New shitter. 1982 Citroen VISA.

[Stinkwheel]

I'd imagine you know him. I understand he's very active in 2cv circles. However people may not know he has a Visa in his garden. Was quite funny when it cropped up in conversation. 

Oh I might well do then. Give me a hint at least though, I know quite a few 2CV guys


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[HillmanImp]

Just now, Stinkwheel said:

 

Oh I might well do then. Give me a hint at least though, I know quite a few 2CV guys
 

 

I have no idea, its his son in law I used to work with. I just know he's a serial Citroën apologist.

He may already be on here for all I know. 

I know where Phil works now so will get in touch in the next couple of days. 

[Lankytim]

Is it a guy called Ken? If so i've spoken to him today and it is indeed a 2 cyl Visa that's rotting away in his paddock.  He asked me to email him my requirements and hopefully I'll get a response pretty soon. 

[Stinkwheel]

Ah, is it Ken Wedley?


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[richardmorris]

Ken would?

he writes to me in block capitals in green ink.

[Lankytim]

11 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

Ah, is it Ken Wedley?


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No, Ken Hanna. 

[Stinkwheel]

Oh, yes, I know Ken. Makes the most excellent 2CV chassis.
He’s a really good guy.


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[Mr Pastry]

What about using a coil pack from a modern 4 cylinder wasted-spark engine and only connecting half of it?  Plenty of those to choose from.  Typically there is a live wire going in, and  a trigger wire coming out for each pair of plugs, which is pretty much what happens on the Visa. 

[HillmanImp]

Ha, I just checked with a lad who works with me who knows Phil's wife and and her maiden name was Hanna, so it's almost certainly the same chap. What are the chances?

[Lankytim]

The tyres on this thing were all perished to F00K so I dropped them round the the local tyre fitting place to have some 165/70/13's that I had kicking around fitted. They were going to be a temporary measure as the Visa has mega skinny 135 tyres, I reconed these things would be miles too wide and look totally shite but they actually look fine so may stay. All the rims seem to be capable of reuse too, despite quite severe corrosion on a couple of them. 

[Lankytim]

Guess what turned up today!

 

Guess what the result is!

It still won't run! It tries to fire up to and pops and farts a bit but it's still a no go at the minute which is obviously a mega disappointment but overall hopefully its a step in the right direction. Maybe I just keep flooding the thing. 

[hairnet]

get the carb to have an ultrasonic party

[Lankytim]

Spent 30 mins this morning trying to find the earth for the ignition computer but the haynes manual does't seem to bear any resemblance to what I've got fitted. Still spins over merrily with the odd pop and backfire through the carb. Patience is wearing thin now, I imagine it's something very simple but I'm struggling to find it. 

[Rocket88]

Ref non starting....have you been starting it on the key........?Maybe worth trying to bypass the ignition switch completely, and trying it..........

[Lankytim]

5 minutes ago, colc said:

Ref non starting....have you been starting it on the key........?Maybe worth trying to bypass the ignition switch completely, and trying it..........

Yes, I've been trying it on the key. It might be worth bypassing the ignition switch, especially if a bad connection somewhere is causing the starter to rob power from somewhere else. 

[Mr Pastry]

Good that you've got the right coil at last.   Bypassing the ignition switch is a good shout, as they don't last forever.  Off the top of my head -  are both the sensors on the flywheel housing working/ connected properly?  IIRC one indicates tdc and the other max advance, so they both need to be working.  If it is firing, the computer must be working so its is probably earthing OK, but maybe not getting the right signals.

[Lankytim]

The ignition computer is getting 12v with the ignition on, weather or not it's getting it on the right terminals i'm not so sure so i'm reluctant to add another live from the battery in case I fry something.  I stuck a spanner over the starter motor and cranked the engine over that way to see if that made any difference. It felt like it was going to start and I got a face full of flames from the carb as I was leaning over it. Not totally unpleasant as it at least showed there was a spark somewhere. Further cranking resulted in nothing. 

 

The sensors are a good call as I think the computer cuts the ignition out if it detects a fault on one of them.  I tested them before but I'll have another go.

[wuvvum]

Tssk.  Sensors and computers.  Bloody moderns. 

[500tops]

Tim, reading through the thread it seems as if you obtained your brown coil from Ken Hanna? It might be worth a quick phone call with him to explain where you're at with it and what the symptoms are. He is probably one of the most knowledgeable guys when it comes to the 2cyl Visa set-up. Gotta be worth a shot!

[Mr Pastry]

2 hours ago, Lankytim said:

The ignition computer is getting 12v with the ignition on, weather or not it's getting it on the right terminals i'm not so sure so i'm reluctant to add another live from the battery in case I fry something.  I stuck a spanner over the starter motor and cranked the engine over that way to see if that made any difference. It felt like it was going to start and I got a face full of flames from the carb as I was leaning over it. Not totally unpleasant as it at least showed there was a spark somewhere. Further cranking resulted in nothing. 

 

The sensors are a good call as I think the computer cuts the ignition out if it detects a fault on one of them.  I tested them before but I'll have another go.

Is the ignition computer getting 12 (or any voltage) while you are actually cranking it on the key?  If not, assuming a good battery, that may point to the switch.

[Zelandeth]

If insane standing next to the car I'd go back to basics for a sec.

You've been trying to get it going with no or poor spark for quite a while, so the engine is quite likely flooded.

The carb unless I've missed something is still an unknown quantity isn't it?

I'd get the plugs out, clean them up and get them roasting hot with a blow torch, throw them back in while still as hot as possible, blast a healthy squirt of easy start down the carb throat and crank it with the throttle wide open and see what happens.

Getting the plugs heated up has successfully got me quite a few formerly extremely stubborn engines going, so for the sake of a few minutes would be worth a shot I think.

[spartacus]

Any chance it could have jumped a tooth or two on the belt/sprocket. It's starting to sound like it's got fuel and sparks, just at the wrong time.

[Stinkwheel]

Any chance it could have jumped a tooth or two on the belt/sprocket. It's starting to sound like it's got fuel and sparks, just at the wrong time.

On anything else a reasonable suggestion. On this, completely impossible. No belts or gears.


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[Lankytim]

There's lots going on at home right now but I've been out with multimeter and fresh battery. I've been fannying around with the terminals to the ignition computer and found the earths and the switched live. The earth seems good and the live doesn't vanish when cranking. although it does dip to 10V or so,  there wasn't anything obviously amiss so I scratched my head, had a cuppa and took another look under the bonnet. 

I removed a HT lead and rigged a spare bit of wire from the battery earth and hung it a few MM away from one of the terminals on the coil. Spinning the engine over showed a fairly decent blue spark popping it's way from the terminal and onto the wire. At last! Apparently some progress! I removed the HT lead and put the multimeter on it. From what I can see, there's no continuity and when measuring resistance the multimeter doesn't read anything, although I'm not convinced It's possible to measure the continuity and resistance of a HT lead in the same was as you would a length of copper wire, I'd at least expect to be able to measure some sort of resistance.  I also noted areas of rodent nibbling on the rubber ends of the HT lead, not enough to cause any damage however. What is it with mice and cars eh? Why don't they just piss off. 

I've got a new pair of HT leads but unfortunately they've been packed away in a box and are at another location, I'll dig hem out when I get time, fit them and see what happens. 

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Lankytim said:

although I'm not convinced It's possible to measure the continuity and resistance of a HT lead in the same was as you would a length of copper wire, I'd at least expect to be able to measure some sort of resistance.

I cant see why you cant measure it like a normal wire?

it is literally just a wire, the only difference between it and other wires, is a HT has high voltage insulation so the high voltage it carries does not jump to where its not supposed to

if you strip one back you can see its just a wire inside, so if your not getting any continuity thats a big alarm bell for the wire is broken, and needs replacing 

which would explain why it aint firing up

 

if you want to see a similar looking wire, look inside the back of an old CRT Telly/computer monitor, the big bulky ones  

[Mr Pastry]

10 hours ago, Lankytim said:

There's lots going on at home right now but I've been out with multimeter and fresh battery. I've been fannying around with the terminals to the ignition computer and found the earths and the switched live. The earth seems good and the live doesn't vanish when cranking. although it does dip to 10V or so,  there wasn't anything obviously amiss so I scratched my head, had a cuppa and took another look under the bonnet. 

I removed a HT lead and rigged a spare bit of wire from the battery earth and hung it a few MM away from one of the terminals on the coil. Spinning the engine over showed a fairly decent blue spark popping it's way from the terminal and onto the wire. At last! Apparently some progress! I removed the HT lead and put the multimeter on it. From what I can see, there's no continuity and when measuring resistance the multimeter doesn't read anything, although I'm not convinced It's possible to measure the continuity and resistance of a HT lead in the same was as you would a length of copper wire, I'd at least expect to be able to measure some sort of resistance.  I also noted areas of rodent nibbling on the rubber ends of the HT lead, not enough to cause any damage however. What is it with mice and cars eh? Why don't they just piss off. 

I've got a new pair of HT leads but unfortunately they've been packed away in a box and are at another location, I'll dig hem out when I get time, fit them and see what happens. 

Ancient carbon leads.  I bet that's the problem. ?

[shedenvy]

May be try cranking it over at night time and see if you can see a myriad of electrotricity going everywhere except where it's supposed to.

Asked me Mum & Dad to look out for anything local and this little gem came up:

https://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/1732698002.htm/

You already have brown, beige for the full autoshite livery.

[wuvvum]

/\ Bloody hell that beige Club is tempting... 

[Lankytim]

That Visa looks pretty nice. Who’s going to go and get it?

Just dug these out. I’ll put them on later and cross my fingers and toes.

[Zelandeth]

15 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I cant see why you cant measure it like a normal wire?

it is literally just a wire, the only difference between it and other wires, is a HT has high voltage insulation so the high voltage it carries does not jump to where its not supposed to

if you strip one back you can see its just a wire inside, so if your not getting any continuity thats a big alarm bell for the wire is broken, and needs replacing 

which would explain why it aint firing up

 

if you want to see a similar looking wire, look inside the back of an old CRT Telly/computer monitor, the big bulky ones  

Quite a lot of HT leads aren't just a wire in the interests of reducing the RFI thrown off by the ignition system.  Some use a resistor actually in the cap at one end, but quite a few actually use a carbon composite material for the conductor itself.  Not honestly sure how they would test on a meter, especially bearing in mind a lot of cheaper meters don't have a particularly high impedance measurement range.