Ongoing P4 rectifications - ignition

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Cheaper therefore tempting. I would prefer silver digits but their white 3 1/2 inch plate looks canny

Frampton's are another pretty decent vintage plate supplier 

https://www.framptonsplates.com/Home/CarPlates

 

I also wonder if you could 3D print your own replacement digits?  

[jonathan_dyane]

I'm sure it could be done (3d printing numbers) but that is well outside of my sphere of knowledge...

[Zelandeth]

When checking wiring, pay particular attention to this bundle around the voltage regulator on the offside bulkhead.

Particularly the furthest left terminal and it's associated wire as that's an unfused power line straight to the battery.

[jonathan_dyane]

Ok so something of an update.

The postman brought treasure but I haven't had a chance to fit yet.

I did manage to have a bit of a tinker with the electrics however.

I cleaned all the fuse box and control box terminals then turned my attention to the indicators. Making use of my new bullet connectors I rewired the recalcitrant front indicator and cleaned up the bulb holders at the rear and I was rewarded with all four indicators working! No photos you'll just have to visualise the glory.

Spurred on by this success I decided to approach the lack of charging. I located the dynamo

and established it wasn't producing any energy. I whipped it off, dismantled and cleaned up internally. I couldn't find anything particularly wrong with it so I reassembled it, repolarised it then flashed it over a battery and I was rewarded by it 'motoring' merrily away (don't test your alternators like this kids!)

Starting the engine initially the ammeter was in a frenzy but then it pinned itself at full (over) charge; dynamo is now operational however control box suspect I will try and clean and adjust points which I suspect some might be stuck because 15.8 volt charging isn't desirable.

Know your enemy.

Hopefully I will have a chance to tinker with control box tomorrow...

[jonathan_dyane]

No stopping me now I have all the literature!

Also I have a new key, the old ignition key was faulted.

[Saabnut]

I have at least one spares P4, a 105 and possibly a 100 if you need parts.

[Zelandeth]

The lid on that voltage regulator being partly removed is definitely suspicious.

The points in there being dirty can cause all manner of strangeness, though I do remember mine seemed to sit at what seemed like quite a high voltage on charge.  Didn't seem to cause any issues the time I had it, and I think just balanced out the fact it was off charge at idle around town.

Being positive ground might make things a little more difficult, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a solid state replacement available for that regulator.  Have to admit that it's an upgrade I might have considered if I'd kept the car longer.  I did switch to a solid state unit on the Invacar, and the charging system definitely behaves *far* better than it used to with the old mechanical unit - though in the same breath I know it was pretty tired.  It now comes on charge pretty much straight off idle and clamps it to a rock steady 14V right through the rev band.  

Bit of advice I found useful dealing with positive ground and not getting yourself confused because everything is backwards.  Rather than saying positive/negative I just switched to "power" for the battery and "ground" for the body as that seemed to cause my brain far less confusion when thinking about polarity.  Connecting the timing light the "wrong" way around still felt really wrong!

Was definitely one of those cars which if I had a huge garage that I would have absolutely kept.

I think the single thing that staggered me the most was just how utterly content it seemed to be howling along the outside lane of the M1 keeping pace with modern day outside lane traffic.  She didn't so much accelerate as "move off" from standing, but once wound up would happily cruise at speeds far beyond what any car with its roots in the 40s has any right to.

[jonathan_dyane]

@Zelandeth I had the cover off the control box; it looked untouched inside.

I'm not averse to a solid state replacement if I can't make it work (I suspect the new replacement mechanical control boxes are dog shit) nor indeed the likely necessary change to negative earth but will see if I can resurrect it as it was first.

The 95 doesn't have the overdrive the 110 has (although has a higher ratio diff) but I was impressed how at home and responsive it felt on the motorway in spite of too-small tyres. I can't wait to take it for another spin once it's charging properly. And maybe once it has working wipers...

[jonathan_dyane]

More tinkering today.

I had a go at cleaning up the control box, initially in situ after which it didn't work at all.

I then took it off the car and gave it a better clean, put it back together and it seemed to be working properly! I then fitted the new mirrors (photos to follow) and went for a run to the local motorists shop to buy some windscreen washer pipe.

It ran terribly, down on at least on cylinder so when I got home I pulled the HT leads of each cylinder in turn I learnt the following:

I could do with new HT leads because I got a few good shocks AND two leads could be pulled out without changing the way the engine was running. I pulled both plugs and found they would not spark even out of the engine. As a temporary measure I fitted a couple of used plugs from the bottom of my tool box (either 2cv or MZ) and this got it running on 6 again, a run round the block confirmed she's running well again

I will buy 6 new plugs those that were in look suspect to me, I suspect possibly counterfeit.

[jonathan_dyane]

The Bosch name looks a bit blurry and not quite straight!

[Zelandeth]

I can vouch for my P4 having given me the best belt of any car ignition system I've worked on.  I learned the leads were shot when a spark jumped the best part of an inch to one hand, via me then from my other hand to the grounded metal work.  Was a proper old belt that elicited many, many expletives.

Well worth thoroughly cleaning the bakelite caps that attach to the plugs too as they are quite prone to tracking to ground if damp/dirty apparently.

At least your HT leads are easily accessible, they're tucked away inside metal trunking on the 110, which looks great but made routing new leads a bit of a faff.  Especially as they were thicker than the originals.

Regarding potential plug fouling, I found mine really only needed any substantial choke for a matter of a couple of seconds even in winter, and was usually fully pushed in within a minute or two.  Though obviously every car is different there.

[jonathan_dyane]

@Zelandeth @HMC @SiC tagging former P4 lickers, I'm trying to work out my headlamp wiring and I'm confused. There is of course the foot operated dipswitch to toggle between main and dipped beam which I understand  but the two other switches and, a toggle switch with three positions on the instrument panel and also another switch on the steering column behind the indicator switch.

How is it all supposed to operate?

[SiC]

Christ I can't remember. It's really not the most intuitive setup out there and took me a lot of toggle switch flipping to figure it all out 🤣

I wonder if I describe it in one of my videos I did. 

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

@Zelandeth @HMC @SiC tagging former P4 lickers, I'm trying to work out my headlamp wiring and I'm confused. There is of course the foot operated dipswitch to toggle between main and dipped beam which I understand  but the two other switches and, a toggle switch with three positions on the instrument panel and also another switch on the steering column behind the indicator switch.

How is it all supposed to operate?

Pics? I could delve into my parts cat if it might help

[Zelandeth]

Switch on dash - off/parking lights/side lights.

Switch behind indicators - side/dip.

Foot switch - Dip/main toggle.

From memory!

[jonathan_dyane]

8 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Pics? I could delve into my parts cat if it might help

Thanks for the kind offer but I think Zel has helped me make sense of it. I may have to ask you to consult your book at a later stage however!

[SiC]

Ah yeah parking light only puts one light on which confused the heck out of me as I thought it was a wiring problem as I expected it to be both side lights.

[jonathan_dyane]

Today I had hoped I would be able to spend some time on this fine machine but alas first think it was pouring so I ended up taking a fridge freezer to the tip and shortly after returning the child was sent home from nursery ill HOWEVER while my wife was at the doctor's with the child I did managed to spend some time with the fuel pump.

What a glorious piece of kit. These SU pumps seem to get a bad press but I think they're great, a quality piece of engineering which is eminently rebuildable. This one has already seen some action, note non-standard pipe fitting also foolishly whoever last tinkered with it didn't tape the joint between the body and the plastic body with insulation tape which helps keep them nice inside.

As expected points were all dirty and a bit pitted (even the end that was working) but a quick clean up and both ends are working nicely 👍 

I also found more missing bits (starting handle, wheel brace, tools) - I think there may be quite a few bits that @Saabnut might be able to help with; I'll have to start a list 😅

[SiC]

What amazed me on mine was the crimped hard nylon fuel pipes. I really did not realise that they went back to cars this old. My assumption was always it was a modern 1990s onwards thing. 

[Surface Rust]

On 09/09/2024 at 00:27, Zelandeth said:

Switch on dash - off/parking lights/side lights.

Switch behind indicators - side/dip.

Foot switch - Dip/main toggle.

From memory!

Well remembered, I still have to have a refresher every drive!

In mine the dash switch goes to the right for sidelights and left for parking lights.

[Surface Rust]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

What amazed me on mine was the crimped hard nylon fuel pipes. I really did not realise that they went back to cars this old. My assumption was always it was a modern 1990s onwards thing. 

I personally think the quality of the materials and engineering in these Rovers is as good if not better than you'd find anywhere else at the time. 

Probably why there are still so many knocking around despite decades of subpar maintenance!

[jonathan_dyane]

59 minutes ago, Surface Rust said:

I personally think the quality of the materials and engineering in these Rovers is as good if not better than you'd find anywhere else at the time. 

Probably why there are still so many knocking around despite decades of subpar maintenance!

You beat me to it, I previously thought these cars were a bit of anachronism but the more you get into them the more you realise the quality and futurism of the design,  coupled with top quality materials and engineering.

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, Surface Rust said:

I personally think the quality of the materials and engineering in these Rovers is as good if not better than you'd find anywhere else at the time. 

Probably why there are still so many knocking around despite decades of subpar maintenance!

This a thousand times.  A superbly engineered and superbly well built car that's far, far more advanced under the skin than you'd think to just look at it.

Plus inlet-over-exhaust engines are just cool.

[jonathan_dyane]

They're cool but also (at least in this application) it result in a very efficient engine with the benefits being that it is cross flow and the valves can be much larger than if they were both in the cylinder head meaning better breathing that would otherwise be possible in a long stroke design. 

The end result being a very smooth and torquey engine that can still rev relatively keenly and which has a superb exhaust note.

[Matty]

7 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

Today I had hoped I would be able to spend some time on this fine machine but alas first think it was pouring so I ended up taking a fridge freezer to the tip and shortly after returning the child was sent home from nursery ill HOWEVER while my wife was at the doctor's with the child I did managed to spend some time with the fuel pump.

What a glorious piece of kit. These SU pumps seem to get a bad press but I think they're great, a quality piece of engineering which is eminently rebuildable. This one has already seen some action, note non-standard pipe fitting also foolishly whoever last tinkered with it didn't tape the joint between the body and the plastic body with insulation tape which helps keep them nice inside.

As expected points were all dirty and a bit pitted (even the end that was working) but a quick clean up and both ends are working nicely 👍 

I also found more missing bits (starting handle, wheel brace, tools) - I think there may be quite a few bits that @Saabnut might be able to help with; I'll have to start a list 😅

I'll be honest. I just took mine off and fitted a Facet leccy pump instead. Rebuilding yours is undoubtedly the right approach though. I just lack patience 

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

They're cool but also (at least in this application) it result in a very efficient engine with the benefits being that it is cross flow and the valves can be much larger than if they were both in the cylinder head meaning better breathing that would otherwise be possible in a long stroke design. 

The end result being a very smooth and torquey engine that can still rev relatively keenly and which has a superb exhaust note.

It also makes a dirty, dirty noise if run without the intake silencer (easier on the 110) as I discovered during a test run.  Totally out of character with the car, and definitely not conducive to good fuel economy.  There was definitely temptation to leave it like that though just for the howl.

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 05/09/2024 at 12:44, jonathan_dyane said:

Cheaper therefore tempting. I would prefer silver digits but their white 3 1/2 inch plate looks canny

wash your mouth out! 😲

[jonathan_dyane]

I managed to get the wipers working today after cleaning out the wiper gearbox and adding some fresh grease. They're pretty ineffectual but they work at least.

I discovered the headlamp wiring has been fucked about with, not possible to have side lights only and main beam doesn't work. A job for another day.

I also changed the spark plugs and have removed the front carpet to dry, I need to investigate the leaking in (almost certainly windscreen rubber).

No photos of the work but have a gratuitous mirror shot

 

They're almost useless incidentally, I should have gone for some with longer arms. I hate the number plates more and more, I'm going to have to buy some nicer ones.

Also added a grommet to the old aerial hole

And for luck a temporary one for the missing screen wash jet; believe it or not the rain was dripping in and running down the HT leads.

Went for a little run and had fun, it was driving very well but there is a knock on the front end and I think the brake fluid is leaking from somewhere. No more driving until that's all been investigated...

[Yoss]

Your neighbours have a cool* car. 

[Rocket88]

1 hour ago, jonathan_dyane said:

I managed to get the wipers working today after cleaning out the wiper gearbox and adding some fresh grease. They're pretty ineffectual but they work at least.

I discovered the headlamp wiring has been fucked about with, not possible to have side lights only and main beam doesn't work. A job for another day.

I also changed the spark plugs and have removed the front carpet to dry, I need to investigate the leaking in (almost certainly windscreen rubber).

No photos of the work but have a gratuitous mirror shot

They're almost useless incidentally, I should have gone for some with longer arms. I hate the number plates more and more, I'm going to have to buy some nicer ones.

Also added a grommet to the old aerial hole

And for luck a temporary one for the missing screen wash jet; believe it or not the rain was dripping in and running down the HT leads.

Went for a little run and had fun, it was driving very well but there is a knock on the front end and I think the brake fluid is leaking from somewhere. No more driving until that's all been investigated...

Ref windscreen leak. Remove the vinyl pillar trim, the pillars have a habit of rotting out…