Classic car values

[danthecapriman]

4 hours ago, SiC said:

A great example of this. Not immaculate but not completely rough either. Perfectly usable fun classic for less than most 5yr old 'newer' cars. Quite easy for many to afford as a small treat with money from a bonus/savings/inheritance/etc. Not scary to fix and run without needing to worry about big expenditures. This is what the hobby is/should be about.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226738315011

Seems someone else agreed with you because it’s sold and removed from sale.

Hopefully someone will be very pleased with that car and have some fun with it.

[mk2_craig]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

the 1990 crash

Don’t know about classics but wasn’t the Jag XJ220 launched about then? A year or two later and recession hits, there were a shit load of pre orders cancelled and shifting the cars that had been built became impossible at the original asking price. 

Fast forward 30 years and the values were through the roof. It’s a strange market. 

[chadders]

15 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

Yep, the Mini will cost 2p a mile to run, the Ferrari most likely £20 per mile, I'd have one of each.

This sums it up in a nutshell to me.

I might be able to get purchasing the Ferrari past the missus as she has no idea how much they cost to run. The first service or repair would see me waking up with my balls in my mouth.

[lesapandre]

I think repair costs,  parts costs, insurance costs (especially for young people) - and the dearth of skills (both professionally and for individuals) is weighing on this.

Factor in cost of storage and the fact that new houses often have little useful parking and so many garaging sites and repair shops have gone for housing - you have a perfect storm.

UK traffic conditions are not great for old cars too these days. MoTs are tougher too for non-exempt vehicles. 

A lot of 'youngtimer' classics are also complex and one massive bill away from the scrapper. 

Add in the electic car propaganda, the 'war on the motorist', ULEZ restrictions for 'youngtimers' and the fact that maybe owning a classic is no longer cool and folk have less money they would rather spend elsewhere on houses, holidays or whatever the web is peddling this week.

A lot of younger people are driving less, see cars as white goods and only want the latest on finance. There is also a whole thing around safety.

We may shop for offbeat cars but many many people are not.

And as was thrown up at the auction above - unless these things are cared for they can go rapidly downhill.

[danthecapriman]

To be honest, if I was in any position to be affording one of those shitty Mini’s or a Ferrari, or both, I’d have neither and go buy something big old and American with a big V8 and run that instead. Spend the leftovers on fuel!😆

[chadders]

2 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

I think repair costs,  parts costs, insurance costs (especially for young people) - and the dearth of skills (both professionally and for individuals) is weighing on this.

Factor in cost of storage and the fact that new houses often have little useful parking and so many garaging sites and repair shops have gone for housing - you have a perfect storm.

UK traffic conditions are not great for old cars too these days.

Add in the electic car propaganda, the 'war on the motorist', ULEZ restrictions for 'youngtimers' and the fact that maybe owning a classic is no longer cool and folk have less money they would rather spend elsewhere on houses, holidays or whatever the web is peddling this week.

A lot of younger people are driving less, see cars as white goods and only want the latest on finance. There is also a whole thing around safety.

We may shop for offbeat cars but many many people are not.

Both my sons see cars as white goods.

[danthecapriman]

1 minute ago, chadders said:

Both my sons see cars as white goods.

Is that because that’s how successive governments and all the other crap these days has made it for them? Or is it purely just because they’re not interested in cars?

An awful lot of the younger generation seem to be seeing cars and driving that way.

[chadders]

7 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Is that because that’s how successive governments and all the other crap these days has made it for them? Or is it purely just because they’re not interested in cars?

An awful lot of the younger generation seem to be seeing cars and driving that way.

They're just not interested although there is a smidgen of interest in our VW T2 as they can go down to the beach in it.

It's nothing to do with the government per se but both believe in Global Warming.

[MiniMinorMk3]

I've recently been looking at DB7s. There are plenty of early 6 pot ones nudging the downward spiral to 4 figures. I have a local Aston specialist and I have wanted an Aston since hearing an old V8 blast past the garage I was working at in 1983. Will I take the plunge, or should I buy an early VW Bentley Continental. Again there is a specialist near by who can service it, but I know from when my father ran a couple of '70s Rollers back in the 1990s, it still cost a couple of grand every year in service and repairs. I currently spend about £300 a year on my 17 year old Focus.

[SiC]

31 minutes ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I've recently been looking at DB7s. There are plenty of early 6 pot ones nudging the downward spiral to 4 figures. I have a local Aston specialist and I have wanted an Aston since hearing an old V8 blast past the garage I was working at in 1983. Will I take the plunge, or should I buy an early VW Bentley Continental. Again there is a specialist near by who can service it, but I know from when my father ran a couple of '70s Rollers back in the 1990s, it still cost a couple of grand every year in service and repairs. I currently spend about £300 a year on my 17 year old Focus.

The starting cost per year is probably going to be what your 17yr old Focus is worth. But it'll be worth it YOLO.

Vantage V8 isn't a huge amount more than a DB7 and a whole lot nicer inside. 

I'd wager a Bentley CGT is going to be much more ruinous to run than a DB7. However more about and more broken for spares on the CGT means parts could well be cheaper and easier to get. 

[Dyslexic Viking]

1 hour ago, chadders said:

Both my sons see cars as white goods.

One question, did you try to get them interested?

I will never have children, but if I did, I would bring them along early and let them have lots of good experiences with old cars in the hope that it will spark an interest.

[Matty]

15 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

One question, did you try to get them interested?

I will never have children, but if I did, I would bring them along early and let them have lots of good experiences with old cars in the hope that it will spark an interest.

Yeah i tried that with my two. Only recently got them back off social services...

[chadders]

31 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

One question, did you try to get them interested?

I will never have children, but if I did, I would bring them along early and let them have lots of good experiences with old cars in the hope that it will spark an interest.

They were very interested in trains not cars, we travelled all over the UK to go to different railways. That's just the way they were.

[Six-cylinder]

In 1988 I bought a 1975 Jaguar XJ6 Coupe in great condition for £4,000 I don't remember the price crashing on classic cars as much as property. My house lost 19% 1988 to 1993 between  purchase and sale. I didn't sell the XJ6C until 2000.

The only other car I bought in that period was a running project MGB GT in Aug 1990 that I paid £450 for.

I have found a July 1989 Practical Classics and the price guide says £3,000-£8,000 for the XJ6C.  I have a Jan 1991 Popular Classics and that says £4,500 to £8,000.

[lesapandre]

There was a big price correction in the period after the late 87 'Black Monday' and the continuing fallout right into the early 90's. Prices for exotics really crashed.

One or two people took drastic action...

https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/lord-brocket-insurance-fraud/

[IronStar]

14 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Factor in cost of storage and the fact that new houses often have little useful parking and so many garaging sites and repair shops have gone for housing 

If the situation in my neck of the woods is anything to go by - this is the crux of the issue.

Realistically, I spent quite a bit a money on cars in the past few years, more than I really should've. However, I live in a flat in a stupidly expensive city, and all that money I spent would net me fuckall in Belgrade - it's nowhere close to the amount of money that would buy me a garage to spanner on any of my cars within a realistic distance of my place. I'm completely priced out of something that would be a natural habitat for a Fred in a shed - buying it outright is out of reach, bank won't loan money for it even if I wanted to do it that way, it's worth more than all of my cars combined, and renting it is a fool's errand, as I might as well pay a shop to do it - I won't save anything long-term once the rent is factored in. My cars are parked in one of those moving contraptions with barely enough space to open the doors in one garage, a shared underground apartment complex garage, and a shopping-mall garage that rents out a part of the parking behind a ramp, but is publicly accessible.   

I was also renting a workshop with 2 of my friends. I wrote about it in my cars thread, but we canceled the lease after 4 years we had it, it was severely underutilized other than as storage. Turns out that 25-45 minute drive each way, depending on the traffic, is not really something any of us had time to do as we have an hour here or two hours there in the evenings. 

Where does this leave me, or anyone with interests and working hours similar to mine?

Any of the cars I'm working on need to be either done and dusted in one go, as I'm working in public. The only thing that can be left for a bit longer is interior bits and pieces, as I can leave the car locked in the garage, but it can't be bulky, as I have nowhere to leave the parts. Anything that doesn't fit the description or I'm not 1000% sure of success gets carted off to a shop.

All of this combined leaves me as an Aliexpress Quentin with a checkbook - I'm not made of money, so I can't commission bespoke restorations like you see on the TV, or buy well-sorted cars (even if well-sorted cars were my thing), but at the same time I need to pay the man. I can't really do Fred in a shed either, as I'm completely priced out of the real estate I'd need to do such a thing. I'm just lucky I'm making enough to be able to do what I'm doing, but I'm acutely aware that most people can't do that either.

This is reflecting on a project car market, as there's dwindling number of people that have a place to put it, wish to fuck around with it, and can afford the hobby even if they have a place to put it and they're doing everything themselves on top. People who have money to afford a shed might as well buy a nice one to begin with - a fucking lockup costs as much as a Maseratti. 

[tooSavvy]

@IronStar.. Agreed!

A tiny example of exactly this >> I live in a ground floor terraced flat = no drive/garage. After buying AVAS [no mods/fixings required] I decided to get 4x Omega wheels and arranged a 'swapperoo' with my local tyre place.

The wheels arrived on a pallet, dropped in the front street, and stood up in my front hallway >> then loaded into AVAS and off to tyre place/swapped >> stripped factory rims back to flat to stand in our utility room. Just managed to sell them on for £50 the set... BUT... fortunately it was our daughter who posted them on FB & her bf has a van and will deliver them away to buyer.

I HAVE NOWHERE TO DO $H1T 🤣👍

🚙💨

[loserone]

Can you get a nearby allotment and put a shed on it 👀 or a lockup?

[grogee]

On 05/05/2025 at 20:11, lesapandre said:

Coming from the JLR collection does not seem to have added any cachet in the slightest.

A lot of their collection was sold off to blind bids (to employees at first) in 2017-ish. I remember having a look through the catalogue. 

There was some stuff that had to date from Whitley's Chrysler days, eg Rennow 4 and other 80s small stuff. 

There was a nice 70s Alfa in green plus other really random chod including a 60s Escort van. One wonders what their story was. 

A lot of it was in quite poor condition so I think it had been stored out of sight and forgotten by various managers until someone decided to have an 'asset spring clean'. 

[MiniMinorMk3]

Results from Brightwells on-line auction this week. 86 lots. 17 sold, of which 4 had no reserve. 69 not met reserve. Sellers still need to lower their expectations and set reserves lower.

Auction CC140525: Classic Motoring Auction Bidding Ends: Wednesday, 14th May 2025 from 12:01pm - Brightwells

[SiC]

You'd think the auction house would be putting heavier pressure on sellers to have more sensible reserves. Or maybe they accept these things happen and use it proof when they next go to an auction that prices are lower than sellers expect?

[barrett]

Was going to post that Brightwells sale up here too. That's a nightmare of a sale and I can't believe it's the vendors pushing for those prices and not the auction houses suggesting them. Putting a reserve on a car at auction seems like madness to me, anyway. If you know what you want for it/think it's worth then advertise it privately. Reserves put off bidders and make it much more likely you'll be bringing it home again at the end of the day. If you've tried selling privately and nobody's bought it, then you need to reconsider your expectations...

[danthecapriman]

19 minutes ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

Results from Brightwells on-line auction this week. 86 lots. 17 sold, of which 4 had no reserve. 69 not met reserve. Sellers still need to lower their expectations and set reserves lower.

Auction CC140525: Classic Motoring Auction Bidding Ends: Wednesday, 14th May 2025 from 12:01pm - Brightwells

Only 17 sold! That’s a pretty poor show. 
Good time to buy if you can convince sellers to take lower offers.

[N Dentressangle]

6 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Only 17 sold! That’s a pretty poor show. 
Good time to buy if you can convince sellers to take lower offers.

Very much so. Definitely a buyers' market. Some of those top bids are scarily low, considering what that stuff was fetching until very recently.

The results of the Modern Classics auction are pretty sobering too.

[IronStar]

Is this really all they're worth?

[danthecapriman]

The Daimler Majestic looks an absolute stunner. Reserve not met at a little over £6k.

[SiC]

26 minutes ago, IronStar said:

Is this really all they're worth?

Rubber bumper so less desirable. Body coloured bumpers is non standard and tbh I think looks worse. Brightwells make it hard to zoom in on photos, especially on mobile but that inside sill looks crap and the arches have bubbling.

Then add in a reserve where people CBA to play guess the minimum price and most didn't bother bidding. Especially when there are loads of them about and available for not much more. 

[barrett]

I think the general consensus is that the sill should be joined up here

It's a parts car, and £800 is generous

[IronStar]

Your car prices and what writes a car off / makes it a parts car will never cease to amaze me, even after 10+ years on UK car forums. I’d have 2 at those prices, provided that I can drive them home, thank you very much. 😄

[captain_70s]

A pair of professionally fitted sills would probably cost at least £2k. Plus whatever other horrors are discovered.

Then you're left with a rubber bumper MG with an ugly front spoiler and a dodgy respray in mustard yellow.

It's probably the least desirable MGB you could find. A couple of years ago it might have made £2k...

Most stuff at auction seems to have a steep reserve now. I think it's the idea that folks will get into a mad bidding frenzy and drive prices above the sort of money they'd fetch in a private sale. Plus having to factor in the auction costs as well.

I confess I consider auctions more of a novelty. It strikes me as a shit way to sell a car both as a seller and a buyer in an era of unlimited, cheap advertising space online...