay Here) dealers charging interest rates that would be illegal in any civilised country.  Even the consumers who can still afford to buy new are discovering their incomes have not kept pace with the skyrocketing prices of new cars.  Hence the rise in 84 month and even 96 month car loans!

Is it any wonder these consumers value reliability over design, driving dynamics, or soft-touch plastics?  Many of America's motorists simply can't afford to have a breakdown!

 

Who buys a car over 96 months? It would be effectively a banger after 96 months at the end. It’s especially hard in America as if you haven’t a car in a lot of places you are absolutely fucked. Even going for a pint of milk would be a half a day job if you lived in a rural area. 

[Three Speed]

On 30/09/2020 at 19:03, Inspiral_Mondays said:

Hilariously underpowered V8, 3 speed plus overdrive gearbox and cart spring suspension gave a real 70s driving experience, including embarassing tyre squeal in multi-storey car parks and bouncy understeer pretty much everywhere else. In contrast to the older Crown Vics these last of the line models were also clearly thrown together.

All true except the cart springs. Live axle but coils and discs all round. 

[Yoss]

On 9/25/2020 at 6:15 PM, timolloyd said:

The Triumph 1300 was supposed to replace the Herald when it was launched in 1965. The Herald outlived it by a year, surviving until 1971.

I guess the overlap between Morris Minor and 1100 is something similar?

Not quite true. The 1300 was meant to fill the rather large gap between the Herald and the 2000 which it did. The Toledo was the Herald replacement which of course used most of the same bodyshell but was mechanically simpler with a more basic interior.  The whole 1300/1500/Toledo/Dolomite story is a long and twisted one. The fact you could buy a Dolomite in 1981 is laughable when you look at what else was for sale then, it was still essentially a 1960s car. I'm not knocking them, I own a 1300TC, but by 1981 they were way out of date. 

[Alusilber]

9 hours ago, willswitchengage said:

In terms of engineering more broadly the Cessna 172 has been in production since the 1950s. The Boeing 737 has been in continuous production since the 1960s and shares the majority of its architecture and design with th3 Boeing 367-80 - first flown in 1954. The Hercules airlifter was also introduced in the 1950s and Lockheed Martin still make them today. What incredible designs they all were.

I think it's fair to say aircraft and helicopter design basically plateau'd in the 1950s/60s. The Chinook first flew in 1961, is still being built today and the US Army is planning to keep theirs flying until at least 2060. The B-52 was designed in the late 1940s; the USAF's current fleet were built in 1961/62 and are expected to still be flying in 2050. The RAF have been flying their Puma helicopters for nearly half of their 102-year existence. Of course these designs evolve and get upgraded over the years, particularly in the avionics and engine departments, but still... 

[bunglebus]

9 hours ago, Yoss said:

The whole 1300/1500/Toledo/Dolomite story is a long and twisted one. 

Always thought it bizarre that Trimph were making a FWD saloon in the 60s when all its competitors were RWD, then during the 70s as FWD started to be the accepted format, they made it RWD.