The "They forgot to stop making them" thread

[Norbert]

In the Late Registration Madness thread, @willswitchengage wrote, regarding a 2009 Pug 206:

“Also - one of few cars that managed to outlast its successor. They're still produced today in Iran. I think the Volvo 240 is another example that was manufactured after its successor (I'd argue the 740) was withdrawn from production, and the original Mini outlasted the Metro/100. Am sure there's a new thread opportunity emerging here…” 

Good idea, so I thought I’d kick it off. 

If a company has a bona-fide* genuine* automotive legend* in its portfolio, then this quite often comes into play. It’s mentioned elsewhere in the LRM thread that the Renault 4 was still available in France alongside the early Clio, meaning it outlasted both iterations of R5. The original Beetle lasted until 2003, meaning that it outlasted not just the closest thing it had to a direct replacement in the Mk1 Golf, but also the Mk2 and Mk3. This is actually a multi-layered example as I’m sure that continued production in South Africa meant that the Mk1 Golf itself managed to outlast the Mk2, or at least come very close to it. 

There is also the question of what model should be considered the intended replacement for a long-runner. In the case of the 200-series Volvo it’s pretty clear cut, and ARG themselves stated that the Metro was intended to take over from the Mini, but elsewhere things get a little muddy. While it is the case that the 2CV outlasted the Ami, Dyane, LN/LNA and Visa, were any of these cars intended to replace the original? Those who know their Citroens better than I could perhaps enlighten me. 

Different bodystyles often don’t change over at the same time when a model is replaced, which leads to some more examples. The HA Viva carried on until 1983 in van form, meaning it outlasted the HB and HC Vivas, the Chevette/Chevanne and came close to beating the Mk1 Astra! The Golf Cabriolet also stars here, The Mk1 ragtop being for sale along the Mk3 hatch for a very short while. The Mini Van and Pickup stayed Mk1 until 1983, outlasting the Mk2 Mini by nearly fifteen years. 

A model having a second life abroad is also a good source of this, the 206’s subsequent lives in China (as the local-market Citroen C1) and Iran being good examples. It’s well-known (on here at least) that the Avenger lasted until the early 1990s in Latin America, spending the final years of sales badged as a VW, but this means that it outlasted its successor, whether that is considered as the Horizon or 305.

Perhaps a longer-running example of the above is the Series 3 Morris Oxford, which lasted until 2014 as the Hindustan Ambassador, meaning that it outlasted not just any number of subsequent “BMC to MG Rover” family cars, but also the company itself. 

If we are to open the question to cars that were sold “officially” alongside their successors (as opposed to their being just a few left in showrooms), there are even more examples - Mk3 Fiesta “Classic”, Renault 5 and Clio “Campus” in many generations, Ford Escort, 206 as mentioned above… 

Another sub-section of this could concern vehicles that, although production stopped when the successor started, actually lasted longer in use than the replacement - there are a few examples of this with buses, the RT and RM seeing off more than one intended replacement over the years. 

I’ve probably not even scratched the surface of this, so… what further examples are there of vehicles that they seemed to have forgotten to stop making?

[colnerov]

 

 Hi, Another Rootes offering is the Arrow series Hillman Minx from 1967 to 2005 where it had morphed into the Paykan in Iran.

 Colin

[MorrisItalSLX]

The 4th generation Ford Falcon Ute & Panel Van would be a real contender here as that generation of Falcon was launched in 1979 in Saloon, Station Wagon, Ute and Panel Van body styles. Then in 1988 the 5th generation Saloon and Station Wagon was released but the Ute and Panel Van continued on to 1999, a year into 6th generation Saloon and Station Wagon production that began in 1998.

Ford of Australia tried to disguise this by facelifting the Ute and Panel Van to look like the current generation Falcons, but this fooled no one as it was still quite clearly a 1970s design with a 1990s face grafted on.

[Norbert]

I'm impressed at how reasonable that 90s-ified 4th Gen Ute looks - OK it's not fooling anyone as you said, but it could look a lot worse - just a bit of awkwardness around the scuttle / a-post area.

(as an aside, wasn't there a facelift of the original front too, sort of "there used to be a full height grill here but now there isn't, honest" kind of affair?)

[Mr Laurence]

The Austin maestro was in production in CKD form until 2001, and being made in China until 2007. In fact, there may still be cars that share the platform in production today.

that means it outlasted both generations of Rover 200, and for about 2 years, The Maestro and the 25 were sold alongside each other.

similarly, but less impressively, if you count the Rover 45 as the same car as a 5th(?) gen Civic, then production very nearly lasted until the launch of the spaceship Civics in 2005

[LightBulbFun]

surprised no ones mentioned the Lada Riva and Lada Niva  (and the UAZ 452)

[Madman Of The People]

Porsche 911 outlived the car intended to replace it, the Porsche 928.

 

[bunglebus]

Another air cooled VW - the bay window type 2 got replaced in 1979 by the T3 "wedge" but carried on in South America until 2013 (although using water cooled Polo engines towards the end), T3 production stopped in Europe in 1992, but South Africa hung onto them until 2002. Even the MK1 Golf outlived the European ones (1974-1983) in SA, as the Citi Golf until 2009

[Zelandeth]

As LBF has said, Lada Riva made it up to 2015, and the Niva is still in production today... There's actually one we see around here occasionally on a 56 plate.

[Spiny Norman]

You've been able to buy a Morgan plus 4 from the same factory in the Malvern hills since the end of the bronze age.

 

[Sealtainn]

surprised no ones mentioned the Lada Riva and Lada Niva  (and the UAZ 452)

You can still order a brand new Niva

https://www.lada.bg/bg/cars/4x4/urban/about.php


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[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, Sealtainn said:

You can still order a brand new Niva

https://www.lada.bg/bg/cars/4x4/urban/about.php


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exactly thats why I mentioned it, and the UAZ452 as well  

 

while on the subject

FX4 Taxi is also another one worth mentioning I think?  

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/austin/fx4/ado6-development-story/

[Madman Of The People]

In Canada, you could still buy a new Mk IV VW Golf and Jetta even though the new Mk V was already on sale.

The City Golf and City Jetta continued in Canada (with slight styling tweeks) throughout the newer Mk V production run.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Laurence]

7 minutes ago, Sealtainn said:

You can still order a brand new Niva

https://www.lada.bg/bg/cars/4x4/urban/about.php


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£9300! That’s about the same as a base spec Kia Picanto. If only there was a market for something like that in the UK

I’ve never seen those Canadian VW’s before. They look so strange

[timolloyd]

The Triumph 1300 was supposed to replace the Herald when it was launched in 1965. The Herald outlived it by a year, surviving until 1971.

I guess the overlap between Morris Minor and 1100 is something similar?

[Mr Pastry]

Not sure of the dates but the BMC Farina Oxford/Cambridge went on until the early 1970s alongside the Issigonis cars which should have replaced it, as did the 1/2 ton van based on the pre Farina shape.  Then there's the MGB of course. 

[Mr Laurence]

The S13 Nissan 180SX was made and sold in Japan until early 1999, whereas the S14 Silvia, which was supposed to replace it only lasted until 1998

[Ghosty]

2 minutes ago, Mr Laurence said:

The S13 Nissan 180SX was made and sold in Japan until early 1999, whereas the S14 Silvia, which was supposed to replace it only lasted until 1998

Ah, but the S14 Silvia replaced the S13 Silvia. 
The 180SX was a different car on the S13 chassis known as RPS13. 

[Mr Laurence]

1 minute ago, Ghosty said:

Ah, but the S14 Silvia replaced the S13 Silvia. 
The 180SX was a different car on the S13 chassis known as RPS13. 

True, but the Silvia and 180sx shared a platform and were ultimately the same car. I believe that Nissan had intended for the S14 Silvia to replace both. In Europe and America, where the 180 was sold as either the 200SX or the 240SX, it was replaced by the S14. Why it was kept in production for Japan I really don’t know, as the Silvia was always the more popular of the two

[RayMK]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

surprised no ones mentioned the Lada Riva and Lada Niva  (and the UAZ 452)

Not forgetting the fact that the basis of the Lada Riva was the Fiat 124 which was replaced in its home country by the Fiat 131 in 1974.  A similar story evolved with the Fiat 125 being replaced by the Fiat 132 in 1972 while the 125 morphed elsewhere into the Polski Fiat 125, FSO 125 etc.   

 

[catsinthewelder]

Peugeot 405's are still being made in Iran Outliving the 406 (2004 in Europe, 2008 in Egypt) and the 407 (2011) although the others have been made in Iran but I don't know the dates.

The LDV Pilot outlasted the LDV Cub by a couple of years.  A version of the Sherpa was also made by BMC in Turkey but I can't find when it went out of production.

[TataBobu]

How about Renault 12? In Dacia form it was produced until 2004 (2006 for the pick-up version), outliving the direct replacement (R18), the nephew (R21) and the 21's replacement: first generation Laguna.

[Mr Pastry]

The upright Ford Popular, which began as the Y type in 1931 and was restyled in the mid 1930s, but was in production basically unchanged until 1960.

[Norbert]

37 minutes ago, RayMK said:

Not forgetting the fact that the basis of the Lada Riva was the Fiat 124 which was replaced in its home country by the Fiat 131 in 1974.  A similar story evolved with the Fiat 125 being replaced by the Fiat 132 in 1972 while the 125 morphed elsewhere into the Polski Fiat 125, FSO 125 etc.   

 

Some more Fiat examples:

The 500 was on sale alongside the 126 (as the 500R) towards the end of production. 

In turn, the 126 lasted until 2000 in Poland,  outliving the Cinquecento.

The Uno carried on in Latin America as the Nissan Uno but I can't remember offhand whether it outlived the Mk1 Punto.

[martc]

4 hours ago, colnerov said:

 

 Hi, Another Rootes offering is the Arrow series Hillman Minx from 1967 to 2005 where it had morphed into the Paykan in Iran.

 Colin

The Paykan Arrow not only outlasted it's immediate successor (the Alpine); but also whole corporations - Rootes, Chrysler Europe and Talbot.

 

[dozeydustman]

Peugeot 404 was continued to be produce until 1991 in some African states; the 504 was still produced in France as a pickup until 1995-6, and 2006 in Nigeria as a saloon, both variants outliving the 505 by some time.

[bunglebus]

The Niva was being imported into the UK by a chap called Mark Key, but the website is dead now

[LightBulbFun]

On 25/09/2020 at 14:33, Norbert said:

Another sub-section of this could concern vehicles that, although production stopped when the successor started, actually lasted longer in use than the replacement - there are a few examples of this with buses, the RT and RM seeing off more than one intended replacement over the years. 

I might get shouted at for this, but one on this sub section I wanted to mention, the Stanley Argson Model 44 electric invalid carriage 

production ended in 1955, but a surprising number of them remained in service into the 1980s some into 1990s and even 1 possibly right until the end of the IVS scheme in 2003!

several invalid vehicles where introduced to replace it, like the AC Model 64 and the Tippen Delta Model 69E, and although a few of those also survived similarly until the end

it is impressive just how many users clung onto their Argsons for as long as they could especially so as that when these machines where introduced, they where only projected to have 7 year life spans, I know of no other 1950's invalid carriage that survived for so long in such great numbers

its worth nothing that I can find about 45 Stanley Argsons on the DVLA computer still, (and to show up on the DVLA computer a vehicle has to survive until about 1981 at the earliest) but I cant find a single other 1950s Ministry machine of any other type

\

[NorfolkNWeigh]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Not sure of the dates but the BMC Farina Oxford/Cambridge went on until the early 1970s alongside the Issigonis cars which should have replaced it, as did the 1/2 ton van based on the pre Farina shape.  Then there's the MGB of course. 

In 1970 you could buy a Farina Morris Oxford and indeed a Minor 1000 from the same company that would also sell you a Range Rover or Triumph Stag or an XJ6. But their second biggest seller had been in production since 1959, I bet nobody in 1970 thought they’d still be throwing them together in 2000.

[Scruffy Bodger]

37 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

Peugeot 405's are still being made in Iran Outliving the 406 (2004 in Europe, 2008 in Egypt) and the 407 (2011) although the others have been made in Iran but I don't know the dates.

Not any more! 

Over three decades and going strong, the Peugeot 405 is now being manufactured in Azerbaijan

https://www.caradvice.com.au/873954/old-peugeots-never-die-they-just-get-made-in-azerbaijan-peugeot-405-still-in-production/

Now called a 406 but still in production.