Project BX17RD - the further adventures of PBO

[vulgalour]

Don't reckon it was air, it wasn't actually running lumpy, it was more like it was running out of fuel which is why I expected the filter to be full of something and was surprised it wasn't.

[Tickman]

Fingers crossed that it is now resolved. You've had quite a war recently.

Well done for not totally loosing the plot with it.

[cobblers]

The germans have probably got a really good word for the bittersweet feeling of "fixing something without being precisely sure how and not really being all that confident that the fix will last"

[vulgalour]

They have a word for everything.  Maybe @Schaefft knows it?

---

BX news then.  Will it start?  The answer is technically yes.  It requires more cranking than it should and a bit of throttle, but it does start, it's behaving like there's a tiny air leak.  The next question when taking it to the shops is; Will it stall?  The answer is technically yes.  It will stall under two circumstances; the first is when you're stopped with the front higher than the rear, the second is when you're reducing speed rapidly as on the approach to traffic lights etc.  It does restart again fairly willingly and it won't reliably stall, you can sit with it idling for ages and it'll behave perfectly and then you can start it and it'll stall almost immediately.

Another oddity on the errand today was the car had some sort of hiccup, or cough... it felt like a backfire just with no backfire noises, that's the best way I can think of to explain it.  Once it happened, the car ran perfectly fine, none of the idiot lights came on, the guages behaved normally, so I've no idea on that one.  Only did it the once, and hasn't done it again.

If the car is pointing downhill, it is much happier and runs far more normally, both at idle and on the move.  If you have to give it some throttle it behaves normally too, it really plays up the most when you're off the throttle and slowing down, or sat at idle with the nose in the air, which from what we've learned so far seems to point at a blockage of something.

So, while yesterday was so promising and the car is at least now tolerable to drive, if not perfect, more investigation is in order I suspect.  It's too hot to do it today, at least right now, so when it's cooler I'll see if I can get the sender out and have a look in the tank, if it's just a clogged pick up that should at least be easy to resolve.

[scdan4]

Swap in some cheap clear fuel line temporarily. It allows you to see if there are bubbles, it might be pulling air into the fuel somewhere past a seal somewhere.

[Fumbler]

8 hours ago, cobblers said:

The germans have probably got a really good word for the bittersweet feeling of "fixing something without being precisely sure how and not really being all that confident that the fix will last"

Well, I made a sentence:

 

Unbekannte nicht sichere Reparatur

[vulgalour]

It cooled off a bit and I had something to eat so decided to have another investigation of this.  Rear seat base up, cover caps off, and unscrew the bits that house the sender and the fuel pick up.  Last time I tried this was on a much colder day and they didn't want to budge so I left them be, today it was actually fairly easy to do.  Looking in the sender hole didn't really tell me anything, the sender works perfectly fine so I had no concerns here really.  I couldn't get light into the right spot to see into the tank.

The pick-up hole is a bit shallower so you can actually see into the tank a bit.  There's something in there, though no great big gloopy deposits or anything alarming, being a plastic tank there's no corrosion or similar to worry about.

The pick up filter itself again had some bits on it as you'd expect, some bits inside it which you wouldn't so much.  I did flush out the pipes and removed and cleaned the filter, there were some bits inside one of the pipes, looked a bit like dead algae, and may well have been.  Given how easily it disintegrated I doubt it was caused the problems.

Refitting the sender was very easy, the pick up not so much, especially since I had to fit new clamps here as it was still on the factory crimp types.

With it all buttoned back up I tried to start the car and it was exactly the same as before.  There's no leaking of diesel at the  back where these access caps are and it is behaving more like an air leak than a fuel starvation now, though a very small air leak.  The pipes going to the tank seem to be in really good shape, no signs of cracks or pinholes or any deterioration to speak of, so I'm happy to leave those alone for now.  I'm also happy enough with what I could see in the tank and on the pick up that I'm not feeling in any rush to drop the tank at the moment.  Instead, I'm going to turn my attention to the next known fail point on BXs which is the preheater.  I'll pick up a length of suitable copper pipe tomorrow since it's a generic size that's needed and I'll insert that in place of the preheater.  If that eliminates the issue I'll then order a suitable length of fuel hose to replace the whole run from filter to hard line, removing the preheater from the equation.

The items I've chased air leaks and diesel leaks out of so far are:

• Fuel filter head and primer button
• Fuel filter (twice)
• Preheater to fuel filter rubber feed line
• Fuel filter rubber return line
• All spill off lines
• Refurbished fuel injection pump

Suffice to say, it would have been better to just remove the entire fuel system from this car and renew the lot, and that's very nearly what I've ended up doing.  Some of the problems are probably just down to age.  I suspect the problems have been accelerated by the car having been run on unfiltered, or badly filtered, used veg oil at some point in its life, that seems to be what messed up the pump and it definitely hadn't done the filter any favours.  As frustrating as this all is, at least when it's done I'll know it's done.  I may still have to drop the tank and get it cleaned out properly, I'll only know if that's necessary if the preheater bypass doesn't work, and given how often I've thought I've cured the problem only for it to pop up again somewhere else,  I'm still expecting to have to drop the tank.  We shall see.

[PhilA]

4 hours ago, vulgalour said:

They have a word for everything.  Maybe @Schaefft knows it?

---

Another oddity on the errand today was the car had some sort of hiccup, or cough... it felt like a backfire just with no backfire noises, that's the best way I can think of to explain it.  Once it happened, the car ran perfectly fine, none of the idiot lights came on, the guages behaved normally, so I've no idea on that one.  Only did it the once, and hasn't done it again.

Best I can come up with is selbstreparierendes Kopfschmerzproblem. But I'm no good at German.

As far as the phut- hopefully that was whatever gremlin that was stuck inside finally going up in smoke and out of the exhaust. If the exhaust falls off you know it got stuck in there.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Gremlin eviction or not, I might be winning.

---

Next on my list of possible air leaks was the preheater pipe.  The lower clamp is a little awkward to get to, it's not that access is bad particularly, more that the hose keeps trying to run away whenever you attempt to get hold of it.  After a little while, I had the preheater removed and the clamp that came off was definitely past the first flush of youth.  The rubber hose itself looks in pretty good shape so I don't think that's the problem and I've left it alone for now.

Earlier in the day I'd gone out in the Princess which is finally working again (again) so I could try and get some suitable 10mm OD pipe.  I was originally looking for copper since that seemed a sensible option, the only thing available in 10mm steel pipe with a slightly thicker wall than I was after.  Importantly, the internal diameter isn't far off that of the preheater ends, and the external diameter is suitable for the rubber hose.  Chopped it down to size and then chamfered the edges with my bench grinder to remove any burring, as well as running a hand file around the inside to get rid of any swarf and snags that might be hanging out in there.

Fitted it to the car, which was nice and easy, new clamps on each end, primed the system...

...and it works.  I've driven the car about a bit and can't get it to stall under the usual conditions and it seems quite happy.  The only issue that persists is a reluctance to start without throttle which could be the injection pump timing being off or another air leak I haven't found.  The improvement to running and lack of stalling does point at an air leak related to the preheater.  It certainly hasn't been the only air leak, I just hope it's the last one I need to find.  One major difference is that before bypassing the preheater you could press the primer button to improve running if it tried to stall (not while driving, obviously) and now if you press the primer button while it's running, it's already primed and there's enough resistance that you're making no difference.  Hopefully that means the air leaks are now fixed.

To celebrate, on my way back on the test run the BX decided that every time I used the brakes while the left indicator was on, the brakes would turn the indicator off.  That was a fun problem.  After some investigation it looks related to my wiring of the high level brake light, because when the left indicator or the hazards were on, the high level brake light thought it was an indicator.  Press the brake pedal and the indicators and high level brake went off, while the brake lights came on.  Close inspection of the light cluster shows it had been getting warm around the pins that I'd used to provide a feed to the high level brake light, the plastic a little smoother around them then the others.  I don't know why it decided to show up now instead of ages ago when I installed the light.  The solution was to simply disconnect the high level brake light and as much as I like the peace of mind it offered and spent time to route the wiring neatly, the safe option is probably just to remove the whole thing.  Cars, eh?

We shall spin the Wheel of Citroen tomorrow to find out what prizes we win.

[spartacus]

@vulgalour I've got loads of 10mm od copper, if you want to do it in copper then let me know how much you need and I'll send some down.

[vulgalour]

Appreciate the offer, if I need any for anything else, I'll let you know.  For now, we'll stick to the steel, it should serve well for a long time I hope and it saves me getting elbow deep into an engine bay for a bit.

[vulgalour]

NOW FOR SALE

Runs, drives, stops, goes up, goes down, barely uses any fuel.  Has MoT until the end of October.  Everything works as it should.

New things:

• Rear suspension boots
• Four new Uniroyal Rain Expert tyres
• Nice new steel in the front inner arches where needed, a little bit in the boot too, all documented in this thread, followed by seam sealer, paint, and underseal where appropriate
• OEM Citroen rubber floor mats
• Professionally rebuilt fuel injection pump (about £500 for this job alone)
• New glow plugs
• Restored original wheel trims
• Yellow headlight bulb caps
• Cleaned LHM filters and new LHM
• Some new LHM hard lines

There's probably more, it's all documented in this thread.  It's a really well sorted BX, cruises happily with modern stuff on the motorway, seats many adults in comfort, fits loads of stuff in the back even without folding the back seats down.  It's astonishingly comfortable long distance, and great around the doors too.  It's all the car you could ever want.  It should go through its next MoT no bother, but it's an old car so I can't guarantee that.

Full disclosure, there's three flaws I'm aware of:

• Minor LHM weep from the back.  This is probably the rubber o-ring between the sphere and the bit it screws into.  Only leaks when the car is parked and sinks on the suspension after a while, it's a return-leak so not a problem or dangerous.
• Had to delete the original fuel preheater due to it having an air leak, car sometimes requires a bit of throttle on first start to compensate.  Again, not dangerous and typical of this engine.
• The new injection pump would benefit from fine tuning to get it spot on.  It's close enough that it works fine, it would just be nicer if properly tuned.

Comes with a handful of spares, including at least one headlight, the original white bonnet, a pair of head restraints, a couple of manuals, some wheel trims, and a few other bits and bobs I can't remember off the top of my head.

I'm in Allington, which is in Maidstone, Kent.

I'd like around £1,000

Fairly flexible for viewing times and dates, afternoons very much preferred, and of course Covid rules to be observed when viewing at least for the time being.  Drop me a PM on here if you're interested.  I'd like to keep it in the fold if I can.

 

 

[vulgalour]

Got the BX running up today, sorting out the spares and removed personal stuff from the car in readiness for selling it. Annoyingly, it then stalled while idling. This doesn't seem to be an air leak issue as priming the filter made no difference so it's more likely a fuel injection pump timing issue.

The car does drive perfectly normally, it just stalls after it's been idling for 5-10 minutes again and I no longer have the patience to deal with this.

Instead, PRICE DROP TIME!

£500 and it's yours.

I reckon a fresh pair of eyes on it will sort whatever is wrong out pretty easily, I've just had enough of it and need it gone.

[nacho man]

That’s a billy bargain.

Its mega this! maybe you should hold onto it, your soooooo close to sorting it.

[chompy_snake]

I wouldn't be happy taking a hit that hard on it if it was mine. Will get hand snatched off at that price 

[purplebargeken]

 

Bastard Dieselkraftstoff Scheiße vom teuflischen Selbstfixierverhalten

I believe this should cover it. 

[purplebargeken]

Roughly translated (kind of) 

Bastard diesel fuel shit of the devil self fixing behaviour

[vulgalour]

@Danterzza I've been trying to sort this since frigging APRIL.  I have no idea what's causing the problem now and I'm done with it.  Someone else can deal with it.  Hopefully the low price will get it with someone that fancies a go and I can put the funds into the Lanchester.

[bangernomics]

How long could you hold onto this if it was paid for?

[vulgalour]

SOLD!

Pleasingly hasslefree interaction with another shiter.  I'll let them out themselves if they wish.  BX seemed to like them at any rate and behaved itself for the test drive etc.  I feel like it's going to a good home, and that's all that really matters.

[vulgalour]

@bangernomics sorry you missed out on this one, I think I priced it too cheap, people were keen!

[MJK 24]

Sorry to see this go.  I’ve enjoyed reading about it here and elsewhere.

I am a bit obsessed about old mechanically injected diesels!  Hopefully the next person will keep us updated.

[SmokinWaffle]

On 8/6/2020 at 7:30 PM, MJK 24 said:

Sorry to see this go.  I’ve enjoyed reading about it here and elsewhere.

I am a bit obsessed about old mechanically injected diesels!  Hopefully the next person will keep us updated.

And keep you updated I will!

Apart from running it for the past two months I've not really done much apart from enjoy it (and replace a glow plug relay that wasn't in great shape). It hasn't had any issues (touch wood) with idling in around 1000 miles or so if not more (ish? I didn't count) - and I've been using it daily. It's been a very good car for me and I really do adore it.

I replaced the Hydraulic pump belt a couple weeks ago as it was slipping like nobodies business and causing the pump to squeal / stop rotating under load.  £7 from chevronics. Good thing I did as it was very perished. The mounting bolt thing was also very loose so the pump was moving 3 - 5CM back and fourth (probably didn't help) as the car moved around. Retightened it all and aligned it with the cam, happy days.

Today was a day of many little things and niggles in prep for the MOT next week - first time I've serviced one of my own cars myself (with my dads help)

Fixed the mounting bracket on the RHS for the indicator after it flew off on the motorway the other week and was lost forever (thankfully on the way to rip apart another BX which had a good one on it.) Looks like it had a chunk taken out of it / has had a front end knock at some point - probably why it never quite aligned for @vulgalour - as the headlight mounting/metal was kinked back and the paint is crazed/weird.
 

Pulled that out, made & riveted on a bit of metal to make up for the missing chunk and mounted the indicator with a new bolt:

Also lopped off the dodgy, intermittent and brittle sidelight connector and just put two connectors on it instead - you can see it in that pic. Rear view:

The other indicator was also very loose the other week and it turned out that the mounting bolt seems to have previously snapped and been repaired and was now broken again. I superglued it and it worked- but noticed it was a bit pissed today. Good thing I took it out and checked it as the superglue was holding on by the tiniest little bit and it was close to falling out and meeting a similar fate to the other indicator that went missing.

Redid it with some metal putty stuff:

Dries rock hard and can be drilled, grinded ect so that should keep it in place for a little while.

Had to make up a little drive tool to take out the sump plug as it was some weird size:

Good to have someone who is very handy and has many tools. Been a HGV mechanic all his life and always has a solution.

Gave it some new SemiSynth 10W40 and a Mann filter once we'd got it drained. It's a little more refined on the motorway now which is always nice and sounds a bit happier overall. It wasn't due a change on miles, but it's been nearly a year and a half so probably best.

Also recently had the low coolant light coming on and off randomly, it had a cable tie holding up one of the wires and I took that off and all seemed well until a week later when it came back. Took apart the plug (very cool, had a flippable bit to easily take out the contacts) and found one wire hanging on by pretty much nothing. Re cut and crimped it back in place, put it all back together and no more horrible stop light. Picture below is when the other wire basically just fell out.

Also fitted a new rear washer pump and one way valve as the previous pump gave up the ghost. Was a universal fit one but does the job lovely and fits in the gap where the old one did.

Tightened the alternator belt and it's mounting bracket as it started to squeal the other day.

Also gave it new indicator bulbs and sidelights, all ready for it's MOT next week sometime, fingers crossed.

Oh, I also fitted a bluetooth stereo with a nicely hidden microphone the other day as I'm dailying it, the old tape deck did work but gradually got quieter and quieter until it was useless:

Looks whack and too bright there - but the camera made it look weird. Actually looks quite swish and covered with the panel when not in use/I don't want to change it to keep the retro look. It's a really nice one, £95 new and I got it for a tenner, used once. Crazy.

Had to wire it into a switched live instead of a permanent one to make it come on / off with the ignition - but that was easy enough.

Wired the old one up to a spare computer PSU I had in the office with some messing around - now I just need some speakers for a cool new office radio:

I'll keep this thread updated when I do work on it/when stuff happens so I have a record, and it's fun to know what happens between different owners.

[vulgalour]

I never thought to open up that coolant light plug, I wish I had now!  Ah well, at least you found what was causing the issue.  Seems like you're spotting all the bits and bobs before they become headaches, best way really.  I wonder why the old head unit got quieter like that, maybe that's what it was doing on long drives, I just assumed it was me having to turn it up to balance out the road noise so maybe it wasn't.  All good stuff anyway, good luck with the MoT!

[SmokinWaffle]

On 10/25/2020 at 12:34 AM, vulgalour said:

I never thought to open up that coolant light plug, I wish I had now!  Ah well, at least you found what was causing the issue.  Seems like you're spotting all the bits and bobs before they become headaches, best way really.  I wonder why the old head unit got quieter like that, maybe that's what it was doing on long drives, I just assumed it was me having to turn it up to balance out the road noise so maybe it wasn't.  All good stuff anyway, good luck with the MoT!

I was surprised when it actually opened up on a hinge, cool design.

Thank you! I did a 3 hour drive last night (only 25 miles or so - but long periods of idling 30 mins+, never turned off the engine during the entire trip) - absolutely faultless

[vulgalour]

1 hour ago, SmokinWaffle said:

 I did a 3 hour drive last night (only 25 miles or so - but long periods of idling 30 mins+, never turned off the engine during the entire trip) - absolutely faultless

Oh sure, rub in how reliable it is for you.  *grumblegrumble*

[SmokinWaffle]

Gave it to my trusty mechanic last night to do the MOT today - had a bit of a fluff when he drove it this morning as the wire to the Fuel pump solenoid (?) decided to catch fire/melt and took some other wires with it, smoke from the bay and car cut out mid drive and was pushed into a car park for a repair.

 

Waiting to check it passes the MOT before a proper rerunning/rewire of the messed up cables as it's bodged to get back to his garage at the moment - but hopefully all will be okay. Fingers crossed. Prayers / goat sacrifice / ancient rituals of luck appreciated.

[SmokinWaffle]

Happy days - it lives another year!

I'll do that boot when it stops raining for more than 3.5 seconds.

[vulgalour]

Eek at the fire news!  Hooray at the MoT pass news.

[SmokinWaffle]

Cheers @vulgalour- and what a title change.