project 1968 MG Midget - Bodywork repair and welding

[SiC]

On 20/07/2024 at 23:23, SiC said:

Let's see how long it'll take for me to get around to welding this panel on now!

Err pretty much 6 months later...

Where the hell does time go? Today is 3 years to the dot that I bought this ffs. I honestly should have just punted it on or stripped it for parts, then bought another. It would have been not only obviously quicker but actually cheaper. I'm determined to see this project through though. Also desperate to get my poor ol' Dolomite done and back on the road. Thats nearly 5 years ownership and barely touched in the last 3 years.

The other weekend I got on with a bit more. Currently at the stage that I need to get the backend on.

Rewelded some old dodgy welds. This is a good chance to re-practice and get back into the welding flow. Hence these new welds look shite.

No matter, I have a grinder.

The bit of metal under the left light was missing chunks. So a cut out and replaced half of it job.

Panel lined up to get into place again.

 

There are some alignment issues under the rear light clusters. Brute force and ignorance seems to line everything back up. Going to be fun* getting this clamped into place while I squeeze it all together.

I hate having to deal with these join bits. I could weld this up and make it smooth. However its one of those areas thats distinctively obvious to anyone who knows a Midget. As a rust trap area, these bits often 

 

Thats all the bodywork done so far. I think I'm nearly on the home run once I get the rear end welded on. However I look underneath and realise that I really need to pull some of the drivetrain out and weld up all the shite at the bottom. Whether thats just the rear axle, gearbox or everything including the engine, I haven't decided yet. I mean it really should be the whole thing and then I can put it up on its side and sort this properly.

Its stuff like this makes me realise its not welded properly. I popped this off the other month (probably year actually) and again, shit welds.

Also going to be fun reattaching the bottom of the rear panel to whats left of the floor at the back. I think I'll run a bead along here on whats left.

I've got a few weeks off this Xmas. I'm really hoping I get at least a few solid days to tackle this car.

 

[artdjones]

You're doing well in renovating what amounts to a scrap shell.

[Marina door handles]

Quite an inspiring thread, your hard graft is slowly paying off! 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Saw this video and it reminded me of this thread. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BfDpm7V8Q/

 

[busmansholiday]

22 hours ago, SiC said:

Where the hell does time go? Today is 3 years to the dot that I bought this ffs. I honestly should have just punted it on or stripped it for parts, then bought another. It would have been not only obviously quicker but actually cheaper. I'm determined to see this project through though. Also desperate to get my poor ol' Dolomite done and back on the road. Thats nearly 5 years ownership and barely touched in the last 3 years.

That's nothing. My 73 MGB GT has been sat in the garage a couple feet away from my MIG welder for at least 15 years (and there's not that much to do) whilst I really do need to sort the Roadster out  before that.

[SiC]

I did some more stuff yesterday 

Some alignment issues that required cuts and hammering 

There wasn't much good metal to attach this side to.

That's my excuse anyway for shit looking welds. Grinder will sort them.

I've spent a fair amount of time debating whether to weld these seams up. Factory spot weld it on the inside. However it would be an absolute nightmare trying to do that with repair panels. Not least the outside aftermarket repair panel doesn't have the bent edge to weld to. I put one in on the left side as it was too big but the right was too small and I haven't.

Anyway I decided to weld it up and it'll have a smooth seam. I like to go original but after 3 years, I just want this car on the road and I don't want to faff trying to get this right. Tbh I wonder if I weld deep enough, a light whizz down the seam with a cutting disc might emulate something similar.

Absolute pain in the bum trying to get everything pulled tight though. This is about the best I could get but welds, grind and filler will sort it. 

I'm really hoping to get some time over Xmas to finish this. 

Not a huge amount left on this arse end. Finish welding these bits and then along the bottom of the panel. Then grind+reweld+grind a few times to remove any pinholes and get things as smooth as is possible ready for a skim of filler.

I need to figure a way of getting it on its side so I can sort the underneath out. Apart from rewelding the shit welds, it needs a good clean off of old oil, underseal and shit. 

Any suggestions on how to get it on the side? I don't want to spit it due to time. Tillers are surprisingly expensive (£400+) for what is essentially a bent bit of pipe. Alternative I did think was to raid the garden of old tyres I've been stashing (I told Mrs SiC they'd come in useful one day!) and roll it onto that.

I plan to remove the drivetrain before I do that. Reduce weight so I can lift it and also not get oil absolutely everywhere. I don't imagine it'll take more than an hour or two to pull the engine, transmission and rear axle on this. Most of its removed anyway. Also gives a chance to clean up and paint everything in the engine bay. 

[comfortablynumb]

On 19/12/2024 at 20:39, busmansholiday said:

That's nothing. My 73 MGB GT has been sat in the garage a couple feet away from my MIG welder for at least 15 years (and there's not that much to do) whilst I really do need to sort the Roadster out  before that.

I'll raise you a 1600E that I've now owned for 37 years, has moved house twice, been in storage at a mates house for two years, and I've never actually driven it on the road.

Its swapped garages here twice, and actually been on my 2 post lift once, when I looked it over and went 'Riiiiiight, back in the other garage....' 🤦

I have actually managed to prevent MK2 son from nicking bits off it tho, so I guess that's a positive?

[jonathan_dyane]

Trouble with the old tyres is if you manage to set them on fire; they burn tremendously well/are almost impossible to extinguish when they go up and have a great deal of smoke in them.

[Matty]

4 hours ago, SiC said:

I did some more stuff yesterday 

Some alignment issues that required cuts and hammering 

There wasn't much good metal to attach this side to.

That's my excuse anyway for shit looking welds. Grinder will sort them.

I've spent a fair amount of time debating whether to weld these seams up. Factory spot weld it on the inside. However it would be an absolute nightmare trying to do that with repair panels. Not least the outside aftermarket repair panel doesn't have the bent edge to weld to. I put one in on the left side as it was too big but the right was too small and I haven't.

Anyway I decided to weld it up and it'll have a smooth seam. I like to go original but after 3 years, I just want this car on the road and I don't want to faff trying to get this right. Tbh I wonder if I weld deep enough, a light whizz down the seam with a cutting disc might emulate something similar.

Absolute pain in the bum trying to get everything pulled tight though. This is about the best I could get but welds, grind and filler will sort it. 

I'm really hoping to get some time over Xmas to finish this. 

Not a huge amount left on this arse end. Finish welding these bits and then along the bottom of the panel. Then grind+reweld+grind a few times to remove any pinholes and get things as smooth as is possible ready for a skim of filler.

I need to figure a way of getting it on its side so I can sort the underneath out. Apart from rewelding the shit welds, it needs a good clean off of old oil, underseal and shit. 

Any suggestions on how to get it on the side? I don't want to spit it due to time. Tillers are surprisingly expensive (£400+) for what is essentially a bent bit of pipe. Alternative I did think was to raid the garden of old tyres I've been stashing (I told Mrs SiC they'd come in useful one day!) and roll it onto that.

I plan to remove the drivetrain before I do that. Reduce weight so I can lift it and also not get oil absolutely everywhere. I don't imagine it'll take more than an hour or two to pull the engine, transmission and rear axle on this. Most of its removed anyway. Also gives a chance to clean up and paint everything in the engine bay. 

Pull the engine and box, put some cardboard and dust sheets down and get the neighbours round to roll it. Car weighs nowt anyway so it'll be no bother.

[comfortablynumb]

When we flipped a 105E Anglia on its side for welding, we used a few tyres and an old mattress. 

The car survived well, main problem was that the mattress kept catching fire, not an issue if you have a good fire watcher.

We ended up dampening it down before starting work each time 

Edit- it was basically a bare shell, no glass, interior or running gear, but it was easy to put over

Edited December 22, 2024 by comfortablynumb
Additional

[camryv6]

12 minutes ago, comfortablynumb said:

When we flipped a 105E Anglia on its side for welding, we used a few tyres and an old mattress. 

The car survived well, main problem was that the mattress kept catching fire, not an issue if you have a good fire watcher.

We ended up dampening it down before starting work each time 

Edit- it was basically a bare shell, no glass, interior or running gear, but it was easy to put over

I wonder if modern mattresses are fire resistant ?

[Surface Rust]

With no screen, my main concern would be stopping it becoming fully inverted!

[comfortablynumb]

22 minutes ago, camryv6 said:

I wonder if modern mattresses are fire resistant ?

Should be, but most things will ignite if you're dropping molten metal on them!

[comfortablynumb]

21 minutes ago, Surface Rust said:

With no screen, my main concern would be stopping it becoming fully inverted!

Easy enough to build a frame, or buttress arrangement to stop it going right over 

[High Jetter]

4 hours ago, comfortablynumb said:

a 1600E that I've now owned for 37 years, has moved house twice, been in storage at a mates house for two years, and I've never actually driven it on the road.

Pics please

[purplebargeken]

Was going to suggest mattress…

[comfortablynumb]

10 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Pics please

On a rare excursion outside earlier this year.

Note barn-find level of dirt

Bonus dogs

Sorry @SiC for thread hijack😁

 

[jonathan_dyane]

If you can get a discarded mattress which is sufficiently saturated in urine it will have a level of fire retardant properties 

[auntiemaryscanary]

25 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

If you can get a discarded mattress which is sufficiently saturated in urine it will have a level of fire retardant properties 

Vomit emoji please AS admins.

[jim89]

15 hours ago, comfortablynumb said:

Easy enough to build a frame, or buttress arrangement to stop it going right over 

Or "a wall" with strategically placed upholstery / mattress/ small children etc

[SiC]

According to this, the earlier Frogeye tub is about 150kg. Later cars are a bit bigger and have rear wings attached to the tub. But I can't imagine it'll be more than 200kg. Should be easy enough to move around with two people.

They built a stand out of 2x4. I'm tempted to do similar. Easy material to get hold of and work with. 

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mg-midget-forum.3/1959-sprite-shell-weight.4031705/

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Either tyres or a mattress should be ok with a fire blanket or two over them.

[2flags]

That wooden frame looks fairly easy to construct, and I would imagine, would cost a lot less that £400! [After the storms we've had there must be loads of old sheds, fence posts ect floating, or lying around.] Just saying like. 😁

[SiC]

Progressed on with the arse end last night. Cut out this support beam as it's no longer needed.

Aligned and welded up the right hand side under the lights. Decided I'm not going to keep the traditional panel join here. I'd love to but I'm not a pro, it's been 3yrs to get to this point and I desperately want to drive it. So short cuts like this that don't take away the structural integrity, I'm going to now take. It's not like there isn't many immaculate and 100% correct examples of these about.

Welded up the floor to rear panel. Not my best work but a horrible angle to be welding, smoke fumes build up underneath, thin slightly crusty metal making it harder and this won't be seen anyway. I will hit it with a grinder and seam sealer to at least tidy it up a bit though.

Need to figure how to close these holes up. The panels that should all fit together, don't. Mostly down to the fact I bent things out of the way and got a bit too carried away. Just now access isn't great to bend them back. I'll wack with a screwdriver and hammer as best as I can, but I may need to weld in a small infill piece to close it all off. Again, it won't be visible so just needs to be functional.

[Matty]

Drill them, put bolts washers and nuts through them and jack them together. Bowing some larger od repair washers in the vice should mean they jack together in a decent shape. Holes can be welded up cos you're welding anyway. M6 will easily do as its all very thin.

[Mally]

15 minutes ago, Matty said:

Drill them, put bolts washers and nuts through them and jack them together. Bowing some larger od repair washers in the vice should mean they jack together in a decent shape. Holes can be welded up cos you're welding anyway. M6 will easily do as its all very thin.

I know you work at the heavy end, but an M6  bolt will hold a lot more weight than you may think.

Probably lift the whole back end up on it, just don't stand underneath.

[Matty]

29 minutes ago, Mally said:

I know you work at the heavy end, but an M6  bolt will hold a lot more weight than you may think.

Probably lift the whole back end up on it, just don't stand underneath.

Nah i ment to draw the panel gaps together on the back quarters Pete. Much gentler than trying to hammer them together and I couldn't see an effective way of clamping them due to all the radiuses. Drill straight through the two flanges then use a small nut and bolt and some strategic washers to pull them together tack then takes the bolt out. Little bit of dressing along the seam with a tap here and there then it should be good to weld.

[SiC]

What colour is this? I quite like it and I think this might be what going on mine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135473567444

 

[Mally]

6 minutes ago, SiC said:

What colour is this? I quite like it and I think this might be what going on mine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135473567444

 

Are you spraying yourself?

A decent respray will cost more than the current price of the ebay one.

[SiC]

Just now, Mally said:

Are you spraying yourself?

A decent respray will cost more than the current price of the ebay one.

I'm way over my head in panel cost already on this. It's going to have to be a DIY respray.