welding project Juular's Scandi Noir. Volvo C70, 240 &122. Bad vibrations.

[Supernaut]

That's two separate people I know who went to Errol this weekend without mentioning it beforehand. Cheers!

Anyway, my Powerflow drone box was posted away to a buyer somewhere in Englandshire weeks ago. I've been enjoying the bog standard rear silencer sourced from Poland since September.

[juular]

48 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

That's two separate people I know who went to Errol this weekend without mentioning it beforehand. Cheers!

There was a thread, which is where we found out. 

 

[Saabnut]

Indeed @Supernaut I even put it in its own thread so it would not get lost! I attend most Errol classic  auctions with the Tayside club.

[Supernaut]

Well, balls.

Perhaps I should try looking harder!

[Sunny Jim]

Fair play for your tenacity getting the timing chain on the Trafic done 👍 

A view like the one where you'd just removed the front end gives me the fear - I wouldn't know where to start on a modern engine like that.

Good to hear that you've got the Amazon back to a place where you're enjoying it too. 

[juular]

A small job with hopefully a large improvement.

The silicone gasket completely sorted the perpetual valve cover oil leak on the Amazon, but I was still getting the occasional whiff of oil vapour. I figured the reason for this was probably the crankcase breather 'system', which on this car involves nothing but lots of fresh air. 

On the side of the block there's a flame trap and a pipe going out and under the car.  But the intake for the breather is actually the oil filler cap which has an internal filter and is open to the atmosphere. 

I'm thinking that when I am flat out / high rpm this breather isn't handling the crankcase gases adequately and some is being burped back up into the engine bay and thus into the cabin via the scuttle.

Here's the disassembled cap.

 

 My plan here is to upgrade this to the later filler cap that takes air from the pancake filter on the front carb.

Firstly, a clean.

Then welding on a bit of tube.

Then sealing up the intake on the cap, which in this case is the underside of the petals.  I'm using foil tape as a proof of concept, I'll bung it up with sealant at a later date if this all works.

Finally, a bit of hose between the cap and the filter.

So far this seems to have improved the bad smells. I still get an occasional whiff when I come to a stop, but I think that might just be the side breather pipe gases being blown around.

At some point I might replace the side breather pipe with a line to the intake manifold and a one way valve, creating an actual PCV style setup. Then I can apply for my green number plate.

[Westbay]

1 hour ago, juular said:

A small job with hopefully a large improvement.

The silicone gasket completely sorted the perpetual valve cover oil leak on the Amazon, but I was still getting the occasional whiff of oil vapour. I figured the reason for this was probably the crankcase breather 'system', which on this car involves nothing but lots of fresh air. 

On the side of the block there's a flame trap and a pipe going out and under the car.  But the intake for the breather is actually the oil filler cap which has an internal filter and is open to the atmosphere. 

I'm thinking that when I am flat out / high rpm this breather isn't handling the crankcase gases adequately and some is being burped back up into the engine bay and thus into the cabin via the scuttle.

Here's the disassembled cap.

 

 My plan here is to upgrade this to the later filler cap that takes air from the pancake filter on the front carb.

Firstly, a clean.

Then welding on a bit of tube.

Then sealing up the intake on the cap, which in this case is the underside of the petals.  I'm using foil tape as a proof of concept, I'll bung it up with sealant at a later date if this all works.

Finally, a bit of hose between the cap and the filter.

So far this seems to have improved the bad smells. I still get an occasional whiff when I come to a stop, but I think that might just be the side breather pipe gases being blown around.

At some point I might replace the side breather pipe with a line to the intake manifold and a one way valve, creating an actual PCV style setup. Then I can apply for my green number plate.

Does it need some sort of 'catch can' between the rocker box and the air filter? will it be pumping 'neat' oil vapour to the filter when hot ?

Just a thought ...

[juular]

15 minutes ago, Westbay said:

Does it need some sort of 'catch can' between the rocker box and the air filter? will it be pumping 'neat' oil vapour to the filter when hot ?

Just a thought ...

I've retained the mesh / wool filter material inside the cap, which is the same stuff as you'd find inside a catch can.  

As designed, the flow of gas is meant to go inwards to the filler cap only, so it shouldn't be a source of constant oil vapour, just the occasional burp. The exit pipe on the block is angled to the road in a way that it creates a venturi that pulls gases through when moving.

Here is the updated B18 system which I was aiming for, although I haven't connected it to vacuum (#3 below). That part is handled by the venturi.

 

[sdkrc]

6 minutes ago, juular said:

 

That looks remarkably like the plans for the inter-dimensional spaceship that were beamed down from space in the movie 'Signal' starring Jodie Foster. 

[Westbay]

Ah, thanks for that , so once '3' is connected should work as you expect. 👍

[juular]

15 minutes ago, Westbay said:

Ah, thanks for that , so once '3' is connected should work as you expect. 👍

Should still work as the side pipe is providing a pull via the venturi, just not as effective when stationary where #3 would be pulling a strong vacuum through the system.

That's the next step once I get hold of the right threaded fitting for the manifold, and the right side pipe with a vacuum takeoff.

[Lacquer Peel]

4 hours ago, sdkrc said:

That looks remarkably like the plans for the inter-dimensional spaceship that were beamed down from space in the movie 'Signal' starring Jodie Foster. 

Contact, 1997, 150 mins. 

[juular]

Fleet news.

C70

Nothing to report really.  Drinks large amounts of fuel and turns it into really nice noises that make me happy.

240

Continues to be a super-compact family saloon. Reliably melts all of its fuses on a weekly basis.

Amazon

Some actual mileage has been put on the Amazon in the past fortnight.  As well as generally using it to bimble around in, it has managed Twixfest, which was around a 350 mile round trip.

Thanks to @gm for this video of the Amazon going for a bath.

Once again Twixfest was a great way to spend a Sunday, which must have been extremely confusing to most bystanders and normal traffic, what with a long procession of absolutely random old cars being led by a hearse with a skeleton and a dog in the back, and a rubber duck on the front.

Unfortunately I was still having some usability problems with the Amazon in that the noise and smell levels were making themselves known on such a long day out.

This time the smell problem wasn't oil vapour, but fuel.  On getting home I noticed that the float bowls were a little bit damp. 

It was hard to tell whether this was leaking from the overflow or the pipe, but nevertheless I took the floats off and gave the valves a good clean out. 

Then replaced the pipes.

That leak disappeared, but I could still smell fuel. A lot of poking and prodding occurred at this point. I considered trying to bin off the air filters and replace them with a home-made airbox to try and stop the fuel blowback smell you sometimes get with pancakes. I also considered returning to the leaner ZH needles. 

None of that was necessary though as I finally found the problem. It's not obvious, but the sides of the rear float bowl are covered in residue and staining.

Float bowl gaskets are one of those things that nobody bothers with as they rarely leak, but in this case they must be letting a bit spill out on hard cornering or braking.

Simple and cheap enough to fix.

Now there's not a single whiff of fuel or oil in the cabin which is a huge improvement on the migraine front. Big win.

Next minor emergency was the alternator bracket snapping.  To be fair I did a half arsed job of welding together two alternator brackets, so they were already pushed beyond their original design limit.  I decided it would be best to weld it back together again and reinforce it with a bit of angle iron to prevent any kind of flexing.

Of course I made this as neat as humanly possible.

Frustratingly despite thinking I'd fixed the exhaust drone, the cabin is still really boomy at 60-70mph which is of course the speed you spend most time at. 

I figured it wouldn't hurt to make an effort to try and soundproof the bonnet since it's the biggest, ringiest panel on the car. I also needed to fix the nearside corner as it was starting to break away from the hinge bolt point.

Sad bonnet.

Chop chop chop chop.

Bit of tin bashing.

Eeeh. Close enough.

Now onto the soundproofing.

Some Bostik Flashband applied with a heat gun.

Then some fireproof self adhesive bonnet liner.

Here's the ringing sound as standard.

And here's with the insulation.

 

Back on the car, the difference is quite amazing.  Big reduction in road noise and general engine roar, although you can still hear the induction rortiness of the twin pancake filters.  The bonnet closes with a quiet thud rather than a clang that you can hear streets away.

However, depressingly, the deep drone at higher speeds is still an absolute nightmare.

I'm thinking it's one of two things.  

I might need to bite the bullet and replace the backbox.

Or, I might need to check out the rear anti-roll bar. It's possible that because of the way this connects to the rear floor, it might be acting like a big tuning fork and resonating with the exhaust noise.  I have noticed a general increase in noise since I installed it.

I have also noticed a few odd noises coming from that area, so it's a free thing to check.

Anyway, to finish off my own droning, we had an amazing day out with @Andyrew and @captain_70s driving the slow scenic route up the middle of rural Perthshire and highlands, on an escort mission for his epic 1275 mile road trip to the far north.  

80 miles of quiet, scenic and twisty B roads on a beautiful day that felt like the start of spring. Heaven.

The Amazon's radiator did decide to shit itself on the way home, just to make sure we didn't forget the chod god was watching over us.

[danthecapriman]

Brilliant stuff👍 

Interesting you’re insulating the bonnet. It’s something I need to do on the Mercury as the original stuff has all long disappeared. 
Ill have a look for the stuff you’ve used if you reckon it’s good.

[juular]

20 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Brilliant stuff👍 

Interesting you’re insulating the bonnet. It’s something I need to do on the Mercury as the original stuff has all long disappeared. 
Ill have a look for the stuff you’ve used if you reckon it’s good.

Glassmat HTX 10mm Under bonnet insulation for vans, cars and boats. High temperature resistant and moisture resistant.

£20 or so for a bonnet sized roll. I spent £40 and intended to double up, but it was completely unnecessary, so I'm going to use the rest on bits of the roof.

There's cheaper stuff but I specifically chose this for the temperature stability and flame resistance.

[loserone]

Wait, it improves the ride quality?

[juular]

Dropped the rear anti-roll bar to see if it made any difference to the noise.

Conclusion : sort of.  The middle of the bar was riding on the diff casing which it's not meant to do, but I found it difficult to attach in a way that it doesn't.  It was amplifying quite a lot of drivetrain noise, so gearbox whine and clunking during gear changes were amplified into the floor. 

Interestingly I'm not sure whether the car handles better with or without.  It's significantly flatter through corners with the bar on, but the slight roll  without the bar actually 'feels' nicer. 

It didn't make any difference to the loud droning, so whether it goes back on the car is dependent on how much I can be arsed refitting it.

Did a local car meet yesterday. You can see that without the bar my drifting has significantly improved and I managed to do a couple of donuts into the space with ease.

This driver was impressed.

Things have arrived for further experiments.

[hairnet]

[juular]

Well that was a waste of time.

Thanks autodoc.

I also bought a silencer from a 740 as an experiment to see if it quietened the exhaust system.

As you can see it's pretty close to the Simon's box.

However on a trial fitting last night it was disappointingly loud as fuck. Way louder than the straight through box, which is somewhat confusing.

Need to do some thinking here.

 

 

[juular]

Another week, another mucking about with the exhaust session to try and rid the Amazon of the droning noise.

I've been reading that the resonator that comes with the Simon's exhaust makes the tone significantly deeper, so I thought it would be worth trying to replace it with something else. 

Bought a length of straight pipe and a small Jetex silencer. Together these were only about £50 so worth a shot.

Laid out here is how I planned to attach it between the front pipe and the axle pipe, with the old resonator laid underneath to show where I had to cut things.

Also had to transfer the exhaust hanger bracket from the resonator to the new silencer.

Everything mounts easier than the original Simon's setup, since the straight pipe has a lot more clearance against the floor.

First impressions - definitely sounds much nicer. Sort of fruity sound, less deep.  Exhaust no longer smacks the floor when taking large dips in the road at speed.

Visited another local meet at the weekend, this time with some Scotoshite friends @captain_70s @rml2345 @aldo135

No difference in the awful cabin resonance after taking the motorway home, so at this point I'm thinking I've completely eliminated the exhaust as the problem.

What next?

May as well add sound deadening. The floor is quite drummy.

Followed with some glass mat.

Same on passenger side.

Enormous difference in road and engine noise now, much quieter at speed.

But still drones.

At this point started to wonder if the rear axle is buggered or the propshaft bearing has gone, but since all of the noise disappears when you dip the clutch pedal I think it's safe to say that's not the problem. It's definitely an engine resonance problem, as you can sort of recreate the noise when stationary if you find the right RPM and hold it.

So it's got to be engine or gearbox related.  

Ah shit. Lightbulb moment!

Guess what I changed at the same time as the exhaust?

Here is the new gearbox mount.

This can only be described as like concrete. There's no give in the mount whatsoever and feels more like a solid plastic thing than rubber.

Nothing to lose here..

So after being attacked with a 10mm drill bit and refitted, I noticed a massive difference.  It still drones, but it feels like the RPM range where it occurs has narrowed massively, so I can now hold 67mph on the motorway without issue, and it disappears at around 75mph.  Still very annoying though.

I took a look at the engine mounts and they are even more solid than the gearbox mount. Grabbing the engine block and heaving on it, there is no give whatsoever.  I remember with the OEM mounts you could wobble the engine around a little, and when running it definitely had some movement in it.

I tried attacking those mounts in situ with a drill, but I can't really get in about it enough.

Annoyingly since turning my attention to the engine mounts I've found a lot of complaints online from owners of various types of car saying that new aftermarket engine mountings are making their cars undrivable due to vibration.

I've found a place that sells engine mounts for Land Rovers which will fit the Amazon, and claim that the mounts are as soft as OEM.  So I've ordered a set of those.

Fingers crossed!

[danthecapriman]

That gearbox mount sort of looks like a Ford Pinto engine mount. I wonder if one of those could be a soft enough alternative?

Those sound deadening sheet things are brilliant. I put loads in my Capri when I rebuilt it and it’s so much quieter inside now. All the drumming and vibration has gone.

Glad you’re getting to the bottom of that irritating noise though. It drives you mad when you get something like that when driving. My last Mercedes Sprinter van at work had it from brand new. Fine until a certain point and then it would make a horrendous metallic vibration noise which I couldn’t find for love nor money. Tracked it down eventually to the stupid anti theft strap attached to the CAT which was resting against it and vibrating at a certain point. Bending the attachment point out a tiny bit was all it took!

[juular]

C70

After being treated to breakfast at a cafe since it was my birthday, I went for a drive.

Since everyone was busy wheeling their Mums to the nearest garden centre, the roads were surprisingly quiet. It was such a bonny day, I just enjoyed driving for driving's sake and went without a plan. 

240

Getting a bit fed up with it for no real reason. Once I fix the fuse box issue I think I may sell it.

Amazon

I broke it.

Thought I was being clever.  Instead of spending £40 on a pressure testing kit, I found that I could achieve the same with a £2 bike inner tube and a tyre pump.

The source of the leak pretty clear here.

Cleaning off all the epoxy repair stuff I can see that I didn't even get near the actual source of it which is the big crack near the pipe.

 

I thought I'd continue to be smart, and took a plumber's blowtorch to the solder in the hope that I could reflow it and add some more. Nope.  All of the solder instantly fucked off inside the radiator and the pipe fitting fell off.

Oh well.

At least I can go and have a look at the solar eclipse.

They were right, the sun disappeared.

On the plus side my new engine mounts arrived, and they look a lot better than the crappy ones I got from Brookhouse. So that's something.

 

[mercedade]

16 minutes ago, juular said:

At least I can go and have a look at the solar eclipse.

They were right, the sun disappeared

 

Did a lol. Enjoyed. Sorry for the troubles, but still one of the best threads around.