1963 Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail. Now in winter storage.

[Conan]

I personally would not go for DEXRON-III. And I would be a bit wary of the Mobil ATF 220 which is more for DEXRON-II, compatible with DEXRON but a generation apart from Type A Suffix A so can't be sure it's actually tested as fully compatible. Then again Manual Transmission is not as picky as Automatic and it'll probably work okay for a long while. Type A Suffix A haven't been available for many years anyway and people have to go for substitute anyhow.

I have to say I'm one of those people who're picky about GL4/GL5 gear oil, although most cars on the road are on GL5 anyway. Your mileage might vary.

From the list it seems Mobil ATF 200 is the "correct" fluid, but may be difficult to find these day.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Maybe I misunderstood something, struggling to understand ATF oils it seems like a complicated mess.

Mobil ATF 200 is difficult to get hold of, but I'll do some searching and see what I can find.

Kroon oil actually has the Mercedes W110 in its oil selection guide and gets Kroon Classic ATF A there, but like other oils, this is almost impossible to get hold of.

I just have to keep looking.

[artdjones]

15 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Maybe I misunderstood something, struggling to understand ATF oils it seems like a complicated mess.

Mobil ATF 200 is difficult to get hold of, but I'll do some searching and see what I can find.

Kroon oil actually has the Mercedes W110 in its oil selection guide and gets Kroon Classic ATF A there, but like other oils, this is almost impossible to get hold of.

I just have to keep looking.

I looked at the Total version, but the only place I saw an ad for 1l bottles is Bulgaria. Everyone else only seems to sell 20l containers.

[Dyslexic Viking]

5 minutes ago, artdjones said:

I looked at the Total version, but the only place I saw an ad for 1l bottles is Bulgaria. Everyone else only seems to sell 20l containers.

Thanks for looking. After much searching myself, I found that Autodoc has Kroon oil and they have Kroon Classic ATF A which Kroon recommended for this and fulfills Suffix A and MB 236.2. So I think I'll just buy that from Autodoc.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I have now ordered gearbox oil from Autodoc which is the oil recommended by Kroon and which matches what @Conan said. I also ordered Kroon's recommended oil for the diff, among other things.

Big thanks to @Conan your help helped a lot with this.

If I've made any mistakes here, don't be afraid to say so.

If others are struggling to find lubricants for old cars, check out Kroon https://www.kroon-oil.com/en/ another thing I like about their classic oils is that they come in contemporary metal containers. Which is very nice and they will not be thrown away after use but put on the shelf for decoration.

[Conan]

I'm glad you find my ramblings to actually be useful. 😄

Lubricants for classic cars is a topic I find both fascinating and annoying. It's interesting how and why each type of fluids is use or made obsolete. It's annoying that a lot of times those special fluids aren't available in your market because it is too small. High ZDDP oil is an example, along with aforementioned Classic ATF. GL4 gear oil is also surprisingly hard to find despite it being required for synchro not to break in many cases. Yet these are easy ones and there is so much more obscure shit the further you go back.

At the same time I put E10 pez in all my car and not give a single fuck.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Today was the first drive in 2023. Started with driving 8 km up to an unmanned fuel station to fill up with diesel. And everything worked well and it drove well so I got brave and drove a further 12 km up to the local garage so in total it went 40 km today without breaking down which is a big win.

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

But have some new problems it is very difficult to start both cold and hot, I wonder if when I changed the ball joints to speed likages if I may have messed something up will look into it, also welcome tips on what else it could be as this is first time I have this problem with an old diesel.

The other problem is that it is impossible to get hold of someone who can weld the little things that needs to be welded on this. Talked to the owner of a local garage today who knows many people and he also says that it is impossible to find anyone now who does this kind of work.

So I have no choice but to do it myself which is a shame as this one deserves better than what I can achieve but what can I do it's just the way it is.

I also don't know how attaching the seat belt fasteners with my crap welding will be but just have to make the best of it.

[Nullzwei]

3 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

But have some new problems it is very difficult to start both cold and hot, I wonder if when I changed the ball joints to speed likages if I may have messed something up will look into it, also welcome tips on what else it could be as this is first time I have this problem with an old diesel.

The other problem is that it is impossible to get hold of someone who can weld the little things that needs to be welded on this. Talked to the owner of a local garage today who knows many people and he also says that it is impossible to find anyone now who does this kind of work.

So I have no choice but to do it myself which is a shame as this one deserves better than what I can achieve but what can I do it's just the way it is.

I also don't know how attaching the seat belt fasteners with my crap welding will be but just have to make the best of it.

Regarding the poor starting, hot or cold, does your engine use a vacuum to stop the engine? Have no idea if this is relevant to your car but on a w201 diesel if you have a vacuum leak then the vacuum actuated stop solenoid on the injection pump will take a long time to 'reset' to the point where fuel is allowed to flow again.

[Dyslexic Viking]

6 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

Regarding the poor starting, hot or cold, does your engine use a vacuum to stop the engine? Have no idea if this is relevant to your car but on a w201 diesel if you have a vacuum leak then the vacuum actuated stop solenoid on the injection pump will take a long time to 'reset' to the point where fuel is allowed to flow again.

I have no idea what kind of stop function this engine has. But this is a good suggestion and something I will look into. Thanks.

[Low ontime]

4 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

But have some new problems it is very difficult to start both cold and hot, I wonder if when I changed the ball joints to speed likages if I may have messed something up will look into it, also welcome tips on what else it could be as this is first time I have this problem with an old diesel.

The other problem is that it is impossible to get hold of someone who can weld the little things that needs to be welded on this. Talked to the owner of a local garage today who knows many people and he also says that it is impossible to find anyone now who does this kind of work.

So I have no choice but to do it myself which is a shame as this one deserves better than what I can achieve but what can I do it's just the way it is.

I also don't know how attaching the seat belt fasteners with my crap welding will be but just have to make the best of it.

Plenty on here I’m sure will help with tips on a strong weld.

mig welding forum has a good starter section too as well as many videos on you tube to show you how.

another string to the bow if you run older stuff. 

[wuvvum]

My diesel W115 had a cable to the pump to shut the engine off - I would assume this one is probably the same?

[Dyslexic Viking]

7 hours ago, wuvvum said:

My diesel W115 had a cable to the pump to shut the engine off - I would assume this one is probably the same?

It is possible and I will check, thanks.

[Dyslexic Viking]

9 hours ago, Low ontime said:

Plenty on here I’m sure will help with tips on a strong weld.

mig welding forum has a good starter section too as well as many videos on you tube to show you how.

another string to the bow if you run older stuff. 

Welding on cars is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be, at least for me. I've tried to learn it but it's not in me. I can make some weld repairs but they are not very good. The same applies to fine tuning carburettors, point ignition, timing belts etc people make it seem easy but it's not.

[Mally]

Depending where the seat belts need to be fastened it may be possible to just fit a plate under the mounting and bolt it.

Some early seat belts were secured to the floor behind the seat, and just looped over the seat back.

It's not the way to go, but is better than on show bodged welding.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I should be able to handle the seat belt fasteners that have to be welded in. After all, it is just a piece of thick metal that is placed next to another piece of thick metal and then welded.

They will also be covered with carpet so will not be visible.

But when I says that, I guess I gona manage to mess it up somehow.

[Talbot]

The type of anchor you have shown there doesn't go under the carpet.. you drill a hole in the floor/body/wherever and then that plate gets welded onto the back of the panel you've drilled, with the seatbelt coming through from "the other side".  So it will be visible.  Of all the parts you should get done by a competent welder, this is the one.

When it comes to welding, you are right to be careful about what you try and don't try.  Car body welding, especially old steel with paint/sealants/primers/etc. is some of the most difficult welding there is.  Thin sections, bad access, contaminanted metal all make for a tough time.   if you add in a cheap-ish welding machine and inexperience, you're battling every issue there is.  It's the complete opposite end of the scale from welding thick sections of new steel, in a workshop with a decent welding machine.  That's comparatively easy.

But at the same time you have to start somewhere, and everyone who can now do good quality welding on a car has in the past done some pretty shockingly bad stuff, which is how you learn.

But definitely start on cosmetic panels first..

[Mally]

I may place that under the floor,probably with a larger plate in between, best if in a corner, and just bolt the belt to it.

Provided the floor is in decent condition, it's not going to pull through. (I hope)!

[Tepper]

Welding can be tricky to pick up, but it boils down to practice. The best thing you can do is practice welding a rusty car that doesn't matter to you, but still try to do the best job you can. Could you pick up a scrap car to play with? Or anything that uses car bodywork thickness steel really. Once you've done a few jobs, it starts to get easier and you'll feel more comfortable tackling the Mercedes.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I have seen the seat belt fasteners welded on the inside of the car and if they don't go under the carpet, I just have to cut holes for them in the carpet. And the seat belts I have ordered have 3 attachment points if I remember correctly, the top of the b post is there, the other is at the bottom of the b post where I have to weld an attachment point and the 3 will be in the gearbox tunnel both it and the b post are solid and without old repairs. And welding on the underside is not easy as it is full of underseal. And it would probably have been best to let someone who is good at welding do the work with the seat belts, but when that is not an option, I have no other choice but to try.

 

And this is probably something I should say more about this car, this is far from a fine example. It has a DIY paint job that looks nice from a distance but has a lot of flaws. The whole car is full of old welding repairs and not all of them are good. There is also a fair amount of filler in certain areas. And if this were to be restored properly, the entire floor should be replaced, so if I make 2 small repairs to the floor that are not so good, does it really matter? This is a car that if it had been stripped down to the steel, many bad surprises would appear.

Now maybe I'm being a bit harsh but this car really shouldn't have survived few cars like this have. That someone sometime in the 80s or 90s saved this is incredible, because then it was just a old tired, rusty ex taxi with insanely high mileage. 

But don't get me wrong, for me this gives the car character and makes it more interesting. So I don't see this as a bad thing. 

[320touring]

16 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Today was the first drive in 2023. Started with driving 8 km up to an unmanned fuel station to fill up with diesel. And everything worked well and it drove well so I got brave and drove a further 12 km up to the local garage so in total it went 40 km today without breaking down which is a big win.

 

Good to see this out and about, and nice to hear you gaining confidence in it - I'm doing similar with the Oxford. Using it at least once a week if I can - so it seems a normal thing to do, rather than an event.

 

[Mally]

Bottom of the B post you should be able to bolt through and plate under if the floor is substantial enough.

If its not, you have more to worry about than welding a seat belt bracket.

Gearbox tunnels tend to be solid and the pull on a belt is sideways to the metal surface.

Hit it with an hammer and if it's still in one piece a plate inside the tunnel should be sufficient. Welded or not.

I've raced a few bangers like that, and had similar fibreglass kit cars if it comes to it, 

[Talbot]

21 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I have seen the seat belt fasteners welded on the inside of the car

This is far from ideal.  That puts the welds in tension in the event of a crash.  It is *massively* better that the bolt goes through the floorpan with the spreader plate and nut on the other side of the body from the seatbelt.  That way the welding is mainly to keep everything together, and in the event of a crash, the spreader plate distributes the load through the floorpan/bodywork.

[danthecapriman]

Can you find a local metal stockist, engineering company etc etc that might have scraps of steel off cuts? Maybe worth asking if you can have some to use for welding practice? There are places on eBay too that sell off cuts & scraps, I got some steel & ally recently for not much. Failing that, even a scrap car - just take the bonnet or roof skin home and chop that up to practice with. 
Id definitely echo what others said, questionable welds on a wing or something isn’t too much of an issue, but a seatbelt anchor definitely needs doing right, otherwise it’s pointless fitting it really, you might as well not have it! That plate does look like it’s meant to go outside the cabin of the car, almost so the seatbelt inside the cabin is trying to pull it into the cabin. It basically acts like a big washer on a bolt to prevent it pulling through the body. It needs plenty of heat and penetration into that plate and the cars body to really make it solid.

When I learned to weld I started the basics in a college course, then had a friend and colleague teach me further. Then it just comes down to practice and time doing it. If you keep at it you will pick it up eventually and even if it’s not absolutely perfect it’ll certainly be good enough. Some of my early attempts looked absolutely shocking and just pulled apart but now I’m not bad at all. Though I still balls up occasionally!! 
Tbh, if you run old(er) car’s welding is a skill that you do really need to have.

Cars looking absolutely fantastic though👍    
Great to see it out on the road where it belongs.

[juular]

I'd echo what others have said. Try to get hold of some sheet metal, clean it up, and practice lots. After some time there will be a light bulb moment where it just makes sense and you will get a bit of confidence to start gluing bits onto cars.

And post lots, ask questions, show us photos, especially the ugly bits where it has gone wrong, because there's so much knowledge on this forum I think lots of people will be able to help out.

Great to see the car being driven.

[danthecapriman]

This kind of thing,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224051596208?var=522813150166&hash=item342a840bb0:g:eqYAAOSweLte7MOP&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwEG6naYPQ4hTpn5hbW93pnPjTIyxwPA7PrtnOKewBXuvKRgEP90f1w13zCsXIUoFW9c%2F1R8FI2GOXUcJdnrC4RmqO3XnFDRhLQe0uofQ4qYDVbIGhuFPBjY1Snu5XgP6iX65xIQiIzKjp0N8lOA8LwWsUAj0FxjgqnpZ9hFpisOoa9u%2FO%2BZ6r040zeo2t2VcMiTKgPCizDG%2B8rJIF%2FVew2gQ82iEp5SLcvwPbQpnyDYoviGTF7WID24veDyAoG36JQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABlBMUOTPnqH4YQ

If you can’t find any local, there’s absolutely loads on eBay.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Thank you all for suggestions, inputs, etc. I have tried before to learn how to carry out good rust repairs with welding, but I can't do it. It is frustrating and especially when everyone makes it seem so easy. The problems I have are hard to explain but my dad is like that too, you don't want us to renovate a house but we can tear it down if it makes sense? It's the same with my camper project I just can't get it right no matter how hard I try.

And the seatbelts seem to be a bigger nightmare than I thought so I'll see what I do with them, I almost want to give them up now if I'm honest.

[mat_the_cat]

If you are really struggling to find someone and can't do it yourself, then in your shoes I would rivet the plate to the reverse side of the shell. As @Talbot says, the welds shouldn't be taking the forces in a crash, just stopping the plate rotating when you mount the seatbelt. So a mechanical fastener should be able to do the same job without affecting the safety of the belt.

[Talbot]

6 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I have tried before to learn how to carry out good rust repairs with welding, but I can't do it.

What have you tried welding and with what welding equipment?  There is a world of difference between using a cheap-ass ebay arc welder, with damp rods, on painted rusty thin-section steel, working upside-down in the pissing rain, and using a reasonably decent MiG machine, with 0.6mm wire, Argoshield medium, lovely clean bright steel, working with good access on a nice pleasant day.

Even the very best welder in the world will produce the shittest welds known to exist in one of those circumstances, and I'm fairly sure you can guess which!

It requires patience and practice.  It also requires good fabrication skills, as of course the welding is only the electric glue to stick it all together.  Having parts that fit is a masive part of the battle.

[Dyslexic Viking]

8 hours ago, Talbot said:

What have you tried welding and with what welding equipment?  There is a world of difference between using a cheap-ass ebay arc welder, with damp rods, on painted rusty thin-section steel, working upside-down in the pissing rain, and using a reasonably decent MiG machine, with 0.6mm wire, Argoshield medium, lovely clean bright steel, working with good access on a nice pleasant day.

Even the very best welder in the world will produce the shittest welds known to exist in one of those circumstances, and I'm fairly sure you can guess which!

It requires patience and practice.  It also requires good fabrication skills, as of course the welding is only the electric glue to stick it all together.  Having parts that fit is a masive part of the battle.

I have only used Mig welding. And my welder is a gasless cheap Mig with gassless 0.8 wire, also bought gasless 0.6 wire recommended by @juular last year but not used yet.

And I think I can easily learn to make good welds, but the fabrication part is what's worse, making and adapting parts and making it happen and being good is what I really struggle with and will never master. And I've really tried to learn this by working on various cars over the years but it's not in me. I can make repairs to get a car through MOT but it won't be pretty or good.

I have expanded the search for someone who can carry out work on this and is the same no one wants to do this. Even body shops will not take this on. I'll try a little more before I give up.