Sold Stanky's Geep - fire sale

[oldcars]

You are over a decade out of date.

Most of us on here are more than a decade out of date.

[Slartibartfast]

We've had that woman from Emerdale and Harry Hill take over since then.

[Exiled_Tat_Gatherer]

We've had that woman from Emerdale and Harry Hill take over since then.

 

May and Trump?

[Stanky]

Right, took the various starter motors to a grumpy man in a shed this morning, he advised that we try sticking 24v through the starter motor to see if that livens things up a bit. He suggested that since we hadn't heard the engine running yet, the priority was to determine that the engine wasn't fundamentally broken before we repaired the starter motor.

 

This makes sense, does anyone local have a 24v jump pack by any chance?

 

Six-Cylinder has also very kindly offered to lend me his bendix spring compressor so I might just try changing the innards over anyway before applying 24v and see if that fixes things. The grumpy man did confirm that my suspicion that the innards of the two starters I have are identical, and its just a case of changing the end plate and pinion gears over which should be easy* once the bendix spring is compressed and circlip removed.

[PhilA]

Got 2 batteries and 3 jump leads?

[DodgeRover]

Be careful you only need 24v to the starter NOT to the rest of the electrics so think it through before connecting up

[Pillock]

Aye, exactly that.

 

24V across the starter will give it a bit of oomph.

 

24V across the dash bulbs, coil, fuel pump etc will make pretty smoke signals.

[Stanky]

So ignition on, normal 12v battery hooked up.

 

12v cable disconnected from the starter motor, then 24v +ve applied to starter terminal and -ve clamped to the chassis? So there is only 24v connected to the starter, and only for a few seconds at a time?

[Stanky]

I should be able to fix the starter motor myself in a couple of days time - that was the really valuable bit of info I gleaned from the guy.

 

Both starters spin up happily when 12v is applied on the bench, but the old one seems to be very tired when it actually under load. Hopefully the new (to me) one with be a bit more sprightly once fitted.

 

I'll stick some oil down the spark plug holes tonight if I remember to make sure the pistons are nicely lubricated in advance of the refitting of the starter.

[xtriple]

It wasn't that long ago that any factor in town had loads of old (new) starters on the shelf and they were dead cheap unless it was a pre-engaged job, and even they were pretty inexpensive compared to today. I had a starter from an old Ford crossflow and binned it as it was worth sod all and no one wanted it!

 

Good luck with getting it sorted. Personally I would be inclined to swapping the bits to make one good starter if possible rather than 24V it, too long with double the volts could do some damage?

 

If you are sure now that the timing is close enough, the firing order is correct (rotor arm pointing at the no 1 lead regardless of what Hynes says 'should be no 1, oh and the correct side of the rotor arm coming up to the correct point as it is dead easy to get the rotation wrong in your head and your timing is then miles out) then I would get someone else to crank it over while you hold your palm over the intake on the carb, it's an old trick that old Fords seemed to like if they had been stood for a while, gets them to suck harder and gets some fuel in. It has always worked for me.

[richardthestag]

Aye but make sure it's in a vice first!

 

do it on the floor with a foot on it. always worked for me and I still have two feel and two hands

 

connect jump lead to earth and flash the +ive on the terminal. note can arc weld itself on

[richardthestag]

slow starter when fitted to the car could be

 

tired electrics

tired starter

tight engine

 

does the engine turn over with a socket on the crank pulley?

 

If so, connect a dedicated earth from battery to engine block, use a jump lead from battery +ive to terminal on back of starter, does it spin faster?

 

yes - wiring fault probably dried up or broken joint

no - fucked starter

[Stanky]

Engine turns over fine with a spanner on the crank pulley. Starter churns engine over fine with plugs removed, and they spark as they should.

 

Wiring is decidedly ropey and in the process of being replaced by new cables and eyelets.

 

Starter seems very iffy and is clearly worn from rubbing on something along a 1" wide section  - heavy scoring and black marks are present. The replacement one is clean, smooth metal.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Have you actually tried starting it with a jump off another running car?

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Stanky]

Yes, several times off of Mitsisigma's uhhhh Mitsisigma. No dice - it turns, but won't fire - believed due to the huge current draw of the current, buggered, starter.

[DodgeRover]

How thick are your jump leads? Anything with a diameter less than an average thumb is a waste of time.

[johngarty]

How thick are your jump leads? Anything with a diameter less than an average thumb is a waste of time.

 

Mine are very thick, they dont even know which way round they go

[The Moog]

You are over a decade out of date.

Slightly the point....

[Talbot]

Slightly the point....

I realised a few nanoseconds after I put the post up.. but I'm not one for deleting posts, so just left it there..

[Stanky]

Since it wasn't raining, I had a couple of hours tinkering on the Geep again today. The jobs to do were to oil the bores and cam and rocker arms, then have a look at the rear brakes.

 

Familar sight. Plugs out

 

Deploy weapons

 

 

I put a squeeze of 10w/40 down each bore, then got the 16mm spanner and started turning the engine by hand on the end bolt on the crank. This sucked, so rather than keep nipping my fingers in the fan blades I went and refitted the starter motor. It didn;t turn the engine over quickly, but it did turn over by itself so that'd do. I hooked up the battery to the starter motor with a jump lead and turned the engine by touching the jump lead on the battery terminal. I gave it about a dozen 10-second bursts with some time to cool down in between.

 

Next up, remove rocker cover. This is held down with 4 phillips-head bolts/screws. These were torqued down to 'toddler' plus a 1/32th turn.

 

 

 

 

All looks pretty clean in here. I'm pretty pleased with that.

 

Observe my testing

 

 

Seems Ok right?

 

Next up, have a good look at the fuel filter as fuel was coming through very slowly.

 

 

Also reasonably clean - I gave the filter a blast out with carb cleaner and a wipe over with a rag and refitted it. Is there any more you can get to other than this?

 

 

This concluded the work in the engine bay. I put the plugs back in and spun it over on the starter again. This was noticably slower than without. I put a squirt of oil in the fan bearings and a tiny drip into the alternator bearings and spun it over a bit more to work it in. It seemed to turn better so possible either were a bit sticky, and/or the alternator bearings are kippered? or possibly fine.

 

Next up, the rear brakes. I whacked out the trolley jack and an axle stand, jacked it up and put the stand in place

 

 

Wheel off, which was a piece of cake, and then used a big screwdriver to gently lever the drum off the hub

 

 

BOIIIING

 

 

Well, thats not very clean is it?

 

I broke out the sandpaper and gave it a good seeing to, then got the flapwheel thing for the drill, held it down and tidied it right up

 

 

 

Lots better I think? No scoring and back to clean metal. Next to be looked at was the shoes, cylinder and general insides of the drum.

 

 

Not too bad on the drivers side. the cylinder still worked as the handbrake operated on this wheel fine, I gave the shoes a going over with my wire brush to clean them up and abrade them a bit. Loads of rust came off but I gave it all a good clean out and replaced the drum and whacked the wheel back on, copperslipping the wheel studs and the edge of the hub as it fits into the drum very lightly as i suspect they will need to be back off again at some point.

 

Over to the other side

 

 

This was a complete c-unit to remove. I tried to replicate the success on the driver side, but the drum was very very well corroded to the hub. It took ages gently levering all round the edge, then trying two screwdrivers on opposite sides, then penetrating oiling the hub/centre bore of the drum, then going round tapping it with a hammer, then gently chiselling the join, then more oil, then more hammering, then I swore a bit, and everntually managed to lever it off after about 20 minutes. It might have come out quicker if I'd been more viloent but I really didn't want to break the drum.

 

 

This one was even more rusty, I'm not sure why really, but it was. I gave it the same treatment as the other side

 

 

Much better. The shoes got a going over with the wire brush, when I'd finished it did dawn on me that there was quite possibly asbestos in the friction material but it was too late by this point. I was mildly dismayed to find that the cylinder in this drum did nothing on application of the handbrake. Absolutely nada, so its possibly seized? Can they be replaced?

 

As there wasn't much else I could do I put it back together and lightly copperslipped the threads the wheels go on, and the bit where the drum and hub connect. Looks like it needs a new cylinder, or this one freeing off or something. So at present we have at least 25% functioning brakes which is a plus.

 

I gave the engine a few more spins then packed up and went out to do the weekly food shop. thats all for now. Interestingly, thre battery still had good charge today, it lasted loads longer than previously, and was still churning it over happily at the end of the session.

 

Thanks for tuning in.

 

 

 

[Zelandeth]

Batteries will sometimes revive themselves if they've been sitting for a long time after a few reasonably full charge/discharge cycles - albeit never back to their original full rated capacity.

[drum]

Are you sure the handbrake is supposed to operate the wheel cylinders? I would expect a cable operating a lever that acts on the shoe.

 

I can't remember if you've checked the brake fluid level, but if you suspect the cylinders are seized try pressing the pistons in with a clamp.

[dollywobbler]

What he said. Handbrake is usually purely mechanical.

[Stanky]

Ah, thats good - the handbrake definitely doesn't do anything on that wheel when applied, but I can take it apart again and see what it does do when the handbrake is applied.

[dollywobbler]

On the Invacar, there's a cable-operated lever that slots into the bottom of one shoe. All simple stuff.

 

Which is why it's all the more annoying that removing and refitted shoes somehow manages to be a complete trial for me.

[Mally]

Yes its just the levers at the side of the wheel cylinders for handbrake.

Usually seize up on the rivet, need to disconnect the cable and take the lever out and waggle it about.

[Stanky]

To address the fuel delivery concerns I've just bought a load of 8mm fuel pipe, p-clips and 6mm pipe for pump -> carb which should arrive in the week, so thats a job for next weekend, along with trying to coax the engine into life. Hopefully I can put a good starter together from the best bits of the two i have here in the week as well.

[320touring]

Make sure you video everything as I think the collective sigh of relief here when it fires will be enormous:)

[1duck]

you considered an electric inline fuel pump, they are quite handy little things and if it turns out to be excess to requirements it never hurts to have one lying around. You can get them for under 20 quid. I'd see how you get on at the point, but worth mentioning.

[Guest Hooli]

Handbrakes have to be separate to the normal wheel brakes. MOT & other regs say it has to be a secondary braking system rather than part of the primary.