LPG for shiters

[mat_the_cat]

Starting on gas doesn't need the enrichment that petrol does, and so old style single point systems can start fine on gas. So long as the coolant is above -40 degrees C or so which is the boiling point of propane.

With injection systems though, they take their pulse time from the petrol injectors (with a fiddle factor for gas pressure and temperature) so would be too rich when cold if copying the petrol system.

Plus there is a higher risk of the heavy ends (thick liquid) from the gas tank clogging the injectors if not fully warm.

There is no legal requirement for a certificate (now superceded by entry on a database) but insurance companies often require one. Check exactly what kind of approval yours is happy with...

[lisbon_road]

I am expecting my insurance to be a total nightmare as they wanted more than the original cost to change to a similar car - so I am prepared to cancel it as it doesn't have that long to run. 

 

The comment re petrol is interesting though.  I know from my own experience that gas doesn't need much enrichment, makes sense.  Seems a shame to have a petrol tank and all that stuff just for the first minute of running really.

[mat_the_cat]

With a mappable ECU you could run on LPG exclusively, although the ECU would probably need inputs to compensate for gas temperature and pressure. I've heard of people trying with Megasquirt though, but don't know how much success. It may be something that with a very stable reducer, you can get away without pressure compensation, especially on a pre-cat engine where the mixture isn't as critical.

 

Or, you could fool the petrol ECU into thinking that it's warm whenever you switch to gas, by switching in a fixed value resistor in place of the coolant temperature sensor (corresponding to a 'hot' value) whenever you changeover but that still leaves the heavy ends problem. Perhaps more frequent rebuilds of the gas injectors would be an acceptable side effect?

 

I've also considered a Kenlowe Hotstart, so you could switchover straight away. Could really pay for itself if you do a lot of short runs!

[lisbon_road]

So a mappable ecu still using the lpg ecu in piggyback as normal would work ok.

 

Again, seems a shame to do that as doubling up the reliability issues.  We could clearly get around it though.

[mat_the_cat]

That should work, yes - if you had one with the facility of two maps you could have one for petrol and one optimised for LPG although the main ECU would still think it's just firing the petrol injectors. To me it's a great fuel, spoilt slightly by the infrastructure and the compromise of also having to have the petrol capability.

[garethj]

If anyone fancies some DIY LPG LOLZ I've got a large gas tank in my garage with mounting frame and possibly some LPG hardware to go with it, but that depends on whether I can find it or not.  The gas tank is about 10" diameter and 46" long, yours for £20 if you can pick it up from Bedfordshire, PM me.

[lisbon_road]

I reckon I need to do something about the petrol map anyway as I have a modified cylinder head which when fitted didn't seem right.  It isn't fitted now but I'd like to put it back sometime.  And then there is the ignition map which must be miles out on lpg.  I do have an old AEB timing advance processor but I think it just advances a fixed amount which might be better than nothing - but can't be right still.

 

Agree with Mat, it is a great fuel and with all the concern about air quality now, I don't see why it isn't being advocated more?

[mat_the_cat]

Useful link regarding ignition timing:

http://www.acl.com.au/web/acl00056.nsf/0/359683e8a538a3e64a2566c0007bb33e?OpenDocument

[cros]

Started putting LPG into a Rover today so here it is blow by blow.

 

 1. First find corner of boot where you can unobtrusively mount the tank. You need a big tank cos they're better than small tanks. They hold more. If you don't have a car with a decent sized boot you have no taste and should remedy this by buying a Vauxhall Belmont. Photo shows the tank frame nicely bolted down so that in the event of your car running into the back of parked Scania you don't have the added inconvenience of 80 litres of LPG twatting you on the back of your head.

[Lankytim]

I'm considering converting my Minor, seeing as I have a conplete system in the garage..

[KruJoe]

A gassed-up Rover for sale in our very own parish:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/20777-shite-1995-rover-214sli-lpg-system-fitted-mot-etc/

[CHRIS1980]

Done Riga to Glasgow via Poland in 2 days-no that far;)

Would be interested in the route you took. My Mrs is Latvian and would love to do a road trip there one day.

[320touring]

Would be interested in the route you took. My Mrs is Latvian and would love to do a road trip there one day.

I shall get the 3 amigos together and apply rum to achieve recollection!

[cros]

I'm considering converting my Minor, seeing as I have a conplete system in the garage..

I put a traveller on LPG and heard its still around, it went fine. I only sold it because wooden cars are not ideal to run through the winter. Come to that steel ones not much better. Go for it!

[willswitchengage]

LPG is a smaller molecule so burns with a lot less soot, CNG cleaner still, so engine stays squeaky clean.

 

Some countries don't have an LPG infrastructure so watch it if you go abroad a lot - Spain iirc doesn't use the stuff at all. Italy it's the real third fuel.

 

I think the Channel Tunnel people ban it but I'm not sure.

 

Is it a straight conversion on carbs i.e. no dual fuelling on startup?

 

Just realised I've replied to the first post from like ten years ago. FAIL.

[cros]

Spain had 8 filling stations when I went in 2009, so they were a bit thin on the ground. I filled the Sherpa near Santander at a normal garage and in Andalucia at a gas depot. Maybe there are more at depots as they use lots of bottled gas and the place I called at just pumped it in at the bottling plant.

[Asimo]

^^^Like the mug!

[New POD]

It does worry me when I see a Range Rover converted to LPG, if they were struggling to afford to put fuel in it then I can see the rest of the car being run on a shoestring.

 

On the other hand, its a way to run a Jag or whatever on Focus money.

 

 

or rather, than piss 40p a mile up the wall using petrol, they can achieve 20p a mile, saving about £3K, over 15K miles, which would take about  Ã‚£4000 to earn before tax, and can be spent on repairs.

 

I have a diesel 04 accord. I was working with a lad who had a petrol/Lpg 04 accord, which a) cost £2K less than mine including him converting it, and it achieved the 13p a mile, my diesel achieves. I was somewhat jealous tbh.

[anonymous user]

Re: the LPG only Japanese taxis, doesn't Hirst on here have one?

[CHRIS1980]

Does anyone have any experience of LPG carbs. I think there's a brand called blos.

[CortinaDave]

What we need is a handy shiter who'd take on doing LPG conversions for us. Having run it before I bloody love it but given I tend to trundle around in 500 quidders until they fall apart or I get bored spending £13-1500 on gas makes no sense.

 

At 5-800 I might be in though

[320touring]

What we need is a handy shiter who'd take on doing LPG conversions for us. Having run it before I bloody love it but given I tend to trundle around in 500 quidders until they fall apart or I get bored spending £13-1500 on gas makes no sense.

 

At 5-800 I might be in though

Fair comment! Issue is that the kits can be upwards of 500(esp if more than 4cyl)..

[CortinaDave]

Yeah I know. I see secondhand kits around a lot though... But it's getting someone willing to fit them

[brickwall]

There's a guy in Cumbernauld that gets good news said about him. He will deal will all sorts of stuff; a bit of a fellow shite lover if I hear correctly.

[320touring]

There's a guy in Cumbernauld that gets good news said about him. He will deal will all sorts of stuff; a bit of a fellow shite lover if I hear correctly.

Furryboots?theres a chap in muirhed who is bloody helpful

[cros]

Does anyone have any experience of LPG carbs. I think there's a brand called blos.

I have a Blos on an MGB and it works OK, performance better than the restrictive SU mixer, but consumption seemed no better. However I've just bought a so-called 'stream mixer' which should do the same thing but with more cheapness. Will be putting it on this week.

  A long while back I tried the closed loop controller things they sell and though it also worked OK I didn't think it made enough difference to be worth bothering. Likewise the timing remapping modules- anything ancient like I drive won't have a curve that suits modern petrol so unless you are going to re-map for LPG on a rolling road I don't think there's much to gain.

[bub2006]

I do a lot of running around and lpg is between 58 and 60p here. Unleaded nearly double so I've toyed with idea of fitting it but it would have to be to a car I'd keep long term. I love the little xsara but it's not an auto so don't think this wil get it. Unless it's cheap obviously

[brickwall]

Furryboots?theres a chap in muirhed who is bloody helpful

 

 

 

I think this is the same guy. I believe he has a unit just off the Deerdykes road.

[The Moog]

What's the pay back period on LPG fitting to mpi?

[320touring]

I think this is the same guy. I believe he has a unit just off the Deerdykes road.

Nup, this chap des it fae his house