invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[catsinthewelder]

I went to Wolverhampton today, it was a good visit as I didn't exceed the 20 minutes of free parking (and on the way out I spotted a Seat Marbella on a drive).

[High Jetter]

7 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

I went to Wolverhampton today, it was a good visit as I didn't exceed the 20 minutes of free parking (and on the way out I spotted a Seat Marbella on a drive).

You got out, alive? Fair play

[catsinthewelder]

I did, but I need to return on Thursday to put my daughter on the train home.

[Dobloseven]

Great that when a problem occured,it was dealt with and experience gained along the way.Running a fifty year old vehicle is always going to be like this.Well sorted Dez.Seems like Invacar parts availability is better than for some modern cars!

[Snake Charmer]

18 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Can tell you don't have girls over often😅

Only ones with a bit of drive?

[LightBulbFun]

so with the fitting of the new belt, and the trip on the 25th of april coming up, I had the slight issue of, how do I break the new belt in time, problem with London, is its all 20Mph roads or 50Mph+ Dual carriages/motorways, nothing in-between,  regular 30 mph roads are very few and far between, maybe on some chunkier roads you might find some 40Mph bits, but otherwise its all just 20's unless you hop on the A12 or other such major dual carriage way road then its all 50's+

ideally I want to do about 20 miles before exceeding 50Mph (if I am remembering the running in instruction for a Dayco HP2020 belt correctly anyhow, which is the modern equivalent of the belt I have fitted) 

so after giving it some thought, a lightbulb (one of many) in my head went off, and I buggered off to East Finchley, using the "I have to run the belt in" as an excuse to clear out an electrical wholesaler I had visited previously

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/467/#comment-3164561

of the remainder of the Coloured T12 fluorescent tubes (and some bonus extra lamps and fittings) they had

to which I am pleased to report REV handled without issue  

got the goods  

and headed for home  spotting this gloriously shabby Volkswagen LT,  ULEZ be dammed! I did wonder when I first saw it behind me, if it was just another coffee van, but no I dont think so, maybe a camper? but i am not sure, it kinda looks like it was full of random stuff, kinda like if my bedroom was on wheels! either way ill tag @mat_the_cat  

and home was achieved! without issue  

over 500 miles now clocked up since I first got REV in 2019,  and only 1 major FTP, how does that play against the Autoshite Milage to FTP ratio/statics/average? LOL

and it means about 16 miles covered on the new drive-belt  

and so far so good! it is interesting how everything sounds a bit different with the new belt and pulley, so its going to take some getting used to!, the shunting is still gone, so I am quite pleased about that  had plenty of stop start traffic and REV was completely smooth all throughout  but as above I only really got up to 30Mph a couple times, so I am working on another trip out sometime in the week to pick up some other lighting stuff I Just bought off eBay earlier today, which will give me the option of faster roads or even M11 motorway should I chose it (I think ill probably do the non-motorway route there to fully bed the belt in, and if everything feels good then, ill take the M11 motorway route back home and see how things are at speed, but thats still all in the planning phase) I would like to stretch REV's legs a bit more, to make sure the primary pulley is still behaving itself after the ordeal and having to be reset etc.

 

heres a picture of a couple of the tubes lit up the green tube is seriously bright, they always are! which is one of the reasons I am very pleased to finally get one, (I have only been able to find green CFL's or small tube lengths, so its nice to have a proper 5ft'er!) the UV tube is sadly defective, but its the one I care the least about, at least the green tube is fine since it was the last and only one they have, I think they have more UV tubes, so I might see if I can go back and exchange it for another

suppose ill have to do a line up with all 3 colours I have now from this place, Green Gold and blue  (and if I can find a Red and a Pink from somewhere then Ill have the entire Thorn coloured 5ft T12 range!)

 

also page 486  , I suppose thats a challenge for @Zelandeth if he can get this page up one of his appropriately equipped vintage laptops  , (I sadly dont have any 486 systems myself or i'd try myself!)

[garbaldy]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

over 500 miles now clocked up since I first got REV in 2019,  and only 1 major FTP, how does that play against the Autoshite Milage to FTP ratio/statics/average? LOL

Bought a now 46 year old car on here back in  2010 and not a single breakdown and a lot more than 500 miles lol.   I'm just lucky I guess 

[captain_70s]

I managed 300 miles my first rebuilt Dolly engine before it ate a thrust washer. Maybe 600 miles on engine no.2 before HGF?

[keef]

[reb]

9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

maybe a campe

If reels and shorts are anything to go by there seems to be an astonishing number of people living in vans in London at the moment because it means London wages without having to pay London rents.

[LightBulbFun]

so today was another trip in REV to finish breaking in the new drive belt and see how things where at speed with the new belt and pulley  

went up to Harlow, took the non-motorway route through Epping forest on the way there, obligatory round number on the odometer shot  

which I noticed/took as I pulled over while getting slightly lost as the destination itself was not on google maps, only the lane was, turns out it was next to "Barker Bus yard" which had a Bova Futura and other interesting older looking buses and coaches in it, I should of asked if I could of snapped some pics (I popped into the yard with REV for some directions and the guy kindly led the way with his car) I arrived at my destination.

very much a site under development it turns out!

I thought it would be some sort of charity shop affair based on the other nick-nacks the seller had! anywho with the lights loaded up, I got some fuel and headed home  

about 32.5Mpg, slowly going up  (probably helped that most of the runs recently have been faster runs, rather then short city runs) and then home via the M11  

the lights are nothing special/vintage, actually fairly modern "high bay" units

I bought for cheap to take apart for their more interesting component parts as they they are a fixture for Philips PL-H or Osram 'Dulux HO Constant', tubes, which was an unusual somewhat flash-in-the-pan type of high wattage non-integral compact fluorescent lamp that never really caught on so is quite obscure today, the main interest here for me is the lamp holders themselves (sadly all the tubes they had install where smashed) as I have a couple PL-H tubes and the ballasts in my collection already but not the lamp holders themselves, I was also hoping the ballasts in this lights would be a Vossloh Schwabe type I am looking for, but it looks peeping through the vent holes like they are Philips types i already have a box of NOS ones of already! LOL which I have because in a somewhat ironic twist, these PL-H ballasts are a perfect electronic high frequency ballast for vintage 2ft 40W 5ft 80W 6ft 85W and 8ft 100W/125W T12 tubes, if you have a need/want to drive one of those at high frequency.

anywho all in all 54 miles covered today without incident  

on the way there as above I took a non motorway route to finish breaking the drive-belt in, although I did have to still hop on the A12 and dash up to 50Mph briefly, during which there was briefly some hot-belt-smell like in times previous, but then it pretty quickly dissipated and never returned, so ill chalk that up to simply the secondary pulley itself being bedded in (since the inner sections of it are only accessed by the belt at high speed and there was probably some light surface corrosion that needed polishing off so to speak).

 I have to say tho, the non-motorway Route was not very fun, once your out of the Central London 20Mph zones, it then just became badly surfaced roads fully of blind corners and random road closures etc, to the point that twice my phone rattled itself out of the phone holder LOL, I felt a bit sorry for REV during that ordeal, but there was at least plenty of 30-40Mph running to finish running the belt in, and then on the return, as everything had behaved itself and because I did not feel like subjecting REV or myself to those roads again, I took the M11 motorway home, which REV performed without fault, I think the 0-45Mph performance is improved a bit, but the top end sadly has not really changed, still about 60Mph is about all REV will do on the flat and level, tho on a bit of a downhill section I managed 65Mph, so thats a new personal best  but again the belt/CVT behaved itself perfectly, and even after such a thrashing, there was no squealing or shunting when I had to come off the A12 and go back into the stop start 20Mph zones, so I am pretty pleased with that  

 

[plasticvandan]

Suspect it may well be due the points cleaning and adjusting and possibly some timing checking,which should improve performance.would imagine mpg would improve with a new belt as well.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

So pleased to hear that Rev is going from strength to strength, Dez. It must still be heartening to have the car back and ready to drive whenever you wish, after so long away from it. I'm impressed with the ongoing maintenance and repair work too. I don't think the exhaust patch up will hold for long though; it would be worth trying to commission a stainless replacement sooner rather than later. 

Keep going! 

[wuvvum]

On 13/04/2025 at 06:16, reb said:

If reels and shorts are anything to go by there seems to be an astonishing number of people living in vans in London at the moment because it means London wages without having to pay London rents.

Isn't there someone on this very forum doing just that?

[reb]

2 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Isn't there someone on this very forum doing just that?

The call is coming from inside the house

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Suspect it may well be due the points cleaning and adjusting and possibly some timing checking,which should improve performance.would imagine mpg would improve with a new belt as well.

I belive the points have already been cleaned and gapped (although of course cant hurt to double check), but the timing is indeed something i'd like to play with, I belive its been set quite conservatively, so I would like to give it a few more degrees and see if I can eek out a bit more performance, the only problem is road testing, aint no fast roads around here for at least 30 minutes-to-an-hour, so I think it will be something ill do at the FoD where I can make adjustments then quickly hop onto a dual carriage way to check for pinking etc

on that note does anyone have a good dial-back type ignition timing light they might be able to recommend?  

On 12/04/2025 at 07:58, Dobloseven said:

Great that when a problem occured,it was dealt with and experience gained along the way.Running a fifty year old vehicle is always going to be like this.Well sorted Dez.Seems like Invacar parts availability is better than for some modern cars!

5 hours ago, Dick Cheeseburger said:

So pleased to hear that Rev is going from strength to strength, Dez. It must still be heartening to have the car back and ready to drive whenever you wish, after so long away from it. I'm impressed with the ongoing maintenance and repair work too. I don't think the exhaust patch up will hold for long though; it would be worth trying to commission a stainless replacement sooner rather than later. 

Keep going! 

thanks  indeed it has been quite awesome to have REV back and to have the independence that having her available to use brings  its very liberating to be able to just hop in and go somewhere, for example all the lighting stuff that was collection only and previously out of reach, if I see something now I can just hop in REV and go get it  

although I have to be careful not to overdo it! there are some nice vintage fluorescent tubes on facebook market place im eying in Norwich I think, but after everything from the 6th of april to the 15th, my everything is is quite knackered (if only REV could climb stairs!), and I know I have the big trip coming up on the 25th of april, so I am really having to stop myself from jumping into REV and giving @wuvvum a surprise visit as I really should try and rest up as much as I can for trip on the 25th

[plasticvandan]

Points need fairly regular attention,after 500 miles in a pretty much newly returned to the road engine,I would be cleaning and adjusting them. Timing can be set by ear when you know what your doing,but a timing light is cheap. You won't need to to do top speed tests to see the improvement,acceleration and idle etc will all improve as well.

[Andrew353w]

2 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Points need fairly regular attention,after 500 miles in a pretty much newly returned to the road engine,I would be cleaning and adjusting them. Timing can be set by ear when you know what your doing,but a timing light is cheap. You won't need to to do top speed tests to see the improvement,acceleration and idle etc will all improve as well.

When E10 petrol was introduced I opted to buy E5 fuel, from Esso garages whenever I could, as it's 99 octane, which is even higher than the old 4 star! The Daf instruction book states that the timing may be advanced by a maximum of 2 degrees if a higher grade fuel is used, so I did so, and the difference was remarkable! I appreciate both Dafs and Invacars have "modest" performances, so any little extra helps. I suspect the timing MUST be set statically, like a Daf, and dynamic timing is not an option, so try advancing the timing a gnat's crochet and see what happens....... 

[beko1987]

I apologize to my car when we hit massive holes in the road that I couldn't avoid 🤣 Was a particularly nasty one on the a1 I half hit yesterday 😢

[Zelandeth]

Let's not forget that the Invacar was originally set up for two star as well, so there are almost definitely some gains to be had over the stock settings.  Most of us are just stuck with what we started with though given the tendency of the distributor bodies to weld themselves into the crankcases on these engines.  The one in TPA definitely wasn't even vaguely interested in moving when I tried.

[barefoot]

How many rpms is it doing at 60/65/82 mph?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Let's not forget that the Invacar was originally set up for two star as well, so there are almost definitely some gains to be had over the stock settings.  Most of us are just stuck with what we started with though given the tendency of the distributor bodies to weld themselves into the crankcases on these engines.  The one in TPA definitely wasn't even vaguely interested in moving when I tried.

I think I am fortunate that REV's distributor moves, well if I am reading the old posts correctly anyhow

https://autoshite.com/topic/48690-fun-in-the-bath/page/4/#comment-2763306

but as you can see I think the timing has been set quite conservatively, so I do wonder as you say if gains are able to be had 

1 hour ago, barefoot said:

How many rpms is it doing at 60/65/82 mph?

according to the workshop manual 60Mph is 4500RPM, which would give a ratio of about 75, so 65Mph would be 4875RPM and 82 Mph would be 6,150RPM, but this is just calculations, no ones yet attatched a rev gauge to a Model 70 to see what its actually doing (its something I have been quite eager to see done, because I am quite curious to see how the engine rev's behave with respect to the CVT system, which in theory should keep the engine at 3500RPM always, up to 45Mph, but I am quite interested to know exactly how steady it is in real life, thats one thing I noticed with the new belt and pulley is engine revs seem to be a bit more stable in the 0-45Mph regime)

[Zelandeth]

Those numbers do sound pretty reasonable - and does make the 82mph number sound feasible - between 6-7k seems to be where folks consider the red line to be on these engines from what I remember reading - so pushing into that zone for absolute VMax doesn't sound outlandish.  Whether it's actually *possible* is another question - which hopefully one day we'll be able to answer on a track.

The bigger concern for me I think going far north of 60mph though is that the primary pulley is only rated for 5k rpm.

[Andrew353w]

The Daf's figures are 16.5 m.p.h. at 1,000 r.p.m. when in top ratio, which represents about 60-70 m.p.h. at 4,000 r.p.m. I can confirm these figures as my Daf has a rev counter. I've had 87 m.p.h. out of the Daf, but I was too scared to look at the rev counter as I was doing it! I estimate it was 4,750 r.p.m. though.

C.V.T.s make calculating the road speed vs. engine speed a difficult one, particularly with Dafs, as they rev up as the car slows down!  

[Missy Charm]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I belive the points have already been cleaned and gapped (although of course cant hurt to double check), but the timing is indeed something i'd like to play with, I belive its been set quite conservatively, so I would like to give it a few more degrees and see if I can eek out a bit more performance, the only problem is road testing, aint no fast roads around here for at least 30 minutes-to-an-hour, so I think it will be something ill do at the FoD where I can make adjustments then quickly hop onto a dual carriage way to check for pinking etc

on that note does anyone have a good dial-back type ignition timing light they might be able to recommend?  

thanks  indeed it has been quite awesome to have REV back and to have the independence that having her available to use brings  its very liberating to be able to just hop in and go somewhere, for example all the lighting stuff that was collection only and previously out of reach, if I see something now I can just hop in REV and go get it  

although I have to be careful not to overdo it! there are some nice vintage fluorescent tubes on facebook market place im eying in Norwich I think, but after everything from the 6th of april to the 15th, my everything is is quite knackered (if only REV could climb stairs!), and I know I have the big trip coming up on the 25th of april, so I am really having to stop myself from jumping into REV and giving @wuvvum a surprise visit as I really should try and rest up as much as I can for trip on the 25th

Norwich?  Let the train take the strain.  It's a horrible place to get to by road from all points south of Colchester, whereas the mainline shoots one straight down there on a lovely new train out of Liverpool Street.  They've even got electronic display boards that tell you if anyone's in the lavatory!  Luxury.  

Norwich is a great town: a couple of good museums, useful shopping, history (Cathedral, castle, Tombland area etc.).  There's also decent nightlife: pubs, ordinary bars, whimsical bars, rock bars and clubs.  Very much enjoyed my last little holiday there, but took the train.  You should, too.  Do go; you'll like it.  

[Yoss]

1 hour ago, Andrew353w said:

The Daf's figures are 16.5 m.p.h. at 1,000 r.p.m. when in top ratio, which represents about 60-70 m.p.h. at 4,000 r.p.m. I can confirm these figures as my Daf has a rev counter. I've had 87 m.p.h. out of the Daf, but I was too scared to look at the rev counter as I was doing it! I estimate it was 4,750 r.p.m. though.

C.V.T.s make calculating the road speed vs. engine speed a difficult one, particularly with Dafs, as they rev up as the car slows down!  

That sounds about normal for cars of that era. The Triumph 1300 is 15.5mph per 1000rpm in top. The later 1500 FWD was regeared to 16.5. I have fitted the 1500 box to my 1300 which brings the revs down massively from about 4500 to 4200 at 70!

To be fair my car feels quite happy at those speeds. The 1300 TC has the Spitfire spec engine with a quite respectable 75hp but you don't get that until 6000rpm. So driving round town it feels no different to the standard 1300 (except noisier) but on the open road it picks up nicely and at 60 feels like it's just getting started.