invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

I would suggest using the handbrake as a guide to help make it easier to tell what state of adjustment it is in with the belt drag.typically this is something I have "the feel" for ,like tuning carbs and engines by ear,but you are too far for me to do it. I would suggest one way may be to tighten the adjusters until the wheel is locked,then back off the same amount both sides,say one full turn.assuming the wheels are then free to rotate (with belt drag) pull the hand brake on in increments and compare how many clicks it is to what it was before,to get an idea of how much tighter the shoes are to the drums. As you know not having enough free play can cause the brakes to bind when hot.

those are some good ideas and thoughts like this crossed my mind, but what I am unsure about is, how would uneven wear of the brake shoes effect things if at all? one side did feel a fair bit different to the other (I am quite tempted to take the wheels and drums off to see how much meat is on the shoes anyhow, but im also a bit weary of doing that given the finest cheese Model 70 wheel studs appear to be made from and im not sure I want to tempt fate atm!)

on the handbrake front again a similar(ish) thought crossed my mind I dont know 100% if the handbrake is apply equal force to both rear brakes at the same time when ya pull on the handle, I think in theory it should be doing so, but I am not sure how one could tell in actuality (I mean you could pull on the handbrake and see if the car pulls to one side, which was one of the reasons I was trying the handbrake at speed, but that would rely on the brakes themselves being well adjusted in the first place,  so its a bit of a Catch 22!) , as I said to @egg at the time while I was pondering these things, I wonder if it would be worth me popping down to an MOT station and asking if I could book a session on their brake roller, but I have no idea how that actually works, if you could use it for actually adjusting the brakes etc LOL and that feels a bit overkill/impractical also.

but ill keep in mind your (and everyone else's) ideas for tomorrow  I am feeling quite a bit better of things, now I have better understanding of whats going on exactly when you turn the adjuster, and now understand why things felt/where behaving the way they where 

[plasticvandan]

Uneven wear in the shoes is irrelevant as that is what the adjuster is for,is,if one side had been a bit more worn than the other,adjust the shoes so the both have the same clearance after being locked takes that into account. I know that makes it sound simpler than it is. Likewise the handbrake should*be actng equally on both rear wheels,but invariably there will be some variance.

Of course a sure test is tomslam the brakes on with a loose grip on the tiller and see if it pulls up straight.

[plasticvandan]

19 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

those are some good ideas and thoughts like this crossed my mind, but what I am unsure about is, how would uneven wear of the brake shoes effect things if at all? one side did feel a fair bit different to the other (I am quite tempted to take the wheels and drums off to see how much meat is on the shoes anyhow, but im also a bit weary of doing that given the finest cheese Model 70 wheel studs appear to be made from and im not sure I want to tempt fate atm!)

on the handbrake front again a similar(ish) thought crossed my mind I dont know 100% if the handbrake is apply equal force to both rear brakes at the same time when ya pull on the handle, I think in theory it should be doing so, but I am not sure how one could tell in actuality (I mean you could pull on the handbrake and see if the car pulls to one side, which was one of the reasons I was trying the handbrake at speed, but that would rely on the brakes themselves being well adjusted in the first place,  so its a bit of a Catch 22!) , as I said to @egg at the time while I was pondering these things, I wonder if it would be worth me popping down to an MOT station and asking if I could book a session on their brake roller, but I have no idea how that actually works, if you could use it for actually adjusting the brakes etc LOL and that feels a bit overkill/impractical also.

but ill keep in mind your (and everyone else's) ideas for tomorrow  I am feeling quite a bit better of things, now I have better understanding of whats going on exactly when you turn the adjuster, and now understand why things felt/where behaving the way they where 

From memory CVT vehicles cannot use brake rollers,as it will damage them! PERHAPS the solution will be to really get the brakes spot on when you get the belt changed,IE adjust them up while it's off,presumably that would be disengaging drive then to the wheels.Had a friend with a DAF and the brake test had to be done with the old tapley meter and road test.

[Andrew353w]

10 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

From memory CVT vehicles cannot use brake rollers,as it will damage them! PERHAPS the solution will be to really get the brakes spot on when you get the belt changed,IE adjust them up while it's off,presumably that would be disengaging drive then to the wheels.Had a friend with a DAF and the brake test had to be done with the old tapley meter and road test.

100% CORRECT! Old M.O.T. testers' books specifically stated this, but with the demise of Dafs from the roads this advice has now been deleted, and it's up to owners to explain this to the tester. My tester says he likes testing my Daf as he then knows his Tapely meter is working! 

[brummiejon]

Hi all.... Apologies for going off the recent and interesting topic... Some exiting news.... After a 3 year battle and endless writing and research, Flo, my Argson Electric has a V5..... Interestingly, the DVLA would only let me register with an age related plate, but the plate they have issued me is her original plate number.... So by the back door, I have retained the original number plate..... What a relief....

So the plates are going on today (the original ones).....

Can anyone recommend a suitable insurance company?

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, brummiejon said:

Hi all.... Apologies for going off the recent and interesting topic... Some exiting news.... After a 3 year battle and endless writing and research, Flo, my Argson Electric has a V5..... Interestingly, the DVLA would only let me register with an age related plate, but the plate they have issued me is her original plate number.... So by the back door, I have retained the original number plate..... What a relief....

So the plates are going on today (the original ones).....

Can anyone recommend a suitable insurance company?

indeed! its quite Awesome to see that the DVLA finally stopped messing about/prevaricate about the bush (for the most part), and got Flo Properly registered  

 

for insurance I have had good luck with BikeSure they are who REV is insured with, she is insured as an every-day vehicle, its explicitly not any sort of classic policy, but just a regular trike policy with no strings attached, and I have full breakdown cover included too, even covers me for trips abroad  

so if Flo is to be used regularly/as your only vehicle, thats who I would recommend  although I imagine Flo is probably kept in a garage, so you might have some luck with the Classic insurance people like Hagerty (I know of a couple Model 70's insured with them) etc, although some as well as garaging also require you to have another vehicle thats on an every-day policy, so if Flo is your only vehicle your milage may vary when getting a classic policy

but REV's regular policy is only a few hundred quid a year, for street parking in Central London, so even if you cant get a classic policy for Flo I imagine a regular policy wont be too much  

just make sure you nail home the point, that she *is* an Invalid Carriage, by the letter of the law, just make sure they are aware of that

 

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of Ye Olde Carriages, I had another stab at REV's brakes with my brother kindly popping down to help with the heavy lifting like egg very kindly did a couple days ago 

armed with the extra knowledge from the most recent posts, I was able to (with the wheels off the ground) get the handbrake to lock the wheels with 6 clicks of the ratchet, beforehand it was 8 clicks, tbh the brakes still feel the same as they did previously, but the fact I have taken a couple clicks out the handbrake travel obviously shows there was a little bit of adjustment needed

on the front wheel, just as a sanity check, I have currently got it adjusted so that with the front up in the air you can give it a flick and it will spin round quite freely about twice before coming to a stop on the 3rd go round where it stops on the high point of the shoes (or would that be the low point in the drum?), as I understand it thats how you want it, but figured cant hurt to just mention it incase I am mistaken

either way things seem to be working good, although I still cant lock the wheels with the handbrake my brother verified I was locking up the rear wheels  with the hydraulic brake, so ill take that!  

we did briefly look at fitting the relay kit and I managed to actually get the nearside trim ring off that headlight and inspect its hardware (having previously done the offside one a little while back) but I was quite knackered at that point, so I made the decision to leave that for next time

I did manage to remember tho to measure up the dimensions of the windscreen so I know how much windscreen seal to order for when I do that job, and I also measured up the diameter of the throttle cable inner, I would like to keep a length of that on hand in the car given that Model 70's do like to eat throttle cables!

all in all a pretty good day, and although things dont feel any different, the fact the handbrake is a couple clicks shorter now ill take that as a win/a sign of having actually managed to do something LOL

and at the end of everything, I did go for a 1.5 mile jaunt around the block, and none of the brakes felt hot/nothing felt like it was binding, so hopefully alls good on that front! its been an interesting learning experience if nothing else  

[Mrs6C]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

its been an interesting learning experience if nothing else  

Absolutely! This is how most of us learn to do things on our vehicles. We read up, look at diagrams, ask advice from people who have the knowledge and experience and then have a go ourselves. It's great that you are able to 'join the club' at last, with REV.

[brummiejon]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

speaking of Ye Olde Carriages, I had another stab at REV's brakes with my brother kindly popping down to help with the heavy lifting like egg very kindly did a couple days ago 

armed with the extra knowledge from the most recent posts, I was able to (with the wheels off the ground) get the handbrake to lock the wheels with 6 clicks of the ratchet, before it was 8 clicks, tbh the brakes still feel the same as they did previously, but the fact I have taken a couple clicks out the handbrake travel obviously shows there was a little bit of adjustment needed

on the front wheel, just as a sanity check, I have currently got it adjusted so that with the front up in the air you can give it a flick and it will spin round quite freely about twice before coming to a stop on the 3rd go round where it stops on the high point of the shoes (or would that be the low point in the drum?), as I understand it thats how you want it, but figured cant hurt to just mention it incase I am mistaken

either way things seem to be working good, although I still cant lock the wheels with the handbrake my brother verified I was locking up the rear wheels  with the hydraulic brake, so ill take that!  

we did briefly look at fitting the relay kit and I managed to actually get the nearside trim ring off that headlight and inspect its hardware (having previously done the offside one a little while back) but I was quite knackered at that point, so I made the decision to leave that for next time

I did manage to remember tho to measure up the dimensions of the windscreen so I know how much windscreen seal to order for when I do that job, and I also measured up the diameter of the throttle cable inner, I would like to keep a length of that on hand in the car given that Model 70's do like to eat throttle cables!

all in all a pretty good day, and although things dont feel any different, the fact the handbrake is a couple clicks shorter now ill take that as a win/a sign of having actually managed to do something LOL

and at the end of everything, I did go for a 1.5 mile jaunt around the block, and none of the brakes felt hot/nothing felt like it was binding, so hopefully alls good on that front! its been an interesting learning experience if nothing else  

While your on the subject of brakes, when you're brake shoes do need replacing, I throughy recommend having them relined with Green gripper linings. Far superior braking performance and better than just buying new shoes.... The company I use is

 https://saftek.co.uk/friction-products-for-classic-vehicles-and-race-applications/

I use green gripper on my motorcycle restorations and treated Flo to a set... It will increase your braking efficiency as if you'd done a disc brake conversion.

[egg]

@LightBulbFungood to hear, still pulling a bit to the left under heavy braking?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFungood to hear, still pulling a bit to the left under heavy braking?

I think a little bit, which is extra strange because when I set up the handbrake and got it for 6 clicks it was the left nearside wheel that with a fair bit of effort you could still turn, ie was slightly looser then the right offside wheel which was completely locked up solid at that point, so why would it pull to the left under braking, if that left side showed to be the looser of the 2, I am not sure!

I have a recollection of someone mentioning REV pulling to the left a bit under hard breaking on the day I picked her up from the FoD (ie before we started fiddling with things) so whatever it is its long standing, I almost wonder if it might with the brake shoe materials themselves, maybe when you slam on, 1 set is just gripper then the other, its all the more reason to get the drums off at some point and have a look at things  

[RayMK]

41 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think a little bit, which is extra strange because when I set up the handbrake and got it for 6 clicks it was the left nearside wheel that with a fair bit of effort you could still turn, ie was slightly looser then the right offside wheel which was completely locked up solid at that point, so why would it pull to the left under braking, if that left side showed to be the looser of the 2, I am not sure!

I have a recollection of someone mentioning REV pulling to the left a bit under hard breaking on the day I picked her up from the FoD (ie before we started fiddling with things) so whatever it is its long standing, I almost wonder if it might with the brake shoe materials themselves, maybe when you slam on, 1 set is just gripper then the other, its all the more reason to get the drums off at some point and have a look at things  

It may be worth checking all of the suspension mountings as they can also cause alignment to change under braking if they are worn or corroded and have play or are flexing.  I know this because I was proudly demonstrating my Triumph Herald estate to my dad in the early 1980s when a dog ran out in front and I dabbed the brakes hard.  Afterwards, the rear steer on even light braking was interesting.  The right hand rear tie bar which had been brazed to an outrigger, not welded, had pulled away.  Rear wheel fore and aft location was then only by the transverse leaf spring and somewhat lax.

[Six-cylinder]

6 minutes ago, RayMK said:

It may be worth checking all of the suspension mountings as they can also cause alignment to change under braking if they are worn or corroded and have play or are flexing.  I know this because I was proudly demonstrating my Triumph Herald estate to my dad in the early 1980s when a dog ran out in front and I dabbed the brakes hard.  Afterwards, the rear steer on even light braking was interesting.  The right hand rear tie bar which had been brazed to an outrigger, not welded, had pulled away.  Rear wheel fore and aft location was then only by the transverse leaf spring and somewhat lax.

I have run Vitesse's since 1977 and sometimes in the early years I would get rear steer because a rear outrigger had rusted bad enough to crack away from the main chassis rail. Any goods parts store could get an outrigger for a Herald/Vitesse!

[RayMK]

Just now, Six-cylinder said:

I have run Vitesse's since 1977 and sometimes in the early years I would get rear steer because a rear outrigger had rusted bad enough to crack away from the main chassis rail. Any goods parts store could get an outrigger for a Herald/Vitesse!

That has jogged my memory.  It was a replacement outrigger that the previous owner had brazed on to the chassis.  The tie bar had partialy pulled the outrigger off the chassis. I had it welded back on and all was well.

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, RayMK said:

It may be worth checking all of the suspension mountings as they can also cause alignment to change under braking if they are worn or corroded and have play or are flexing.  I know this because I was proudly demonstrating my Triumph Herald estate to my dad in the early 1980s when a dog ran out in front and I dabbed the brakes hard.  Afterwards, the rear steer on even light braking was interesting.  The right hand rear tie bar which had been brazed to an outrigger, not welded, had pulled away.  Rear wheel fore and aft location was then only by the transverse leaf spring and somewhat lax.

funnily enough me and @egg where wondering about that, as REV's offside rear right spring has sagged quite a bit compared to the the offside left (although I dont *think* its broken, when REV went away I did mention this issue incase it was something more sinister and I was told its just a tired spring, and I detect no clunking or otherwise undue noises from that corner) so we where wondering if that would affect braking, but theres no front and back movement (I think things would have to be quite badly messed up for that to happen on semi-trailing arms?)

[RayMK]

9 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

funnily enough me and @egg where wondering about that, as REV's offside rear right spring has sagged quite a bit compared to the the offside left (although I dont *think* its broken, when REV went away I did mention this issue incase it was something more sinister and I was told its just a tired spring, and I detect no clunking or otherwise undue noises from that corner) so we where wondering if that would affect braking, but theres no front and back movement (I think things would have to be quite badly messed up for that to happen on semi-trailing arms?)

If there is no obvious front/back movement it's a good sign that nothing too serious is going on, although the forces when braking are more than you can apply by hand - unless using leverage.  Differing suspension height left to right caused by a tired or broken spring could have a small effect on straight line running with semi trailing arms.  It depends on the designed-in geometry as to how much you might notice it.  Some semi trailing arms are closer to being trailing arms.  With those, there's very little change in toe-in or out with suspension deflection.  I can't  recall what the Invacar geometry is for the rear suspension but I'd be mainly checking condition of the metal bits,  integrity of bushes and correct tightness of suspension fittings rather than slight geometric effects.  If it's all secure and the pulling is very mild, just live with it.  I once had a Jawa 350 with a sidecar.  That had severe pulling to the right under braking (unbraked sidecar) and mild pulling to the left under acceleration*.  I got used to it after 50 miles.  No problem 🤣.

 

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, RayMK said:

If there is no obvious front/back movement it's a good sign that nothing too serious is going on, although the forces when braking are more than you can apply by hand - unless using leverage.  Differing suspension height left to right caused by a tired or broken spring could have a small effect on straight line running with semi trailing arms.  It depends on the designed-in geometry as to how much you might notice it.  Some semi trailing arms are closer to being trailing arms.  With those, there's very little change in toe-in or out with suspension deflection.  I can't  recall what the Invacar geometry is for the rear suspension but I'd be mainly checking condition of the metal bits,  integrity of bushes and correct tightness of suspension fittings rather than slight geometric effects.  If it's all secure and the pulling is very mild, just live with it.  I once had a Jawa 350 with a sidecar.  That had severe pulling to the right under braking (unbraked sidecar) and mild pulling to the left under acceleration*.  I got used to it after 50 miles.  No problem 🤣.

 

tis Fiat 500  (but re-drilled for 4x4 inch PCD and fitted with girling brakes and bespoke 7 inch drums) 

thankfully as you say, its quite liveable with, its quite correctable, its not trying to make me pirouette on the spot or anything like that  its only noticable when you do an emergency stop do you notice it and even then it seems almost dependent on the road surface (it seemed to want to pull more to the left on roads around the dead end rather then in the dead end itself, and I notice in the roads around the dead end I was able to get some quite impressive tyre screeching, but in the dead end itself it was much more of a gruff skidding if that makes sense!)

funnily enough this saggy spring thing is one of things that have made me wonder what the story was with REV in her past, as for a fair majority of the problems she has had, theres been exactly *that* part in the spares stash I got with her, it almost gives me the impression that her previous owner had gone over REV, noted down her issues,, got the parts to sort them all, but never actually got round to doing the job, for example in the spares stash I *do* have a set of Model 70 rear coil springs (which im quite pleased about, because although Fiat 500 springs and shocks probably would physically fit, the damping/spring rates would probably be all wrong, even the ministry themselves went through a couple different spring and a few damper changes for the rear suspension 

[RayMK]

Interesting.   It is quite common in suspension design to have conflicting geometry, particularly in modern multi-link designs.  The 'conflict' is usually deliberate in order to force a desirable characteristic under certain conditions e.g. passive rear steer to modify the vehicle's oversteer or understeer during cornering or often just to give varying compliance to improve ride characteristics.  Rubber bushes or in some cases flexure of a suspension component accommodates the conflict.  The Invacar semi trailing arms have a pivot axis which is not shared by the bushed pivot mountings  i.e. the axes extended from each of the two hinge points are not the same.  I wonder why?  Perhaps because Fiat did it that way.   The 'steeper' angle of the arms (the 'semi' bit of the equation) will give stronger resistance to roll than a more trailing set-up but also gives greater changes in camber and toe-in/toe- out when the arm is deflected.      

[Mrs6C]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

even then it seems almost dependent on the road surface (it seemed to want to pull more to the left on roads around the dead end rather then in the dead end itself,

Braking could be influenced by road camber.  Vehicles will wander off to the left naturally on a cambered road in the UK, because that's the downhill direction. IIRC Mercedes and some other manufacturers used to set the front wheel suspension angles differently for right and left hand sides, to compensate for this. Not sure if they still do...

You might try finding a totally flat area somewhere and trying the same braking manouvre on it, to see if that make a difference.

Also, it could be operator input to the braking process making a difference. When you push down on the handlebars, if your right hand leads subconsciously and causes a movement of the handlebars forwards on that side, that would change the handlbar angle very slightly, which could be enough to give a bit of bias towards the left.

[Andrew353w]

5 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Braking could be influenced by road camber.  Vehicles will wander off to the left naturally on a cambered road in the UK, because that's the downhill direction. IIRC Mercedes and some other manufacturers used to set the front wheel suspension angles differently for right and left hand sides, to compensate for this. Not sure if they still do...

I've spent a goodly amount of time reading...... I can confirm the Wartburg workshop manual states different spring tensions for the off & near-sides, presumably to compensate for the car having only one person (the driver) on board and for the road camber in the U.K. 

[Dobloseven]

1 hour ago, Andrew353w said:

I've spent a goodly amount of time reading...... I can confirm the Wartburg workshop manual states different spring tensions for the off & near-sides, presumably to compensate for the car having only one person (the driver) on board and for the road camber in the U.K. 

Often thought about cars with transverse engines,so most of them.The engine,which must be heavier than the gearbox,is almost always on the right-hand side,same as the driver and controls.Subaru used to make much of their cars being symmetrical,with flat four and six engines and longitudinal drive lines.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Often thought about cars with transverse engines,so most of them.The engine,which must be heavier than the gearbox,is almost always on the right-hand side,same as the driver and controls.Subaru used to make much of their cars being symmetrical,with flat four and six engines and longitudinal drive lines.

funnily enough with all this talk, that was something I was thinking about with the Model 70 earlier, its engine is justified to the right of centre line and I wonder why they did that, why did they not have it the left of centre line, as the driver is already justified right of centre line, surely you would want to even out the weight distribution of things as much as possible, but what do I know, as they say! 

[D.E]

Nelco I think?

 

[LightBulbFun]

50 minutes ago, D.E said:

Nelco I think?

 

indeed Nelco Solocar a fairly late one too on a B suffix plate, last where produced in 1965, C suffix not surprised to see someone like him had one  the Nelco Solocar and the Carter Model G especially where quite popular with the higher class old folk, although the Solocar also continued the niche of the Argson, for people who *explicitly* wanted a "bone shaker" that is to say a smaller old style non-saloon-car-esk electric carriage, as they did have their fans for being quite small and manoeuvrable, used in ways much like one would use a modern day Mobility scooter, and in ways that a full bodied, say Electric AC Model 64 could not be used, and being electric meant they where very easy to control/drive etc

this is one of the reasons a surprising amount of 1950's Stanley Argsons remained in Ministry service into the 1980's and even a handful into the 1990's and at least 1 reportedly surviving until the very end in 2003

I wonder what became of his when he passed away? it would of only been a couple years old then (I wonder what machine it might of replaced previously if any), although considered obsolete by most already 

if you had reason to need/buy an invalid carriage in the 1960's and had an all year round job you had to commute to, which would you take the nice and enclosed and cabin-heated AC Acedes that could cruise at 30 mph

or the non-enclosed and most certainly not cabin heated Nelco Solocar with a top speed of about 12Mph!

[brummiejon]

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed Nelco Solocar a fairly late one too on a B suffix plate, last where produced in 1965, C suffix not surprised to see someone like him had one  the Nelco Solocar and the Carter Model G especially where quite popular with the higher class old folk, although the Solocar also continued the niche of the Argson, for people who *explicitly* wanted a "bone shaker" that is to say a smaller old style non-saloon-car-esk electric carriage, as they did have their fans for being quite small and manoeuvrable, used in ways much like one would use a modern day Mobility scooter, and in ways that a full bodied, say Electric AC Model 64 could not be used, and being electric meant they where very easy to control/drive etc

this is one of the reasons a surprising amount of 1950's Stanley Argsons remained in Ministry service into the 1980's and even a handful into the 1990's and at least 1 reportedly surviving until the very end in 2003

I wonder what became of his when he passed away? it would of only been a couple years old then (I wonder what machine it might of replaced previously if any), although considered obsolete by most already 

if you had reason to need/buy an invalid carriage in the 1960's and had an all year round job you had to commute to, which would you take the nice and enclosed and cabin-heated AC Acedes that could cruise at 30 mph

or the non-enclosed and most certainly not cabin heated Nelco Solocar with a top speed of about 12Mph!

I can vouch for the  manoeuvrability of the Argson, I've put mine through its paces.... I can go almost anywhere on mine, but slowly....  Why they would create a vehicle that is happy at walking pace but not allowed off road is a bit odd if you think about it.

[plasticvandan]

Wasn't so much of an issue in the 1930s.

[uk_senator]

On 01/03/2025 at 20:13, lesapandre said:

The petrol station is interesting - it has the circular Mobil 'Pegasus' canopies designed by Eliot Noyes in 1967 - and constructed on many Mobil forecourts afterwards. They were mostly overbuilt later - as here with larger square canopies - but looking up you can see the underside of the originals.

One of the original layouts is Listed Grade II.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1406858

And for those interested in lighting - you can see the troughs for the uplighter fitments on the supports - and in the link they are visible switched on.

There was one of those Mobil stations in an 80`s music video (the station in Hampstead Road as you left the Camden 1-Way).. Cant remember who's video it was now.. Ugh.. Madness or The Clash, or someone like that.. Its on Youtube..

[uk_senator]

On 02/03/2025 at 15:38, D.E said:

Is @LightBulbFun a graboid?!

Or was it a Munch painting reenactment? 🤔

[uk_senator]

On 05/03/2025 at 20:22, Blake's Den said:

Hey @LightBulbFun here is something that might interest you

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186903502591?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-6Jl9ywLQwS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PJQO1AMYSTG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

It is some kind of stock car but with what looks like the Steyr Puch flat twin engine. Could be useful for parts for another invacar owner? I wonder if the distributor turns ...🙂

See, now I`ve gone off on a tangent, trying to find out more about the Daimler flat twin, & now I`ve gone off on another tangent, wondering if anyone's put an invacar engine &/or CVTbox into a classic Fiat 500 or 126.. Honestly.. he way my brain functions.. 😆

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, uk_senator said:

See, now I`ve gone off on a tangent, trying to find out more about the Daimler flat twin, & now I`ve gone off on another tangent, wondering if anyone's put an invacar engine &/or CVTbox into a classic Fiat 500 or 126.. Honestly.. he way my brain functions.. 😆

well they certainly put the engine in the classic Fiat 500 and Fiat 126, because thats the origin story of the Steyr puch flat twin engine  Steyr puch after the war etc, wanted to build a small car as everyone else was doing and was developing something, but realised it was uneconomic to start production of a totally new car, so they instead purchased Fiat 500 bodyshells and put their own much better engine and gearbox into them (from that small car they where developing)

you can read about that in detail here https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/curbside-classic-steyr-puch-500-a-small-but-grand-end-to-austrias-automobile-industry/

the Model 70 was originally going to use the Fiat 500 inline twin engine, but Fiat realised it would not survive in such a demanding application, so they told AC to talk to Steyr puch who had a much more robust engine that could stand up to the riggers being asked of it in the Model 70 and would fit the vehicle without the need for major rework, AC did some talking with the ministry and Steyr puch, and the rest is history as they say  and funnily as far as I know the Model 70 was the last road-going vehicle with a Steyr puch flat twin engine to be produce, producing ending in Jan/Feb 1978 for the Model 70, by which point the Steyr Puch 500/650 126 and Hafinger had all been discontinued for a couple years at least

and when the Model 70 was coming off the road, the engines pulled from them where in high demand by the Fiat 500 crowd to swap into their Fiat 500's

I have seen one comment a few years ago of someone sticking a *whole* Model 70 driveline, so engine and CVT automatic transmission and gearbox into a Fiat 500 to make an automatic city car runabout, but it was just a passing comments, I have never otherwise actually see someone do it/any proof of it

it is something I have wondered about tho, as I dont think there was ever an Automatic Fiat 500 otherwise?