1977 Princess 1.8 HL

[vulgalour]

The major deities of Ayemytahzwell, Projktkreip, and Aylljhusfixthat work in unison to thwart our efforts to attain nirvana.  For true peace, we must leave one imperfect item untouched by human hand.

[vulgalour]

The minor deities are Fukkit, Buggrit, and Losstenmil.  They are frequently called upon and rarely of any real assistance.

[phil_lihp]

7 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Buggrit

Millennium hand and shrimp!

#terrypratchett

[phil_lihp]

@Dj_efk I've been surprised at how flexible the engine is, a 5th gear wouldn't hurt it but it's perfectly happy at 60mph and has no trouble keeping up with modern traffic.  No doubt there's a few performance options available for this engine given it's been used in MGBs but it's pretty good as it is, although that said I would quite enjoy having a sleeper Princess that could burn modern cars off at the lights!

[bunglebus]

[phil_lihp]

Good grief!

[SiC]

Does this have or did they ever have overdrive?

[Dj_efk]

2 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

@Dj_efk I've been surprised at how flexible the engine is, a 5th gear wouldn't hurt it but it's perfectly happy at 60mph and has no trouble keeping up with modern traffic.  No doubt there's a few performance options available for this engine given it's been used in MGBs but it's pretty good as it is, although that said I would quite enjoy having a sleeper Princess that could burn modern cars off at the lights!

Oh don’t get me wrong, I would never want to build a “serious” sleeper out of one of these, it would seem against the character of the car (and the handling would be seriously shown up badly too). 

My aim was to improve its current character, by both making it a bit more torquey and also improving the fuel economy on a long run by say 10% or so through the addition of upgraded head plus electronic / updated ignition system - This would over time start to payback a little of the outlay plus do away with the points and condenser - which as everyone knows these days is a no-brained thanks to new ones being made of Chinesium and the old stock ones now being hard to find.

As you point out, the fact that it’s a B series means there’s all sorts of upgrades available that will fit should you feel like it. Personally, if I had some play money available this is what I would do.

[phil_lihp]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Does this have or did they ever have overdrive?

It doesn't, and no, I don't think they ever did - at least not on the manuals.  Maybe on the 2200 autos?

[phil_lihp]

1 hour ago, Dj_efk said:

Oh don’t get me wrong, I would never want to build a “serious” sleeper out of one of these, it would seem against the character of the car (and the handling would be seriously shown up badly too). 

My aim was to improve its current character, by both making it a bit more torquey and also improving the fuel economy on a long run by say 10% or so through the addition of upgraded head plus electronic / updated ignition system - This would over time start to payback a little of the outlay plus do away with the points and condenser - which as everyone knows these days is a no-brained thanks to new ones being made of Chinesium and the old stock ones now being hard to find.

As you point out, the fact that it’s a B series means there’s all sorts of upgrades available that will fit should you feel like it. Personally, if I had some play money available this is what I would do.

The owner's manual actually has a page on ST tuning parts!  Back on page 1 of this thread I was mulling over what engines would be good in a Princess, purely as a theoretical exercise - I'd never actually do it.  The usual Rover/Triumph V8 probably wouldn't fit anyway, maybe a K series or a 2.0 turbo T series out of a 220 Tomcat! 

Mine's about as healthy as an 1800 B gets I reckon - without a rebuild, at any rate.  Despite its 80k miles it doesn't really leak any oil, doesn't smoke or make funny noises and the ignition system is all brand new - even the points are NOS Lucas items.  It does drive well but as you say, too much extra power will definitely show up the handling.  Being an early one it doesn't have power steering so it's heavy and somewhat awkward.  Goes well with the recalcitrant gearchange!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

These things are lousy for engine swaps as the engine bay is very narrow due to the gearbox-in-sump layout, there's just not the width for an alternative end-on gearbox arrangement. And you can't start chopping it about much before you have run into the mounts for the upper suspension arms, which sit at the back corners of the engine bay.

I wondered for a while if a KV6 would be short enough to fit in one, being only 3.5 cyls long. but TBH i am doubtful.

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Electrickery is the answer, the guts of a Zoe or a Leaf transplanted would be the thing.

[phil_lihp]

9 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Electrickery is the answer, the guts of a Zoe or a Leaf transplanted would be the thing.

Now that would be amazing.  It'd also solve the issue I've got with a minor exhaust leak.  My dad has a 2017 Leaf - the only question is, how easily does an 1800 B series slot into a Leaf?  

1 hour ago, Mr_Bo11ox said:

These things are lousy for engine swaps as the engine bay is very narrow due to the gearbox-in-sump layout, there's just not the width for an alternative end-on gearbox arrangement. And you can't start chopping it about much before you have run into the mounts for the upper suspension arms, which sit at the back corners of the engine bay.

I wondered for a while if a KV6 would be short enough to fit in one, being only 3.5 cyls long. but TBH i am doubtful.

 

The only thing I know of is that Jonny Smith has got someone fitting a 2.7 Honda unit out of a Rover 800 into his Austin Allegro.  I guess with enough time and money, anything is possible but it does seem like semi-realistic options are limited.  Maybe a nice L-series diesel?

[MorrisItalSLX]

Surely the only sensible* engine option is a B series diesel from an old Sherpa?

Then you can go round all the car shows telling giffers it is a 1 of 1 BL prototype.

[SiC]

I imagine a modern 1.0 3 cyl would fit in these ok as they're pretty dinky. However it would take the appeal out of the car imo and the b-series is an alright lump. Reliable, easy to work on, well understood and plentiful parts supply. 

[somewhatfoolish]

Find a 2200 and turbo it.  How did the ozzies increase the cubes on those? I presume it's a stroker crank as the siamese bores prevent much boring out, and a stroker crank may not be compatible with a sump full of cogs.

[Dippy]

Just noticed from your photoshoot n Barnstaple that you are just up the road from me. Im near Bude and have a 2200 HLS which will finally be tax free in a couple more months 😎. Didnt bother using it last year as everything was shit and didnt want to pay the road tax knowing it would soon be free, bit looking forward to getting out in it again soon.

I only know of one more Princess in the area of a guy I met  at a show who lived near Camborne.

[phil_lihp]

Cool, maybe once things return to normal we should introduce them!  I have never seen another one on the road so it's good to hear there are a couple about!

[SiC]

That would be a right Royal gathering

[dozeydustman]

How different is a Maxi’s gearbox save the number of forward gears? Did any of the Aus/NZ market E6 offering have a 5 speeder as an opshun?

[phil_lihp]

That's interesting to note, as the tyre pressures as recommended are ludicrously low (something like 22 PSI I think) - might give that a go!

[vulgalour]

Book recommends 26 front and 24 rear for regular driving, 23 front and 28 rear for towing (caravan or similar), or 23 front 21 rear for 'light loads and speeds under 70mph for a softer ride'.

I tend to run mine at 28, seems a happy balance for what I use it for.  I did drop it down to 26/24 and it was just a bit too squidgy for me so I can't imagine what it's like dropped right down to 23/21.

[Noel Tidybeard]

surely a EFi head would fit on an o-series

[Low Horatio gearbox]

On 1/7/2021 at 11:37 AM, phil_lihp said:

And in the interests of retaining the correct equilibrium, the speedometer no longer works.  

TADTS my Rovers bounces 5 mph over then under true* (ish) speed and the Jag overeads by 10...ish.  I'd say you are right about the cable  being broken/unwond itself - probably behind the dash as that ofcourse the hardest place to get at.

 

 

[holbeck]

23 hours ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

Surely the only sensible* engine option is a B series diesel from an old Sherpa?

Then you can go round all the car shows telling giffers it is a 1 of 1 BL prototype.

Princess  1.8D was a thing.  

BL let a few out in the wild with tame taxi drivers but the feedback was pretty negative so they went off the idea. 

[Fumbler]

6 minutes ago, holbeck said:

Princess  1.8D was a thing.  

BL let a few out in the wild with tame taxi drivers but the feedback was pretty negative so they went off the idea. 

A whole 50 were made according to ARonline. I wonder what the general public would have thought of them?

[holbeck]

12 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

A whole 50 were made according to ARonline. I wonder what the general public would have thought of them?

Interesting to wonder,  but I do remember as a kid in the 70s the only person I knew who had a diesel as a private car was an eccentric old duffer with a Merc estate.

[HMC]

I like the idea of a tuned b series in this. They (BL BMH or whatever they were called that week) did do something similar with the ‘crab (1800s) so a bit of OEM+ would be a nice touch.

[Noel Tidybeard]

16 hours ago, Fumbler said:

A whole 50 were made according to ARonline. I wonder what the general public would have thought of them?

an escrote mk3 diseasel was faster & moar refined!🤣

[jonathan_dyane]

A Perkins Prima conversation should be relatively straightforward, particularly if there was space to shoehorn a turbo in.