ULEZ

[Guest Hooli]

It won't be the scrappies rubbing their hands together it will be the exporters..

 

yup. Because saving* the planet means moving the pollution elsewhere, I guess it must enter a different  ecosystem that way.

[Wingz123]

^^^ I was thinking exactly the same - there’ll be more cars heading out to Poland and Romania

[rusty998]

Ah Mr Khan says it's got to happen to save people from the poor air quality,

But backed the Heathrow expansion, I'm sure that the aircraft leaving Heathrow every 20 seconds don't throw out any pollutants at all,

The next town to me has the lowest air quality of any town in Britain, It is also under the main flight path to and from Heathrow,

We shall be moving in a couple of years once our last ankle biter finishes secondary school

[Fabergé Greggs]

yup. Because saving* the planet means moving the pollution elsewhere, I guess it must enter a different ecosystem that way.

I think it’s more about improving the air quality in the most densely populated area of the county.

 

I’ve said it before here and I’ll say it again- I work in central London and it’s fucking rank. Though I’m highly peeved about the restrictions that it brings to my fleet, I’m glad that something is being done.

[Guest Hooli]

I worked in the centre of London for a week years ago, it was rank then & the traffic filth was only a small part of that.

[wuvvum]

I'm not sure about it being expanded to other cities.  Isn't a lot of the pressure to clean up the air in London coming from EU air quality rules?  They won't be an issue for much longer.

[angle]

As someone who used to work for Tfl and knows a lot of the people who are working on the ULEZ - there are definitely no plans to extend it to the M25 and I really doubt there will be any time soon (except for possibly around Heathrow) - the politics of it just don't stack up.

 

Bristol are planning one though...

[uk_senator]

As someone who used to work for Tfl and knows a lot of the people who are working on the ULEZ - there are definitely no plans to extend it to the M25 and I really doubt there will be any time soon (except for possibly around Heathrow) - the politics of it just don't stack up.

 

Possibly some relief, as I`ll be able to keep my cars at mine, but wont be able to work in the garage (at my parents, literally just inside the A406), or visit family & friends. That said, they move the goalposts when they feel like it, so I still can't relax..

 

I`ll probably buy something historically exempt & disgustingly polluting to get round it, just to be bloody minded. Feck em.

[willswitchengage]

What about those of us who routinely carry bootfulls of tools & car parts? What about those of us with 2 kids? What about those of us who cant ride a bike? What about when you have to take your 2 kids & parents across London twice a year to 10 relatives with presents & food? How practical is cycling then?

 

See, this "well, you have to be a numpty to drive in London" stuff basically stinks of "I`m alright Jack, sod everyone else".

 

 

Now now, don't be mean. See where I wrote 'where practicable'...

 

Obviously many scenarios do warrant use of a car. Mine is currently loaded up with crap to take to the council dump tomorrow, for instance. However, many don't, and if cars weren't used for them then you'd obviously have a much smoother journey as they wouldn't be on the road.

 

 

 

 

Ah Mr Khan says it's got to happen to save people from the poor air quality, 

But backed the Heathrow expansion, I'm sure that the aircraft leaving Heathrow every 20 seconds don't throw out any pollutants at all, 

The next town to me has the lowest air quality of any town in Britain, It is also under the main flight path to and from Heathrow, 

We shall be moving in a couple of years once our last ankle biter finishes secondary school 

 

Living nearby I always used to be a Heathrow-hater myself - mainly because of the noise, but the pollution didn't help. The 'London's single biggest polluter' argument is obviously a strong one against expansion, but unfortunately a bit of clever wordsmithing. Using the 'death by a thousand cuts' philosophy, the road vehicle remains by and large the biggest polluter in London. Let's look at a map:

 

 

Whilst it's not complete you can see the huge difference between pollution levels at the M25 and within zone 1. Oddly though this map does corroborate that expanding the ULEZ outside the outer circle, or maybe even the inner circle, is probably not worth the effort. From a purely practical perspective at least the inner circle already has the Orwellian monitoring infrastructure required - expansion outside this zone would require many more cameras for enforcement.

[lesapandre]

Worth remembering that  some of the highest pollution levels are inside vehicles in the high NO2 areas. So its drivers as well as the city that will eventally benefit. 

[Marm Toastsmith]

I think it’s more about improving the air quality in the most densely populated area of the county.

 

I’ve said it before here and I’ll say it again- I work in central London and it’s fucking rank. Though I’m highly peeved about the restrictions that it brings to my fleet, I’m glad that something is being done.

 

I'm with you. The air is awful here in Haringey and it's depressing that my kids have to breathe it every day.

 

For me it's a case of make the most of the current situation while I can. Although I'm peeved that my neighbours V8 diesel Audi is compliant whereas my little 205 is not... Especially as they drive daily while I cycle. But then this sort of stuff is rarely fair.

[SiC]

Ken. This could be a perfect blessing as another thing to convince your wife that moving out of the big smoke is a good idea.

[SiC]

As someone who used to work for Tfl and knows a lot of the people who are working on the ULEZ - there are definitely no plans to extend it to the M25 and I really doubt there will be any time soon (except for possibly around Heathrow) - the politics of it just don't stack up.

 

Bristol are planning one though...

As a cyclist who frequents Bristol centre, I'll be very glad when there is one. If the very least clears out some of the disgusting pre DPF buses and knackered injector Transits out. Really is not pleasant having a massive black cloud of soot being puked out of those exhausts into your face.

 

From what happened been said so far though in the local press, it appears to not be as strict as ULEZ? Post 2005 will be ok but diesels will be Euro 6 or something?

[Isaac Hunt]

Fekkin nuisance. I don't drive inside the M25 that much, but have ventured in a few times lately. No far enough in for the congestion charge, but did see signed for LEZ. I assumed I was legit in the latest spec dirty diesel but folk me it is gonna be a challenge.

 

 

Fail to meet the ULEZ criteria, cross the congestion charge zone, run a speed camera, take in the Dartford Crossing on the way out and miss the payment deadline and kinell you'd be about a grand down on a trip to town.

[purplebargeken]

Ken. This could be a perfect blessing as another thing to convince your wife that moving out of the big smoke is a good idea.

 

Doubt it, she didn't seem that fussed about it. I guess she will when she will have to sell her Micra which will mean that Ben will have to hunt for a parking space in the same postcode like I do. Micra is a bit of a 'space saver'.

 

It might hit home then. I do hope so. 

[SiC]

Ken. This could be a perfect blessing as another thing to convince your wife that moving out of the big smoke is a good idea.

 

Doubt it, she didn't seem that fussed about it. I guess she will when she will have to sell her Micra which will mean that Ben will have to hunt for a parking space in the same postcode like I do. Micra is a bit of a 'space saver'.

 

It might hit home then. I do hope so.

Don't have to sell it. Just have to remind her that everytime going for a drive it will require a rather large fee to Mr Kahn! But then it might mean you'll/she'll just get a brand new car on finance.

[Wingz123]

Euro 6 came about 2014 onwards in diesels so gives you an idea of age of car allowed.

[purplebargeken]

Don't have to sell it. Just have to remind her that everytime going for a drive it will require a rather large fee to Mr Kahn! But then it might mean you'll/she'll just get a brand new car on finance. 

 

It just sits outside the house 99.99999999999999% of the time.

[Marm Toastsmith]

Ken. This could be a perfect blessing as another thing to convince your wife that moving out of the big smoke is a good idea.

 

It's one of the reasons why I'm considering moving out of London... perhaps slightly ironic that the pollution is another reason.

[purplebargeken]

I'd have moved a long time ago. Mrs PBK on the other hand.......

[angle]

As a cyclist who frequents Bristol centre, I'll be very glad when there is one. If the very least clears out some of the disgusting pre DPF buses and knackered injector Transits out. Really is not pleasant having a massive black cloud of soot being puked out of those exhausts into your face.

 

From what happened been said so far though in the local press, it appears to not be as strict as ULEZ? Post 2005 will be ok but diesels will be Euro 6 or something?

Same as the ULEZ - Euro 4 for petrol (anything registered from January 2006) and Euro 6 for diesel (September 2015), although some older cars will meet either because it depends on actual emissions, rather than registration date. You have to check your V5 though, amazingly given they'll be ANPR enforced there's no plate-based lookup system...

 

It'll be the same anywhere that's bringing one in though, it's funded through central government and that's the standard they want.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The main stealers will be rubbing their hands with glee.

 

 

As all the small garages in the ULEZ go out of business. Who will be Euro Car Parts and GSF's customers? The catastrophic stupidity of this idea is just staggering. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

I think we should have a Mayoral candidate for the Autoshite party, campaigning on a platform to tax electric vehicles, and to bring back concessions for old vehicles capable of running on leaded petrol.

[uk_senator]

Private car users? Well I do enough cycling in London - mainly the suburbs - to realise that you'd be a numpty to drive anywhere inside the outer circle. Have been forced to on a couple of instances and it's just hours of congestion, even at the weekend or at night.

 

Sucks for the motorcycle users though. My Kawasaki ER5 would need to pay the charge - I imagine that's the case for most/all non-injection bikes.

 

However an argument that most of the eco-car fanatics always forget is that great, you can replace all these old 'bangers' with electric cars and hybrids but you've still got the same amount of single occupancy vehicles clogging up infrastructure that will never be upgraded. The emphasis should be getting people walking, cycling and using the bus instead of driving, where practicable. Congestion is an utterly stupid inefficiency and no new roads are going to be made - so the fewer people using them the better.

 

 

Now now, don't be mean. See where I wrote 'where practicable'...

 

Obviously many scenarios do warrant use of a car. Mine is currently loaded up with crap to take to the council dump tomorrow, for instance. However, many don't, and if cars weren't used for them then you'd obviously have a much smoother journey as they wouldn't be on the road.

 

Living nearby I always used to be a Heathrow-hater myself - mainly because of the noise, but the pollution didn't help. The 'London's single biggest polluter' argument is obviously a strong one against expansion, but unfortunately a bit of clever wordsmithing. Using the 'death by a thousand cuts' philosophy, the road vehicle remains by and large the biggest polluter in London. Let's look at a map:

 

Whilst it's not complete you can see the huge difference between pollution levels at the M25 and within zone 1. Oddly though this map does corroborate that expanding the ULEZ outside the outer circle, or maybe even the inner circle, is probably not worth the effort. From a purely practical perspective at least the inner circle already has the Orwellian monitoring infrastructure required - expansion outside this zone would require many more cameras for enforcement.

I`m not being mean, I`m just fed up of self-righteous cyclists who can't see past the end of their noses thinking their solution is the only way forward, many of whom don't have families to deal with, many of whom have never done a `proper` blue collar job, having never done `proper` hours, having to commute half the distance many of us have to. You say anything against cycling or a cyclists behaviour on Twitter & you`ll quickly have 20-50 lycra clad, Mini Holland loving tossers jumping down your throat.

 

Single occupancy cars doesn't necessarily mean some ignorant selfish pricks driving it, it means at that stage you can only see 1 person in a car. You dont know whats in the boot, neither do you know what they're on their way to do.

 

Due to the costs & stress in city driving now, very few people drive in London for the fun of it. People who could cycle &/or use public transport, generally do, those that cant, dont, & drive, paying severely to do so, but thats still not good enough for some.

 

There's also the time constraints with public transport. it's not unusual for you to have to get 2 or even 3 busses to do a 7 mile commute, often taking 3 times the length of time as using a car, even factoring in traffic. Same with the tube, wanna go 10 miles round the edge of London on a tube? No, you have to get one into a central station, then go out on another line, sometimes with another tube in the middle between the 2 stations, again, taking an inordinate amount of time. Time many working Londoners, especially those with families, just don't have. And then theres a severe lack of tube coverage in south London..

 

London is spoilt for public transport in many respects, but for a city with so many residents who are having to commute further & further, it's just not working as well as it did/does on paper, especially if you have a family & don't want to spend 2-4 hours a day commuting. People need a life balance, or there's no point.

 

There's loads of working class parents who are out the door at 6-7am, not seeing their kids in the morning, commuting for 60-90 minutes into work, significantly more if house prices & rents have pushed them out to the home counties, doing a full day, not getting home till 7-9pm by which time they're exhausted. The kids have had no one watching over them & many get into all kinds of trouble or fall behind educationally because of it, they invariably don't get a proper, home cooked meal (later leading to obesity & other assorted health issues, putting pressure on the NHS). Is this life?

 

It's all very well pointing fingers at cars for all of society's ills, but the whole British way of lifes been getting increasingly fukt over the last 40 years in so many different ways, increased traffic, especially in London, is just one of many side effects. And it was entirely predictable. Maybe if the entire UK's manufacturing sector hadnt been spunked away so easily & completely, maybe there wouldn't be such a massive influx of Brits having to move to the south east, overwhelming the roads, as well as the NHS & public transport, pushing up housing costs to the point of it not being feasible, which, like an ever decreasing circle, causes more people to move to the home counties & then commute in even further..

 

The idiocy of the whole situation blows my mind. 

 

And now we`ve got Brexit, which is quite possibly going to cause a fair number of the remaining global manufacturing companies with plants in the UK (& NOT in south east) to do the off. Then what?

 

The Specials had it right, this town, is coming like a ghost town.. And when I say town, I mean the entire UK. Apart from London. London will have to be entirely covered by 150 floor blocks to house everyone moving here in search of jobs that wouldn't pay enough to live within 50 miles of them anyway, with everyone doing a 6 hour each way commute on a sea of electric scooters doing 2.5mph...

 

As I said, I was with them when it was going to affect diesels, because I know the science behind it & how catastrophic diesel fumes are to life, petrol is very much the lesser of 2 evils to human health. Not ideal, but much better. But then they moved the goal posts, at that point I said I`m out..

 

On top of that there's the fact 1.6 million perfectly serviceable cars that`ll have to replaced, many being scrapped for no good reason. Many will be replaced with PCP/contracted cars that get replaced every 2-3 years. What's that going to do to the environment globally? More raw materials, more manufacturing energy used, more multi-level transportation, of raw materials & finally finished vehicles. And that's for vehicles that are unlikely to last as long as the vehicles that have been scrapped.. And people just don't look after PCP cars like they do their own, reducing their working lives even further.

 

And personally the worst tangible pollution I actually smell on a daily basis is from diesel 4x4`s & people carriers, many of them less than a few years old, & they aren't affected by all this bollocks.

 

Christ. Have I gone off on enough tangents? Painted a bleak enough picture? I knew I shouldn't have had a shandy with my dinner..

 

My mouse is hovering over the "Post" button....Should I post this? Sod it, I'll post it.. Most people won't bother reading a quarter of what I said anyway..

[Uncle Jimmy]

Unless Jeremy Clarkson considers running for mayor I don't think it'll make any difference somehow!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

 

 

I`m not being mean, I`m just fed up of self-righteous cyclists who can't see past the end of their noses thinking their solution is the only way forward, many of whom don't have families to deal with, many of whom have never done a `proper` blue collar job, having never done `proper` hours, having to commute half the distance many of us have to. You say anything against cycling or a cyclists behaviour on Twitter & you`ll quickly have 20-50 lycra clad, little Holland loving tossers jumping down your throat.

 

Single occupancy cars doesn't necessarily mean some ignorant selfish pricks driving it, it means at that stage you can only see 1 person in a car. You dont know whats in the boot, neither do you know what they're on their way to do.

 

Due to the costs & stress in city driving now, very few people drive in London for the fun of it. People who could cycle &/or use public transport, generally do, those that cant, dont, & pay severely to do so, but thats still not good enough for some.

 

There's also the time constraints with public transport. it's not unusual for you to have to get 2 or even 3 busses to do a 7 mile commute, often taking 3 times the length of time as using a car, even factoring in traffic. Same with the tube, wanna go 10 miles round the edge of London on a tube? No, you have to get one into a central station, then go out on another line, sometimes with another tube in the middle between the 2 stations, again, taking an inordinate amount of time. Time many working Londoners, especially those with families, just don't have. And then theres a severe lack of tube coverage in south London..

 

London is spoilt for public transport in many respects, but for a city with so many residents who are having to commute further & further, it's just not working as well as it did/does on paper, especially if you have a family & don't want to spend 2-4 hours a day commuting. People need a life balance, or there's no point.

 

There's loads of working class parents who are out the door at 6-7am, not seeing their kids in the morning, commuting for 60-90 minutes into work, significantly more if house prices & rents have pushed them out to the home counties, doing a full day, not getting home till 7-9pm by which time they're exhausted. The kids have had no one watching over them & many get into all kinds of trouble or fall behind educationally because of it, they invariably don't get a proper, home cooked meal (later leading to obesity & other assorted health issues, putting pressure on the NHS). Is this life?

 

It's all very well pointing fingers at cars for all of society's ills, but the whole British way of lifes been getting increasingly fukt over the last 40 years in so many different ways, increased traffic, especially in London, is just one of many side effects. And it was entirely predictable. Maybe if the entire UK's manufacturing sector hadnt been spunked away so easily & completely, maybe there wouldn't be such a massive influx of Brits having to move to the south east, overwhelming the roads, as well as the NHS & public transport, pushing up housing costs to the point of it not being feasible, which, like an ever decreasing circle, causes more people to move to the home counties & then commute in even further..

 

The idiocy of the whole situation blows my mind. 

 

And now we`ve got Brexit, which is quite possibly going to cause a fair number of the remaining global manufacturing companies with plants in the UK (& NOT in south east) to do the off. Then what?

 

The Specials had it right, this town, is coming like a ghost town.. And when I say town, I mean the entire UK. Apart from London. London will have to be entirely covered by 150 floor blocks to house everyone moving here in search of jobs that wouldn't pay enough to live within 50 miles of them anyway, with everyone doing a 6 hour each way commute on a sea of electric scooters doing 2.5mph...

 

As I said, I was with them when it was going to affect diesels, because I know the science behind it & how catastrophic diesel fumes are to life, petrol is very much the lesser of 2 evils to human health. Not ideal, but much better. But then they moved the goal posts, at that point I said I`m out..

 

On top of that there's the fact 1.6 million perfectly serviceable cars that`ll have to replaced, many being scrapped for no good reason. Many will be replaced with PCP/contracted cars that get replaced every 2-3 years. What's that going to do to the environment globally? More raw materials, more manufacturing energy used, more multi-level transportation, of raw materials & finally finished vehicles. And that's for vehicles that are unlikely to last as long as the vehicles that have been scrapped.. And people just don't look after PCP cars like they do their own, reducing their working lives even further.

 

And personally the worst tangible pollution I actually smell on a daily basis is from diesel 4x4`s & people carriers, many of them less than a few years old, & they aren't affected by all this bollocks.

 

Christ. Have I gone off on enough tangents? Painted a bleak enough picture? I knew I shouldn't have had a shandy with my dinner..

 

My mouse is hovering over the "Post" button....Should I post this? Sod it, I'll post it.. Most people won't bother reading a quarter of what I said anyway..

 

 

And you're quite right. But due to rubbish TV, government/media lies and smokescreens etc a very large proportion of the population just can't see what's happening. Or they don't care.

 

 

 

They fucking well will in 10 years time though. When they're 40 years old with a wife, two kids, a never ending mortgage to some abysmal Barratt home that's already falling to bits and you spend 20% of your life in a Renault Craptur commuting to some job that pays just enough to cover your bills. This is is gonna be some place your kidz will inherit. 

 

Personally, if I had kids under 8, I'd be fucking off out of the UK now. I don't so I can stay here to the bitter end! 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

..This is is gonna be some place your kidz will inherit.

...assuming, of course, that a future Corbyn/Momentum government* hasn't seized the lot before then.

[drivewaymyway]

What boils my piss about all this congestion charge and female porn is that small one man band business, trades, suppliers and folks like couriers get pushed out because the charge is either unaffordable or the vehicles needed are so new that a replacement isn't viable, now you might say "that's the fault of the business / trader etc" well the customer is the loser, that's you and me because the business using the services now have much less choice and the only choice is to use a Corporate, this means the big companies get bigger and the small companies get wiped out.. The city Centre then gets filled up with corporate type business like Wagamamas Giraffe, Nationals and Multi nationals etc..  

 To own a car inside these Zones mean a new vehicle needs to be bought regularly, which means a larger salary and if you are retired or on another source of income you are forced to move farther away from the area that you have grown up in and now you need to travel to the shops whereas they were on your doorstep, if you do a job that pays minimum you now need to commute which obviously you now can't afford to do, so now you have no income at all, so who IS going to do the low paid jobs ?? The only winners here are the car Manufacturers, the rich will always buy a new car to stay in the area they work because they can afford it, others will chuck a new car on credit, you can see the sickening fact here can't you ?? Yup, London is being gentrified one house at a time, no longer will people of different skills / salaries / family sizes  live in the same streets, whole areas will be lived in by the same clone of each other, this will be called banker belt, it already exists, this country is turning into 'them and us'..  The idea might be 'get rid of the car' but that will never happen, if that's what they wanted they could just fill the streets with busses and trams and ban anything else.. they haven't done this... The car user is still a massive cash cow for the treasury, they just need everyone to buy a new car every couple of years because Dino juice is being phased out, up to today a car can be kept running for as long as the owner / user is capable of fixing it, battery cars are impossible to fix by the user, they have a massive Achilies heal, it's the battery, these are going to have to be replaced every 5 years or so at an extortionate cost  which is going to write them off and a new car will be purchased, this is not practical for the 'Normal' user so we are the ones that suffer, not those in Banker belt who live close enough to work to afford the commute, we will be shoved out of Cities where the air quality will be poor because that's where the non battery cars will be, that's assuming there are some places to live that the Bankers don't own and leave empty..

 

  WE NEED A REVOLUTION !! SHITTERS REVOLT !! WE NEED OUR FREEDOM BACK TO BE SHITTERS, BE SHITTERS WHEN WE WANT !! DON'T WANT TO BE PUSHED AROUND ANYMORE, SHITTERS STICK TOGETHER.. !!

[Marm Toastsmith]

Hold on a minute guys...

 

A Euro 5 petrol car is post 2005. When the ULEZ expansion comes in in 2021 those cars will be 16 years old. And if you're brave, pre 1981 cars will also be exempt.

 

Sounds alright to me really. That encompasses a reasonable amount of sub £1000 chod. I know I won't have any trouble finding a car I want and can afford. When is there ever a shortage of cars to buy?

 

And it's not as if all the non ULEZ compliant cars will be immediately scrapped. Most of them will have left London in advance of the change anyway - people are gearing up already. The non compliant cars will still be perfectly usable outside of London.

 

I got cross when I first heard about it but at the end of the day I'm really not that bothered. Obvs it's not a perfect solution, but they have to do something.

 

And another thing. Loads of people DO drive in London simply because they're too lazy to walk/ride a bike/get a bus/whatever. I get that not everyone has a choice, and I'm not perfect, but some people just prefer sitting in their cars, even if they're not going anywhere. Air con/stereo etc. They'll admit it...

[New POD]

As all the small garages in the ULEZ go out of business. Who will be Euro Car Parts and GSF's customers? The catastrophic stupidity of this idea is just staggering.

The law of unintended consequences