Bad Obsession Motorsport - Binky

[GrumpiusMaximus]

14 minutes ago, Sham said:

It's over reach for what YOU think they should do on their car. What YOU think they should do is utterly and completely irrelevant.

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

[St.Jude]

22 minutes ago, Sham said:

It's over reach for what YOU think they should do on their car. What YOU think they should do is utterly and completely irrelevant.

It's an over reach for a fucking PCB regardless of it's application and regardless of who does it.

Next video they'll be showing you how you could also make more storage space for your iPhone by using core rope memory.

[EyesWeldedShut]

5 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

I'm not paying them anything and we stopped watching them about half way through the Binky stuff - just got naff  once the originality wore off.
They were good, if my missus sticks around to watch YouTube car stuff then it has to be good and she did like having a laugh at the two of them bollocksing about with stuff.

[Sham]

21 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

The most obvious question here is why are you paying them £10 a month? It's your choice.

If you don't like what they're doing, or how long it's taking them - keep your money and then you'll have nothing to complain about.

14 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

It's an over reach for a fucking PCB regardless of it's application and regardless of who does it.

Next video they'll be showing you how you could also make more storage space for your iPhone by using core rope memory.

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 

It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?

It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.

Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

[DirtyDaily]

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 
It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?
It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.
Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

We can have the opinion that it's shit and we are disappointed though.

[St.Jude]

11 minutes ago, Sham said:

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 

It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?

It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.

Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

It's a viable option for clickbait.

There is no "Maybe" to "Are those other ways better". If their way was better they wouldn't have done it, and there would be a full on subsection of the forum bemoaning the use of that method in the Ford Escorts and other rot boxes we're all driving.

I didn't miss any of the video. There is absolutely no reason against them wanting a cluster to do X. No one has said anything against them on that. What the problem is, and I think you've missed the point on this, is the use of that method to create a PCB. That method does not result in a finished product quicker, cheaper, or better than long standard methods of PCB design and production. A shit hole Catholic secondary school with second hand equipment where you had 3 hours over 2 weeks could get a PCB done in a short space of time, but an engineering firm has to resort to whatever the fuck that was for 18 months to give them something that isn't finished?

"it's up to them" to do it, but anyone with a brain about it can call out the bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it, because that is exactly what it is. It's only "clever technique" to people who think Stephen Fry is an intelligent man.

[DirtyDaily]

It's a viable option for clickbait.
There is no "Maybe" to "Are those other ways better". If their way was better they wouldn't have done it, and there would be a full on subsection of the forum bemoaning the use of that method in the Ford Escorts and other rot boxes we're all driving.
I didn't miss any of the video. There is absolutely no reason against them wanting a cluster to do X. No one has said anything against them on that. What the problem is, and I think you've missed the point on this, is the use of that method to create a PCB. That method does not result in a finished product quicker, cheaper, or better than long standard methods of PCB design and production. A shit hole Catholic secondary school with second hand equipment where you had 3 hours over 2 weeks could get a PCB done in a short space of time, but an engineering firm has to resort to whatever the fuck that was for 18 months to give them something that isn't finished?
"it's up to them" to do it, but anyone with a brain about it can call out the bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it, because that is exactly what it is. It's only "clever technique" to people who think Stephen Fry is an intelligent man.

My thoughts on the rubbish PCB they're making is do you think they're using that as the final product? My thoughts are that maybe its just a mock up for doing something else but they needed that to test the theory? I mean it still doesn't make sense because you can do it all on software but I just can't believe that's going to be the final product?

[St.Jude]

14 minutes ago, DirtyDaily said:

My thoughts on the rubbish PCB they're making is do you think they're using that as the final product? My thoughts are that maybe its just a mock up for doing something else but they needed that to test the theory? I mean it still doesn't make sense because you can do it all on software but I just can't believe that's going to be the final product?

Even as a prototype method its stupid. Just screams someone thought they knew best and decided to bastardise a process they understand to do something it's not suitable for than rather spend an hour doing something else.

Like I said though I think Binky is a trailer queen, it's not going to be on the road properly. So let them have at it.

[DirtyDaily]

The whole car is sheer stupidity, or at the very least utterly pointless from any practical viewpoint.

I disagree. The point of binky is a drive able, enjoyable, fast, mini. All the mod cons and no draw backs built as if it came as a production car not a slapped together project. Ultimate no corners cut.
This isn't about corner cutting it's just about using a better method as the one they've done doesn't make any sense. Everything else makes sense even down to the flip front. Boot space, large fuel tank, aircon, working alternator, big power, legal wheel arches etc.
Reinventing the wheel BADLY to make dashboard lights doesn't make sense to me or inkeep with binky. I agree they needed to get it right but the right result could of been had 18 months a go.

Binky has become something greater than someone's project, it's gained a following and admiration. I feel there has to be some responsibility from the artist to finish it correctly after people have waited over 10 years for it. If you think they don't owe us anything and it's their car then I suppose that's a legitimate response but it won't go down well for the car, them or their career going forward.

I feel as if something else has gone on behind the scenes that has caused this as the whole thing doesn't add up to me.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

2 hours ago, Sham said:

The most obvious question here is why are you paying them £10 a month? It's your choice.

If you don't like what they're doing, or how long it's taking them - keep your money and then you'll have nothing to complain about.

I'm not. I'm just pointing out a viewpoint that I have already seen elsewhere (Reddit, etc.).  People are emotionally invested and it's a commercial enterprise.  This isn't you and your mate Steve (other mates are available) spannering around the back of a workshop in your spare time and recording it.  Bad Obsession make a considerable amount of money from this.  It's a business and the longer they stretch it out, the more money they stand to make, especially as Binky is the reason that most people have invested.

The cynic looks at the gap between the latest video and the one before, looks at the product and may reach the conclusion that they've deliberately used a shit process that takes a long time to stretch it out and make more money.

Anybody with the smallest modicum of electronics knowledge knows that you can prototype PCBs rapidly at minimal cost.  Even if they'd sent iterative designs to PCBWay, they could have had them made and sent back to test within a couple of days.

[Sham]

 

9 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

The cynic looks at the gap between the latest video and the one before, looks at the product and may reach the conclusion that they've deliberately used a shit process that takes a long time to stretch it out and make more money.

Anyone who thinks that is absolutely free to stop paying money, or stop watching it.

Then the flow of money to those evil fat cat car builders ripping off the poor innocent consumers stops.

[gadgetgricey]

Well this was a surprise. 
Not watched it yet, but it just appeared in my feed.

 

[DirtyDaily]

Well this was a surprise. 
Not watched it yet, but it just appeared in my feed.
 

Just got the motification too. I pray for a good episode!

[St.Jude]

After the last one stole an hour from my life, they can fuck off.

“In this episode, we grind up the flesh and bones of some horses and put them under pressure to form crude oil which we then crack in to a PLA plastic from which we print all of our plastics in with our welder. Yes, our welder. We replaced the wire with this PLA. Because we think we know best”.

[FakeConcern]

The most interesting thing in that episode is the music... (IMO)

[Mrcento]

I kinda gave up interest 4 or 5 episodes ago (pretty sure it was the 1 after they did the body wiring) when it was 100% clear to me they were looking for ways to string it out longer, having to make solutions, for other solutions for problems that wouldn't exist if they'd just done the normal thing on bits nobody will ever see or touch. I'm all for insane detail, craftsmanship and finding creative solutions, but there's a limit before you are dragging the arse out of it.

I.e 'We have to make a custom wiring loom, but we decided we want to route it this way rather than that way, so we need to make some brackets, but there's nowhere to mount them, so we'll make some brackets to mount on the OEM route for the new brackets to attach to, rather than change the plan back to just use the OEM routing as much as possible and keep it tidy with ties, or move the loom an inch the other way closer to use the existing mounting points'

Every episode i've checked in on since then has been a total slog of not even taking the difficult route, but ignoring it and making up an entirely new way of adding layer on layer of fluff on everything to such an extent, the difficult way looks too easy and the normal way looks like a bodge, despite being a correct way to do it.

The last one trying to invent ways to print circuit boards for some dash lights was a new level of piss take.

[EyesWeldedShut]

5 hours ago, Mrcento said:

I kinda gave up interest 4 or 5 episodes ago

We didn't even manage that - only got a couple of Project Binky in before both me & t'missus felt it was just not as interesting as the older stuff they did - and these guys are the only car type YouTube that my wife watched.
They blew it somewhere - it just got boring.
 

[dean36014]

It is only entertainment after all. Whether they use the original board as a test rig and get a proper board printed afterwards is there choice. It's just something to watch, nothing else. Personally I find it interesting when they completely redesign something just so it illuminates better in the dark.  I'll watch the episode,  then carry on with life as it doesn't effect my existence one little bit. 

[Sham]

Well, I'm still enjoying it. I love the detail being put into it. They wanted original looking gauges, and the stuff available wasn't to their standards. So, they made their own with the added functionality and quality that they wanted.

It's taken aaaaaaggggeeeeeesssss but it's stunning workmanship. Like the rest of the car. You simply don't skimp on the things you look at or interact with constantly on a custom build.

[UltraWomble]

I cant help feeling that all this is simply avoiding the inevitable IVA its going to need.

[straightSix]

I found myself just getting a bit bored with the latest episode. Watched quite a lot of the earlier ones twice but the last few have just been a bit unnecessarily long 

[junkyarddog]

Episode 41.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, junkyarddog said:

Episode 41.

they say on social media that this is the penultimate episode so that would make 42 the final episode, I almost wonder if that was intentional, I am certainly not the only one to have noticed LOL

very much looking forward to it tho! I hope that in the episode and later on they do show us how it actually drives, both on the street and on the track  

[Pieman]

 

[FakeConcern]

52 minutes ago, Pieman said:

 

That was actually a very good episode.

I totally accept that anyone should do what they want to their own car, but I wish he hadn't used the Mk1 grill...

[Mrcento]

Can confirm the new episode is actually good, great to see it finally coming together as an actual car again.

Think that's been one of the biggest issues in the 2nd half of the build, there's never been much satisfaction at the end of each episode. You'd sit trough the best part of an hour and feel like it was all padded out with nothing much to show at the end. The early stuff actually fitting all the blood and guts together and packaging it in the shell was brilliant, The more it got into the trim and electrical, the more bogged down it got with a lot of 'Here's another problem that didn't exist until we created it taking up the limited space we have with the solution to the last problem that also didn't exist until we decided to make it a problem for no reason other that overcomplicating the solution to an actual problem, just because we could.... oh no, now that space is taken up too, join us in 5 months to find out how we fix the 5th problem that can be traced back to trying to reinvent the wheel rather than bolting the part 5 problems ago, an inch to the left on the original mounting point'.

To actually see things clicking into place and the polished finish of the end product, outside and in, Lovely (and it does look stunning, i don't even mind the Mk1 grille too much).

[Pieman]

8 minutes ago, Mrcento said:

Can confirm the new episode is actually good, great to see it finally coming together as an actual car again.

Think that's been one of the biggest issues in the 2nd half of the build, there's never been much satisfaction at the end of each episode. You'd sit trough the best part of an hour and feel like it was all padded out with nothing much to show at the end. The early stuff actually fitting all the blood and guts together and packaging it in the shell was brilliant, The more it got into the trim and electrical, the more bogged down it got with a lot of 'Here's another problem that didn't exist until we created it taking up the limited space we have with the solution to the last problem that also didn't exist until we decided to make it a problem for no reason other that overcomplicating the solution to an actual problem, just because we could.... oh no, now that space is taken up too, join us in 5 months to find out how we fix the 5th problem that can be traced back to trying to reinvent the wheel rather than bolting the part 5 problems ago, an inch to the left on the original mounting point'.

To actually see things clicking into place and the polished finish of the end product, outside and in, Lovely (and it does look stunning, i don't even mind the Mk1 grille too much).

You're exactly right, and I think they realised that too.  I've been binge watching episodes to catch up on it recently as I've not had quite as much work as in the summer, and the episodes doing the dashboard and so on were a bit too detailed and involved even for me, and I couldn't get my head round most of the electronic stuff - this I think was why they had lost quite a few viewers.  That said, it's been a fascinating project to continue following, and it's taught me quite a lot about how cars work and how engineering works too.

[sheffcortinacentre]

But it also shows there's a lot more to building/modifying /restoring  something than most people see/think/believe & were the time & money can go.

Even if you don't go as far as some of the stuff they've done.

[Scruffy Bodger]

"Never before in the history of automotive development, has the line between genius and insanity been so blurred..."

The most liked comment sums it up pretty well!

[PhilA]

Just caught the dashboard video; all good and well but given how that's driven there's a noticeable lack of noise snubbing anywhere on that circuit. 

Particularly as they just slapped a couple of switching regulators in place of the 78xx parts. 

They are mechanical engineers at heart; electronics is something you can learn, for sure, but that's like painting a canvas white with emulsion and saying you can paint real well. Sure, but the finished result isn't exactly what everyone was expecting and it took you half a year to learn how to lay paint down without getting drips and brush strokes- and you're no further along to creating a picture than when you started. 

I understand the concept of "everything in house", and that "we sent it off to our mate Bob who's a wiz with computer stuff and he sent us this back" feels like a massive cop-out, but sometimes it's for the best. Prototype it in house- and it can be a god awful mess because it's a prototype- then bring that to someone who's good at electronics to fix the oversights you will have made. 

They show this process in their mechanical engineering. "We made this piece this morning and it was crap", then a quick snippet of it being thrown in the scrap bin and back to the lathe we go. If that was "We spent the whole school year making this and it doesn't work but I got a B+ for effort" people would have walked by now. Not sure why this persisted in a particularly obtuse fashion.

Two words. Scope creep. 

 

Phil