P-reg Ford Ka's

[egg]

Like K-reg Mondeos and S reg Foci, and R reg Mk4 Astra's, I'm starting to get a little bit itchy for P reg Ford KA's. Howmanyleft says there are low numbers of early cars left now (top line is taxed, bottom SORN'd)

Wiki says they were launched in September 1996.  Of those 9 1996 models, 6 appear to be base models, and the rest KA2's.

So, anyone got the launch spec brochure they'd like to upload please? Or anyone know of early models being cared for?

[beko1987]

I remember the launch cars! The Ford garage in Peterborough (up near pc world) had them on plinths when they were brand new! Would have been P or R's iirc. 

Still look nice now tbh but I don't want to own one... 

[Dobloseven]

Yes, know what you mean, quite fancy an early basic one, though I don't think the later ones changed that much. To me, there's a purity of design thats kind of ageless. Along with basic mechanicals. Perhaps, one day..... 

[D.E]

This is how I like them. Bright colour, fancy wheels. They drive well and Fords of the New Edge era look good.

Not sure I'd want one though, I have seen so many with steering rack issues, loud rattling engines, and then of course there's the rust. Oh god, all the rust...

[artdjones]

Yes, last month I had a 2008 model up on a lift with holes in the chassis. And this was in Ireland, where the roads aren't salted much.

[maxxo]

the way they rot is absolutely horrific

the 2009 onwards model (fiat based if i recall) seems to fare much better

i do like the originals in wacky colours

a teacher at my primary school had a P reg one, yellow if i recall

obviously long dead

[sutty2006]

8 hours ago, maxxo said:

the way they rot is absolutely horrific

the 2009 onwards model (fiat based if i recall) seems to fare much better

 

A guy I used to work with had a 2009/10 KA …… back axle rusted and almost fell off. 
 

 

I don’t think they learned much from the original! 
 

my apprentices 2008 first gen KA got scrapped, couldn’t even give it away. The only guy that wanted it was the scrap man! 

[Rod/b]

A mate of mine had an early one when it was a few years old. It looked smart enough but i always remember the engine sounding like it belonged in something a lot older. Which i suppose, in a way, it did.

[St.Jude]

We nearly bought one for my sister as a first car.

It's genuinely the only car I've been in that I swear I could kick a hole through the floor of. They just felt flimsy. 

[GeordieInExile]

The SportKa I had for an all too brief period was absolutely shot but even then it was an utter hoot to drive. Sublime gearchange and comedy acceleration (with a hilariously aggressive clutch bite). Would like a go in a Billy basic 1.3 Endura to see how they compare. Did the bASe ones come sans power steering as well?

[adw1977]

This one was photographed by "pablo deshaul" in 2014 and apparently still exists, albeit SORN.

Flickr link

[Leyland Worldmaster]

1 minute ago, GeordieInExile said:

The SportKa I had for an all too brief period was absolutely shot but even then it was an utter hoot to drive. Sublime gearchange and comedy acceleration (with a hilariously aggressive clutch bite). Would like a go in a Billy basic 1.3 Endura to see how they compare. Did the bASe ones come sans power steering as well?

From memory, yes. My first car was a '98 Ka 3. A bASe spec' P Reg' was a Courtesy Car (Ka?) whilst mine had it's first service and it had no Power Steering. It had an illuminated cigarette lighter socket thingy and a couple of other bits that mine didn't have... 

[SRi05]

It still amazes me that these were sold up to 2008 and they did nothing about the rust problems during the production run. They were absolute rot boxes 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

6 minutes ago, SRi05 said:

It still amazes me that these were sold up to 2008 and they did nothing about the rust problems during the production run. They were absolute rot boxes 

Mine was bought new and already had signs of impending Doom around the tailgate hinges where they meet the bodywork. Also, the panel fit was shite. Was a hoot to drive, but after nine months, I chopped it in for a much more substantial VW Lupo... 🤓

[egg]

13 hours ago, beko1987 said:

Still look nice now tbh but I don't want to own one... 

I think that's where I am, not sure what journeys I'd actually need a Ka for.  I think it would have to be garaged because of the rust issues already mentioned. Classic Ford approach isn't it? Build it down to a price but make it good to drive and market it well.

I like the old pushrod engine, just because you can trace it's origins all the way back, a bit like Ford's equivalent of the A-series.

But would it be better to own than a Cinquecento Sporting? Probably not.

[GeordieInExile]

10 minutes ago, SRi05 said:

It still amazes me that these were sold up to 2008 and they did nothing about the rust problems during the production run. They were absolute rot boxes 

Did they move production to Brazil at some point during the run or have I got that ass backwards..?

[Talbot]

As cheap and cheerful as these were, they truly were absolute shit.   An ex-gf had one in that burgundy they all seemed to be in.  It was a posh KA3, which meant CL, EW, AC, and various other bits and pieces.  Still sounded like an anglia, rotted like nothing I've seen before, and the AC sapped about 15% of the engine power.  On one occasion while trying to climb a steep hill, I announced "engage turbo power" and very subtly turned the AC off.  She honestly thought I had summoned the engine gods and managed to find another 10hp from somewhere.  It also used to suffer from CEF, meaning it wouldn't lock, wouldn't unlock, windows would stop working, etc.etc.  Mainly issues with door electrics.. I suspect the loom routing (or cable quality) was just crap, meaning all the door looms just broke up.

Then there was the snapped-off spark-plugs incident.  about 5lbf force and all 4 snapped off.   Had to get the head off and take it round to a local reconditioners to get it sorted.  What a heap.

A friend also had one that was about 6 years old at the time, and it was hit from behind, smacking the rear bumper off.  There was galloping rot in all the rear panelwork behind the bumper.. it probably had about 2 years left before it would have been scrap anyway, so the smack probably did them a favour.

Disposable shit like this should not be legal.  There really should be a minimum standard for vehicle construction, meaning they actually last.  I know that would mean that there would be no cheap new cars, but quite frankly, so what?  If you want a cheap car, buy a second-hand one.

[adw1977]

coconv on Flickr seems to have scanned a 1996 brochure, but then not put it in it's own album, so it's a nightmare to find all the pages.  Here's the colour chart.

Flickr link

[D.E]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

I think it would have to be garaged because of the rust issues already mentioned.

That would probably be the most sensible approach to early Ka ownership I think. Try find one that didn't spend its life outside and keep it garaged.  They seem to have the  average lifespan and rot of cars from the 70s so they should be treated the same, if you want them to last. 

[Dan302]

We bought one for my partner as we needed a very cheap car that day and nothing else was available. It had plate welded onto plate and leaked water into the boot so stunk however it always started and did what we needed for a few month until she could afford something better (in the shape of a 2005 Panda, a much much better car)

[egg]

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

Disposable shit like this should not be legal. 

Don't give me reasons to want one, lol!

[Longbridge Apologist]

Yes I remember mini mag comparing it new to the current on sale original Rover Mini. 
I preferred the KA!

[LoftyvRS]

I also snapped every spark plug off in the head on one of these. Used a BFO hammer and easy outs to get the remains out of the head, all the rust and debris got chewed up and spat down the exhaust. Ran ok tbh after that. 

I remember one being MOT'd with the entire sills made up of expanding foam, carboard, Isopon and virgins tears. The sills pretty much fell off complete and were placed in the boot for the owner when he collected it.

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

As cheap and cheerful as these were, they truly were absolute shit.   An ex-gf had one in that burgundy they all seemed to be in.  It was a posh KA3, which meant CL, EW, AC, and various other bits and pieces.  Still sounded like an anglia, rotted like nothing I've seen before, and the AC sapped about 15% of the engine power.  On one occasion while trying to climb a steep hill, I announced "engage turbo power" and very subtly turned the AC off.  She honestly thought I had summoned the engine gods and managed to find another 10hp from somewhere.  It also used to suffer from CEF, meaning it wouldn't lock, wouldn't unlock, windows would stop working, etc.etc.  Mainly issues with door electrics.. I suspect the loom routing (or cable quality) was just crap, meaning all the door looms just broke up.

Then there was the snapped-off spark-plugs incident.  about 5lbf force and all 4 snapped off.   Had to get the head off and take it round to a local reconditioners to get it sorted.  What a heap.

A friend also had one that was about 6 years old at the time, and it was hit from behind, smacking the rear bumper off.  There was galloping rot in all the rear panelwork behind the bumper.. it probably had about 2 years left before it would have been scrap anyway, so the smack probably did them a favour.

Disposable shit like this should not be legal.  There really should be a minimum standard for vehicle construction, meaning they actually last.  I know that would mean that there would be no cheap new cars, but quite frankly, so what?  If you want a cheap car, buy a second-hand one.

They were only something cheap like £7k new, the alternatives for the money weren’t much better. I mean they lasted the seven years design life, Ford or any of the others couldn’t give a shit if it’s going to be a bugger to weld up in 10 years time. 

[Talbot]

My point is the design life should be 20 years, and they should cost more.  The additional work needed to make a car last 20 years rather than 7 years is not 3x the work, so by making a car that only has a 7 year design life is astonishingly wasteful.

As I said above, if that means there are no cheap cars for sale new, that's no bad thing.

[sierraman]

2 minutes ago, Talbot said:

My point is the design life should be 20 years, and they should cost more.  The additional work needed to make a car last 20 years rather than 7 years is not 3x the work, so by making a car that only has a 7 year design life is astonishingly wasteful.

As I said above, if that means there are no cheap cars for sale new, that's no bad thing.

I’m not disputing it’s wasteful but if you make a product, you want to make it reliable enough up to just beyond the warranty then a design life for the 10 year mark. If you designed it to last 20 years you’d be out of business before long - you want people to keep needing to buy a new one every 7-10 years to keep the flow of new sales going. 

[Talbot]

People who buy a new car will still buy a new car every few years, as that's what they want to do.  The point is that a new car should cost a lot more than it does, and last a lot longer.

What you're describing is part of the shit that is capitalism, which is responsible for a lot of the mess this planet is currently in.

[horriblemercedes]

Working on a friend's Ford Ka was one of the things that put me off Fords. I just couldn't believe how poorly built it was. It was only about five years old and the rust was really getting into its stride.

 

I've still never owned a Ford. I'm open to it but I think that that experience has had some subconscious effect on me. I was put off Mazdas by the MX-5 I owned that was a rotbox and just generally problematic

[sierraman]

14 minutes ago, Talbot said:

People who buy a new car will still buy a new car every few years, as that's what they want to do.  The point is that a new car should cost a lot more than it does, and last a log longer.

What you're describing is part of the shit that is capitalism, which is responsible for a lot of the mess this planet is currently in.

It should but they are running a huge turnover business with an increasingly narrow margin. They couldn’t give a shite about someone welding up old bangers. This is part of the reason an outfit in Sheffield went bust, Record Tools, many of their vices are still going, 60 years later, you bought one and it never needed replacing. So nobody did. I get that people will always want to buy a new car but as a producer your concern is for the initial buyer of your product not some bloke 15 years down the line that buys it. 

[Longbridge Apologist]

When I drove my then girl friends boggo standard one I loved it. Just rag the old Kent block and it had the now classic Ford driving fun after Parry Jones.

Interior was interesting as well. Its just my sort of car actually - cheap but interesting.