Dicky’s Disastrous Debris - a WEDGE joins the fleet 4/8/24

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Angrydicky said:

@LightBulbFun

 

ah interesting  so it looks like they have dropped that then

its a shame, you can no longer tell when an old car was computerised now!

thanks for grabbing that info for me, its something that I have been wondering for a while now so its good to have answer to it

(I wonder if the info is still on the system but just not printed anymore or if they dropped it entirely?)

 

[brownnova]

How how how have I missed this thread!! I saw it over on the book of faces, but so glad I’ve found the thread! This is truly the most epic of cars, utterly lovely and very glad you’re the one restoring this! Wonderful work!! Not enough like buttons available for all the likes I wanted to give.

(although I apologise for the number of notifications you will have received as a result of me catching up) 

[Angrydicky]

I do like a classic car that comes with history. For me, a big part of the appeal of classic cars is the social history that goes with them. They play such a big role in their owners lives and make so many memories for them.

I knew LOB came with the old green logbook and an older V5, but nothing else, so I was really excited to discover it came with a decent bundle of musty old paperwork. Let’s have a look through it.

A quick note before I start: the owner mentioned on the paperwork is deceased, and the addresses mentioned now belong to completely different people. I can’t be arsed to edit out interesting information.

So as far as I can gather, John Terry took delivery of LOB on 20th September 1959. Prior to this, he had owned a Morris 8, and an Austin A40 van, HJF 492. Both Austins were bought on hire purchase, and it looked like it took about three weeks to arrange it for the Hampshire.

First of all he had to settle the account of his A40, with the impressively named “North Central Wagon and Finance Company Limited”. They sent him a rather nice little certificate, the sort of thing you’d get at school for ten lengths of backstroke, for clearing his account.

Then, with that paid off, it was time to set up the payments for the Hampshire. He bought it from a used car dealer called “Lee’s car sales”. I like the schedule as it gives a fascinating insight into who the previous owner was, his age, occupation etc. He must have been so proud of the Hampshire, being such a big, comfortable car after the rattly old prewar Morris, and the Austin van.

In 1962, an exchange Gold Seal engine was supplied and fitted:

And a new carb, supplied by Austin main dealer Atkeys. There is also correspondence from Zenith, advising him a new carb could be purchased from Atkeys, as his most local dealer, and enclosing some really nice information and exploded diagram of the carb. Which will come in handy soon, more to follow.

There’s piles of manuals, various books (more manuals still in the car for similar Austins) old MoTs, tax discs etc. There’s also a lubrication chart for the Morris, and accompanying letter from Castrol.

And hopefully I’ve left the best until last.

The glovebox on the drivers side was seized shut. The hinge had rusted solid. I managed to prise it open just enough to extract its contents, which were this fascinating collection of old parking and attraction tickets. They provide a wonderful insight to the different places it went. The dates I can make out are 1965 and 1966, and the locations are:

Nottingham

Derby

Mablethorpe

Hunstanton

Harrogate

London

Alton Towers

Thoresby Hall

Hardwick Hall

Matlock Bath - Heights of Abrahams

Newstead Abbey

Wicksteed Park putting green

Drayton Manor Park

Twycross Zoo

Does anyone know where or what “Ivy Series” was? He seems to have been a regular there, with various differently priced tickets.

 

 

[Angrydicky]

Here's the address on the older paperwork:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/7+Athorpe+Grove,+Old+Basford,+Nottingham+NG6+0AJ/@52.9845618,-1.1749658,3a,75y,19.23h,89.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0TAzzjBC5_9Ee6tjdavYWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4879c1b86eca022f:0x63d9c48485add6c4!2s7+Athorpe+Grove,+Old+Basford,+Nottingham+NG6+0AJ!3b1!8m2!3d52.9846226!4d-1.1748933!3m4!1s0x4879c1b86eca022f:0x63d9c48485add6c4!8m2!3d52.9846226!4d-1.1748933

Then in 1987 he moved to this house. There is a Hampshire-shaped lump wrapped up in a white tarp down the side of the house, which would explain the severe rot on the drivers side and the extreme damp inside the car - the damp was trapped on the side against the fence and never got a chance to dry out, poor thing. I reckon it was parked there for 30 years until the owner died, it was dragged out by the nephew, and transported to the council depot.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/61+Glamis+Rd,+Nottingham+NG5+1ED/@52.9806625,-1.1668038,3a,30y,239.19h,87.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGmYz2zl86MyWEFSpphiddQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4879c1bcf430a57f:0x3d24671f980f4cfc!2s61+Glamis+Rd,+Nottingham+NG5+1ED!3b1!8m2!3d52.980582!4d-1.1669361!3m4!1s0x4879c1bcf430a57f:0x3d24671f980f4cfc!8m2!3d52.980582!4d-1.1669361

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, Angrydicky said:

....Does anyone know where or what “Ivy Series” was? He seems to have been a regular there, with various differently priced tickets.

 

That £1 ticket for the NCP in Queensway: the NCP is still there.

The Ivy Series might be something to do with cycle races.

[vulgalour]

Sir, if it wasn't for the slight corrosion issue you have encountered, I would accuse you of blatant one-upmanship with this acquisition and be forced to compose a sternly written letter to someone of importance!

[spartacus]

Wow, what a find, that's the icing on the cake. When you've had enough of welding you can sit down with a cuppa and read about greasing points and olden days maintenance schedules. That's genuinely fantastic.

[vulgalour]

Those 'Ivy Series' tickets are I think from a fairground or theme park, which does tie in with the other ephemera.  "Ivy Series" is either the print company or the brand of tickets, it's not the place or event.  They'd also sometimes be used at bingo halls, or more local fairgrounds and village fetes, though they look a bit more professional and large scale so I'd be leaning more towards Alton Towers and the like.  A lot of those places the car has been reminds me of the sorts of places we'd go when I was little so it must have been very much a Derbyshire sort of thing.

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I'm with you of the value and importance of the individual story of a car.  Any little snippets which help rebuild a forgotten picture are invaluable and your Austin clearly has many of those little gems. Did the owner's nephew inherit any photos from him? A car which has been such an integral part of the family to the point that the owner stored it for three decades as he couldn't bear to part with it speaks volumes. Photos of it in its heyday would be the cherry on top I'd have thought. 

On a different note, how's your welding? 😛

[hairnet]

what are atkeys and fregar now?

did atkeys still do cars after austin?

 

[Datsuncog]

Crikey, what a history file. Astonishing that so much of it has survived so well, despite the endemic damp.

I'm always interested in price equivalencies - so couldn't help but feed some of the numbers into the Bank of England's inflation calculator...

If the Hampshire had a windscreen price of £285 from Lee's Car Sales in September 1959:

That's nearly £7k in today's money - for what was then a nine year old car.

A fair whack, it has to be said - and the £40 charge for the Hire Purchase arrangement would add the equivalent of over £1000 to the overall cost in 2020 prices.

The Gold Seal engine in 1962...

Grand and a half - plus another £170 equivalent for the new carb.

That's serious coin, for a twelve year old car which would have been looking pretty dated by this time - the same year the Cortina and Morris 1100 were launched. Clearly, this Hampshire was really cared for by someone who appreciated its very traditional qualities.

It's the social history from the files that really draws me in too - the details of who owned it and fretted about it, the streets where it would have been a familiar sight, the places it travelled to. The trove of tickets in the glove box really is the icing on the cake.

I'm very glad this one's been saved!

[wuvvum]

That is superb!  I've occasionally found odd bits of contemporary paperwork in old cars I've bought, but nothing close to that treasure trove.

[R1152]

On 30/03/2021 at 23:07, Angrydicky said:

The main identity plate on Counties Austins is a little Bakelite plate usually fitted on the back of the drivers sunvisor. Sadly, the sun visors in this car have really suffered. have have a good spare Somerset one that looks the same to me but the all important plate is in very poor condition on this car. There is a bloke in Canada doing repros but they’re just not the same. The chassis plate, the one riveted to the chassis, has actually corroded through the middle on this car! 

Pendant mode - that's not Bakelite. It looks like Ivorine, which shrinks with age - hence the state.

[somewhatfoolish]

  

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

(PS may I advise you crop the image so the right side of your first picture so the Chassis number etc is not visible?) 

Ordinarily perhaps; I doubt there's a Moriarty out there waiting for an opportunity to ring that priceless Austin Hampshire they've been lumbered with.

  

1 hour ago, R1152 said:

Pendant mode - that's not Bakelite. It looks like Ivorine, which shrinks with age - hence the state.

Fascinating rabbithole there; also called Ivoride, Ivoroid, Pyralin and French Ivory, a form of celluloid which was easy to colour and used as an ivory substitute for cost and "we've nearly killed all the elephants to make billiard balls" reasons. Wildly flammable and as shown not exactly stable. Made by the marvellously named British Xylonite Company, amongst others.

  

On 3/30/2021 at 11:07 PM, Angrydicky said:

The main identity plate on Counties Austins is a little Bakelite plate usually fitted on the back of the drivers sunvisor. Sadly, the sun visors in this car have really suffered. have have a good spare Somerset one that looks the same to me but the all important plate is in very poor condition on this car. There is a bloke in Canada doing repros but they’re just not the same. The chassis plate, the one riveted to the chassis, has actually corroded through the middle on this car! 

What's amiss with the repros? Is the typeface wrong? It is quite distinctive, almost like it was molded rather than stamped; from what I've read of Ivorine it probably was a hot stamping/pressing process as it's a thermoplastic, even the chassis and engine numbers don't look engraved and they would be indexed for every vehicle so the typesetting must have been an easy or automatic process.

[Angrydicky]

His number stamps aren't quite the same style as the originals. As you say, it must be stamped/moulded hot by someone who knows what they're doing, sadly. AH Spares do a replica plate (also used on early Healeys) but it's up to you to stamp it. 

[somewhatfoolish]

The fidelity of 3D printing is probably near enough there to recreate that look, although if the typeface isn't a standard one recreating it would be a ball ache; as the original is a 2D artifact it might be amenable to being scanned and processed that way.

[Angrydicky]

We've got number stamps at work but they're much bigger than those ones. Reading the Canadian website again, they also just supply the plate itself and it's up to you to hot stamp it. 

Knowing how fussy Healey owners are I'm surprised no one's stamping these up with the correct stamps. At least the plates themselves have been remanufactured. They never would have been had they not been used on early Healeys.

[Vantman]

Ref  'Ivy Series', i seem to recall that they were ticket printers. happy to be corrected due to memory fade.

[artdjones]

6 hours ago, R1152 said:

Pendant mode - that's not Bakelite. It looks like Ivorine, which shrinks with age - hence the state.

Pedant mode:-pedant not pendant.

[R1152]

1 hour ago, artdjones said:

Pedant mode:-pedant not pendant.

It was deliberate. For a forum so cliquey it has its own fucking lexicon I thought that might be a subtle one. 

Evidently not. 

[R1152]

10 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Fascinating rabbithole there; also called Ivoride, Ivoroid, Pyralin and French Ivory, a form of celluloid which was easy to colour and used as an ivory substitute for cost and "we've nearly killed all the elephants to make billiard balls" reasons. Wildly flammable and as shown not exactly stable. Made by the marvellously named British Xylonite Company, amongst others.

It can also be a casein-based plastic; which IIRC was derived from milk!

[somewhatfoolish]

11 minutes ago, R1152 said:

It can also be a casein-based plastic; which IIRC was derived from milk!

Cheese-plastic; I'm fascinated and repulsed.

[R1152]

45 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Cheese-plastic; I'm fascinated and repulsed.

It deforms even worse than celluloid too, I believe. I had a late 30s radio that used it for a dial support.

[somewhatfoolish]

19th century chemists were basically wizards and what they produced was mainly evil, shape-shifting polymers that disintegrate before your eyes, poison or immolate you.

[anonymous user]

2 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Cheese-plastic; I'm fascinated and repulsed.

I think they changed the recipe slightly to create the cheese slices used in all the best* burger vans

[phil_lihp]

Absolutely brilliant finding all that old paperwork, that's one of the things I love about old cars, they have a story to tell and the scraps of paper often say more than the car can.  I was a bit disappointed that my Princess came with almost no paperwork at all, so I was delighted to find some long-lost garage bills and tiger tokens (plus a 1992 tin of cat food) under the back seat when I took the carpets out.  

[Angrydicky]

Cleaned up an obvious bad connection at the fuse box. Operating the trafficator switch produced a small noise as one trafficator tried to operate. I helped it out and sprayed lubricant onto the hinge until it worked really well. Did the same on the other side. Both trafficators now work superbly, even the bulbs work. They are very nice ones with none of the usual slop, which is probably because it’s had flashers since the early 60s and they haven’t really had much use. The wiper motor also now works correctly, albeit it is very slow. I’ve lubricated the wheelboxes behind the dash but the motor ideally needs opening, cleaning and greasing. The flashing indicators are completely dead but I’m not bothered about those as I intend to remove them anyway.

[Angrydicky]

Having spent the last few days indoors, the foam base of the rear seat dried out nicely, so I popped it back in. I still can’t believe how good the seats are on this car.

I spent some time today going through the electrical system trying to get a spark. I have 12v at either side of the coil (with the other wire of the multimeter to battery earth) but put the two multimeter wires on the two coil connections and I get nothing whatsoever. I’m guessing this is something broken inside the coil? I’m not overly confident with electrics, but I have started with the obvious by cleaning all the connections in sight.

I’m not sure what that small cylinder wired to the coil SW terminal is. It looks like another condenser.

One of the good things about this car is the wiring is very good. It’s had one or two modifications over the years, but it’s mostly original and sound.

I did discover some more serious rot unfortunately. A 12” wide section of the middle of the horizontal bulkhead, under the battery tray and the box that would have contained the optional radio, is rotten as a pear. The only way of sorting this really is cut the radio box out get access to do it from on top. I guess the tarp was torn over the scuttle as you can see where it’s been exposed long term. The water has been running down past the seal in the scuttle air vent and the wiper spindle grommets (one of which has a load of tape around it) for years. I’ve pulled out the last of the soggy and mouldy sound deadening under the dashboard now so I can get a proper look at the extent of the rust. Ah well, I’ll ignore it for the moment. I’m not planning to rush into the welding.

[Asimo]

You should measure 12v withrespect to earth at both terminals of the coil when the points are open. When the points are closed one side of the coil should still measure 12v and the other should measure close to zero.

[LightBulbFun]

57 minutes ago, Angrydicky said:

Cleaned up an obvious bad connection at the fuse box. Operating the trafficator switch produced a small noise as one trafficator tried to operate. I helped it out and sprayed lubricant onto the hinge until it worked really well. Did the same on the other side. Both trafficators now work superbly, even the bulbs work. They are very nice ones with none of the usual slop, which is probably because it’s had flashers since the early 60s and they haven’t really had much use. The wiper motor also now works correctly, albeit it is very slow. I’ve lubricated the wheelboxes behind the dash but the motor ideally needs opening, cleaning and greasing. The flashing indicators are completely dead but I’m not bothered about those as I intend to remove them anyway.

 

8519BDCB-2F19-4E52-AD7A-7F9008256FE1.MOV 17.66 MB · 6 downloads

that was quite interesting, I had never seen trafficators operated up close before  I like the nice Thunk they make!

(if you sneak up behind the car shout BOO! really loudly do they both spring out in an alarmed fashion?  )

do you plan to add a flasher unit so the lightbulb inside flashes like a modern indicator, or do you plan to leave it as is?