Historical novel help: different sort of project

[somewhatfoolish]

10 hours ago, 3VOM said:

I'll have to wait for a biker to remember when the 125 limit came in. If your script is set early enough Eric would be able to ride up to 250cc and no one would go for a 125cc if they didn't need to.

It was 1983.

[Missy Charm]

On 24/12/2021 at 19:06, 3VOM said:

I'll have to wait for a biker to remember when the 125 limit came in. If your script is set early enough Eric would be able to ride up to 250cc and no one would go for a 125cc if they didn't need to.

Thank you kindly, changed it!

[warren t claim]

On 12/24/2021 at 3:43 PM, Missy Charm said:

Short extract with motorbike stuff, just to give an indication of levels of detail.  Clifford Hook 'the man' is a factory production supervisor, Sarah is the protagonist and the others are fellow workers.    

 

‘Don’t worry’, the man said ‘all this fuss over a toy car. Who wants a car anyway, when you can ride a motorbike? You might think they break down a lot. Maybe once but now we’ve got the Japanese ones. Pearls of things, that’s what Hondas are, from big to small.’

‘How’s Eric finding the 125?’, asked Sarah, pouncing on the chance to change the subject ‘Does he still like it?’

‘He’s my son, of course he still likes it! You know we’re thinking about a run out to the seaside this weekend.’

‘Go down to Crimpton-on-Sea and see Sarah’s folks’, suggested Julie

‘They’re in Clacton, not Dovercourt’, Sarah said.

‘Is there a difference?’, asked Angela

‘Clacton’s got razzmatazz, and a pier with real live sealions in a tank, I took my mother to see them.’

‘What did she think?’, asked Hook

‘Doesn’t really think about anything, my mum’, said Sarah.

‘You go to Clacton on the train, don’t you’, said the supervisor ‘Never my favourite, that line; electric multiple units. I prefer a locomotive hauled service.’

‘That’s super, Mr Hook’, said Mrs Gomersall. ‘Oughtn’t you be telling them to get on, though? It’s starting to seem like nobody ever does any work in this factory.’

 

The bike test back then was piss easy. Only commuters stayed with learner bikes back then. The new 125cc learner limit was incoming back then so all learners mounted on 250 bikes just went and took their tests rather than have to sell their 250LC/X7 at a loss as the value of them halved overnight.

[warren t claim]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:04 PM, Missy Charm said:

 

To set the scene: it's April 3rd 1981.  Easter is coming up and Hill Street Blues was on Thames last night; The Little World of Don Camillo was on the other side, for those whose parents only watched the BBC.  Manufacturing output is down by about 9%; unemployment is high, especially among the youth; Thatcher isn't greatly popular as monetarist policy doesn't seem to be doing what was claimed; the economy isn't quite in recession; Healey and Benn are vying for deputy leadership of The Labour Party.  Sarah Delaney, our protagonist, lives in a rented room in Romford and works in a small factory in a still industrial Barking.  

The roads are, of course, full of old favourites... 

 

 

Amstrad is/was only a few miles away and was booming at the time.

[Missy Charm]

O.K., something slightly different.  I'm also working on a short story set in modern times (2018), with a supernatural theme.  One sequence involves a modern Range Rover not obeying its owner, just wondered if I've got the details right.  Extract below.  

[she] realised she still had her coat on and was too hot. Georgia turned into the town square, pulled the Range Rover into an empty space and got out. She put her coat onto the rear seat, climbed back into the front and dropped her hand to the gear selector wheel to change from park to reverse. Her fingers fell straight to the console instead.

‘What’, Georgia said. She looked down. The gear selector had disappeared into the console. It could do such a thing, being retractable, indeed it was supposed to do such a thing, but only when the ignition was turned off. Starting the car caused it to rise up proud of the surrounding trim, allowing the edge to be gripped and the wheel rotated between its various gear selection positions. The wheel was meant to stay up at all times the engine was running. Georgia glanced at the tachometer, which sat at a steady idle. The engine was running, she could hear it. Just to be sure she prodded the accelerator and the big diesel gave a muted roar in response. She looked back at the dashboard; the gear indicator showed a ‘P’, as did the selector’s illuminated surround. Georgia pressed her palm against the flat top of the selector wheel and tried to turn it in its retracted position. No good, it felt as if it was locked. A rising panic gripped her, accompanied by bitter bile at the back of her throat. Georgia scrabbled about in the cabin, opening the four wheel drive’s myriad storage bins and concealed cubbyholes in a desperate effort to find a tool of some sort. She turned up a Bic biro, took the lid off and tried to insert the pocket clip into the gap between the trim piece and the selector wheel’s edge, intending to lever it out of park. Georgia gritted her teeth, wiggling the plastic lid for all it was worth and getting nowhere.

‘Fuck!’, she cried to the empty cabin and threw the pen lid at the passenger’s window. ‘Fuck, fuck, fuck!’ She slapped the steering wheel, lightly of course for she didn’t want to damage the Range Rover. Rational thought was needed: the gear selector’s retraction mechanism, indeed the whole car, was controlled by computers. If a computer malfunctioned, one’s first course of action was to turn it off and restart it. The Range Rover needed to be powered down, rested and fired up again. Georgia, pleased with herself for working that out, pressed the ‘Start/Stop’ button and the engine died. She counted up to ten, put her foot on the brake and pressed the button again with a silent prayer. Immediately, the instrument panel lit up and the heater fan came on; the rev counter and speedometer dials swept from zero to maximum and back again. The engine did not start. She tried again. Nothing. Not even a twitch from the dials that time. Again. The panel lights went out and the heater switched itself off. Again. Nought but a barely audible click from the switch itself. Georgia bit the insides of her cheeks to stop herself screaming and, as calmly as she was able, got out of the car and closed the door. A full reset, she thought; lock the Range Rover, unlock it again and start the engine. Simple. She pressed the lock button on the key, the car’s indicators flashed and its wing mirrors folded in. With a deep breath and a growing sense of dread, Georgia pressed the unlock button. The car failed to respond.

[wuvvum]

55 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

modern Range Rover

@Six-cylinder is our resident expert on such matters.  Assuming it's a proper Range Rover and not an Evoque.

[Mr Pastry]

9 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

The car failed to respond.

Judging by many other threads on here, isn't that just what all modern cars do, all the time?  

[Missy Charm]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Judging by many other threads on here, isn't that just what all modern cars do, all the time?  

That's a point I wanted to make!  Given so much is now automated, we don't actually have as much control over our environment as we used to.  It is entirely possible for machines to start misbehaving.  There's also supposed to be a whiff of Maximum Overdrive about that extract.  

[Six-cylinder]

10 hours ago, wuvvum said:

@Six-cylinder is our resident expert on such matters.  Assuming it's a proper Range Rover and not an Evoque.

I will have a look at it this morning but generally novels especially if they are adapted for TV are full of inaccuracies so I would worry too much.

 

[Six-cylinder]

11 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

O.K., something slightly different.  I'm also working on a short story set in modern times (2018), with a supernatural theme.  One sequence involves a modern Range Rover not obeying its owner, just wondered if I've got the details right.  Extract below.  

[she] realised she still had her coat on and was too hot. Georgia turned into the town square, pulled the Range Rover into an empty space and got out. She put her coat onto the rear seat, climbed back into the front and dropped her hand to the gear selector wheel to change from park to reverse. Her fingers fell straight to the console instead.

‘What’, Georgia said. She looked down. The gear selector had disappeared into the console. It could do such a thing, being retractable, indeed it was supposed to do such a thing, but only when the ignition was turned off. Starting the car caused it to rise up proud of the surrounding trim, allowing the edge to be gripped and the wheel rotated between its various gear selection positions. The wheel was meant to stay up at all times the engine was running. Georgia glanced at the tachometer, which sat at a steady idle. The engine was running, she could hear it. Just to be sure she prodded the accelerator and the big diesel gave a muted roar in response. She looked back at the dashboard; the gear indicator showed a ‘P’, as did the selector’s illuminated surround. Georgia pressed her palm against the flat top of the selector wheel and tried to turn it in its retracted position. No good, it felt as if it was locked. A rising panic gripped her, accompanied by bitter bile at the back of her throat. Georgia scrabbled about in the cabin, opening the four wheel drive’s myriad storage bins and concealed cubbyholes in a desperate effort to find a tool of some sort. She turned up a Bic biro, took the lid off and tried to insert the pocket clip into the gap between the trim piece and the selector wheel’s edge, intending to lever it out of park. Georgia gritted her teeth, wiggling the plastic lid for all it was worth and getting nowhere.

‘Fuck!’, she cried to the empty cabin and threw the pen lid at the passenger’s window. ‘Fuck, fuck, fuck!’ She slapped the steering wheel, lightly of course for she didn’t want to damage the Range Rover. Rational thought was needed: the gear selector’s retraction mechanism, indeed the whole car, was controlled by computers. If a computer malfunctioned, one’s first course of action was to turn it off and restart it. The Range Rover needed to be powered down, rested and fired up again. Georgia, pleased with herself for working that out, pressed the ‘Start/Stop’ button and the engine died. She counted up to ten, put her foot on the brake and pressed the button again with a silent prayer. Immediately, the instrument panel lit up and the heater fan came on; the rev counter and speedometer dials swept from zero to maximum and back again. The engine did not start. She tried again. Nothing. Not even a twitch from the dials that time. Again. The panel lights went out and the heater switched itself off. Again. Nought but a barely audible click from the switch itself. Georgia bit the insides of her cheeks to stop herself screaming and, as calmly as she was able, got out of the car and closed the door. A full reset, she thought; lock the Range Rover, unlock it again and start the engine. Simple. She pressed the lock button on the key, the car’s indicators flashed and its wing mirrors folded in. With a deep breath and a growing sense of dread, Georgia pressed the unlock button. The car failed to respond.

 

It looks fine to me.

Just this passage gives me nightmares as my Range Rover is now 5 years old and given my past experience of Range Rovers I have all this to come!

I hate the rotary gear selector because I have to look at it to select a gear and have always had a fear it won't rise!

[Missy Charm]

11 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

 

It looks fine to me.

Just this passage gives me nightmares as my Range Rover is now 5 years old and given my past experience of Range Rovers I have all this to come!

I hate the rotary gear selector because I have to look at it to select a gear and have always had a fear it won't rise!

Thank you kindly!  Good to know that it seems all right to you.  I've not driven a Range Rover, but my first thought on seeing the rising gear wheel was 'what if it doesn't pop up?'; obviously hoping that isn't a problem for you, of course.  

[Noel Tidybeard]

17 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

O.K., something slightly different.  I'm also working on a short story set in modern times (2018), with a supernatural theme.  One sequence involves a modern Range Rover not obeying its owner, just wondered if I've got the details right.  Extract below.  

[she] realised she still had her coat on and was too hot. Georgia turned into the town square, pulled the Range Rover into an empty space and got out. She put her coat onto the rear seat, climbed back into the front and dropped her hand to the gear selector wheel to change from park to reverse. Her fingers fell straight to the console instead.

‘What’, Georgia said. She looked down. The gear selector had disappeared into the console. It could do such a thing, being retractable, indeed it was supposed to do such a thing, but only when the ignition was turned off. Starting the car caused it to rise up proud of the surrounding trim, allowing the edge to be gripped and the wheel rotated between its various gear selection positions. The wheel was meant to stay up at all times the engine was running. Georgia glanced at the tachometer, which sat at a steady idle. The engine was running, she could hear it. Just to be sure she prodded the accelerator and the big diesel gave a muted roar in response. She looked back at the dashboard; the gear indicator showed a ‘P’, as did the selector’s illuminated surround. Georgia pressed her palm against the flat top of the selector wheel and tried to turn it in its retracted position. No good, it felt as if it was locked. A rising panic gripped her, accompanied by bitter bile at the back of her throat. Georgia scrabbled about in the cabin, opening the four wheel drive’s myriad storage bins and concealed cubbyholes in a desperate effort to find a tool of some sort. She turned up a Bic biro, took the lid off and tried to insert the pocket clip into the gap between the trim piece and the selector wheel’s edge, intending to lever it out of park. Georgia gritted her teeth, wiggling the plastic lid for all it was worth and getting nowhere.

‘Fuck!’, she cried to the empty cabin and threw the pen lid at the passenger’s window. ‘Fuck, fuck, fuck!’ She slapped the steering wheel, lightly of course for she didn’t want to damage the Range Rover. Rational thought was needed: the gear selector’s retraction mechanism, indeed the whole car, was controlled by computers. If a computer malfunctioned, one’s first course of action was to turn it off and restart it. The Range Rover needed to be powered down, rested and fired up again. Georgia, pleased with herself for working that out, pressed the ‘Start/Stop’ button and the engine died. She counted up to ten, put her foot on the brake and pressed the button again with a silent prayer. Immediately, the instrument panel lit up and the heater fan came on; the rev counter and speedometer dials swept from zero to maximum and back again. The engine did not start. She tried again. Nothing. Not even a twitch from the dials that time. Again. The panel lights went out and the heater switched itself off. Again. Nought but a barely audible click from the switch itself. Georgia bit the insides of her cheeks to stop herself screaming and, as calmly as she was able, got out of the car and closed the door. A full reset, she thought; lock the Range Rover, unlock it again and start the engine. Simple. She pressed the lock button on the key, the car’s indicators flashed and its wing mirrors folded in. With a deep breath and a growing sense of dread, Georgia pressed the unlock button. The car failed to respond.

standard! 😁

 

also replace "range rover" with "renault migraine"🤣

[Mr Pastry]

@Missy CharmCan I respectfully point out that your extract will puzzle anyone who doesn't know what the gearchange on a modern Range Rover is like?   Maybe your readers move in such circles, as clearly do most Autoshiters, but I have only ever driven one RR which was an early one with a proper gear lever.  I struggled to imagine what a "gear selector wheel" was like.  I found myself picturing some sort of steampunk thing,  which made no sense on a Range Rover.  Then when I saw the photo it isn't even a wheel, it's a knob.   Which was actually a bit disappointing.   Just saying.

[AnthonyG]

Other modern large prestige SUVs are available, with more normal gear change mechanisms. I suspect they can all break down in frustrating ways. 

Are the readers meant to be sympathetic to her? If so I would suggest she isn’t driving a large SUV. Unless this sort of person is your target reader, of course.

From the name and RR I am assuming she is a footballer’s wife/Cheshire housewife type of person. What my grandparents would have called  ‘nouveau riches’

If she is old school posh she would be Georgina, not Georgia, which is a hideous modern confection circa 1990 - see also ‘Paige’, ‘Riley’ and any other name sourced from an American daytime soap. 

EDIT: apologies if the above comes across a bit blunt - it’s your novel, not mine. Writing is something that sounds easy but actually takes much commitment and energy, something I would never have the patience for! Much respect to you 🙂

Also I’m now really hoping your first name isn’t Georgia, Paige or Riley 🤭!!!

[AnthonyG]

Just to add I totally understand the gear wheel selector thing, but as I’ve driven an Jaguar XF with one for the last 8 years it would be pretty damn worrying if I didn’t…

[Missy Charm]

57 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Other modern large prestige SUVs are available, with more normal gear change mechanisms. I suspect they can all break down in frustrating ways. 

Are the readers meant to be sympathetic to her? If so I would suggest she isn’t driving a large SUV. Unless this sort of person is your target reader, of course.

From the name and RR I am assuming she is a footballer’s wife/Cheshire housewife type of person. What my grandparents would have called  ‘nouveau riches’

If she is old school posh she would be Georgina, not Georgia, which is a hideous modern confection circa 1990 - see also ‘Paige’, ‘Riley’ and any other name sourced from an American daytime soap. 

EDIT: apologies if the above comes across a bit blunt - it’s your novel, not mine. Writing is something that sounds easy but actually takes much commitment and energy, something I would never have the patience for! Much respect to you 🙂

Also I’m now really hoping your first name isn’t Georgia, Paige or Riley 🤭!!!

As regards the character, you are spot on on all counts as regards age, class background and whether or not she is a 'sympathetic' character.  The only slight deviation is that she's a director of a family firm with an honest belief that she got there through hard work.  What you've said is an enormous compliment.  

[warren t claim]

22 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

O.K., something slightly different.  I'm also working on a short story set in modern times (2018), with a supernatural theme.  One sequence involves a modern Range Rover not obeying its owner, just wondered if I've got the details right.  Extract below.  

 

You do know that there was a Hammer house Of Horror (I think) story involving a black Capri II 3.0 S/GT that was possessed?

[mintwth]

10 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

I hate the rotary gear selector because I have to look at it to select a gear and have always had a fear it won't rise!

Is that why modern Range Rover drivers buy viagra? 

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

she's a director of a family firm with an honest belief that she got there through hard work. 

So there's something to make 'dear reader' doubt that?

[Missy Charm]

On 13/01/2022 at 17:10, Mr Pastry said:

@Missy CharmCan I respectfully point out that your extract will puzzle anyone who doesn't know what the gearchange on a modern Range Rover is like?   Maybe your readers move in such circles, as clearly do most Autoshiters, but I have only ever driven one RR which was an early one with a proper gear lever.  I struggled to imagine what a "gear selector wheel" was like.  I found myself picturing some sort of steampunk thing,  which made no sense on a Range Rover.  Then when I saw the photo it isn't even a wheel, it's a knob.   Which was actually a bit disappointing.   Just saying.

That's a perfectly valid point.   Having re-read it I agree, there does need to be greater explanation regarding what the thing looks like.  Thank you.

22 hours ago, warren t claim said:

You do know that there was a Hammer house Of Horror (I think) story involving a black Capri II 3.0 S/GT that was possessed?

'Growing Pains', apparently!  I've never seen it.  Interestingly, Hammer House of Horror came out in 1980 so predates Christine in both novel and film form.  Possessed machinery, however, is bound to be a recurring motif.

20 hours ago, High Jetter said:

So there's something to make 'dear reader' doubt that?

There is, just not in this particular extract.  

[Justin Case]

One thing about 1981 was PCP hadn't been invented (I think) and most cars were fairly mundane, eg a friend who was a junior rep had a thoroughly miserable basic Escort Mark 2, you had to be a manager to get a Cortina and only the top brass had a Zodiac. Fords were popular because they were so carefully stratified that a company could have a suitable Ford for everyone entitled to a company car. I had just bought my first Saab (a 96) and then it was looked on as something exotic, so most people would have been driving dull middle-aged British cars. HTH

[warren t claim]

3 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

That's a perfectly valid point.   Having re-read it I agree, there does need to be greater explanation regarding what the thing looks like.  Thank you.

'Growing Pains', apparently!  I've never seen it.  Interestingly, Hammer House of Horror came out in 1980 so predates Christine in both novel and film form.  Possessed machinery, however, is bound to be a recurring motif.

There is, just not in this particular extract.  

 

[Missy Charm]

I have come to a point of needing to describe a customised mark one Capri.  Does the following ring true?  There passage is bookended by text not reproduced here, for obvious reasons.  By way of scene setting, the car appears in a magazine article which is being read by one of the characters.  

First the Capri had been named: ‘Stardream’.  It had then gained an RS3100 rear spoiler, a deep steel front airdam and flared wheelarches.  The bodywork at the front had been altered to take Jaguar XJ-S quartz halogen headlights and a plain black radiator grille, to which was affixed a specially made chromium plated quad pointed star.  The rear had been changed too, with hexagonal, jewel-like taillights from a Datsun coupe fitted along with a louvre over the back window.  For brightwork the car retained the ordinary bumpers, which were supplemented by four spoke Appliance wheels and sidepipes with perforated heat-shields.  Power came from a supercharged Ford 351 driving a Jaguar axle by way of a four-speed manual gearbox.  The blower and air-scoop poked through a hole cut in the middle of the bonnet.  Best of all was the paintjob: electric blue metalflake on the body, with plainer Prussian blue on the bonnet and boot-lid.  The boot had an airbrushed mural of a spiral galaxy, done in shades of bluish white; the bonnet had another mural, the Jewel Box star cluster with the large stars painted in shades of emerald, ruby and sapphire.  There was more airbrushing on the sides, from the central swage line downwards.  Monica brought the magazine up to her nose for a closer look.  A gloss black backdrop, star speckled and traversed by little silver spacecraft with fire belching engines.  In the foreground was the name “Stardream”, picked out in futuristic, violet-purple letters.  The paint was thickly lacquered, glass-like.  Inside, the seats were upholstered in purple buttoned dralon and the floor covered in thick blue carpet.  The dashboard was covered in blue dralon and there were enough auxiliary gauges to rival a light aircraft.  Oddly, the unfashionably large two-spoke Capri steering wheel remained in place. 

[Mr Pastry]

What audience is this aimed at?

I think it only rings true if written for custom car nuts.   It is out of context here of course, but your average reader is going to say:  Yes, fine, some kind of custom car, can we get on with the story now? 

I think you could get the picture across as well, if not better, with less detail - but maybe you are being paid by the word! 

Would someone picking up a magazine notice the spoiler and the headlamps, etc. first?  I think the first impression might be the colours, the name of the car, and the overall composition of the picture.  They might identify it as a Capri early on, but would only start picking out the sources of parts after detailed study, and again, who is bothered anyway?  Does the exact specification of the car have any bearing on the narrative?  If not, you can just sketch it in and let the reader's mind do the rest.   

Sorry if that seems to be picking it to pieces, but you did ask. 

 

 

[warch]

Alan Bennett made his name by writing in a realistic style which recognises the idiosyncratic way people talk. If one of your characters is quite spoddy then yes let them go into ludicrous detail about their car. Otherwise it may come across as unnecessary detail.

Roald Dahl does this sort of thing very well check out The Hitch Hiker for a really good layman’s description of vehicles within a short story. His narrative style is brilliant full stop, the Mildenhall Treasure from the same anthology is probably my favourite short story, it’s so engaging and atmospheric, painting a picture with words.

[High Jetter]

Back to the car though, what a shame. An original Mk1 Capri should not be, well, adulterated to say the least.

 

[eddyramrod]

11 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Back to the car though, what a shame. An original Mk1 Capri should not be, well, adulterated to say the least.

 

This is a to be period piece, IIRC.  Back in the 70s and 80s many Capris were given the kind of treatment described.  Ditto Escorts, Cortinas, you name it, especially Fords.  I know, I was there.  Not doing such things myself, but certainly reading about, and associating with, people who did.  Nobody back then imagined these things would rival small houses in terms of price, 40 years later!

 

I am writing a sitcom with three friends, and they have accepted in principle that a classic car might be involved.  However I am the only person who "sees" the car in the scenes we write (tbf it's mostly in the background and is hardly ever seen moving) and who cares about what the actual car might be.  Current contender is a 1975 Sunbeam Rapier, preferably white.  Most readers, and this is a harsh reality for someone like me to admit, will not care about almost all the details of the car.  "A beautifully-painted customised Ford Capri" is quite enough description for most people until a specific detail is needed, eg "Sarah dug her cigarettes from her bag.  Jim spotted her action and reached with his left arm to stop her. 'I don't want you smoking in here,' he said.  'Look at all the fake-fur on the doors and dash; imagine how that could burn.'  Sarah nodded her understanding and put her cigarettes back."

@Missy Charm: good luck!

[New POD]

On 24/12/2021 at 19:06, 3VOM said:

I'll have to wait for a biker to remember when the 125 limit came in. If your script is set early enough Eric would be able to ride up to 250cc and no one would go for a 125cc if they didn't need to.

1983? My sister's year group had lads of 17, who had 250s on L plates, but by 1984, we were limited to 125..

[Richard_FM]

1 hour ago, warch said:

Alan Bennett made his name by writing in a realistic style which recognises the idiosyncratic way people talk. If one of your characters is quite spoddy then yes let them go into ludicrous detail about their car. Otherwise it may come across as unnecessary detail.

Roald Dahl does this sort of thing very well check out The Hitch Hiker for a really good layman’s description of vehicles within a short story. His narrative style is brilliant full stop, the Mildenhall Treasure from the same anthology is probably my favourite short story, it’s so engaging and atmospheric, painting a picture with words.

Yes they are both very good writers.

Most people know Roald Dahl for his quirkier works, but he could write straight prose very well too.  I remember when I was 11 I read most of his autobiographic books Boy & Going Solo back to back one day because they were so engaging.

[High Jetter]

1 hour ago, eddyramrod said:

Current contender is a 1975 Sunbeam Rapier, preferably white.  

Nice, but there was  a metallic bronze, that folllowed through to the Chrysler 180.