1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - Completed it mate - see page 46

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, Peter C said:

@Zelandeth

According to the internet, R6 hoses are  Resistant to all modern fuels including petrol containing ethanol up to 15% (E15) and even E-85, but not for biodiesel

What's the problem bud?

Fair enough.  You've obviously put more research into that than I did.  Can't mind who it was, but someone piped up in one of my threads when I'd fitted some R6 rated hose sourced from Pirtek that it wasn't suitable long term and that it was R9 that I needed.  I took that information at face value and never really did any further research myself.

As has already been said though, so much of the over the counter stuff is absolutely dire these days that what's printed on it means absolutely bugger all anyway.  That does look identical to the stuff that Halfords sell though based on the printing.  Given how attentive you are though I doubt you've anything to worry about, if it starts to perish I'm sure you would spot it anyway.

[jonathan_dyane]

If the gears improve you won't know if it was the snake oil or the now macerated hose!

[Bren]

The rubber will dampen the gears. Better than a banana skin or 10 denier tights.

[lisbon_road]

Back not long after I bought my Sierra, I fitted a manual choke.  I drilled a hole straight into the brake servo.  Just saying, stuff happens............

 

As to all the fuel hose stuff, I'd be happy if someone who knows enough about it told us all what grade to buy from exactly where.  This is clearly an utter minefield and very difficult to get right.  The internet might be great but I can see myself that there's plenty of contradictory references out there.

[kevins]

I always buy Cohline 2240 from merlin motorsport now, expensive but you don't usually use much and I have used it for several years now and it  still seems perfect.

[captain_70s]

I recently replaced a factory fuel hose on my Acclaim, the one that ran between the carbs. It was rock hard and had to be cut off but showed no signs of perishing at all. Internally it looked like new.

Meanwhile the fuel hose on the Dolly is getting replaced annually as it just disintegrates internally.

I was of two minds as to whether to even replace the ancient one on the Acclaim given the abysmal quality of most new stuff, which is a sad state of affairs, but separating the carbs wasn't an option without hacking it to bits...

Fingers crossed the bit of hose in your gearbox doesn't cause an issue. I can't imagine it'd cause any lasting damage at least...

[goosey]

5 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Fair enough.  You've obviously put more research into that than I did.  Can't mind who it was, but someone piped up in one of my threads when I'd fitted some R6 rated hose sourced from Pirtek that it wasn't suitable long term and that it was R9 that I needed.  I took that information at face value and never really did any further research myself.

As has already been said though, so much of the over the counter stuff is absolutely dire these days that what's printed on it means absolutely bugger all anyway.  That does look identical to the stuff that Halfords sell though based on the printing.  Given how attentive you are though I doubt you've anything to worry about, if it starts to perish I'm sure you would spot it anyway.

I had the same conversation when I worked at Pirtek that R6 is ok for fuel in the short term but R9 is better in the long term I still have a reel of R9 from when I replaced the fuel hoses on my Jeep and it has fuel injection hose printed on the layline. We used to refer to R6 as just a multipurpose hose. 

[goosey]

8 hours ago, Conan said:

Yeah, no, the issue is not with the SAE Rating. You cannot really judge how good a hose will be purely by that as it's just a rather not at all difficult to pass standardised test. I've had extremely good R6 and shit R7/8/9. With you being very attentive it won't be an issue.

It's not even the ethanol that's breaking down the really shit hose, usually just the engine heat is enough.

Interesting, from what I remember R7 was thermoplastic hydraulic hose and R8 was thermoplastic non conductive hydraulic hose

[artdjones]

On 02/06/2024 at 18:17, grogee said:

You could try some Molyslip snake oil, I've used it a few times although there was nowt wrong with the boxes it went in anyway so I can't vouch for its fixing powers. 

The clips that hold the seat fabric on are called 'hog rings'. And are horrible. 

They need a tool called a hog ring pliers, with grooves in the jaws so the rings don't slip sideways or ping off.

[EyesWeldedShut]

On 18/05/2024 at 08:55, NorfolkNWeigh said:

All LX Sierras in the U.K. came with 14”steel wheels , even the MK1. I’d go so far as to say they never sold a two tone Sierra with 13s, as the grey bottom half was only on LX, GLS.  In 1987 my company 1.6 GL only had 13” wheels and I was jealous that people on a lower grade got LX’s with 14s. When I bought it for my Mrs at 60k and 2 years old I immediately put a set of XR4x4 alloys on it.

Cant find a picture of E483 MMFso here’s a Saph she had much later, an odd spec 1.8 ( cvh) L, no sunroof but standard 14s and trims.

 

I may be a technocripple but I know my Sierras.

Just seen that picture - we had  G reg LX Hatch that was, otherwise, identical as a company car from new. I figured it was sales rep special at the time?

[Mally]

I'm a bit confused with your thinking.

You were worried about a small crease in the drivers seat that you can't see when sat on.

You are not worried about leaving a length of rubber hose inside the gearbox, which will disintegrate and could cause selector forks to jam. synchro problems and god knows what.

The gearboxes are very heavy, but once off the car, the top plate is simple to remove.

I'd not be turning any gears before I'd got the rubber tube out in one piece.

[Conan]

12 hours ago, goosey said:

Interesting, from what I remember R7 was thermoplastic hydraulic hose and R8 was thermoplastic non conductive hydraulic hose

Correct. SAE R7 is hydraulic hose. The actual very absolutely correct standard name for fuel hose would be SAE J30 R7.

From this document online I've found apparently the difference is very nuance and complicated, but all J30 hose will have been tested against ethanol. I don't think anyone bothers with lower than R6 and R10/11/12 is not for outside the tank, hose clamp fuel line application (IIRC they're pretty stiff from the inside insulation). R10 is more for pressed fitting high pressure line and 11/12 are low permeation for emission purposes.

tl;dr The R9 is the superior standard, but doesn't mean the R6 is not perfectly fine for low pressure, carburettor feeding, outside the tank, hose clamped fuel line. If you managed to get a good high quality one anyway which seems to be an issue everywhere.

From what I've gathered the J30 fuel line standard (R6/7/8/9 whatever) does not actually test for longevity, only changes to the hose (length, specific amount of fuel inside the hose, etc.) within a set period of time in different conditions. So indeed going overkill is an option, but not universally! Like I've said, I've had bad R9 that cracked within a year as well.

I'd be happy if someone who understand these standard would be able to explain because it's interesting, but man I can't wrap my head around all the differences in each level of standard.

[Peter C]

4 hours ago, Mally said:

I'm a bit confused with your thinking.

You were worried about a small crease in the drivers seat that you can't see when sat on.

You are not worried about leaving a length of rubber hose inside the gearbox, which will disintegrate and could cause selector forks to jam. synchro problems and god knows what.

The gearboxes are very heavy, but once off the car, the top plate is simple to remove.

I'd not be turning any gears before I'd got the rubber tube out in one piece.

I would be happy to attempt removal of the hose if I could safely get the gearbox off, which I can't.

You know what happens to fruit and veg that find their way into a blender? I suspect that a thin rubber hose would suffer the same fate if it got caught up in the cogs.

 

[grogee]

5 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I would be happy to attempt removal of the hose if I could safely get the gearbox off, which I can't.

You know what happens to fruit and veg that find their way into a blender? I suspect that a thin rubber hose would suffer the same fate if it got caught up in the cogs.

 

If you have four axle stands (didn't you just buy two new ones?) or two axle stands and two wheel ramps, the car is safely supported.

Then your jack is free to support the weight of the box while you wrestle it off. I have a gearbox cradle which attaches to a standard* jack and wraps a chain around the top of the box - you are welcome to borrow.

Definitely not an H&S approved method with you lying on the floor but bear in mind there are youtoob vids of the 'Clutch Guy' supporting gearboxes with his stomach and lifting them into position with his hands, so it can be done.

If in doubt, enlist an assistant with disposable limbs/fingers. I'd be happy to help, you're not too far away.

I'd also be tempted with the 'drill hole in bottom and tap' as suggested by someone further up. The swarf will be washed away by the draining oil - you may want to wear full hazmat clothing for that though. (Obviously this won't help in removing the hose).

*seemingly no such thing

[Tenmil Socket]

Great work so far, it's great to see.

Not that it matters and I don't want to mess with your OCD but I think those new Ford badges may be a later style (darker blue / slightly different around the edges / slightly deeper)?

Old

New

[Peter C]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

If you have four axle stands (didn't you just buy two new ones?) or two axle stands and two wheel ramps, the car is safely supported.

Then your jack is free to support the weight of the box while you wrestle it off. I have a gearbox cradle which attaches to a standard* jack and wraps a chain around the top of the box - you are welcome to borrow.

Definitely not an H&S approved method with you lying on the floor but bear in mind there are youtoob vids of the 'Clutch Guy' supporting gearboxes with his stomach and lifting them into position with his hands, so it can be done.

If in doubt, enlist an assistant with disposable limbs/fingers. I'd be happy to help, you're not too far away.

I'd also be tempted with the 'drill hole in bottom and tap' as suggested by someone further up. The swarf will be washed away by the draining oil - you may want to wear full hazmat clothing for that though. (Obviously this won't help in removing the hose).

*seemingly no such thing

Understood but not for me. I am too old and handsome to suffer a gearbox falling on my head injury.

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, Tenmil Socket said:

Great work so far, it's great to see.

Not that it matters and I don't want to mess with your OCD but I think those new Ford badges may be a later style (darker blue / slightly different around the edges / slightly deeper)?

Old

New

You utter bastard.

 

[Peter C]

To remove the hose from inside the gearbox, the gearbox would have to be safely removed off the car.

I do not have the facilities to remove the gearbox, at least not safely.

Let's say it's 50/50 whether the hose finds itself in a position where it can come into contact with a moving part inside the gearbox.

If it doesn't, I don't have to worry about it.

If it does, let's say it's 50/50 whether it gets blended into millions of pieces.

If it gets blended, I don't have to worry about it.

Bearing in mind the hose is small and is made of thin and soft rubber, I doubt it would be able to cause any significant issues inside the gearbox.

Bearing in mind how rubber does not enjoy a warm and oily environment, chances are that sooner rather than later the hose will begin to degrade, soften and turn to mush.

If the hose does cause a problem, I will deal with it later.

Bearing in mind that adding sawdust to a differential is a tried and tested method of making it quieter, a bit of rubber residue inside a gearbox is not anything worth worrying about.

I hope that you scallywags will agree that I have done a decent enough job of refurbishing the Sierra and that I have not cut any significant corners whilst doing so. Forgive me for this one minor discrepancy. 

 

 

 

[Peter C]

I’ve done about 40 miles in the Sierra today, mostly back roads and a short stint on the M40.

The rogue hose is not causing any issues.

As for the gear change, I am pretty sure that the movement between gears is smoother and I got 3rd gear every time without baulking but overall the movement still feels very mechanical. Now, this might be the way Type 9 gearboxes operate and there’s nothing for me to worry about. Or the ‘box is simply showing its age.

[danthecapriman]

Not related to cars, but in a similar vein to this rubber hose stuck in the gearbox issue…

Some years ago at work we were using a hydro hoover as part of a job on the inside of a very big electricity transformer. It was leaking oil from a gasket but to change it we had to empty out roughly half the oil inside this thing. We got the oil out and stripped everything down, removed the old gasket and used the hydro hoover to suck up any bits of old gasket, paint and crap that fallen into the transformer tank or stuck on a ledge inside it. 
It went well until the plastic end pipe on the hoover nozzle fell off inside the transformer! Naturally it didn’t land on the internal ledge but bounced off that and rattled its way down the inside of the transformer tank right to the bottom! 
It was a very big transformer so the plastic pipe was waaay out of any form of reach and the only way to get to it was basically to completely strip the entire core out of the transformer… you’d need a big crane to do that and to remove the lid so it wasn’t happening! 
After shitting ourselves we eventually found another identical hoover pipe and tested it on a Meggar tester to see how conducive or not it was! It wasn’t very conducive so we took the decision to rebuild the transformer and leave it in there.

Once it was made live again nothing happened and as far as I know it’s still inside with no issues all these years later!😄

Im pretty sure a lump of soft rubber hose won’t do anything to a gearbox if it ever did get dragged through the gears. It’d most likely just squash and get shredded into tiny granules. I’d be more concerned if it was a bolt or something!

I found a washer in the sump of an automatic gearbox once too. It’d been in there god knows how long and not done anything!

 

*usual disclaimer - not my fault! Your mileage may vary and so on!

[Peter C]

I'm not having a good afternoon.

I went out into my garden and got stung by a bee in my eyebrow. It's swollen and fucking hurts.

I parked the Sierra under the carport once I returned from today's outing. I went back to my workshop a little while ago and all I could smell was petrol, coming from the Sierra's engine bay. Fuck.

I am pretty sure that the smell is now coming from the vapour separator.

So I removed it.

And connected the supply hose from the fuel pump directly to the carburettor.

And I plugged the vapour return line that extends to the fuel tank and secured it with a cable tie.

Assuming that I will still be able to see and drive ok, I will take the Sierra out this evening when it's time to pick my son up from cricket practice and check whether the smell situation has improved. 

Alternatively, bad things happen in threes.....

 

 

[Peter C]

Trip to pick up my son from the cricket club achieved.

Rogue hose has not caused any issues.

Currently no fuel smells from the engine bay but I will check again first thing in the morning.

[Peter C]

I’ve joined a Ford Sierra Facebook group and I’ve just exchanged messages with one of the Sierra’s previous owners!

[tooSavvy]

17 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Not related to cars, but in a similar vein to this rubber hose stuck in the gearbox issue…

Some years ago at work we were using a hydro hoover as part of a job on the inside of a very big electricity transformer. It was leaking oil from a gasket but to change it we had to empty out roughly half the oil inside this thing. We got the oil out and stripped everything down, removed the old gasket and used the hydro hoover to suck up any bits of old gasket, paint and crap that fallen into the transformer tank or stuck on a ledge inside it. 
It went well until the plastic end pipe on the hoover nozzle fell off inside the transformer! Naturally it didn’t land on the internal ledge but bounced off that and rattled its way down the inside of the transformer tank right to the bottom! 
It was a very big transformer so the plastic pipe was waaay out of any form of reach and the only way to get to it was basically to completely strip the entire core out of the transformer… you’d need a big crane to do that and to remove the lid so it wasn’t happening! 
After shitting ourselves we eventually found another identical hoover pipe and tested it on a Meggar tester to see how conducive or not it was! It wasn’t very conducive so we took the decision to rebuild the transformer and leave it in there.

Once it was made live again nothing happened and as far as I know it’s still inside with no issues all these years later!😄

Im pretty sure a lump of soft rubber hose won’t do anything to a gearbox if it ever did get dragged through the gears. It’d most likely just squash and get shredded into tiny granules. I’d be more concerned if it was a bolt or something!

I found a washer in the sump of an automatic gearbox once too. It’d been in there god knows how long and not done anything!

 

*usual disclaimer - not my fault! Your mileage may vary and so on!

Ahh..... 

In my 'IMPnutter' days I removed/installed the engine [..often 🙄] and, one memorable day, I dropped a nut (clutch slave cylinder) into the bell housing >> "clinkk" 😕

Splitting the engine/txl was the *obvious fix 😯....

NAHH 😱

I had a bit of speaker magnet >> leccy taped it to a length of speaker wire >> fed wire down through clutch arm hole and out the bell housing/sump gap... Jiggeddy-jig = click = slow vertical traverse of nut, into sunlight 👍🎈.

Cannot guarantee similar success with Brass nut/Chewing gum 🤣🤣

🚙💨

[Peter C]

I went to see a client today who has a very impressive looking garage.

There are a few treats inside too.

A funky Honda bike thing.

A small commercial vehicle.

A modern convertible.

And a classic convertible, in the shape of a Series 1 E-Type Jag, which is kept absolutely pristine inside a Carcoon.

I clocked up quite a few miles in the Sierra today and the rogue hose has not caused any issues.

However, the fuel smell is still present. It must be the carburettor as everything else fuel related that could be leaking has been replaced or removed. Do I dare remove the carburettor and strip and clean it? Hmmm.

[Peter C]

I removed the air filter housing.

There is definitely a strong smell of fuel coming from inside the carburettor chokes, however that is quite normal.

There is no evidence of any leaks (overly clean surfaces where the fuel would have leaked out and evaporated) anywhere around the carburettor. 

I have put a temporary seal (three rubber bands) around the top of the carburettor, where the air filter housing sits. Perhaps the smells from inside the carburettor are escaping via this joint?

If this makes a difference, I will source a more suitable seal.

Finally, I've reinstated the vapour separator thing. Its absence in the engine bay and redundant holes in the inner wing were not good for my OCD.

[danthecapriman]

I must admit, I don’t find any petrol smells with the Capri, which is just an older more basic version of your Sierra set up. Very occasionally you do get a slight whiff if you stand near the fuel tank on a hot day but nothing else. It’s just the tank breathing.

I do get it on the Mercury though. When it’s just stood sometimes you can smell a slight petrol smell from the front of the car, but sometimes when driving it you get an odd whiff then it goes. I can’t see any problems though - nothing’s leaking, it’s not over fuelling or anything like that. 
I just put up with it now! It’s not an offensive smell or constant but it is there sometimes. I just put it down to ‘old car stuff’!

[lisbon_road]

Might be worth checking the float height in the carb 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The mk2 'Scrote I bought from HMC has a fairly strong fuel smell. No leaks either although the as soon as you open the boot, the smell is fairly obvious - it filters into the cabin too. I'm wondering if it's a pinhole or the tank isn't venting properly or something. 

[goosey]

34 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

The mk2 'Scrote I bought from HMC has a fairly strong fuel smell. No leaks either although the as soon as you open the boot, the smell is fairly obvious - it filters into the cabin too. I'm wondering if it's a pinhole or the tank isn't venting properly or something. 

I think the vent on those is a rubber pipe the sticks out the rear panel behind the bumper