The Ford Fiesta - RIP

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, ETCHY said:

Not big enough. Not flash enough not "allegedly" green enough for all the I'm better than you wankers that are a fair proportion of the car buying public these days. Who have no grasp of the irony of driving a new imported from fuck knows where 3 ton SUV around a congested town and then swapping it every 3 years for the same.. 

RIP the non SUV.

I think this ‘not premium’ thing seems to be a thing these days. Especially if you are a one of these Tim nice but Dim, PistonHeads types that reads What Car and talks in public about BiK figures and what tax rate they’re on. 

[UltraWomble]

3 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Is there something in this also about the move to electic cars - that it's more difficult to pack the tech and batteries into small cars and get the miles range - which is driving overall a move to bigger vehicle as car ranges are electrified?

I call cobblers to that reason.

Look at the Ami - electronically limited to 28mph - I bet someone somewhere will work out how to de-limit them to get more speed.
Real world range for something the size of a shoebox 40 miles - plenty for most people for the daily commute / school run / shopping trip / trip into town etc which many mini/supermini cars spend their life doing.
Then there is the Wuling Hongguang Mini - top speed 60mph, range 75miles - smaller than a packet of ready salted crisps - again for this type of car for what its largely going to be used for is more than adequate for most people.

With SUV hybrids I think people are just driven by the "lifestyle" marketing and the weird perception that they are safer than anything else on the market.

The Marketing Pitch

The reality

[Alusilber]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:05 PM, Dobloseven said:

I would think Ford in Europe need to join forces with another maker ASAP,for platform and technology sharing. Vauxhall/Opel/Stellantis seem to be committed to keeping making the Corsa, which can share parts with the former PSA models. They're joining up with VW for vans and pick ups so perhaps cars will be next. 

Yes, that’s exactly what they’re doing, Part of the deal between Ford and VW is to use the MEB platform for at least two Ford EV models. By the time they’re out though, VW will have moved on to their next-generation SSP platform…

Getting back to the topic, here’s a very dogeared page from the first car brochure I ever got my hands on…

[GrumpiusMaximus]

32 minutes ago, UltraWomble said:

I call cobblers to that reason.

Look at the Ami - electronically limited to 28mph - I bet someone somewhere will work out how to de-limit them to get more speed.
Real world range for something the size of a shoebox 40 miles - plenty for most people for the daily commute / school run / shopping trip / trip into town etc which many mini/supermini cars spend their life doing.
Then there is the Wuling Hongguang Mini - top speed 60mph, range 75miles - smaller than a packet of ready salted crisps - again for this type of car for what its largely going to be used for is more than adequate for most people.

With SUV hybrids I think people are just driven by the "lifestyle" marketing and the weird perception that they are safer than anything else on the market.

The Marketing Pitch

The reality

Your second picture is a bit too off-roady for one of those.  And there are no parking bays/disabled spaces or pavements to straddle.  1/10.

[Missy Charm]

I have been in, driven, owned and worked on most generations of the Fiesta and do feel this is a real shame.  The proper ones, Dagenham built mark one to four (facelift), were everything a small car should be: stylish, sensible, nippy and fun to drive on a back road.  They were democratic, cheerful and cheap and, crucially, never naff.  There was nothing comical about driving a Fiesta, in the way there was with a Metro or, later, Micra; that was aided, of course, by the XR2 and the successors.  Remember the turbo and the RS1800?  They were really special inside and out.  All right, the Endura-E was an antique by 2002 but it just kept going.  Even someone like me was able to all sorts to it, along with sorting out all the other service bits.  That counts for something.

Is the Fiesta dead?  Yes.  Long live the Fiesta?  I expect so.  The economy is going down the tubes and three ton electric monster trucks are going to soon seem like a bad joke to many.  What then?  A loosening of a few regulations, a few greased palms, and faxes sent post haste to Messrs Ramakrishnan and Da Silva of Ford of India and Brazil (respectively) asking if they've got any small hatchbacks with small engines they might like to put on the next Europe-bound freighter.  

[MiniMinorMk3]

It's only a name badge.

 

Back in 1982 everyone got misty eyed over the Cortina turning into the Sierra, even the BBC did, making an Arena special about it. Come 1993 nobody really gave a damn about the Sierra, and it just slipped away quietly.

 

 

[UltraWomble]

1 hour ago, Missy Charm said:

 The economy is going down the tubes and three ton electric monster trucks are going to soon seem like a bad joke to many.  What then?  A loosening of a few regulations, a few greased palms, and faxes sent post haste to Messrs Ramakrishnan and Da Silva of Ford of India and Brazil (respectively) asking if they've got any small hatchbacks with small engines they might like to put on the next Europe-bound freighter.  

Something I've wondered about albeit quite loosely and not in very much depth is why as a nation we don't look more closely at ethanol fuels even if it's for short term use. 

A SMOLL Fiesta like car would be ace for that. 

 

[HMC]

Maybe they are doing our nostalgia a favour.

Lets remember our friends first car, grandads last car. The car we left home in. The car we broke up in. Etc etc etc

It sort of draws a line under things - that might happen lower down the ford model range going forward - niche subcompact semi crossover electric overweight infotainment centre.

So IMO a good thing all round

[Noel Tidybeard]

[OM646]

Sucks that me being a 23yo in Southern Europe I haven't been able to afford a new car yet, but by the time i can, all that'll be left on the market is blob crossovers, because suddenly people decided only one bodystyle is acceptable.

Guess I'll drive chod until the end of time

[Lacquer Peel]

4 hours ago, OM646 said:

Sucks that me being a 23yo in Southern Europe who hasn't been able to afford a new car yet, by the time i can, all that'll be left on the market is blob crossovers, because suddenly people decided only one bodystyle is acceptable.

Guess I'll drive chod until the end of time

Sensible

[Lacquer Peel]

13 hours ago, UltraWomble said:

Something I've wondered about albeit quite loosely and not in very much depth is why as a nation we don't look more closely at ethanol fuels even if it's for short term use. 

A SMOLL Fiesta like car would be ace for that. 

 

Where would the ethanol come from? Ethanol viable in a country like Brazil because they have masses of land they can grow the crops on. 

[JimH]

On 10/29/2022 at 8:53 PM, Ghosty said:

Ford have lost it completely. 
 

Have they? 

How much involvement does GM have in Europe at the moment? I don't know enough about how or why GM got rid of its European operations to draw any conclusions but could Ford be baling out of the same market? 

[UltraWomble]

5 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Where would the ethanol come from? Ethanol viable in a country like Brazil because they have masses of land they can grow the crops on. 

Well, as I say only something Ive given casual thought to really, and whilst there is unused suitable arable land in the UK you could argue that importing grain/starch for fermentation might be just as cost effective as importing raw crude oil for refining. Like wise using potato waste to ferment (which is something grown in abundance over here).

Only a small part of the solution and something that potentially could be adopted as a fuel option, maybe in time the percentage of refined petrol will be decreased and the percentage of distilled ethanol increased in pump fuel to reduce the use of crude oil. Perhaps small engine ethanol only vehicles may offer tax advantages as the waste products from combustion are CO2 and H2O - now I dont pretend to know enough to know whether the CO2 released on combustion is greater than the CO2 absorbed by the bio-matter during growth or roughly the same, making the CO2 cycle roughly circular - and that doesn't factor in additional CO2 from the production process.

I certainly wouldnt dismiss it out of hand as you appear to want to do because England is a small country. Likewise I also think that methane production from rotting bio-matter can and should be utilised for heat and light production. Again small scale, but can still make a small impact on the need to use fossil fuel.

[martc]

41 minutes ago, UltraWomble said:

Well, as I say only something Ive given casual thought to really, and whilst there is unused suitable arable land in the UK you could argue that importing grain/starch for fermentation might be just as cost effective as importing raw crude oil for refining. Like wise using potato waste to ferment (which is something grown in abundance over here).

Only a small part of the solution and something that potentially could be adopted as a fuel option, maybe in time the percentage of refined petrol will be decreased and the percentage of distilled ethanol increased in pump fuel to reduce the use of crude oil. Perhaps small engine ethanol only vehicles may offer tax advantages as the waste products from combustion are CO2 and H2O - now I dont pretend to know enough to know whether the CO2 released on combustion is greater than the CO2 absorbed by the bio-matter during growth or roughly the same, making the CO2 cycle roughly circular - and that doesn't factor in additional CO2 from the production process.

I certainly wouldnt dismiss it out of hand as you appear to want to do because England is a small country. Likewise I also think that methane production from rotting bio-matter can and should be utilised for heat and light production. Again small scale, but can still make a small impact on the need to use fossil fuel.

But isn't this already happening? Most petrol sold today contains 10% ethanol.  The problem is that ethanol is not as energy dense as petrol and adding much more to petrol would mean significant reduction in performance, an increase in engine damage and poor cold starting. This can be alleviated by adjustments to the engine but there are 10's of millions of vehicles that would need adjusting. In Brazil cars are built from the start to run on ethanol.

And methane from rotting bio-matter? Is already a very big thing in the UK  https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/area-of-crops-grown-for-bioenergy-in-england-and-the-uk-2008-2020/section-3-anaerobic-digestion#:~:text=By the end of 2020,from AD between 2011-2020.

[OM646]

Well tbh, cars in Brazil that are "flex fuel" can run on either petrol, etanol, or a mixture with any proportion. And some European engines are sold there as flex fuel.

From what I've heard tho, some modern engines struggle a lot with high percentage of etanol 

[warch]

I think one issue with the loads of empty space they have for ‘growing’ ethanol in Brazil is that it was formerly occupied by rainforest which does rather put the mockers on its green credentials.

I haven’t been following the new car market for years now, but as Mrs warch is about to buy our first ever new car I have been perusing the Trader to see what the options are. Much as I do love a good crossover it does seem to be a bit of a monoculture out there. Some model ranges are entirely faux by fours, others have the odd normal model but a huge comprehensive range of jacked up hatchbacks. I think a lot of manufacturers are sort of stuck halfway between old and new propulsion much like most prospective buyers who may fancy a plug in model but don’t want even higher leccy bills plus installation costs. 
 

I’m permanently about 10-15 years behind the curve though or 60 if you count the Landrover so it’ll be a while before I start worrying about electric power. I’m more worried about electric handbrakes at the moment.

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 minutes ago, warch said:

I’m more worried about electric handbrakes at the moment.

If it helps with new car choices, my Uncle's 72-reg Dacia Duster doesn't have a 'leccy HB, so maybe one like it is worth consideration.

[warch]

1 hour ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

If it helps with new car choices, my Uncle's 72-reg Dacia Duster doesn't have a 'leccy HB, so maybe one like it is worth consideration.

Mrs warchs current motah has one which is fine but I just prefer a nice reassuring lever for all my handbraking needs. I’ve mentioned this before and people look at you like you’re a Luddite advocating a return to a pre industrial economy.

Back on topic is it just that people miss the Fiesta concept, a small (albeit 4m plus in length in its latest iteration) no frills hatchback or are there genuine Fiesta fanboys/girls out there? 

[louiepj]

My mum drove fiestas always new or nearly new from mk3 through to mk6 until changing over to the Bmax till they stopped making it and now drives a Kuga. The change came as they wanted taller easier to get into cars as they were getting older.
They did notice that there was not really a difference in width parking the later fiestas and Bmaxes in their garage but now the Kuga sits outside as its too fat for garage.

[Datsuncog]

I was never much of a Fiesta fanboy, as they were everywhere in the 1990s and very popular with my schoolchums.

I could have had any number of very cheap Mk1 or Mk2 Fiestas from the classifieds, but fancied myself as being a bit different from all that - hence buying a totally fucked Cortina as my first car, in my typical irritating contrarian way.

My aunt drove a couple of Mk1 Fiestas, which were nearing end-of-life at the point she was running them in the early 1990s. She had some sort of special edition in blue with sticker graphics on it, plus gaping holes in the wings - and then later a red Popular, which she drove under a parked Bedford TK coal truck one evening. Ouch.

However, I did end up buying a very cheap Mk2 1.1 Ghia as stopgap transport in 2001 (for £120), an ex-Guernsey car with a mere 22k on the clock and which had recently received a quick blowover paintjob...

Out of MOT, but after a slightly hair-raising drive home (along private roads, of course) I fitted new brake discs and pads and it passed.

I surprised myself by actually really liking it - other than a weeping waterpump (£16 and about two hours to swap) and a fondness for eating front tyres (knackered track rod end which I couldn't manage to remove by myself) it never gave me any real bother.

I found the pedals were a bit close-set, so when driving with workboots on I occasionally managed to perform an unexpected emergency stop when really I was only trying to press in the clutch pedal.

Ran it for two and a half years until all the concealed rot burst out from under the shiny paint, after which it failed its MOT massively and I ended up selling the soggy remains for £60 (including three months' tax still on it).

Cheap motoring.

 

About a year earlier, one of my closest friends had acquired a brand new 'sadface' Mk4 Fiesta, chopping in his Mk3 Popular for it - as seen here just after picking it up from the main dealer.

I felt the Mk3 was actually a bit better screwed together - I'd done a fair bit of work on it, including various scrapyard upgrades - and this opinion was reinforced when the centring spring on the Mk4's gear lever broke after only nine months. Ford decided this was a 'cosmetic issue', and declined to repair it.

He eventually chopped this one in for a Rover 25, and got a surprisingly good deal for it.

WBZ7332 seems to have vanished from the DVLA car checker, so I'll assume it's just as dead as my old IXI is.

 

A girl I worked with at Halfords ran a then-newish facelift 'smiley' Mk5 in white, tricked out with 18" white alloys and blue double stripes on the roof and sides to give the vague impression of some sort of works RS version. Plus the obligatory 'bad boy' headlight eyebrows, and semi-ironic pink furry dice. Very Max Power.

Hey, at least it wasn't a Corsa B...

 

Lastly, MrsDC's mother chopped in her trusty Mk6 Escort saloon for a new Mk6 Fiesta 5-dr around 2007. Ostensibly bought for a younger sibling to learn to drive in, it proved quite an annoying vehicle, due to a tendency for it to completely die without warning at motorway speed - total systems failure, everything off, like someone had just punched a kill switch. It would then re-start just fine and continue on like nothing had happened.

The Ford dealer couldn't find a reason for this, and just shrugged. After this happened a few times, it was relegated to the back of the garage and not driven much thereafter. It also made an annoying whistling noise through the ventilation ducts when driven at around 50mph; again, this was fobbed off as "they all do that".

I only drove it once or twice, whenever one of my shitboxes was off the road for whatever reason. It was alright; I think it was the 1.2 so not really a ball of fire. I didn't much fancy it though, it seemed a bit tall and ponderous - I much preferred the Breadvan Polos I was running at the time.

 

So yeah. I'm not all that emotionally invested in Fiestas, but it's always sad to see a familiar name in motoring fall into oblivion. Probably inevitable - and in a way, I'm surprised Ford didn't kill the name off for the New Edge Mk6, like they did with the Escort.

But I can't see myself hurrying through the doors of a Ford dealership to sign on the dotted line for an electric Mustang SUV thing, so I guess I'm probably not Ford's target demographic these days...

[AnthonyG]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:05 PM, Dobloseven said:

I would think Ford in Europe need to join forces with another maker ASAP,for platform and technology sharing. Vauxhall/Opel/Stellantis seem to be committed to keeping making the Corsa, which can share parts with the former PSA models. They're joining up with VW for vans and pick ups so perhaps cars will be next. 

As I understand it they are joining forces with VW for electric car platforms in Europe.

Either that or they just exit the market due to not giving a shit anymore….See GM about 5 years ago. 

I think the Focus will be available until some time in 2025 but after that the Saarlouis plant will shut, or be sold to Geely or someone. 

[AnthonyG]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:10 PM, willswitchengage said:

Puma is made cheaply in Romania, Fiesta is Cologne in one of Ford's oldest and probably thus most expensive factories. Most other superminis are also made cheaply in Eastern Europe. Might be a legal and PR nightmare to close that big German factory so this could be a way of doing so by stealth so the company can focus on higher margin manufacturing.

Valencia and Cologne will get investment to convert to producing EVs. Maybe Romania as well when it needs it (I must admit I thought the Puma was made in Cologne). Saarlouis is for the chop, and Genk died several years ago.

The Turkish plant is a JV so doesn’t really count as Ford Europe. Not sure what will happen to Dagenham…it will depend on where they build power plants/motors for electric Transits. 

[AnthonyG]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:36 AM, JimH said:

Have they? 

How much involvement does GM have in Europe at the moment? 

Absolutely none, bar the odd country where you can get a officially imported Corvette/Cadillac or the like.

All of GM Europe was sold to PSA around 2018 or so.

GM have also exited all RHD markets worldwide in the last three years - Australia, Japan, Thailand etc. 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

5 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Lastly, MrsDC's mother chopped in her trusty Mk6 Escort saloon for a new Mk6 Fiesta 5-dr around 2007. Ostensibly bought for a younger sibling to learn to drive in, it proved quite an annoying vehicle, due to a tendency for it to completely die without warning at motorway speed - total systems failure, everything off, like someone had just punched a kill switch. It would then re-start just fine and continue on like nothing had happened.

The Ford dealer couldn't find a reason for this, and just shrugged. After this happened a few times, it was relegated to the back of the garage and not driven much thereafter.

My Dad's MK6 did this a couple of times going down towards Cuxton railway station (where he used to drop me off so I could get the train to Sixth Form).  The garage diagnosed it straight away as the fly-by-wire throttle unit.  They replaced the transmitter and it was absolutely fine after that.

[Carl1981]

I'm not really upset that the Fiesta is finished, although I will mostly remember them fondly...

I've had a few though... One of my older mates who was the first of our little group to get an actual car had a red mk1 popular that I loved and remember through rose-tinted glasses.

Finance wasn't really the done thing then and hadn't got common place yet, so when my first Fiesta came along about 4 years later in 1998, mk1's were all very tired. I let Dad talked me into a much better mk2, D118 EVT, £160 we paid, with a bit of tax and test (probably just enough to get us home 🤣).

This was a very tired and very end of life example. It was supposed to be diamond white, but it's 9 years had not been kind, it seemed to have spent most of its life parked up to its door handles in the sea! It had lots of orange staining and bubbly paint, on the arches, the sills, A-pillars, tail gate, doors and so on. The painted bumpers were particularly bad and the wings were beyond rescue.

A sensible person would have admitted their mistake and cut their losses, perhaps selling on again as spares or repairs. But my driving test was booked for about 6 weeks' time, so within a month it was a multi-coloured mk2 950 popular, blue bonnet, two 'pattern' black front wings and a red door. Many rattle cans later it was all white again, but not pretty and not shiny. Within a month lots of the rust was starting to show through again 🙄

We got around the general grotty appearance by getting an MOT failure XR2 and in true 1990's style we swapped all the fancy plastic bumpers, body kit, spoiler, fog lights and pepper pot alloys on to mine. This dealt with the terminal rot very professionally hid the rust from view and allowed me to get on with abusing my first car. This meant the very cheap and tatty mk2 was actually a very expensive tatty mk2! But it was cheap to insure, and I learned a lot about running cars from my 18 months in my first Fiesta. I remember that car very fondly.

My next fiesta (after many Rover and PSA products in between) was a 2001 zetec freestyle, mk4 .5? When Ford briefly dropped the sad face and put Focus/Mondeo style sharp/edge lights on the front as a face lift? That was a complete crock of cack, it was 25 times the price of my first one and whilst this one wasn't rotten it wasn't any better as 'an car', lots of niggly problems that the dealer didn't want to know about. I had it about 3 months, really didn't gel with it, someone must have done as it seemed to rock on until 2015 according to the MOT history.

Again after some time away, I picked up and ran a cheap (£300) sad face Fiesta for about 14 months. My mates all called it '50 shades of blue'. There's a real pleasure in knowing your car, that the guys in his 3 series sneers at, total purchase price was less than one month PCP on his 3 series! I loved and drove that car until the front suspension unexpectedly and spectacularly fell apart pulling off the driveway. Car was destroyed as a result and it had to be trailered off in the most undignified fashioned to its final resting place, Tyrones in Brum. Strangely, I mourned and I continue to miss that grumpy looking car.

Of about 30 cars I've had, Fiestas have been the most repeated and technically, if we include the XR2 donor car, I've had 4 of them.

I like the look of the most recent ones, but they seem so expensive. Not when new (Although £20k sounds a lot for a Fiesta), inflation adjusted when you consider how big they now are and the safety kit you get, they're the same sort of price new as they probably always have been. But three and four thousand pounds for an end-of-life Fiesta, no thanks. Fiestas have always been best sampled at the now non-existent £300 end of the used car market! 😂 

RIP Fiesta! (Definitely not heading over now to the sale section for another look at that yellow mk1! 🤣, don't do it, don't do it!)

[artdjones]

It just came to my mind that my instructor's car that I learned to drive in was a white X-reg 1.1L. Not that great a car to learn on, mk1 Fiestas had a pretty sharp clutch.

[sierraman]

I detested the Mach E when it came out but in time it’s become acceptable enough. The Puma, I can see the logic in it for most people...

None of these are cool cars though, they’re the car you end up with through circumstance. I feel quite sorry for the youth of today, faced with a choice between working a million hours in a zero hours contract to have the choice of either saving until they are fifty to get a bed sit on some godawful staircasing scheme in some dreadful location like a former Asbestos plant or slaving away to give 75% of their disposable income to PSA finance on some onerous lease deal every month. Now I’m thinking about it the death of the Fiesta probably signifies something a bit more philosophical, the end of being young as a feckless, Club 18-30 holidays, mad road trips, bumming about all summer with crap jobs getting pissed. Maybe I’m an old fossil but I look at everything now that’s there for kids of today and it look crap, job out look, the music, prospects in general. About the only thing that looks better, so I’m told, is the availability of women on tap via these internet things. 

[Metal Guru]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

I detested the Mach E when it came out but in time it’s become acceptable enough. The Puma, I can see the logic in it for most people...

None of these are cool cars though, they’re the car you end up with through circumstance. I feel quite sorry for the youth of today, faced with a choice between working a million hours in a zero hours contract to have the choice of either saving until they are fifty to get a bed sit on some godawful staircasing scheme in some dreadful location like a former Asbestos plant or slaving away to give 75% of their disposable income to PSA finance on some onerous lease deal every month. Now I’m thinking about it the death of the Fiesta probably signifies something a bit more philosophical, the end of being young as a feckless, Club 18-30 holidays, mad road trips, bumming about all summer with crap jobs getting pissed. Maybe I’m an old fossil but I look at everything now that’s there for kids of today and it look crap, job out look, the music, prospects in general. About the only thing that looks better, so I’m told, is the availability of women on tap via these internet things. 

The worst thing about the Mach E was Ford’s cynical use of the Mustang name.

[sierraman]

40 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

The worst thing about the Mach E was Ford’s cynical use of the Mustang name.

Yeah I didn’t like that. 🤣