F**ked Black Rover 827 SLi - The Mistake Machine

[camryv6]

39 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

I’d upload it but fucked if I know how.

Well I do know but I just can’t be arsed. All it is he rings it, looks at the car and tries the door. Then he gives it a look.

That's fine i just felt stupid clicking a photo

[St.Jude]

38 minutes ago, mk2_craig said:

I thought it was?

It is. But when it’s running and has an MOT.

[St.Jude]

I didn’t have the tools today. Genuinely tackled 10mm screws with the ugga dugga because I didn’t have the appropriate wrench.

Anyway, parts changed:

1) Main Relay - made no difference to the start so jumped it on the relay.

2) Ignition Amplifier - no difference

3) Ignition Coil - no difference.

Disappointing at this stage of course. I went to take the key out but realised something - I hadn’t actually put the key on.

Now with the key engaged… it wanted to start. It really did. And it sort of ran for 5 seconds maybe. Really struggling, spluttery, and it didn’t start again after that. But it was good to hear it. Annoyingly I had filmed bits of it - didn’t film that!!!

So next time I’ll change the fuel pump. That might be a problem as I’m struggling with my arms at the moment.

On top of all this I think the engine has wept some oil, as something liquidy has dropped under it!

[High Jetter]

Sounds promising, though

[yes oui si]

Keep going! 

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

Sounds promising, though

Yeah for sure.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I really, really, really want this car to live. 

[Erebus]

[Erebus]

Fair play for persevering with it.  Getting tantalisingly close now!  Hopefully it'll pay off even if just because it'll make it easier to sell

[barefoot]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I really, really, really want this car to live. 

I really, really want you to hire a decent auto electrician and have him start the fucker within minutes of arriving on site.

[St.Jude]

19 minutes ago, barefoot said:

I really, really want you to hire a decent auto electrician and have him start the fucker within minutes of arriving on site.

I really, really want Amanda Lamb on my lap right now to get me started within minutes of her arriving.

But neither are going to happen.

1 hour ago, Erebus said:

Fair play for persevering with it.  Getting tantalisingly close now!  Hopefully it'll pay off even if just because it'll make it easier to sell

I floated an idea to the wife about a replacement for the Land Cruiser (MOT dependent), and she didn’t say no. She said “why do you always like shit cars” but that’s not a no. It was around a fairly depressing conversation and part of the convo was on about the Rover. I would like to enjoy it even for a month or two before getting rid of it. So I have motivation.

[barefoot]

Who is Amanda lamb?

[St.Jude]

17 minutes ago, barefoot said:

Who is Amanda lamb?

AMANDA LAMB!

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

20 minutes ago, barefoot said:

Who is Amanda lamb?

Larry just wants the Rover fixed. 

[Rust Collector]

58 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

I would like to enjoy it even for a month or two before getting rid of it. So I have motivation.

It was that sort of grim determination that kept me going with the XM, although in hindsight I wish I’d just spent those few hundred hours sat indoors wanking or something.

Cant wait to see the Rover running though, you will get there.

[St.Jude]

50 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

It was that sort of grim determination that kept me going with the XM, although in hindsight I wish I’d just spent those few hundred hours sat indoors wanking or something.

Cant wait to see the Rover running though, you will get there.

We will get there. We will.

[St.Jude]

Took the afternoon off today to deal with this, as my mom decided to get her floor done and new sofas. So the car needs to move at least.

I think - think - I have narrowed the problem. And this will definitely be of interest to @Noel Tidybeard and @Lankytim.

Got to the car and set about changing the fuel pump to the spare one that was there. Couldn’t help but notice two of the screws on the plate weren’t fully down, one of them was a bit mangled too. Anyways, Swapped them over, and as I did I couldn’t help but notice how clean the one out of the tank was and how old the spare one looked. I did wonder, but moved on, making sure everything that came off went back on. Remember this bit.

Car would turn over but nothing. Had a can of Easy Start with me today, it would only splutter and didn’t catch. Right, fine, let me try and change over the inhibitor. Well I fucked around with that but couldn’t fathom how to unclip the connector. Even tried to work that out on the spare I got as I just cut it from the donor. Couldn’t work it out.

But my mind went back to the fuel pump, especially as it sort of spluttered to life last time. I undone the bolt for the fuel filter in the engine and turned it over - nothing. Last time when @Lankytim did it a dribble came out. So something is up here. I unplugged the cable to the fuel pump and put a multimeter on it. When the key goes to ignition, 11.4v goes to it then it drops to 0.02. When I turn the key to start it gets the full 11.4v. So power is going to the pump, but nothing is coming out of this spare pump. So I thought maybe what I saw before, screws half done, an existing pump looking new, the pump that was in a box is probably the old one and the pump has already been changed. I put the “old” one back in the tank and started it again. Nothing.

At this point I’m wondering what the frig to do now. I look at the dashboard to check for lights and the fuel light is on. The needle is in the red. I can’t remember having a photo of the dash when I got it but for a car that’s not been anywhere how can the needle be empty. The car is on a bit of a slope facing down, so maybe the fuel is all at the front of the tank and not being picked up. I think fuck it, let me stick 5L of fresh petrol in. I go and get some petrol and put it in. I check the gauge and the light is off and the needle is a bit higher out of the red. 

It’s at this point things get exciting. I try the engine again with the easy start, nothing. I try to remember what I did before that’s different to now and right now I’m not using the ignition coil from the smashed Rover. I swap them around…

It splutters a bit but eventually the car starts. And runs like shit. It’s struggling to stay idle after starting and then dies. However, eventually it runs. Starts first time on the relay bypass and runs like shit. Lumpy. Not at all happy. It doesn’t really respond to the throttle. I need to move the car anyway so I sit in the seat ready to drive and it dies. It doesnt start again.

I go back to the engine bay and I think maybe the fuel pump is on the wonk. I loosen the filter nut and I get a dribble. Fine. I then loosen a fuel feed by the injector, as shown here.

It sprays out. There is fuel pressure. But the car will not start. I go back to the fuel pump to whack it with my screwdriver and it’s all wet. Can’t work out why, so I set my phone up to film it and I start the car again for a few seconds. I watch what I’ve recorded and fuel is pissing out of the fuel line on the nut. I check it for tightness and it’s tight. What the fuck.

I could not be more diligent and careful when it comes to fuel, and like I said everything that came off went back on. I watch the video again and I notice that the fuel is pissing out under the fuel line. So you have your screw, a washer, fuel line, washer, pump. It’s between the fuel line and pump. I take it off and as I do, on the mating service of the fuel pump looks to be a washer. It’s raised up and looks like it should come off but I can’t get it off. Same on the old fuel pump. I put the fuel line back without the bottom washer, I start the car again and this time no leaks. Car still won’t start but that’s down to the battery being dead.

I roll the car forward a foot or two from the front door. I go home.

In summary:

The fuel smell myself @Noel Tidybeard and @Lankytim noticed was down to this fuel pump pissing fuel every time the car was started. I think it’s got to a point where there isn’t enough fuel to start the car and run it, and obviously the minutes it ran earlier half of that petrol was going everywhere else but the engine.

I think there is a weak spark and that’s down to the ignition coil. The newer one works better.

I think the throttle body has some role in this too, especially as it will not respond to throttle command. I have a spare throttle body here, but pot luck whether that’s better than what’s on it (based on the fuel pump).

There is a definite break between the ignition barrel and the starter motor. The key is operating the fuel pump, but nothing to the starter motor.

I don’t think the inhibitor switch is a problem.

This is all productive and good, but I must also point out here that I think the car’s driver side sill is rotten. I’ve not got a picture, but while I was thinking I gave the driver side sill a tap with my steel boot. Stuff fell off. I had a quite look and where the outer and inboard sill meet a chunk fell off. I didn’t dwell on it, still not, but it is going to need welding.

[yes oui si]

Sounds like a really productive day tbh. You're nearly there! 

[barefoot]

50 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

...stick 5L of fresh petrol in...

...It splutters a bit but eventually the car starts...

Thirteen pages of no fuel in it?

Bring back that lad with the missing locking wheel nut key!

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, barefoot said:

Thirteen pages of no fuel in it?

Bring back that lad with the missing locking wheel nut key!

In hindsight I should've waited for April 1st before writing it. 

The needle isn't rock bottom empty. It's halfway through the E bit. There is fuel in the tank. Fuel comes spurting out when I crank it. 

So it's not 13 pages of no fuel in it. It's 13 pages of the fuel not going where it was needed. 

[comfortablynumb]

Don't know if it's relevant, but on some more more modern stuff,( depends on your version of modern) we had at the demonstration fleet I was involved with, if they actually ran dry, it couldn't reprime itself with only 5 litres of fuel, you had to put at least 10 in

Not saying that's your problem, but worth bearing in mind 

[St.Jude]

47 minutes ago, comfortablynumb said:

Don't know if it's relevant, but on some more more modern stuff,( depends on your version of modern) we had at the demonstration fleet I was involved with, if they actually ran dry, it couldn't reprime itself with only 5 litres of fuel, you had to put at least 10 in

Not saying that's your problem, but worth bearing in mind 

Yeah I did think that, but Googling that for the Rover I couldn’t find anything (other than shit about Land Rovers and Range Rovers). 

Think next time I’m there I’ll swap the throttle body over, put more petrol in it (now that it’s not got the extra washer pissing petrol) and see if that makes it start and run better. Then risk a local (and I mean local, not friendly) MOT and see what the damage is.

[grogee]

Wow. It actually ran! Great work. Fix this fuel leak problem, then maybe pressure at injectors is high enough to make it run cleanly. 

It wants to live

[St.Jude]

16 minutes ago, grogee said:

Wow. It actually ran! Great work. Fix this fuel leak problem, then maybe pressure at injectors is high enough to make it run cleanly. 

It wants to live

I've a video, well a few videos, which I'll upload later and you can see and hear what it did. Especially the fuel leak.

[loserone]

Thirteen pages of emptying a fuel tank onto the driveway.

 

Good work finding that

[St.Jude]

Took me a while to figure this out, but here are the videos of it running.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f5ifT6zbiGdHp7sQ7RLm5-nA

https://share.icloud.com/photos/035UxlnEAfxp12bB8mR47t17Q

 

[loserone]

Oh that is fit.

[SiC]

So I'm kinda lost. What was the issue?

Dead fuel pump?

Lack of fuel?

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

So I'm kinda lost. What was the issue?

Dead fuel pump?

Lack of fuel?

Still a mixture of things.

The fuel pump looks to have been changed before me, but fitted wrong so it was leaking when it was running.

The fuel pump engages when the key is turned, but the starter doesn’t. 

The car, sort of, starts when you bypass the key and use the relay instead.

We had a weak spark before but it’s started more successfully now since using a different ignition coil.

It doesn’t keep idle, it struggles, and won’t respond to throttle movement.

[Matty]

You're defo no David Bailey 🤣

Good news though and fair play on the patience you've needed. Getting it to run at all is a major boost and now you can work through it's issues. Congrats, it's well earned.