Volvos, 940, 760, 850, V70, V90, WTF?

[garethj]

Hello, my name is Gareth and... it's really difficult to say this.... I don't understand the different Volvo models.  There, I've said it.

 

I've had a 740 and I know what that is.  Boxy, RWD estate, mine was 2.3 but 2 litres were sometimes available.  Turbos were made but rare, 4 speed manual with overdrive, flippin' tough old thing that didn't seem to rust but with slightly flaky electrics.

 

What was the deal with the later ones?  Are they any good?  Which is the gem and which should be avoided?  Are 10 valves alright or are 20 valves where it's at?  Are the 4 wheel drive ones any good?  Are the diesels alright?  We had a 1999 S80 2.4 petrol and that was good when it was working but impossible to put the engine management light out.

 

I can look up car reviews and road tests but it's difficult when I don't even know what I should be looking at.

 

Ta.

[LabRat]

Avoid the 2.0 10 valve in the 850- it struggles to pull the weight and needs thrashing to get any semblance of speed out of it.

 

850's are fwd, fairly stiffly sprung compared to the older rwd models. All come with 5 pot 10 or 20 valve petrols and a 5 dizzler courtesy of Audi. Electrics can be flaky, especially the early abs modules (dry joints).

 

For straight line fun, a 2.3 20 valve turbo t5 is ace, cornering isn't the best though. Dizzlers will nom veg I think.

 

Saloons are worth naff all and the estates aren't massive, but I'd have another like a shot, if I could find a decent tidy one.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phil_lihp]

All I know is a 940 is a revised 740, a V90/S90 is a mildly updated 940 and a 960 is a 6-cylinder 940.  This is somewhat irrelevant as the 2.3 LPT is all the engine anyone needs for anything ever and the saloon is a tad pointless.

 

Other opinions may vary.

[Bren]

All I know is most of them are north of the border.

[The Moog]

Had an 850 2.5 20v auto estate. Liked a drink. Decent load lugger. Plastic trim would break.

 

Not particularly quick although good on long shleps.

[Lankytim]

The later 960 and S/V90 is totally different under the skin to the 940. Even the wheel offset is different.

[phil_lihp]

Really?  I did not know that.  They certainly look a little more sleek and modern, remarkable really that they were still making them in 1998, 14 years after the original design came out.

[garethj]

This is adding to the confusion, wasn't an early S90 a facelifted RWD 960 but later S90s were FWD so based on the 850 or S80?

[Pillock]

Based on the Volvo naming convention, an 850 has five cylinders but no doors. A V70 presumably has 7 cylinders.

[phil_lihp]

So a C30 should be a smooth, refined powerhouse then!

[Lankytim]

This is adding to the confusion, wasn't an early S90 a facelifted RWD 960 but later S90s were FWD so based on the 850 or S80?

 

 

No, they were all RWD.

[Jim Bell]

The main thing to remember its to get either a :

 

940 2.3 Turbo (the FPT) pretty much all 940s are LPT.

or

A 740 LT TD

or

A V70 T4

or

an 850 T5.

[HMC]

One puzzling thing when I was thumbing through a brochure that came with my 760 turbo dizzler was that there was also a 760 6 cylinder petrol ( still with the Volvo logic at this stage) but also a 760 4 cylinder petrol turbo. I assumed it was a sort of posher trimmed 740 but wasn't that the 740GLE? At this stage I got bored and gave up my investigation none the wiser.

[320touring]

Davidfowler2000 to the yellow and blue phone!

[inconsistant]

A tacked on but relevant question, what does the D3/D4/D5 mean on the back of recent Vovlos?

Or should I fuck off to elsewhere more modern on the internet and ask them thankyouplease?

[Jim Bell]

A tacked on but relevant question, what does the D3/D4/D5 mean on the back of recent Vovlos?

Or should I fuck off to elsewhere more modern on the internet and ask them thankyouplease?

 

Not anything to do with the earlier awesome and better D5's, I'll tell you that much.

 

 

I think the 760's were available with just about every combination of engine and box.  Including 2.0, 2.3, 3.0 V6 and the dizzlers.

 

God strike me down if im off centre.

[Lacquer Peel]

D3/4/5 denotes the power of the engine. Slightly confusing.

They used the PSA 1.6 diesel in some cars but the 2.0 is a shrunken D5.

 

I own a mk1 V70 TDI with the 140bhp VW diesel. It's been very reliable even in my hands.

It feels like an old Volvo but handles a lot better.

The ride is slightly jittery but the seats are comfy which makes up for it.

It's easy to work on and there are lots of online guides. Parts are quite cheap.

Engine access is almost as good as the RWD models.

Would recommend.

[robinmasters]

Based on the Volvo naming convention, an 850 has five cylinders but no doors. A V70 presumably has 7 cylinders.

By the same logic, as a D5 used to be a five cylinder diesel, is a D2 some kind of terrible joke?

[Aston Martin]

 

You are still my favourite.

[Hendry]

A tacked on but relevant question, what does the D3/D4/D5 mean on the back of recent Vovlos?

Or should I fuck off to elsewhere more modern on the internet and ask them thankyouplease?

Me and a colleague looked this up because he was looking at a D5 and we assumed it was the 2.4, and that D2 is 1.6 whilst D3 and D4 were 2.0s but discovered whilst we were partly correct (D2 used to solely be a 1.6 and D5s were 2.4 and D3/4 were 2 litre so correct in that sense) the number now relates to the different power outputs not the engine sizes any longer.

[Vantman]

As a stop gap car I recently purchased an 850SE petrol 2.5,automatic,10v Saloon,currently on 91000miles. It's nice to drive apart from no leather,it has electrical gremlins relating to interior lights and central locking,fairly normal traits I think but I can live with them. Goes like stink when you kick down,especially in sport mode. It may be for sale soon though!

[gordonbennet]

The last of the 960/S90's i believe gained the rear suspension of the 8 series despite still being RWD.

 

Avoid the early 760 with the poxy Reno/Peug/Volvo shared V6 petrol, it can drink fuel like no other, gives no decent performance for it and can give problems.

 

Another anecdote for high spec 7/9 series estates, those with self levelling rear suspension, the Boge shockers are a bloody shocking price, you can fit normal shockers from the more sensible spec cars but the springs are stronger on the lower spec to compensate so if you change to normal dampers but leave the springs you'll get a saggy arse.

 

The gem to me is the 940 estate with the 2.4 VW Diesel van engine from the LT35 van, if you can find one that hasn't been to the moon, just give it half a turn in on the fuelling screw so you get a bit of black smoke under full throttle and it's one of the nicest and pleasant to drive old school simple cars ever made...given the extra fuelling it will lug right down to 1000rpm and still pull clean, so with the 4 speed manual with overdrive button on top the gearsticl you can travel most journeys just by flicking it in and out of OD.

I pulled 2 ton of sand in my trailer with ours and it never gave it a moments problem, by Christ we've kicked ourselves a few times for flogging that old stager on, replaced with a E320 Merc estate that went a like a scalded cat but was nothing but bloody trouble.

[Lukas]

I have to say since my short but painful affaire with a 2000 Volvo S80 2.4 (left me stranded 3 times in 5 month, electric problems etc. etc., you all know the story by now) I can´t get the Volvos out of my head. 

 

The seats were fantastic, no other car I had before or after felt so cosy. 

 

I often look at used Volvos from the 1990s because I´d like to have airbags (I hope I´ll never have to use them) and an AC (I do use that  ) and what I discovered is that most Volvo 850/S70/V70 have no test, have gone to the moon and back (twice or more times!) and are extremely cheap. Why is that? If they are that reliable and rustproof like everyone (on here) says, they must have a following, don´t they? But it does not seem like it. No good ones available, almost none of them on the streets anymore. Cant be all in Scotland. 

 

A Volvo-specialist near Vienna imports late 940 "Polar" and "Classic" from Italy, mostly from around Rome. They are well equipped (AC, Airbag, Velour etc.) with almost no rust at all and with less than 150.000km. And they sell quite fast for ~ 6500 Euro. Each, not 3 of them!   So the laste RWD-ones do have a following, definately. 

 

I once thought about getting me one, but I am not enthusiast enough to pay almost 7000 Euro for a Volvo 940 Estate. Because if someone crashed into the back of it at the first traffic-lights after I collect it, all I will get from the insurance is what? 2000 Euro? So it´s uninteresting to get one as a daily driver. 

 

But what I really would like to know but I fear no-one is able to answer that for me is: Was my Volvo S80 a bad example and I had just bad luck or are older FWD-Volvos all this fragile and problematic with their electronics? I would hate to get another one and discover that it´s as bad as mine was. 

 

Lukas

[Asimo]

Lukas, from the Volvo club website. This probably explains your experience.

 

The smart electrical system of the future
Although a car is not primarily experienced through its electrical system, the revolutionary new electrical system in the Volvo S80 has a natural position alongside engines, transmissions and chassis performance.

To give you an idea of what has happened to the electrical system in cars over the years, the first Volvo back in 1927 had four fuses, protecting a mere 30m of electrical cable.

Seventy years later, the Volvo of 1997 had 54 fuses for 1,200 m of cables and a host of functions, which were totally unknown in 1927. For example, the total computer power in the car is more than 6 Mb.

By tradition, each function has had its own system and each system has had one supplier. The capacity of the electrical system was measured in terms of the sum of the number of components

But this simply could not continue; the need for a radical change was pressing.

A new totality was needed, one system that could handle everything. All the components had to be able to communicate, "understand" one another's language, integrated within this one system. One specification, one supplier.

The Volvo S80 not only has a new electrical system - many cars have advanced electrical systems, the Volvo S80 features the multiplex system which is a new method for signal communications.

The electrical system is designed as a communication network of 18 computers with central control units and no fewer than 24 modules for most electrical functions. These modules function like computers and control the electrical functions in the car whenever necessary.

Multiplex technology involves only two cables. One of them is able to carry all the signals in the system at the same time. The other is the electrical cable which carries the necessary power. These cables run around the entire car and are known as the databus.

The information travels in digital packages. All the small network modules are able to recognise "their" signal for action and do as they are told.

When the signal "open left front window" arrives, for example, only one module (in the front door) reacts to it, receives it and transmits an "order" to the electric motor to lowen the window.

Signals are able continuously to alert and activate the different modules as a result of the capacity of the system, which also operates at two speeds depending on the function. The engine and transmission management uses a high-speed databus, whereas all the other functions use a slightly slower databus.

The benefits of the multiplex system are considerably fewer cables and connections in the car, improved reliability, communication between all the components and software adaptations, easier and improved opportunities for the retro-installation of electrical functions and so on.

The system also has the benefit of self-diagnosis for all functions, including engine management, making the OBD (On Board Diagnostics) unit even more important than before. Diagnosis is easier, as is servicing. Any information about a fault or malfunction is passed on to the driver by indicator lamps and a message display in the instrument cluster.

All the cables in the system are fitted in well-protected cable ducts.

The multiplex system in each car is programmed according to model specifications and fitted options.

[Tetleysmooth]

The pre '99 V70's are the best, in my opinion. After that, they were fitted with an Electronic Throttle Module, rather than a throttle cable. If these go wrong, and they quite often do, it can be an expensive job to put right, as the new module has to be 'married' to to the car. As far as I know, this can only be done by Volvo main agents, and they bum rape you.

The facelift V70 - post 2000 - not only has the ETM, but you can't just fit a replacement 'driver information centre' either. Once again, it has to be married to the car. This is why I favour the early Phase 1 V70. Simpler electronics.

 

Oh, and I think the V in V70, V40 etc, stands for Versatile, meaning estate in our language.

 

I'd love a V70 T5 auto myself. I have the 2.5 20 valve auto at the moment, and that will show a clean pair of heels to a good few cars.

[Tetleysmooth]

Sorry if I've doubled up on any info given in Sorn Me's post, but it was posted as I was typing my reply.

[gordonbennet]

My lad had and has now sold a 2007 S60, manual box with the 180hp Diesel, however i'm almost certain it had been remapped by a previous owner cos the bloody thing flew, i reckon it was pushing 240 easily the way it went.

 

He ran it for about 3 years from about 120k to 160k miles, nothing electrical bar a ABS sensor failed but that ended up an expensive job cos the effin front hub was seized on with so much rust that only the gas axe would shift it, appears to be quite common, as is the rear parking brake shoes parting company with their back plates leading to possible wheel lock and a wrecked rear hub etc...easy to fit new shoes whilst unseized so inspect these the same day you buy a used car.

 

To be fair it was a bloody good car, but being a saloon almost impossible to sell on, worth about half the price of an equivalent V70, averaged 40plus mpg driven hard which aint bad at all.

 

Turning circle of a supertanker mind.

 

 

If Sorn Me's excellent post on Multiplex doesn't make a shiter recoil in horror i'm buggered if i know what will.

18 computers, just fuck the fuck off.

[Lacquer Peel]

The pre '99 V70's are the best, in my opinion. After that, they were fitted with an Electronic Throttle Module, rather than a throttle cable. If these go wrong, and they quite often do, it can be an expensive job to put right, as the new module has to be 'married' to to the car. As far as I know, this can only be done by Volvo main agents, and they bum rape you.

The facelift V70 - post 2000 - not only has the ETM, but you can't just fit a replacement 'driver information centre' either. Once again, it has to be married to the car. This is why I favour the early Phase 1 V70. Simpler electronics.

 

Oh, and I think the V in V70, V40 etc, stands for Versatile, meaning estate in our language.

 

I'd love a V70 T5 auto myself. I have the 2.5 20 valve auto at the moment, and that will show a clean pair of heels to a good few cars.

My 1997 TDI has a "by wire" accelerator.

They aren't any more complex than most 1990s cars and are electrically reliable.

The wiring and modules in the newer ones are scarier but similar problems abound with most 21st century "executives".

[Tetleysmooth]

My 1997 TDI has a "by wire" accelerator.

They aren't any more complex than most 1990s cars and are electrically reliable.

The wiring and modules in the newer ones are scarier but similar problems abound with most 21st century "executives".

 

I had a look on the Volvo forum at the thread exclusively for ETM issues.

Really put me off buying a fly by wire later model.

 

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=81

[Alan_Green]

I thought these boxy Volvos were all called 245DLs' until I started reading this forum. Nor did I know they were remotely desirable. Now I feel I should get one to see what all the fuss is about. Might buy one in November if anyone has one they want to punt on. Still don't think they need a bunch of different names though.