invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

This link is worth a click.

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19030928.remember-faces-brickfields/?ref=twshr#gallery8 

very cool had not seen that one before  

[Zelandeth]

Right...for future reference.  Invacar/AC Model 70 rear brake hoses are shared with the FRONT hoses on a Mk I Triumph GT6.

I've just fitted a pair so can confirm they fit.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Right...for future reference.  Invacar/AC Model 70 rear brake hoses are shared with the FRONT hoses on a Mk I Triumph GT6.

I've just fitted a pair so can confirm they fit.

ah awesome, always good to know and have confirmed what parts are shared with what or are compatible with etc  

now we just need to figure out the front one...

[LightBulbFun]

8 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

I know, I know you got toggles and we only have rockers.

if its toggle switches you want, then just* find an AC Acedes Mk14

(note I think the foot pedal is a user specific modification rather then a normal feature)

Or an AC Acedes Mk15 which got you a 3rd switch the Decadence! 

[Six-cylinder]

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

if its toggle switches you want, then just* find an AC Acedes Mk14

(note I think the foot pedal is a user specific modification rather then a normal feature)

Or an AC Acedes Mk15 which got you a 3rd switch the Decadence! 

 

I would say a rather poor random scattering!

[LightBulbFun]

On 20/01/2021 at 13:18, LightBulbFun said:

just had this lamp arrive, its an MA lamp, a Medium pressure mercury lamp  I am very pleased to have finally nabbed one of these for a reasonable price

they are very rare sought after lamps and very historically significant, as the Medium pressure mercury lamp was the first hot cathode discharge lamp, and all modern discharge lamps today are descendent from this type of lamp

they where invented by GEC of England between 1923-1932 and put to market in 1932/1933 and was quickly copied the world over (in fact this is not my first one, I do own a 1943 US General Electric Example as well, but this is my first British example)

a great deal more on the Medium Pressure mercury lamp can be found here  http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/M8 MA.htm

this particular lamp was made by the British arm of the Dutch Philips company in their Hamilton Scotland factory and dates to December 1952, the Date code is 36, which also comes back as December 1944, but the packaging looks 1950s to me matches a couple labels on the Philips 131U Radio I have IIRC, and the Hamilton Factory writeup by the excellent James Hooker makes mention that all lamp production moved to Hamilton in 1949 and since this bears the Hamilton Factory symbol on its etch then that confirms it to 1952, more on the Hamilton factory can be read here I do recommend giving it a read! http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Factory - UK - Hamilton.htm )

 

and as a bonus its an Ex Government property lamp, did not realise this when I bought it so was a nice bonus when I opened the package and checked out its etch  

(I think the number starting with X is a Pre NATO Military order code the lamp)

 

I do hope to light it soon and of course I will post pictures

this lamp does have one small issue where sadly one of the spot welds for the starting resistor has broken at some point in time, disconnecting the starting electrode from the rest of the lamp, but I have a few ways of providing the lamp with an extra kick to get it going in light of the non functional starting electrode so I am not to worried about that

pleased to report it works lovely, and struck up on its own with the need for any external assistance despite the inoperable starting electrode, not bad for a nearly 70 year old LightBulb   

 

here it is just after striking while some of emissive coating from the electrodes that sputtered off during striking flashes bright white and purple as it entered the arc stream temporarily and then a couple seconds after that when it settled down

and then here it is fully run up 

such a beautiful lamp to observe lit and unlit

[Spottedlaurel]

Of interest? https://flic.kr/p/2kvxdQv

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Of interest? https://flic.kr/p/2kvxdQv

Oh very cool! not a pic iv seen before, thanks for sharing it with me, its a Model 67  Looks its CPC443H so that makes its specifically an AC Acedes Mk15 

 

[LightBulbFun]

a little while ago @Andyrew very kindly saved a number of lightbulbs from a house clearance skip and gave them to me at one of the FoD gatherings

in there was this lamp, a rare Self ballasted mercury lamp, made for Sun tanning, therapeutic uses, and as a general UV/IR source it uses a tungsten filament as a ballast for the mercury vapour arc tube which produces the UV (down to about 300Nm is whats allowed through the hard glass bulb) said Filament while acting as the ballast for the arc tube eliminating the need for any external control gear also produces infrared for therapeutic and such applications 

was quite excited when this was dug out as they are quite rare, (this type of lamp  was a bit more popular in the US however and I had such a US example, the US examples where 275W and made by GE, Sylvania and Westinghouse, my US example is a GE SUN RS one for those curious)

but until then I had no 220V-240V/European examples so I was very pleased to finally get one to compliment my US example

 

well I finally got round to testing it and im pleased to report it works  my Example dates to November 1968 for those wondering, its always a bit nerve wrecking testing filament lamps like this where its hard to see what sort of shape the filament is in

dont want it to turn it on have it go PLINK! on you with a bright flash or find its lost vacuum and have the filament burn up and oxidise  

 

here it is just after striking, at this point the arc tube is still cold and the voltage drop across it is very small (about 15V-20V) so most of the light is produced by the ballast filament

once the lamp warms up the light output from the arc tube increases greatly and so does its voltage drop (to about 115V) meaning a lot less voltage is across the filament now so a lot more light is now from the mercury vapour arc tube

\

a more detailed/technical description of this lamp can be found here for those curious http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec Sheets/D MB Philips MLU300.htm

[Andyrew]

Surprised it still works! 

Given it had been in a older gents house for many years, the house was cleared by his son who rammed all the stuff into his van and then lobbed it into a skip. Then more stuff was hurled ontop of it for a few days

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

22 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Surprised it still works! 

Given it had been in a older gents house for many years, the house was cleared by his son who rammed all the stuff into his van and then lobbed it into a skip. Then more stuff was hurled ontop of it for a few days

indeed! its had a lucky escape!

 

I have been wondering/trying to figure out how much use its had

looking at the contacts on the base I dont see much in the way of pressure marks that you normally see on bayonet capped lightbulbs that have been in a socket for a long time/used a lot

but I think I do some whitening of the arc tube from sputtered electrode material which does indicate some use

 

and finally the box it came in was for a regular Crompton 250W infrared lamp, but that someone had remarked "NOT  INFRARED" "ULTRAVOILET" so I have to wonder what the deal was with that

did its original box fall apart so whoever stuffed it in another suitable box or what have you,  and was this done by the shop the old gent got it from, or the old guy himself when he maybe stopped using it for whatever he got it for back in 1968?

said Crompton box dates to the mid 1980s so about 20 years newer then the lamp it contained

[LightBulbFun]

Bloody hell check this out!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114651835440

Stanley Argson mother-load! I really hope they end up in a good home and preferably someone I know so I can track their progress (how I wish I had a garage right about now!)

SPD906 UPE517 and UPE519 are all previously unknown Argsons I think, so its very exciting!

would love to know what their history is

UPE517 even shows up on the DVLA! untaxed since 1990 but marked as scrapped in 1999 I have a feeling it might be an Ex Heywood store, vehicle  (it never showed up when I searched the DVLA database for all 2000 Ministry Argons by chassis number as its DVLA chassis number has a Typo in it obscuring it from my search)

its a shame that they where all disassembled like that with all the parts jumbled up since it makes it harder to tell what parts belonged to what machine (they are all Ministry specification Electric Stanley Argson Model 44's but its well known that no 2 invalid vehicles really are the same!)

but immediately of note is the front fork fitted with a 1957-1975 Ministry specification 12 inch Dunlop LP 591 wheel, which was fitted to some Late surviving Argons in the 1970's to reduce parts holding and ease issues around getting replacement wire wheels

 

here is an image dump from the ebay listing to preserve the images after the listing is pulled by ebay when it ends

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon]

On 8/22/2020 at 5:48 AM, LightBulbFun said:

ah yeah came across that one last year  I appreciate the heads up tho

 

for some reason every known surviving full bodied invalid vehicle in NZ is bright red, theres this Tippen Delta (which is listed as a Delta 4 but has a Delta 5 chassis number go figure), a Tippen Delta 8, and a Harper Mk 6B all the same bright red, sadly apart from the Delta 8 (which is in a museum @dollywobbler visited during his trip), I dont know who they are with currently

(there is supposedly a Harper Mk 6 convertible that went up for sale at an auction in NZ a while back and this one was blue and wearing a very old NZ plate 22-189, but details on that one are scarce sadly)

 

Yo @LightBulbFun, look where I went last week:

 

One for @barrett and his Stymie Bold Italic Instagram page, Sadly, the shadowing  from the relentless beating sun somewhat stymied(!!!) the letters

 

Anyway, there was all sorts of interesting stuff inside (which I'll update in my spotted thread some time in the distant future) but I know you're only interested in one thing:

Here it is!

 

As you can see, it's rather penned in (and nestled beneath a fighter jet, which causes some shading issues for photos), so I tried to get some useful photos for reference but their framing wasn't always that pretty.

 

The AA sticker mentioning Wellington perhaps gives a clue as to this one's origins, although Wellington is our capital, so I'm not sure if that was some sort of reference back in the day, which differentiated it to the UK AA? I'd hoped the WOF sticker bottom right would be able to give some clue as to the era of its issue; it's not a style I'd seen before, so it's obviously old.

 

A glimpse inside (excuse iffy focus).

 

A good demonstration of how I could see the rear end but couldn't get my camera in place, due to the bracing for the jet's landing gear.

 

Here's the other rear three quarter, for completion.

 

Again, a somewhat dashed attempt at glimpse inside. The odometer isn't legible in this photo but the miles on it were low.

 

Just to reiterate (as I'm sure you already knew), this is most defo not an electric one!

 

And here's the blurb sign, which you may well note is different to the one in the quoted photo at the top. Confusing grammar aside in the final paragraph, this one actually seems to have some pertinent info! 

It does seem therefore that the Ministry of Health did have an invalid carriage scheme, which would tie in with the reason why survivors in NZ happen to be painted red. This may well not be news to you though, as this thread is forever evolving with info but I thought it'd be of interest!

But there was a little more to come....

 

[LightBulbFun]

23 minutes ago, Jon said:

Yo @LightBulbFun, look where I went last week:

 

One for @barrett and his Stymie Bold Italic Instagram page, Sadly, the shadowing  from the relentless beating sun somewhat stymied(!!!) the letters

 

Anyway, there was all sorts of interesting stuff inside (which I'll update in my spotted thread some time in the distant future) but I know you're only interested in one thing:

Here it is!

 

As you can see, it's rather penned in (and nestled beneath a fighter jet, which causes some shading issues for photos), so I tried to get some useful photos for reference but their framing wasn't always that pretty.

 

The AA sticker mentioning Wellington perhaps gives a clue as to this one's origins, although Wellington is our capital, so I'm not sure if that was some sort of reference back in the day, which differentiated it to the UK AA? I'd hoped the WOF sticker bottom right would be able to give some clue as to the era of its issue; it's not a style I'd seen before, so it's obviously old.

 

A glimpse inside (excuse iffy focus).

 

A good demonstration of how I could see the rear end but couldn't get my camera in place, due to the bracing for the jet's landing gear.

 

Here's the other rear three quarter, for completion.

 

Again, a somewhat dashed attempt at glimpse inside. The odometer isn't legible in this photo but the miles on it were low.

 

Just to reiterate (as I'm sure you already knew), this is most defo not an electric one!

 

And here's the blurb sign, which you may well note is different to the one in the quoted photo at the top. Confusing grammar aside in the final paragraph, this one actually seems to have some pertinent info! 

It does seem therefore that the Ministry of Health did have an invalid carriage scheme, which would tie in with the reason why survivors in NZ happen to be painted red. This may well not be news to you though, as this thread is forever evolving with info but I thought it'd be of interest!

But there was a little more to come....

 

oh thank you very much for grabbing some detailed photographs of this machine its one I have been very curious about for a long time! and im very happy and thankful to have some detailed photos of it finally  

I have often wondered if its the same Tippen Delta as this one papped 40-50 years ago in NZ

but I see it lacks the "handicapped driver" rear plate, however it has the same hard top which I have never seen on any other Tippen Delta and the Handicapped driver plate could have easily been removed or lost to time

so I still think it may be the same car (it looks to have a WOF sticker in the same place too!)

 

sadly the text in the plinth is just a verbatim excerpt copy from Stuarts small book, and is in reference to the British invalid scheme. and the Tippen Delta they have is a Tippen Delta 8 from between 1968 and 1970, not 1957!

(and so I still dont know exactly why all surviving full bodied (2 Tippen Delta's and a Harper Mk6) invalid vehicles in NZ are bright red, except for One Harper Mk6 which was/is blue but I dont have any pictures of that one or know what became of it)

 

 

you did not happen to grab a pic of or find out what its chassis number is? that would help out a lot!

but once again thank you for the photos  

[Mrs6C]

20 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

here is an image dump from the ebay listing to preserve the images after the listing is pulled by ebay when it ends

Good job you captured these, as the listing has gone already!

Well, it's still there if you go looking for the original one, but you know what I mean...

[LightBulbFun]

16 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Good job you captured these, as the listing has gone already!

Well, it's still there if you go looking for the original one, but you know what I mean...

so it is! gone just as quickly as it showed up, its a good thing I monitor ebay for these things at 3AM! LOL (but yeah its exactly why I captured the images as after a while once an ebay listing ends ebay purges the images/listing sadly)

I did share the listing with Adam earlier today, as seeing how quickly he got his 4 Model 70's road worthy and everything I shared the link with him hoping he might bid since going by aforementioned Model 70's it seems like he would be a good home for these some assembly required Argsons and he does seem to have some genuine interest in these types of vehicles in general  

so I have to wonder if he did a deal with the seller to acquire them? but im not sure, as he has not said anything to me yet but I have asked and I do hope so  

otherwise I do wonder who has got them (or why they have been marked as no longer available)

[LightBulbFun]

13 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

so it is! gone just as quickly as it showed up, its a good thing I monitor ebay for these things at 3AM! LOL (but yeah its exactly why I captured the images as after a while once an ebay listing ends ebay purges the images/listing sadly)

I did share the listing with Adam earlier today, as seeing how quickly he got his 4 Model 70's road worthy and everything I shared the link with him hoping he might bid since going by aforementioned Model 70's it seems like he would be a good home for these some assembly required Argsons and he does seem to have some genuine interest in these types of vehicles in general  

so I have to wonder if he did a deal with the seller to acquire them? but im not sure, as he has not said anything to me yet but I have asked and I do hope so  

otherwise I do wonder who has got them (or why they have been marked as no longer available)

Just heard back from Adam says he was busy with work so was unable to check it out until it was too late

so I have to wonder who got them or such, I just hope they have gone to a good home!

[LightBulbFun]

@keef shared this picture with me today and I was wondering if anyone has a clearer/higher rez version?

I ask because the registration on the Model 70 looks like a 3 number 3 letter ROI registration number which is most curious as I have never seen a ROI Model 70 before (well there was that one for sale in the ROI recently but I dont know sadly if that was a ROI private example or a far flung English/NI Ministry example, I still need to chase it up)

but back to the photo theres what looks like a Z in the middle of the 3 letters (which tells me its a ROI plate) and it looks like its spaced as a 6 character plate XXX XXX rather then as a 7 character plate which would be XXX XXXX

but its hard to say cuz its not very clear sadly

Keef found the picture here for those curious https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=1807882&i=5240

I think the picture was taken in England tho so if its a ROI Model 70 then it sure has travelled quite the distance!

[purplebargeken]

Just lost track a little bit. How goes the work on your little blue buggy?

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, purplebargeken said:

Just lost track a little bit. How goes the work on your little blue buggy?

haha yeah I really do ramble on dont I! I appreciate the check in  

progress has sadly been a bit slower then I would have liked as she is up at the FoD still and im still stuck in Central London 

and with all thats been going means I and other kind shitters who have been helping me out, have not be able to get up to the FoD to sort her out sadly

 

however slowly but surely I think we are getting there

 

 

since you last drove her, we sorted out the throttle cable so it no longer jams on, but its still far too stiff, to actuate so it still needs looking at

I think its suffering from the same issue that @dollywobbler's Handbrake cable is, where the inner cable is binding inside the outer cable as I noticed that when the outer was not tied in place to the bulkhead, that the outer sheath would come away from the throttle grip like how the outer sheath of @dollywobbler's handbrake cable outer comes away from the bulkhead when he releases the handbrake, (and I should not have to tie the throttle cable to the bulkhead!)

but in my case I am working with a brand new cable inner and outer so im not sure what the issue is, maybe it does just need a good lube/oiling still (I know @Zelandeth's throttle cable in TPA has an actual lubrication point on it)

but I also would like to replace the twist grip itself as the one on her is quite sad, I have one just like whats in TPA that I would like to fit, but the throttle cable outer I currently have fitted is too skinny for it, so I might have to buy a new throttle cable out anyway (or buy another twist grip, but im not sure what I need there exactly to ensure its compatible with the existing cable outer)

 

I bought new Falken SN807 145R10 Radials tyres and @Slowsilver very kindly fitted them to REV for me in place of the ancient cracked and bulging Camac BC110 5.20-10 crossply tyres she was wearing when I got her

which im very happy about as tyres are one of the major road worthiness things

 

she has also been fitted with a Temporary plastic marine/boat fuel tank so she can run around the FoD, while a fellow shitter is very kindly fabricating a suitable fuel tank from a Jerry can, for REV, as a Jerry can is actually near identical to a Model 70 Fuel tank dimensions wise, it just needs the handles removed and the appropriate ports and holes added for the sender and breather and fuel outlet to the pump etc, sadly her existing tank was beyond saving (it was patch work quilt masquerading as a fuel tank from what I understand)

(the Marine tank would be fine on its own I think but it does not have any provisions for the sender and im not sure how compatible it is with the existing mounting system although it sits in the existing bottom cradle just fine but its not my fuel tank so im not about to cutting holes in it etc!)

 

so in terms of road worthiness she just needs her brakes looking at to see what state they are in and what they need doing, as they are currently an Unknown

and all her electrical niggles sorted out, main thing there is get her rear lights/indicators all working her horn working and replace the headlamps with new H4 units

 

the Electrical niggles im not worried about, I think it just mostly a case of clean up and remake/replace a few bullet connections here and there and clean up all the obligatory dodgy earths and im pretty well versed in all things electrical (electrical things/electronics being one of my other hobbies)

 

but Im a little bit worried about the brakes as I have 0 experience with any sort of brakes! but hopefully they can be sorted without too much issue, said work is currently awaiting the completion of the new FoD Barn, as trying to do brake work on grass probably wont end well!

and I do otherwise think I have all the bits needed to do a full brake system overhaul if that is what is required, so yeah hopefully it can all be sorted without too much issue

 

we also replaced the spark plugs and I do have fresh jug of 20W50 oil waiting so I can finally do an oil change at some point as I dont know when she was last serviced! (and I have a few oil filters in the spares stash)

id like to also like change all the other fluids like the Gearbox and diff oil as well as do all the grease points if possible as again I dont know when any of that was last done

 

but yeah she is not all that far away from road worthiness all things considered  but it sure has been taking far longer then I anticipated and I feel bad for how long she has sat on grass for!

 

and last of all she needs a damn good clean! as she is literally going green!

 

 

we (with Zels magic carb work) also managed to get @Mrs6C Model 70, Dolly, to idle finally, so that meant she could move under her own power finally  (although its clear she has dropped a clutch shoe lining or 3 sadly, luckily we have new clutch shoes and old ones can also be relined but to get them replaced is is an engine out job...)

 

Dolly was also fitted with new tyres and spark plugs at the same time  im hoping as I/we recommission REV that Dolly can be recommissioned as well at the same time

 

oh and on top of all of this I still have to pass my driving test LOL and that has not exactly gone to plan either but hopefully ill pass before the world ends!

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think the picture was taken in England

It's Malton crossing, next to Malton signal box, on the Scarborough line. The train is the 'Scarborough Spa Express' pulled by 'City of Truro' sometime after 1981...

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

It's Malton crossing, next to Malton signal box, on the Scarborough line. The train is the 'Scarborough Spa Express' pulled by 'City of Truro' sometime after 1981...

ah awesome thats good to know, I saw some people mention so in the source of the photo, so its good to have it confirmed  

[Eyersey1234]

49 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah awesome thats good to know, I saw some people mention so in the source of the photo, so its good to have it confirmed  

I thought it looked like Malton, it's about an hour and a half from me. Bit of trivia, there are two towns either side of the river, Malton and Norton, both with basically the same things in them. The reason is pre 1974 the river was the boundary between the East Riding of Yorkshire and the North Riding of Yorkshire. 

[Eyersey1234]

4 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I thought it looked like Malton, it's about an hour and a half from me. Bit of trivia, there are two towns either side of the river, Malton and Norton, both with basically the same things in them. The reason is pre 1974 the river was the boundary between the East Riding of Yorkshire and the North Riding of Yorkshire. 

Also Malton Station and signal box are technically in Norton

[purplebargeken]

Brilliant progress. Hopefully once this all settles down......

Cheers for that ....

[LightBulbFun]

14 hours ago, purplebargeken said:

Brilliant progress. Hopefully once this all settles down......

Cheers for that ....

Thanks!

yeah I very much look forward to when FoD gatherings and driving lessons can resume!

 

in other Model 70w news these 2

On 18/01/2021 at 23:26, LightBulbFun said:

I see KPC538P's new V5 has finally been issued  

amusingly adam got the usual "your V5 will be with you shortly" letter from the DVLA just over a week ago, but for GPF282N!

which is still showing its last V5 issued as 1995

so I have to wonder if the DVLA clerk got slightly confused with the multiple V62's adam sent!

 

speaking of paperwork, I won the Model 70 Drivers Handbook and its been marked as dispatched  

 

On 19/01/2021 at 13:28, LightBulbFun said:

nope just the DVLA being the DVLA, GPF282N had its V5 issued yesterday  (I was wondering because the Pre V5 letter said a V5 would be issued on the 16th but that was a weekend!)

(ill have to double check with Adam if he did or did not get a pre V5 letter from the DVLA on KPC538P)

 

had their V5's arrive recently and have duly been taxed  

 

and Adam has also got a "V5 will be with you soon" letter for VJN960S (curiously he never got one for KPC538P, the V5 just got issued and turned up, no Pre V5 letter with that one for whatever reason)

[Jon]

On 1/28/2021 at 10:15 AM, LightBulbFun said:

oh thank you very much for grabbing some detailed photographs of this machine its one I have been very curious about for a long time! and im very happy and thankful to have some detailed photos of it finally  

I have often wondered if its the same Tippen Delta as this one papped 40-50 years ago in NZ

but I see it lacks the "handicapped driver" rear plate, however it has the same hard top which I have never seen on any other Tippen Delta and the Handicapped driver plate could have easily been removed or lost to time

so I still think it may be the same car (it looks to have a WOF sticker in the same place too!)

 

sadly the text in the plinth is just a verbatim excerpt copy from Stuarts small book, and is in reference to the British invalid scheme. and the Tippen Delta they have is a Tippen Delta 8 from between 1968 and 1970, not 1957!

(and so I still dont know exactly why all surviving full bodied (2 Tippen Delta's and a Harper Mk6) invalid vehicles in NZ are bright red, except for One Harper Mk6 which was/is blue but I dont have any pictures of that one or know what became of it)

 

 

you did not happen to grab a pic of or find out what its chassis number is? that would help out a lot!

but once again thank you for the photos  

 

I wasn't aware that the roof was not a standard Tippen fitment, until you mentioned it. And yes, that WOF sticker looks to be in the same place - jaunty angle and all! As I said though, I wasn't able to get any closer to try and find any further details...

But then, as I was taking a photo of a Mercedes, a guy passing by (the first other person I'd seen walking round in at least 30 minutes) struck up a conversation, asking if I liked Benzes. He knew the staff and had gained permission to take down the ropes to photograph their 300SL for a Mercedes owner's club magazine. So I asked him if he reckoned they'd mind me taking a look at the Tippen! So off we went.

As you can imagine, I didn't want to take up too much of his time (and I'd also been in the museum a while, whilst Mrs_Jon was waiting patiently in the cafe) and didn't have my wide angle lens with me, so had to resort to my phone camera, so was limited with what I could gather. But here goes:

 

First up, the WOF sticker. Despite the backlighting and faded biro, I reckon that states an expiration date of 22nd Jan 1976. Or maybe 1974, I don't know! either would tie in with the timeline suggested by the guy who took the B&W shot, anyway. I can also see Tippen written on the sticker but no rego, which really is the most important bit. So I'm wondering whether this might suggest that invalid carriages weren't issued registration numbers back in the day?! It's all purely speculation until more information is found out!

 

The service records to suggest that it last had something of note undertaken in 1972 - does that look like 4764 in the central part of the sticker below?

 

If so, then it didn't see a lot of miles after that - and indeed, hasn't seen a lot of miles, full stop. With the numbers of years it seems to have been in service, I'd say the mileage could be pretty accurate.

 

At this point, I was just nabbing off anything I thought might be of interest inside, in lieu of that fact I annoyingly couldn't get a shot of the whole cab. I'm assuming this is a kill switch to turn it off - certainly doesn't look easy to use, even if it might've have a nob at the end originally.

 

The best I could get of the interior. I like the side bolster, which is just painted wood!

 

I think the reasoning behind this photo snippet was to show that the inside of the roof was not painted but also to show what I thought was the original colour in the fibre glass/gel coat. I didn't see any evidence of pale blue anywhere.

 

Again, this all looks like an original shade to me. Plus I thought that the lock and latch mechanisms looked quite interesting - arguably the most complex and well constructed bit of the car! And yes, that is a segment of my leg - my first sit in an invalid carriage.

 

An outside view of the handle bar set-up. It does all look very clean in there, again a good indication of light use.

 

I wasn't sure if these would've had seat belts fitted originally, so thought this might be of some use for reference.

 

Clear evidence of some overspray here, though who knows whether it was done in service or as a museum tart up effort. I'm guessing the latter, although I'm sure this museum is able to churn out some restos of higher quality than this.

I'm also guessing that the ducting around the exhaust silencer is some sort of rudimentary heat exchanger set up to warm the cab?

 

And I'm sorry to end this on such a low but this was the last image I took, single handed trying to focus the phone and press the shutter button at the same time, whilst my other arm was propping up the bonnet. I couldn't actually see what I was taking a photo of but it did confirm to me at least that it was Villiers powered. A lot of crud is attached though, which I wouldn't expect with the miles. At least it's genuine, period crud, though.

I'm also sorry that I was unable to find a serial number, which I was really hoping would be possible. I couldn't find anything in the cab and couldn't even work out how to go about looking on the chassis at the front end, or even if there was a removable panel at the front? Just looked like a single piece to my untrained eye.

However, I did also see a couple of other things of interest:

Excuse the blur but it's a relevant subject.

 

One which has been wheelchair converted (note also the bonus light fitting reflections!)

 

And which was seemingly the personal transport of the museum creator, to boot.

 

And yes, that is an Elswick Envoy behind!

 

One of the very last black plates issued on this one - the 'N' series white plates were introduced only a few weeks later. Interestingly*, this was registered only 5 days before my Visa, which has an MW plate. 

 

The CUSTOMBUILT thing is still a title designation given to vehicles today, mostly to home made trailers. I'm guessing that kit cars or custom cars would be the same, though I've not checked. Presumably, this was the easiest way for the office staff to designate it a licence, at the time. 

According to Carjam, this was deregistered only 3 months after the rego expired. In the old days, that would've meant this would be issued with brand new plates if it were to see the road again but you can now apply to reinstate the old plates when re-registering, provided that they're legible and that someone hasn't bought the rego as a private plate.

 

Elswick blurb. Surprised that they only produced 20 examples if that is true, as I recall the shell of one hanging around the engineering part of Sunderland Uni, when I studied there from 1999 - 2002. Which means that I've seen 10% of the ones produced!

 

And finally, back on track with the tripods. It wasn't until I was several kilometers north, driving home that it dawned on me that this was painted red, so may well also have been a Ministry of Health issued vehicle? Which made it all the more frustrating that I hadn't taken a photo of the blurb, as it may well have confirmed this. Ah well!

Sadly, I'm not sure when I'd be able to re-visit to right my wrongs, as it's over 5hrs drive away and I'm not usually kicking about that part of the country with time to spare. But it may not hurt for me to get in touch with them and ask if they'd be able to shine any more light on their exhibits, or even on the history of invalid carriages in NZ?

 

 

 

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Jon said:

 

I wasn't aware that the roof was not a standard Tippen fitment, until you mentioned it. And yes, that WOF sticker looks to be in the same place - jaunty angle and all! As I said though, I wasn't able to get any closer to try and find any further details...

But then, as I was taking a photo of a Mercedes, a guy passing by (the first other person I'd seen walking round in at least 30 minutes) struck up a conversation, asking if I liked Benzes. He knew the staff and had gained permission to take down the ropes to photograph their 300SL for a Mercedes owner's club magazine. So I asked him if he reckoned they'd mind me taking a look at the Tippen! So off we went.

As you can imagine, I didn't want to take up too much of his time (and I'd also been in the museum a while, whilst Mrs_Jon was waiting patiently in the cafe) and didn't have my wide angle lens with me, so had to resort to my phone camera, so was limited with what I could gather. But here goes:

 

First up, the WOF sticker. Despite the backlighting and faded biro, I reckon that states an expiration date of 22nd Jan 1976. Or maybe 1974, I don't know! either would tie in with the timeline suggested by the guy who took the B&W shot, anyway. I can also see Tippen written on the sticker but no rego, which really is the most important bit. So I'm wondering whether this might suggest that invalid carriages weren't issued registration numbers back in the day?! It's all purely speculation until more information is found out!

 

The service records to suggest that it last had something of note undertaken in 1972 - does that look like 4764 in the central part of the sticker below?

 

If so, then it didn't see a lot of miles after that - and indeed, hasn't seen a lot of miles, full stop. With the numbers of years it seems to have been in service, I'd say the mileage could be pretty accurate.

 

At this point, I was just nabbing off anything I thought might be of interest inside, in lieu of that fact I annoyingly couldn't get a shot of the whole cab. I'm assuming this is a kill switch to turn it off - certainly doesn't look easy to use, even if it might've have a nob at the end originally.

 

The best I could get of the interior. I like the side bolster, which is just painted wood!

 

I think the reasoning behind this photo snippet was to show that the inside of the roof was not painted but also to show what I thought was the original colour in the fibre glass/gel coat. I didn't see any evidence of pale blue anywhere.

 

Again, this all looks like an original shade to me. Plus I thought that the lock and latch mechanisms looked quite interesting - arguably the most complex and well constructed bit of the car! And yes, that is a segment of my leg - my first sit in an invalid carriage.

 

An outside view of the handle bar set-up. It does all look very clean in there, again a good indication of light use.

 

I wasn't sure if these would've had seat belts fitted originally, so thought this might be of some use for reference.

 

Clear evidence of some overspray here, though who knows whether it was done in service or as a museum tart up effort. I'm guessing the latter, although I'm sure this museum is able to churn out some restos of higher quality than this.

I'm also guessing that the ducting around the exhaust silencer is some sort of rudimentary heat exchanger set up to warm the cab?

 

And I'm sorry to end this on such a low but this was the last image I took, single handed trying to focus the phone and press the shutter button at the same time, whilst my other arm was propping up the bonnet. I couldn't actually see what I was taking a photo of but it did confirm to me at least that it was Villiers powered. A lot of crud is attached though, which I wouldn't expect with the miles. At least it's genuine, period crud, though.

I'm also sorry that I was unable to find a serial number, which I was really hoping would be possible. I couldn't find anything in the cab and couldn't even work out how to go about looking on the chassis at the front end, or even if there was a removable panel at the front? Just looked like a single piece to my untrained eye.

However, I did also see a couple of other things of interest:

Excuse the blur but it's a relevant subject.

 

One which has been wheelchair converted (note also the bonus light fitting reflections!)

 

And which was seemingly the personal transport of the museum creator, to boot.

 

And yes, that is an Elswick Envoy behind!

 

One of the very last black plates issued on this one - the 'N' series white plates were introduced only a few weeks later. Interestingly*, this was registered only 5 days before my Visa, which has an MW plate. 

 

The CUSTOMBUILT thing is still a title designation given to vehicles today, mostly to home made trailers. I'm guessing that kit cars or custom cars would be the same, though I've not checked. Presumably, this was the easiest way for the office staff to designate it a licence, at the time. 

According to Carjam, this was deregistered only 3 months after the rego expired. In the old days, that would've meant this would be issued with brand new plates if it were to see the road again but you can now apply to reinstate the old plates when re-registering, provided that they're legible and that someone hasn't bought the rego as a private plate.

 

Elswick blurb. Surprised that they only produced 20 examples if that is true, as I recall the shell of one hanging around the engineering part of Sunderland Uni, when I studied there from 1999 - 2002. Which means that I've seen 10% of the ones produced!

 

And finally, back on track with the tripods. It wasn't until I was several kilometers north, driving home that it dawned on me that this was painted red, so may well also have been a Ministry of Health issued vehicle? Which made it all the more frustrating that I hadn't taken a photo of the blurb, as it may well have confirmed this. Ah well!

Sadly, I'm not sure when I'd be able to re-visit to right my wrongs, as it's over 5hrs drive away and I'm not usually kicking about that part of the country with time to spare. But it may not hurt for me to get in touch with them and ask if they'd be able to shine any more light on their exhibits, or even on the history of invalid carriages in NZ?

 

 

 

 

 

oh thats very awesome thank you very much for grabbing those pictures  Detailed Tippen Delta pictures are far and few between, so im very grateful to have these  

 

here is the source where I found the BW picture, curiously he says he took it in 1972, but the WOF sticker says 1976 im pretty sure!

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/72237-1960s-car-for-handicapped-driver

very cool to see it was indeed Coloured red from the Factory, Tippen delta did offer multiple colours but to private buyers only of course! 

Mandarin Red is listed in this 1959-1960~ brochure for the Tippen Delta, have to wonder if its the same colour as this Museum Delta! (googling Mandarin red does show similar colours)

 

the lever in the cabin you pictured is the fuel control, turns on and off the fuel tap, and I think there is also a reserve option  (keep in mind theres no fuel gauge!)

 

indeed on the overspray picture, that is a heat exchanger for providing cabin warmth etc and is also where the VIN plate is located, do you see the 2 rivets to the left, and the vague outline of a rectangular metal plate with rounded corners?

thats the Chassis/VIN plate taunting/teasing me (but its good to have that general overview shot, as I knew it was located on a chassis member like that, but I did not know exactly where)

im really curious as to what it says, I THINK private Tippen Delta's ran in their own chassis number series separate  to Ministry ones, but I only have vague data in this regard up to possibly the Delta 7, this and OWK911G are the only private Tippen Delta 8's I have seen and I dont know either ones chassis number sadly so id be very interested in finding out and see just how the private Tippen Delta 8 chassis numbers worked  

 

so if you do end up back there please try and grab a close up picture of that chassis plate for me!  

 

(interesting spot on the Gorden, they where not built as an invalid vehicle, but some where converted to hand controls in period, and it is the same shade of red as you say!)

 

on the Elswick envoy its worth noting that the NZ Tippen Delta 5 PR471 is also registred as a CUSTOMBUILT but then goes onto say "Tippen Delta IV"

https://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=PR471

(pleased to see its had a WOF fairly recently! ) 

 

and curiously so is the Harper Mk6 11SCW  

https://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=11SCW

 

once again thank you for the detailed photographs they will be very useful in my continued research  

[somewhatfoolish]

42 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

 

once again thank you for the detailed photographs they will be very useful in my continued research  

Which reminds me, and I do remember asking previously but can't remember when; did anyone advance any further with the electric Harper?

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Which reminds me, and I do remember asking previously but can't remember when; did anyone advance any further with the electric Harper?

im not sure I dont think so sadly,

it is very much on my list of places to visit once im on the road with REV if no one else gets there before me (as I do know its exact location at least its last known location, so I should hopefully be able to punch the details into a GPS and find my way there)

but I do hope it is found and saved sooner rather then later 

would make for a Gr8 lockdown project LOL