invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Christine]

Banger racing ? 

[egg]

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Saabnut said:

I am going to need my plant trailer over the weekend, so REV was taken the final 15 miles of its journey north, Soon unloaded and Dunc was soon scaring himself!

I am pretty sure that at this point @Dyslexic Viking is closer to REV then I am to REV! 

1 hour ago, Saabnut said:

"Put it in H!"

[ETCHY]

7 hours ago, beko1987 said:

I'd keep the rusty one for future reproduction, maybe wipe it in wd40 and bag it. Would probably clean up OK anyway as is. But treat rev to the best sealed minty nos parts you have! 

I fired many genuine 60+ year old spares at this the other month and it came out very well, and was satisfying to do! Stuff thats been sitting for decades finally used

 

Gotta love an old Hoover.

My mum had a 1960 Hoover Senior that she bought brand new, for years. It was a bloody beast.

Apologies for thread hijack LBF !

[LightBulbFun]

well this is all a bit surreal, all this activity on REV and suddenly TJN gets in on the fray!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw0zj8pxdg8o

the reason this is surreal is because, REV's 2nd Owner was Dennis Webb he owned REV between 1985 and 2000, Dennis Webb being Marion's husband and I presume their father.

I wonder if the sons are aware not only does their Mum's Invacar survive, so does their Dads!

I especially like this line 

Quote

Their mother's model featured a fire extinguisher, accelerator and a clock on the dashboard.

as its one of the little things that directly connect REV and TJN so its fun to see it called out 

this is REV's dashboard setup

and here is TJN's, where you can just make out the same clock  

tis not the first time I noticed it either  

 

On 26/10/2019 at 18:53, LightBulbFun said:

TJN352R is also fitted with the same clock and which also lacks the white trim stripe 

(TJN352R was used by Marion Webb from 1979 to 2004 (it was the last Model 70 in DHSS service), who was married to Dennis webb who owned my Invacar between 1985 and 2000, who must of fitted a clock to his wife's car the same time he fitted one to his own )

its a fun little thing that "connects" the 2 Model 70s still

 

I did ask Stuart a while back if he knew any details about Marion's sons, as while Stuart has quite the file on Marion and TJN (he and Marion where good friends, as Marion was very much involved with the trikes and happy to help stuart with his research and all that)

his file on REV (from before I owned it) is very barren, so I was hoping maybe through the sons I could see if they happened to have a picture of Dennis with REV or even better yet TJN and REV together  

but alas he only ever spoke with Marion and never got in contact with the sons

 

Quote

the car displayed in Coventry Transport Museum and saved from a scrapyard.

this line makes me a bit sad tho, how history has been sanitised,  TJN was/is a very significant Invacar, in that it was THE very last Invalid Vehicle in Ministry service

and thus it was never at risk at being scrapped it was always earmarked for preservation because of its historical importance as the very last car, and its sad to hear no mention of this fact (and also of the fact of course Marion was the very last Ministry user)

its the whole reason TJN survives today, but it seems sadly outside of this thread that fact has been lost to time

despite my best effort to notify them about it!

https://twitter.com/LIGHTBULBFUN/status/1133298220384292864

https://twitter.com/LIGHTBULBFUN/status/1133377524971515904

a more detailed/personal history of TJN and REV can be had from Marion herself by way of a letter she penned to Stuart back in 2006 or so IIRC  

REV's original foot control scheme is one of those things I always wondered about

does it mean she had foot pedals like a regular car, or when Marion says foot control does she literally mean *foot* control ie setup for someone with no arms at all, some sort of foot controlled steering plate for example

the only possible clue I do have as to what REV might of originally been like with her first owner is a bit of rubber flooring missing and 3 screw holes in its place where something at one point in time must of been mounted

but of note, is that regular Model 70 foot accelerator and brake pedals where generally always attached via the bulkhead not the floor, so I do wonder if REV may of been an actual *foot* controlled trike through n through? its one of REV's mysteries  

[ETCHY]

Interesting stuff, thanks for that.

I know i've said it before but I do think that it was such a great thing for a government to do to provide these vehicles & this whole end to end  & as far as I know free facility for the disabled.
I know we have Motability etc but that has to be paid for & with all the things around PIP etc being made more difficult these days I doubt any Government would truly take out a scheme like that with all its associated costs & infrastructure.
Others may disagree but IMO & whatever your viewpoint on Invacars themselves , the idea behind it all was  just somehow utterly good & decent.

[GR8 PL8 M8]

On 08/03/2024 at 07:55, Christine said:

Will the Cooper S    become a Rover  or  British Leyland  Cooper S   though ??  

BMW

[horriblemercedes]

On 09/03/2024 at 02:34, LightBulbFun said:

this line makes me a bit sad tho, how history has been sanitised,  TJN was/is a very significant Invacar, in that it was THE very last Invalid Vehicle in Ministry service

and thus it was never at risk at being scrapped it was always earmarked for preservation because of its historical importance as the very last car, and its sad to hear no mention of this fact (and also of the fact of course Marion was the very last Ministry user)

its the whole reason TJN survives today, but it seems sadly outside of this thread that fact has been lost to time

despite my best effort to notify them about it!

https://twitter.com/LIGHTBULBFUN/status/1133298220384292864

https://twitter.com/LIGHTBULBFUN/status/1133377524971515904

a more detailed/personal history of TJN and REV can be had from Marion herself by way of a letter she penned to Stuart back in 2006 or so IIRC  

REV's original foot control scheme is one of those things I always wondered about

does it mean she had foot pedals like a regular car, or when Marion says foot control does she literally mean *foot* control ie setup for someone with no arms at all, some sort of foot controlled steering plate for example

the only possible clue I do have as to what REV might of originally been like with her first owner is a bit of rubber flooring missing and 3 screw holes in its place where something at one point in time must of been mounted

but of note, is that regular Model 70 foot accelerator and brake pedals where generally always attached via the bulkhead not the floor, so I do wonder if REV may of been an actual *foot* controlled trike through n through? its one of REV's mysteries  

 

This isn't the kind of article that goes into that sort of detail. It's just not practical or desirable for an article like this.

This is primarily designed as something that can be written quickly and people might come across it while browsing the homepage and think "Huh, interesting. I remember those!"

Then that person moves on and forgets.

 

This sort of detail would deter that kind of reader and make it unviable as a piece that simply takes too long to research and write. It just wouldn't be written at all if the author had to go to that level of research. The likelihood is that the writer has no interest in cars at all, let alone invalid vehicles. A list of bullet points and a couple of pictures have been sent to the writer and that person had to make it into a short article of general interest.

 

This kind of info has a place, but it's in a longer article in a more specialist publication.

[Floatylight]

22 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

 

This isn't the kind of article that goes into that sort of detail. It's just not practical or desirable for an article like this.

This is primarily designed as something that can be written quickly and people might come across it while browsing the homepage and think "Huh, interesting. I remember those!"

Then that person moves on and forgets.

 

This sort of detail would deter that kind of reader and make it unviable as a piece that simply takes too long to research and write. It just wouldn't be written at all if the author had to go to that level of research. The likelihood is that the writer has no interest in cars at all, let alone invalid vehicles. A list of bullet points and a couple of pictures have been sent to the writer and that person had to make it into a short article of general interest.

 

This kind of info has a place, but it's in a longer article in a more specialist publication.

Maybe @LightBulbFun should write the book! 

[quicksilver]

49 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

 

This isn't the kind of article that goes into that sort of detail. It's just not practical or desirable for an article like this.

This is primarily designed as something that can be written quickly and people might come across it while browsing the homepage and think "Huh, interesting. I remember those!"

Then that person moves on and forgets.

 

This sort of detail would deter that kind of reader and make it unviable as a piece that simply takes too long to research and write. It just wouldn't be written at all if the author had to go to that level of research. The likelihood is that the writer has no interest in cars at all, let alone invalid vehicles. A list of bullet points and a couple of pictures have been sent to the writer and that person had to make it into a short article of general interest.

 

This kind of info has a place, but it's in a longer article in a more specialist publication.

The fact it points out the car has an accelerator like that's some sort of special feature speaks volumes about the sort of audience that article is intended for. It's good to know Invacars do in fact have accelerators as they'd be a bit difficult to drive without.

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/10/2023 at 15:52, LightBulbFun said:

in other Invalid Carriage news, Stuart has managed to end up with a Stanley Argson Runnymede in flatpack form! story goes the previous owner got it in the mid 1970's and disassembled it to make it easier to store, and then just never got round to do anything with it, so put it on eBay where Stuart won it for £5  (and then the seller very kindly let him have it for free when he learnt who Stuart was)

I initially thought it was a brave project to take on, but subsequent photos does show it to be surprisingly all there, even if some assembly is required! 

(and it did come with an engine/gearbox and Stuart has some spare Argson front wheels)

so this will be quite the  interesting project to follow!  Stuart has good form for being able to restore these machines, if one recalls the 2 Harding's he brought back from the dead  

in non-REV news, Stuart over the last few days set aside a few days to to start the restoration on this Argson

and he certainly was not hanging about! already on 3 wheels  I find it mighty impressive given it was literally still in its stripped component form just a few days ago!

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

 

This isn't the kind of article that goes into that sort of detail. It's just not practical or desirable for an article like this.

This is primarily designed as something that can be written quickly and people might come across it while browsing the homepage and think "Huh, interesting. I remember those!"

Then that person moves on and forgets.

 

This sort of detail would deter that kind of reader and make it unviable as a piece that simply takes too long to research and write. It just wouldn't be written at all if the author had to go to that level of research. The likelihood is that the writer has no interest in cars at all, let alone invalid vehicles. A list of bullet points and a couple of pictures have been sent to the writer and that person had to make it into a short article of general interest.

 

This kind of info has a place, but it's in a longer article in a more specialist publication.

my gripe is a general one, that even the museum themselves dont know, they dont know why they have that Invacar and I find it sad history has been lost like that, especially with such a major museum like that

case in point they did a bigger article on it themselves

https://www.transport-museum.com/news/1534/brothers-reunited-with-late-mums-beloved-trike-at-coventry-transport-museum

and nary a mention of the significance TJN itself holds.... 

 

I do like this photo that was posted on twitter tho  

I believe that would be Marion and Dennis! 

 

I have some 1950's pictures of them courtesy of Stuart, but I believe they are earmarked for the BigBook(TM) but anyone with a copy of the small-book will already have one of the pictures, the Invacar Mk8 bearing the registration mark, 85FTW, the lady standing in front of it, thats Marion  

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

in non-REV news

and in REV news,

the Kingpin set was posted off to  @Saabnut yesterday and should hopefully be with him before not too long, I sent it using the quickest option available  

Saabnut also very kindly gave me a phone call yesterday to discuss the initial report/impressions so to speak

and it sounds like Duncan his Mechanic has gotten over the initial fright of "WTF are these controls" and like most people who have the opportunity to actually spend some time with a Model 70, is now finding it quite enjoyable bombing around the yard in REV now  

current plan going forward is get the kingpin changed, fettle the doors so they open and close smoothly, clean up some fuzzy connections under the dashboard and then bomb around the local lanes see how she performs and tweak/fix accordingly   

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

also Just found this facebook post just now by one of the sons

https://www.facebook.com/jonpwebb/posts/pfbid02a5GWfUsiX9mAiKufDcfmP1PTgDN9gNWqHP6iwCLtfRSWu6fY6bS5FSQSWGhM3X1El

it was nice to hear that the sons themselves knew of the significance of TJN and their mother even if the museum did not.

 

one thing I particularly like from it is the close up of TJN's last Tax disc  

something I noticed in a picture Stuart sent me a while back

 

and something I had always wondered about, with TJN being the very last ministry machine and coming off the road so late into 2004 (14th October 2004), did she have on 05 tax disc, and indeed she did!

I have not come across any other Ministry machine that does otherwise a few showing tax due 2004 but none showing 2005 like TJN

 

 

BTW one fun thing in REV's history, is over the years, she has had 2 stablemates, between 1985-2000 that was TJN352R and then from 2003-2021, she lived with OPH868R, @Mrs6C's Model 70

and the fun thing about both those Model 70's TJN352R and OPH868R, is they both have the more unusual/rare floor mounted lever handbrake setup, funny how coincidences like that happen  

 

[Mrs6C]

4 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

also Just found this facebook post just now by one of the sons

Great that they have posted on FB. You can now get in touch with them and bring them up to date with their Dad's Model 70 as well!

 

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Great that they have posted on FB. You can now get in touch with them and bring them up to date with their Dad's Model 70 as well!

indeed! I very much plan to make contact!

although I do admit I would like to have REV home before I do so, you know so I actually have something to actually show for it!

 

knowing my luck one of them would say "Oh im going to be visiting central London, i'd love to pop over and see it"

to which currently I would have to respond 

"Uhh its actually currently 15 miles North of Aberdeenshire" 

which sounds exactly like when someone does actually have a thing and they are trying to avoid having to show it! 

you know when someone at a car show claims to have a Ford Escort Mexico Ex Rally works something or other  

"Oh cool lets see it then"

"Uhh its actually currently 15 miles North of Aberdeenshire" 

[plasticvandan]

Piss poor excuse to not contact them,the fact you own it is reason enough.hi,I own your dads invacar,which is undergoing reatoration so i can use it on the road,have you any photographs or history you might be able to share,would love to reunite you with it once it is back on the road..etc etc

 

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Piss poor excuse to not contact them,

its not meant as an excuse, just a statement of preference thats all, 

ill figure something out and once im in the right head space ill drop them a line  

 

, I dont *think* the sons know of me and I would be effectively cold calling them, but I want to make a good first impression, and for better or worse, my social anxiety always gets the better of me here so I am going to need some time to overthink things and plan it all out

and thus I was just stating that I personally would feel more at ease if I did have REV, for the reasons I stated above

 

I mean your post is a prime example of why I do overthink these things, I make a statement of preference and I suddenly get comments like "piss poor excuse" so yeah thats exactly why I tend to overthink things like making contact with people etc...

[Christine]

They're perhaps  going to the tip tomorrow with a load of obsolete documents and photos of it .. and an accelerator pedal they don't know what it's for ...  A week later you make contact .....

[plasticvandan]

27 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

its not meant as an excuse, just a statement of preference thats all, 

ill figure something out and once im in the right head space ill drop them a line  

 

, I dont *think* the sons know of me and I would be effectively cold calling them, but I want to make a good first impression, and for better or worse, my social anxiety always gets the better of me here so I am going to need some time to overthink things and plan it all out

and thus I was just stating that I personally would feel more at ease if I did have REV, for the reasons I stated above

 

I mean your post is a prime example of why I do overthink these things, I make a statement of preference and I suddenly get comments like "piss poor excuse" so yeah thats exactly why I tend to overthink things like making contact with people etc...

Just encouragement from someone who broke the autism test many years ago.

A similar message to what I wrote is all that's needed,casual,to the point,and with enough info to garner a response. Anything more as an introduction isn't needed,and they will likely be more amazed that it has survived and you have found them than the fact its waiting for a new kingpin.

[loserone]

It's not like you don't have any pics of it.  Reach out now, you can tell them it's away undergoing repair but you never know when they may decide that Facebook is no longer for them etc.

[chadders]

All it needs is a brief message that tells them that you now own it and here's a recent picture if they're interested. They can then take it from there if they want to.

"I don't know if it's of any interest to you but I own your dad's old invacar and here's a photo of it.

Please let me know if you want any further information"

 

[LightBulbFun]

further on the TJN front theres a neat audio interview of sorts here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hj3h69

REV even gets a brief mention at the end too  

[brummiejon]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

in non-REV news, Stuart over the last few days set aside a few days to to start the restoration on this Argson

and he certainly was not hanging about! already on 3 wheels  I find it mighty impressive given it was literally still in its stripped component form just a few days ago!

 

 

Very Nice 

[Mrs6C]

As has been offered above by several folk - you only need to drop them a brief line and introduce yourself and the fact that you own REV and it's under restoration, also if you like, to add that you'd love to know more about its history with their parents. Get the introduction made and a dialogue established and the rest can follow on from there. Don't overthink it (I know that is easier than it sounds!) but literally, launch in with a short but friendly introduction. A pound to a penny they will be really pleased to know that REV is still about and that they will get back in touch with you.

[Dyslexic Viking]

When I tracked down the first owner and the history of my Mercedes, I found what I thought was a relative and sent him a simple and polite message that I owned this car and the first owner was this person and if he knew anything about this.  And I got an enthusiastic reply that this was his grandfather but that he did not know the car but should contact his grandmother who confirmed that her husband had owned the car and they found pictures of it after a while.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than this.

[Christine]

I daresay they've googled the reg, found all this crap...and  are now in fear of being contacted..

[Mrcento]

Yup, as above, all you need to say is basically 'Hello, i saw your facebook post about the Invacar and mention your dads example was in the Ali G film, as it happens, i bought that very car a couple of years ago and it is currently off undergoing restoration, just thought you'd like to know it still exists, If you happened to have any pics or info on it, i'd love to hear about it and see them and of course, once REV is back on the road, i'd be delighted to show you around it. etc etc.

[LightBulbFun]

dont worry, I found myself in the right head space and after a couple hours of deliberating exactly how to go about things, I have made contact, and alls going swimmingly  I appreciate the advice on what to say but its not that I dont know what to say or anything like that, its just the social anxiety/overthinking part, unfortunately I am not sure how else to explain it, but that is one of my foibles I guess, it took me 6 months to work up the courage to knock on the door of my neighbour who owns the Rover SD1, despite the fact I have known his wife since I was born!

 

anyways, the Son has been most kind and thankful for the contact, he says he has all of his fathers old pictures and slides in storage, that it will probably be some time before they can be got to, but he thinks theres a fair old chance there will be a picture of REV in there, so thats very exciting! 

and he has very kindly given me a couple pictures of TJN back in the day at Silverstone to share here, which is really awesome to see and have  

[loserone]

Finding historical info like a previous owner, and making contact with their family, after so much prior effort over such a sustained period of time is mega impressive