invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[eddyramrod]

7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

no problems! 

not quite game over tho! as a last ditch effort if you really need/want to find out some more details on the vehicle that plate was from, then luckily for you the Barrow archives have vehicle records

only a card index however, so im not 100% sure how much detail will be there beyond the Vehicle make model and chassis number, but it may be worth a shout

so might be worth saving your Shekels for the archvist! (and besides when I get no result it thankfully does not cost me any credits! but I appreciate the thought!)

 

6 hours ago, loserone said:

That sounds like a task to send @eddyramrod on!

It does, yes.  I'll be in the area tomorrow, want me to see if I can find the office?

[Jimbob McGregor]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:25 PM, eddyramrod said:

 

It does, yes.  I'll be in the area tomorrow, want me to see if I can find the office?

Well, if it’s not too much trouble and doesn’t get in the way of things for you then yes please. Obviously let me know if any fees or costs to you are involved.  
No sweat if you don’t manage to get anywhere though, I’m sure it’s under two hours drive to Barrow from here!

[eddyramrod]

I'm up that way on Monday, I'll see if I can find it.

[Blake's Den]

Hey @LightBulbFun, this popped on on a mini page that I follow and I thought of you 🤣

It's from an 848cc auto mini from the mid 70's. I know that your flavour of cars have three wheels but it might interest you.

[LightBulbFun]

On 03/07/2022 at 17:28, Blake's Den said:

Hey @LightBulbFun, this popped on on a mini page that I follow and I thought of you 🤣

It's from an 848cc auto mini from the mid 70's. I know that your flavour of cars have three wheels but it might interest you.

very cool! thats a Ministry Mini, supplied to people where a single seater invalid vehicle would not be suitable, say if you had a family or other dependants you needed to move about

but supplied in exactly the same way an Invacar would be, free of charge to the user, and adapted as much as possible to the persons need, hence the goverment property plaque because they where procured and run just like Invacars where, because they where part of the exact same scheme!

(contrary to popular belief you  if you where single mother of 5 you did not just get lumped with an Invacar regardless)

the only difference was unlike Invacars they did not have to be destroyed at the end of life and could and where sold through regular government auctions next to all the surplus military lots and all that stuff

 

the plastic sticker is quite interesting, I have seen the usual Ministry/Government Property plaque a few times, but not the sticker before, so thats interesting, I wonder what it said in its entirity because it looks like the top three quarters  is missing?

 

heres a couple other Ministry Minis I have found over time for reference  

On 02/04/2020 at 02:14, LightBulbFun said:

also found this! https://www.theminirestorationcompany.co.uk/projects/marco-karen-s-project

looks like any other Mini these days right?

but check this out!, thats right its a DHSS supplied mini  contrary to popular belief the invalid vehicle service did supply adapted normal cars to certain people depending on the situation especially to married couples, at first Morris minors then Minis

I waited till stuart was available to confirm that what I was looking at was indeed a DHSS mini and to get some extra info  (hence only posting it now, but I came across it while digging up a picture of DYO833C)

sadly its been stripped of all its DHSS features bar the the info plaque, which as it says, Reselco was the primary provider of hand controls for normal cars to the DHSS

I had known of the government Minors and Minis (Dennis and Marion Webb had a government Minor for a while for example)

 but had never seen one otherwise in detail, and I had wondered if they like the DHSS's Invalid vehicles if they had little government property and contract plaques, looks like indeed they did  

its a shame its been stripped of all its unique features otherwise would be neat to see how it would of been setup

 

On 17/06/2021 at 20:18, LightBulbFun said:

check it out another ministry Mini  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144074193434

its a shame the full contract number is hidden on OYA512P it would of been interesting to see how it compared to HOY93K

and its interesting how the contract was specifically with Reselco (who where the ones who fitted the vehicle with adapted controls) rather then directly with BMC or something such, so I think it was up to Reselco to source the Mini to then supply it to the Ministry

its also a good excuse to finally post this which I came across a good few months ago now from the Hansard reports https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1973-05-17/debates/a5445f8f-64fb-4a24-87dd-e27a79747623/WrittenAnswers#contribution-f71a9727-9850-40aa-bb4e-76ca5bc10b08

a nifty chart showing what regular cars the Ministry had on issue back in the day

(I knew of the Ministry Mini's and Minors, but I had no idea of all the other cars, can you imagine if someone found a Ministry Renault 4 ) 

 

which is fun because I mentioned before, contrary to popular belief you could very much get a normal car from the IVS if you needed one (say if you where a married couple or had children/other dependants etc)

 

 

and heres a side bit on Ministry Renault 4's  

On 21/06/2022 at 03:21, LightBulbFun said:

anyways my musing at facebook idiots aside, here is a chart showing all the regular cars on issue by the Ministry back in 1973  (contrary to popular belief if you needed something more then an Invacar the Ministry would so provide)

Id love to know if any Ministry Renault 4's still survive out there...

 

 

 

On 21/06/2022 at 16:02, Datsuncog said:

You might know this already, but I understand Renault 4s were provided to people who had lost the use of their left arm and also needed to transport family members - the dashboard mounted gear lever could be modified with an extension bar so they could quickly reach across and shift gear with their right hand.

An automatic gearbox wouldn't necessarily have been suitable, as the selector button on an auto is designed to be pressed with the left hand thumb - and this would have been very difficult to operate while reaching over with the right hand.

I recall a schoolfriend's father who had lost his left arm in an accident driving a Citroen 2CV through Motability - as it was the only new car still available in the late 1980s with a dash-mounted gearstick. He'd formerly had a Renault 4, but they'd stopped making them by then.

Being in the car with him was memorable...

As the gear lever extension bar was a simple screw-on/ screw-off fitting, it wouldn't be hard to return a Ministry-supplied R4 back to standard - so it'd be hard to tell if any survivors were previously adapted, without paperwork to show it.

Still - you never know!

 

On 21/06/2022 at 16:24, LightBulbFun said:

interesting! I knew that they where supplied because their unique dash mounted gearshift and some other things allowed them to be adapted to certain disabilities that other cars could not

but I have never been able to find  what exactly the disability that necessitated them was, so thats very interesting to hear  

I know the Ministry trialed several cars to replace the Renault 4 including the Dyane but for one reason or another, they never found a true successor to the versatile Renault 4!

 

On 21/06/2022 at 16:02, Datsuncog said:

I'd guess that the R4 was a cheap, basic box with five doors which was reasonably easy to maintain, certainly more so than the Dyane - something fairly simple like changing the brake pads on a Dyane was a needlessly complex job, the inboard discs requiring the front end to be removed for access!

Interesting that the DAF 33 was also trialed - with the Variomatic transmission, I can see why that might have been useful.

Ministry cars, had Ministry plates on them that stated Government Property a contract number and Ministry specification number exactly like what you would see on an Invacar  

some surviving Minis still retain this plate (you can sometimes find people on Mini forums getting rather confused by it!)

 

so I imagine a Ministry Renault 4 would have something similar nailed to it somewhere! which may be our one clue to finding an ex Ministry R4!

 

On 21/06/2022 at 17:16, Datsuncog said:

I'd guess that the R4 was a cheap, basic box with five doors which was reasonably easy to maintain, certainly more so than the Dyane - something fairly simple like changing the brake pads on a Dyane was a needlessly complex job, the inboard discs requiring the front end to be removed for access!

Interesting that the DAF 33 was also trialed - with the Variomatic transmission, I can see why that might have been useful.

 

 

as side side note I have heard that @Idriveaclassic has or had a Ministry Morris Minor! which sounds pretty awesome I have only seen Ministry Minis in the current day, not seen a surviving ministry minor yet, so thats on the list of things to chase up  

[LightBulbFun]

On 29/06/2022 at 22:31, Remspoor said:

Simca, but what is that behind?😉

 

On 30/06/2022 at 21:53, RayMK said:

The lady's sleeve and handbag do nicely conceal the front wheel arrangement and make it appear to be a three wheeler but the proportions do not fit any tripod that I'm familiar with.  With so few features visible, I initially thought it may be a Goggomobile.  The A35/30 suggestion by J R Hartley seemed much more likely.

 

On 30/06/2022 at 21:17, Remspoor said:

I thought it might have 3 wheels.

I can see why you would think its what it might be

but no, that im pretty sure is an Austin A30/35 im afraid!

as well as the proportions not being quite right, the other big give away is the Right hand steering wheel and dual wipers

it aint no AC Model 67 or AC/Invacar Model 70 sadly!

 

I have wondered if AC gave the Model 67 AC Acedes Mk14/Mk14A front mould lines to mimic the A30/A35's front panel lines, or if the mould lines really where mould lines and just how the body was fibreglassed together

or if that was just the style of the time, the rear mould lines do continue down the back "fins" of the rear which is not something the A30/A35 has,

by the Model 67 AC Acedes Mk15, the Front mould lines had gone but the rears remained and continued throughout Model 70 production as well and Invacar Mk12's a completely differently styled vehicle, also has mould lines going down the back

 

[eddyramrod]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:40 PM, eddyramrod said:

I'm up that way on Monday, I'll see if I can find it.

Guess what, I didn't even think of it.  Sorry.  I'm round there again tomorrow though...

[Sheefag]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:11 PM, Crackers said:

The style of plate is right, but the shape isn't, unless it was a Range Rover.

AFAIK, every* Series 3 was fitted with a square rear plate on either the left or right of the tailgate. I honestly don't recall ever seeing a standard one with a normal rectangular rear plate. 

 

*hangs up anorak, gets back in box*

It could be off a trailer, of course.

[Asimo]

[LightBulbFun]

22 minutes ago, Asimo said:

here is a nice high res version from my 2000th post all the way back on page 44  (and from before the Forum shrunk images to something silly like 1280 pixels! how I long for just a few more pixels! at least 1500 would be nice!)

note the Invacar Badge on what should be an AC machine according to the reg mark OPD706L, question is which is which!, is it just an Invacar badge on an AC machine, or is it an AC reg plate nailed to an Invacar machine! good old approved repairer shenanigans!

[Mrs6C]

That is Princes Risborough town centre...

[RayMK]

@LightBulbFun

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363896172349?hash=item54b9e6ef3d:g:lukAAOSwYaRiwwkM

[LightBulbFun]

@Datsuncog you have always* wanted* a Model 70 right? 

well theres 2 for sale in Northern Ireland right now  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363896172349

I know both of these Model 70's pretty well, sadly the owner of them who I had many a good phone call with passed away hence why they are for sale

I have informed the current owner of them that the price is a bit strong, but hopefully they can find a good home! especially UOI8850 being a Northern Ireland car, which is very rare!

if WPD607G sounds familiar to you its the Model 70 from round back of elmsleigh invacar that @dollywobbler scoped out for me, I still wonder about its story! how it came to wear the ID of an AC Model 67 etc! and why it was sold! @bobdisk asked about it at the time and they said they where keeping it only for it to be sold months later

for any interested parties, do be warned that WPD has been a tricky one to properly ID, I have some leads, but I have yet to nail it down (its defo a Post March 1976 Invacar Model 70 thats for sure, and I remember its engine number was close to REV's, but I need to confirm that)

typical its been tricky to ID as its one I have been "chasing" since Page 15! 

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Glasgee's transprot museum. 

 

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Had this one yet? 

 

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Had this one yet? 

 

haha indeed I have seen a few from that series pop up, never actually read one tho!

I posted Ivan the Invacar Saves Wobbly Hubcap, when @dollywobbler fitted some hubcaps to TWC only for her to chuck em all off!  

[Mrs6C]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

well theres 2 for sale in Northern Ireland right now  

@AdgeCutler - maybe one for you as well?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

@AdgeCutler - maybe one for you as well?

Oh I already let him know about these  

sadly I understand they are just too far out of budget, its one of the sad things about Invacars becoming more valuable is they move out of the price range of genuine enthusiasts

and into the  range of people who are "I have more money then sense and id like a garden ornament" 

 

the problem is, they are a bit like K6 phone boxes, no one really cared much for them, apart from dedicated enthusiasts, but now they have all vanished, and although no one really cared for them, everyone does remember them still, so suddenly given the chance a lot of people would probably buy one for the garden just for the LOLs or such

a lot of that is what is happening with Invacars sadly

 

and all this is why I really dont like it when people ask me to give them a valuation on an invacar/invalid vehicle they have, because I really am just in it for the vehicles and ensuring that they find good homes etc,  and the thing I dont like is, because I do keep track of everything, I do know exactly what the going rate for an Invacar is, and I just dont agree with it, because it puts them out of the reach of good homes, but at the same time, im not one to lie to someone if they ask me about it, so I will generally give them the going rate, but explain that id like them to find a good home!

its a bit like asking the RSPCA or an Animal shelter to give a valuation on a rare and abused breed of dog!

but again ill do it for the Cars sake

[Crackers]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

and into the  range of people who are "I have more money then sense and id like a garden ornament" 

Fundamentally disagree. 

It means they are (somehow) becoming more desirable and therefore more likely to gain a few more interested followers and a bit of the limelight. 

Classic car ownership is not an exclusive privilege for "people who are only interested in that particular car" and where there is very limited supply, additional demand pushes prices up. 

As an owner of one, you should probably be quite pleased about climbing values... 

[chadders]

You could also argue if values climb then it can be result in more being saved from being scrapped and rare/unobtainable parts being remanufactured.

Personally I'd use one as a garden ornament, perhaps as a unique woodstore, painted to blend in with the trees, and also a haven for wildlife. If that means I've got more money than sense sobeit, it's better than having no money.

[LightBulbFun]

On 05/07/2022 at 11:29, Crackers said:

Fundamentally disagree. 

It means they are (somehow) becoming more desirable and therefore more likely to gain a few more interested followers and a bit of the limelight. 

Classic car ownership is not an exclusive privilege for "people who are only interested in that particular car" and where there is very limited supply, additional demand pushes prices up. 

I agree that the more exposure they get, the more people with good intentions they will find, but I also fear they will attract all the people with bad intentions

the ones who want to do silly things like put a motorcycle engine in or something such, or who will get a rare one in need of some love and just let it fester somewhere

of the 100 Model 70's known to still exist in one form or another, only about 5 are on the road at best, and only 1 is on the road on any regular basis, so the state of affairs is pretty sad as it is

On 05/07/2022 at 11:29, Crackers said:

As an owner of one, you should probably be quite pleased about climbing values... 

but why would I care?

thats the thing I dont think people quite get, I Really am in this for the Invacars, they mean a lot to me, to me the whole money aspect of things is just an evil getting in the way of ensuring the cars find good homes and are suitably looked after, and I will do all I can for them

so what REV is worth, is it a bit meaningless for me, she is an insoluble asset as far as im concerned, she aint going anywhere! and thats on top of all the effort I put into finding her and being able to afford her in the first place!

 

People have gotten upset with me about not charging people I give Invacar technical support to, but the thing is, I dont care about the money, I only care about the cars, so if I see someone struggling with an Invacar in some capacity, I will happily go out of my way to help them

 

I think the whole concept of "I am not in this for myself, I am here to serve the thing I am enthusiastic about" tends to break a lot of people! 

 

because in the end, there are very few people who are sadly, time and time again, I have seen people who have said "ohh I wish I had a Model 70 I remember them from my childhood" etc, so Stuart my predecessor would go out of his way to find them a Model 70, where upon they would just in the end turn around and sell it for profit, its one of the reasons he packed up shop, since he was just fed up with people using him like this

[LightBulbFun]

BTW for @quicksilver per the conversation at the FoD

double checked and can confirm that HAR885N-HAR984N is a block of Invacar Model 70's  

sadly none are known to survive to park next to the Mondeo! but in theory it could of been parked next to one in its life time!

[bobdisk]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:01 PM, LightBulbFun said:

@Datsuncog you have always* wanted* a Model 70 right? 

well theres 2 for sale in Northern Ireland right now  

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363896172349

I know both of these Model 70's pretty well, sadly the owner of them who I had many a good phone call with passed away hence why they are for sale

I have informed the current owner of them that the price is a bit strong, but hopefully they can find a good home! especially UOI8850 being a Northern Ireland car, which is very rare!

if WPD607G sounds familiar to you its the Model 70 from round back of elmsleigh invacar that @dollywobbler scoped out for me, I still wonder about its story! how it came to wear the ID of an AC Model 67 etc! and why it was sold! @bobdisk asked about it at the time and they said they where keeping it only for it to be sold months later

for any interested parties, do be warned that WPD has been a tricky one to properly ID, I have some leads, but I have yet to nail it down (its defo a Post March 1976 Invacar Model 70 thats for sure, and I remember its engine number was close to REV's, but I need to confirm that)

typical its been tricky to ID as its one I have been "chasing" since Page 15! 

 

Annoyed I am not in aposition to go for this, especially as it is the exEmsleigh one. @LightBulbFun, its gone now, did not take long!

[AdeMk1]

@LightBulbFun are you aware of this one?

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, AdeMk1 said:

@LightBulbFun are you aware of this one?
 

indeed I am its one I have been aware of for a while, I used to give technical support to the chap restoring it before he sadly passed away

its UOI8850 from the ebay listing, someone else has bought WPD607G separately, so UOI8850 is for sale on its own now

I had not yet mentioned it as I wanted to give @AdgeCutler a fighting chance, and I gave him the heads up first! but the seller went and listed it publicly anyway!

£1250 is a lot more reasonable then £6500 thats for sure!

 

[egg]

No posts since Weds? LBF is slacking!

38 small engined classic cars....no 36....Model 70

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/gallery/38-small-engined-classic-cars

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, egg said:

No posts since Weds? LBF is slacking!

38 small engined classic cars....no 36....Model 70

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/gallery/38-small-engined-classic-cars

Hey I did poke Red5 for an update on REV, but not much to report just yet from the last update, although I think she is finally getting all her fluids changed which im quite pleased about, as I have no idea when the diff and gearbox oil has been changed! certainly not in the last 20 years, so thats been on my mind for a few years (to the point I was gearing up to do it myself before she went away, and I have a Jug of EP90 taking up space on the kitchen counter top alongside the 20W50 LOL)

 

indeed I have seen Model 70's pop up in those lists from time to time, at least one of them uses a picture of REV I took at the FoD amusingly 

I almost wonder if they are autogenerated I have seen so many of them that all follow the same format, it will be a number, then a thing, then best, worst, classic etc

 

of course they completely get all their facts wrong for the Invacar one, its quite amusing how all these places regurgitating the same false stuff always say 147cc,

I find it really amusing, as literally No Invacar, had a 147cc engine 

some other invalid carriages did,

but all Invacars where 122/125cc (Invacar Model 12), 197cc (Invacar Model 19, Invacar Mk6 through to Mk12E), 242cc (Mk8B), or 493cc (Model 70), and whatever cubic capacity Derry Preston Cobb's personal New era ended up at, probably 493 cubic inches knowing Cobb!

 

Dingwall, Harding, and Stanley all made 147cc Villiers machines, but not Invacar LOL

[brownnova]

Just seen these Invacar pics crop up from a car show today. I assume this one is well known to our invacar corespondent? 

[LightBulbFun]

13 hours ago, brownnova said:

Just seen these Invacar pics crop up from a car show today. I assume this one is well known to our invacar corespondent? 

indeed I know this one pretty well, have spoken to the owner about it a few times, glad to see it out and about still

in-fact its a bit of an awkward one for me, because I took all its details, and it all matched up, to what info I had at the time so I declared it all good to the current owner

but then it turned out later that, long before my time, a previous post ministry owner of the vehicle changed the chassis number on the DVLA database/Logbook to match what they saw on the vehicle, rather then question why the chassis number did not match up

so later on when I pulled the info from the DVLA database it looked like it matched the stamped numbers on the vehicle and all was good, when it turned out it was not

 

its actually TVW4R, and not TTW906R

id like to try and explain this to the current owner so they can apply for the correct logbook and reunite this Model 70 with its correct identity 

but im worried they might get confused by it all,

and im also worried about what the DVLA might think when they see the same keeper apply for another vehicle that has the "same" chassis number as one they currently have registered to them

(although I have been told that this is not really something to worry about, and I know TVW has no scrapped markers against it which would avoid it getting looked at too deeply)

but yeah its all a bit of an awkward cluster fuck to say the least! this might just have to be a case of let sleeping dogs lie,

but I would really like to sort it, especially as its the only known survivor of the TVW-R block, a block which is only 6 cars big!

(TVW1R to TVW6R which then leads into TTW906R-TTW999R, note how they add up to make a full block of 100)

I have been going back and forth on this since about 2019 LOL

 

as a side fun fact, TVW4R was the sister car found alongside @st185cs's MHJ22P when that vehicle was first unearthed 15+ years ago in east London 

 

[LightBulbFun]

15 hours ago, Yoss said:

Though the Saab uses a big triplex chain to get power from the shaft to the gears... 

very interesting to actually see inside one of these!

the AC Model 70 uses a similar system as well, 

it uses a Triplex chain much like that, to take drive from the CVT system and sends it to the Fiat 500 diff (and theres also a small duplex chain inside the gearbox thats part of the reverse circuit)

so its been interesting to compare and contrast (I have known of the Saab system for many years now but have never actually seen inside of one!)

 

 

what caught my eye was just how similar the chain tensioning shoe looks to the one from a Model 70

I wonder what its made from, if its a common material (ie something you will always find in this sort of application) hence why it looks the same? 

and the complete gearbox/transmission unit for context

 

its also interesting to learn that Saab only switched to the Chain system in 1976, I always just sort of assumed it was like that from the go and it was one of the things they changed when switching to the Triumph licensed running gear

13 hours ago, Asimo said:

The SaaB 99 used gears initially, they changed to chains in about ‘76

which means the AC Triplex chain system predates Saabs own system, something I was not expecting LOL

 

its like the Model 70's rear lights, everyone just says they are Reliant Regal/Robin Mk1 rear lights, but the Model 70 used them a good year before Reliant did!