Engineered like no other car. Not a single one like it. Thankfully.

[Talbot]

2 minutes ago, Stanky said:

It'll definitely talk to an W210, I assume it has the standard OBD2 port?

Thanks for the offer!  I'll have to see if there are converters available, as the pre-facelift W210 is not OBD2, rather it is 38-pin mercedes circular port.  I know there are some converters available, but whether a code reader that is expecting to see genuine OBD2 can read through a converter is another question.

[mat_the_cat]

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

That's BAS, ASR, ABS and SRS. 

BRASS BRAS ASS.

Nice warm working conditions you have there!

[Talbot]

An update, as the car is still undergoing work, and I need to document it to remind myself how much I've done!

One of the things that burned was the front-to-rear pipe for the screenwash, something that is very useful in an S210, as the rear window does get covered in clag on dirty days.  As mentioned before, it goes "the long way" from the reservoir and pump at the NSF of the car, to the OSR, to get into the tailgate and then back to the wiper motor, and then through the centre of the spindle.  Merc used to really engineer their cars back in the 80s.  (210 development started in about 1988 as far as sources indicate)

So, as there are a huge amount of inaccessible areas that the pipe goes through, and alternative to just pushing it into place was needed:

'

That's a woodscrew with the head and plain shank cut off, and the two sections of pipe twisted onto them.  This way there is no increase in diameter, and I can just pull the new pipe through difficult sections without too much issue, like this grommet in the bulkhead:

All this to pull through:

In it goes:

All through the car, and then it jumps behind some quite hard to remove paneling before appearing in the boot:

Once in the boot:

I'll probably put a join in it here, as the old pipe feels more flexible, and it has to go through the tailgate hinge, so probably best in softer pipe.  The new pipe is nylon, the old pipe feels like it's probably PU or similar, so best kept for flexing sections.

With that done, the interior can be put back together.  First thing to do is put the wiring loom trays back together, so this:

Becomes this:

I did then also get the carpets in and the front seats in.  The carpet has been drying in my airing cupboard for the last two weeks, so is now nice and not-rusting-the-floor-away and hopefully meaning I don't get a misted up windscreen every 5 minutes.  The front seats are astonishingly heavy to get back into place, but now that they're in, it looks like an actual car again.   Next thing to address is the passenger door card.

[Talbot]

The passenger door card was the main cosmetic item that got actually damaged in the fire.  I managed to source a replacement, but unfortunately not from quite the right specification car.  The car it came from did not have the power memory passenger seat that mine has, so didn't have the appropriate moulding for the switches.  So, as the lower bin section got the worst damage, that's the bit to swap.  It is, unfortunately, held on with plastic-melt-sprues, meaning to get it off you have to drill/cut the melt bit off.  Luckily, I managed to find some screws that had large flat heads and short stubby threads that fitted perfectly in the hollow sprues.  Only one needed modification in any way.

So with that swapped over, I then had to epoxy on the plastic pads that hold the plastic clips that hold the card on.  Rather than just a hole in the fibreboard, there's a bonded on plastic stiffener for every mounting point.  Even the damn door cards are well engineered!  The original glue is of course now 27+ years old, hence the need for new epoxy:

Mini clamps being used until the awkward ones set.

Then it's out with the spray adhesive to stick the layer of sound deadening on:

And the card is ready for the car.  Note the hole for the airbag to punch through should it be needed.

Comparison of the two cards.  Where I previously had a card with seat switches and a burned bottom (Oooh, matron!) I've now swapped them about to have a card with switches and a better bin area, and the donor card with the burned bit.   There's still a small scorch area on the card I am using, but it's not really visible, so I'm not going to worry.

Seats visible fitted there too.

I got the card fitted, which also fixed the passenger-door-is-always-open issue, as it turns out the door switch bears on the plastic trim around the door catch.  So if you remove the door card, the switch cannot detect the door being closed.  Slightly odd design, but I can see why.

Then it got late, the light started to go, and I was beginning to make mistakes.  Time to give up for the weekend.

[DeanH]

Glad you're making progress with it. It have spat my dummy out long ago!

[Talbot]

Yet again, A step forwards, a step sideways, and a step backwards.

Got all the last bits of trim fitted today, and it looks a lot more like a car again now.  Got it started, and drove it round the block to make sure there's nothing dramatically wrong.  It drove OK, although it's obvious the gearbox has had a major reset or upset of some sort as the revs were all over the place at different times, and it held on to gears a lot longer than usual, plus changed down the box much more eagerly than I would have expected.  I think this is a "learning" gearbox controller, so maybe this is exactly what would be expected.  Not sure.

The SRS error appears to have disappeared now, which is good news.  So, the remaining items that don't work are:

ABS,  BAS (likely related)
Passenger power window.  No idea what's going on there.
Passenger power mirror.  It will power fold but won't adjust.  I suspect a control module somewhere.
Passenger power seat.  Utterly dead.
Interior lamps.  None of the buttons on the overhead control module will do anything.  I cannot turn on or off any lamps other than the mode it's currently stuck in.
Sunroof will not respond at all.

Only the ABS stops the car getting an MOT though, so I think I'll see if I can get that sorted, get an MOT on it, and then take it from there.  Just want the car back now.

[Rust Collector]

I'm sorry to hear that you're still having electrical issues, but well done on the amount of work you've done to get the car back together and running as the issue with the loom must have been daunting.

I've got ABS/BAS/ESP stuck up on my W210 currently. I have a Mercedes reader that can connect to most models of this age, however it doesn't support the 210 on the 38 pin sadly although it supports some other 38 pin cars which is a bit wank. I know that you can do some basic diagnostics with a volt meter, it's somewhat arduous but you can check all four ABS sensors by checking for a low voltage signal from the body side and an AC voltage from the sensor with the wheel turning. The pump can be checked by checking for 12v at the relay in the engine bay, then you can remove the connector to the pump, put a jumper wire in place of the relay to simulate the energised state, and check for 12v in to the pump and also check for good earths on all the connectors out of the pump by reading the voltage between them and the positive post in the engine bay. At a guess, if one of the body control modules is damaged I'm thinking you'd either see no 12v feed to the relay when starting, a bad earth at the pump, or an out of range voltage from the body side of the ABS sensor wiring...

Have you done the steering angle sensor reset of wildly turning from lock to lock after turning the ignition on? I think that's the only thing that needs manual input on these cars to clear ABS/BAS errors, everything else will self clear if the fault is resolved from my understanding, although I'm so far down the rabbit hole with fault finding on these cars now that I could be completely confused 😅 

 

[Talbot]

5 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

Have you done the steering angle sensor reset of wildly turning from lock to lock after turning the ignition on? I think that's the only thing that needs manual input on these cars to clear ABS/BAS errors, everything else will self clear if the fault is resolved from my understanding,

That's not one I had heard of.  I assume it's done after starting the car, as turning from lock to lock with the engine off is quite* hard work!

Now that it's mobile again, I plan to drive the car down to my local specialist, who does have Star which can communicate with a pre-facelift W210 38-pin and both read and program the car.  Once that's done, we'll see how far I've managed to get.

I do think I have some damaged control modules somewhere though.  The window / sunroof / interior lamps issue can only really be due to a damaged module somewhere.  All the wiring is re-connected, so the correct low-amp triggers should be getting to the control modules.

I just about refuse to be beaten on this.  I'm still irked that I set fire to the car, so I'm damnwell going to fix it!

[Rust Collector]

10 hours ago, Talbot said:

That's not one I had heard of.  I assume it's done after starting the car, as turning from lock to lock with the engine off is quite* hard work!

Now that it's mobile again, I plan to drive the car down to my local specialist, who does have Star which can communicate with a pre-facelift W210 38-pin and both read and program the car.  Once that's done, we'll see how far I've managed to get.

I do think I have some damaged control modules somewhere though.  The window / sunroof / interior lamps issue can only really be due to a damaged module somewhere.  All the wiring is re-connected, so the correct low-amp triggers should be getting to the control modules.

I just about refuse to be beaten on this.  I'm still irked that I set fire to the car, so I'm damnwell going to fix it!

It's one of those things where if you google it almost every forum seems to have a slightly different variation, but the modal average seems to be start the car and turn from lock to lock 2 to 3 times, holding it on the lock briefly. It's never worked on either of my cars so presumably they have worse gremlins going on, but you never know 😅

Let me know how you get on with the specialist, if it's not hugely expensive then I may be inclined to take our 'new' E Class over to have the codes read and save me dicking around with a voltmeter.

Your car definitely deserves to be fixed though, the E300's are getting thin on the ground these days!

[cort1977]

There's definitely an accelerator reset procedure on these as well, did it on one I had years ago. Easy and resets the learning process so hopefully that issue can be resolved.

[Volksy]

I've a similar C Class, C180K SE auto on a 2004 and 94k

Had it two years now, and to be honest it's a grand car. Mine is bubbling on the rear arches (SA Built). 

It returns similar empeegees on the motorway, which was a surprise. 

 

Issues I've had have been:

Front ARB drop links - rears need doing shortly as it's gone form squeaking like a victorian pram to a slight clunk.

Rear trailing/toe-in arm snapped - leading to interesting handling - however new part was only £35 and a doddle to fit. (Do check these, as the get the spray from the rear tyre and rot accordingly)

Rear exhaust heatshield has dropped, so needs re-affixing/throwing in the bin.

Occasionally throws up a 'Bulb Out' warning, despite them all working. 

Main issue is that it throws the EML light on all the time, due to a perished breather from the crankcase to the supercharger. P1071 IIRC. This is well documented on Mercedes Forums as the $10 fix. The part is cheap but getting to it is an absolute pig of a job. Doesn't affect performance so I have a BlueTooth OBD2 reader permanently plugged in and cancel it with my phone (handy if the MOT Viewing Area is close to the car.. ) .

They are pretty dull to drive, but comfortable, quiet, and reasonably practical. Lack of a folding rear seat is a pain sometimes - on that, always check you have your keys in hand/pocket before closing the boot!

 

They are known to suffer from Timing Chain failure - due to wear on the cam sprockets - regular oil changes should prevent this. Lack of a dipstick is a pain, I think you can buy them as a retrofit though. 

Rear subframes are also known to rot out, I've heard that Mercedes are allegedly still replacing these under goodwill.

 

I do the throttle reset around once a month, as I generally use it for the commute to work, it rarely goes above 2000rpm, as its a laaaazzy car. You can feel it getting more sluggish as the month goes on. Takes about 10 mins. 

 

Make sure everything is turned off inc radio/auto lights, devices unplugged from the cig lighter etc.

1. Turn the ignition key to the on (NOT start) position.

2. Press the gas pedal to the floor and HOLD for five seconds.

3. Turn the key to the "off" position (don't remove the key), then release the gas pedal.

4. Wait at least two minutes - don't do anything.

That should reset the throttle.

 

Does transform the car I will admit!

 

[Rusty Pelican]

I too do the throttle reset on my W203 , Makes a huge difference too 

 

[Stanky]

2 hours ago, Volksy said:

I do the throttle reset around once a month, as I generally use it for the commute to work, it rarely goes above 2000rpm, as its a laaaazzy car. You can feel it getting more sluggish as the month goes on. Takes about 10 mins. 

 

Make sure everything is turned off inc radio/auto lights, devices unplugged from the cig lighter etc.

1. Turn the ignition key to the on (NOT start) position.

2. Press the gas pedal to the floor and HOLD for five seconds.

3. Turn the key to the "off" position (don't remove the key), then release the gas pedal.

4. Wait at least two minutes - don't do anything.

That should reset the throttle.

 

Does transform the car I will admit!

Thankyou, I didn't know this was a 'thing' but have just gone and done it on my S203. once you have completed the 4 steps, should there be any notification that something has happened/it has worked? Or just remove key and carry on with your day? I'll be driving to the tip later so will see if it feels different to drive. Its definitely not been reset on my car in 3.5 years!

[Volksy]

2 hours ago, Stanky said:

Thankyou, I didn't know this was a 'thing' but have just gone and done it on my S203. once you have completed the 4 steps, should there be any notification that something has happened/it has worked? Or just remove key and carry on with your day? I'll be driving to the tip later so will see if it feels different to drive. Its definitely not been reset on my car in 3.5 years!

No, there is no notification that it has been completed. I forgot to mention that you should keep all doors closed etc. whist doing the do. 

If there is no difference, try it again. But it's very noticable on mine if it hasn't worked.

 

Some say that it resets the auto gearbox, but as yours is a camarero espanol it shouldn't affect that.

[Stanky]

"I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about misleading information provided to me in good faith..."

 

4 minutes ago, Volksy said:

No, there is no notification that it has been completed. I forgot to mention that you should keep all doors closed etc. whist doing the do. 

Ah.

*ahem*

(goes off to try again with the door closed)

[Snake Charmer]

I truly felt your pain reading through the welding saga. I like a Co2 extinguisher for the additional cold and what it might be able to save! I had an engine pop back and set fire to a fuel leak, maybe 20 seconds at most and that took bloody hours to fix.

When that rubberised sealant became available off the shelf to the general public it was no better than Tetroseal on a Moggy or Marina, just a  better factory looking finish for the Mot sealing all the damp in. Bare metal and a couple of holes drilled in would last longer unless the repair is better. 

I did a CLK outrigger that something off the road had hit and broken through the factory sealant. The outrigger and floor were mush as a couple of the plastic bungs had wasted away letting water sit in there.

[Talbot]

On 2/24/2023 at 10:21 AM, Volksy said:

I've a similar C Class, C180K SE auto on a 2004 and 94k.    It returns similar empeegees on the motorway, which was a surprise.

Speaking of that, I've been getting more and more used to this car.  If it was an estate, I'd consider keeping it, but as a saloon it's just a bloody nuisance.  There's been several times recently I've been unable to collect something or have missed out on pulling something very useful out of a skip as I've only a saloon car available.  The 210 is just more useful that I'd realised.  Seriously considering getting another 210 estate even before I've sorted this one...  Because the answer is always to buy another car!

But.  MPG wise, this is hard to beat:

Which is amazing.  Yes, I was slightly hypermileing it, as I was in no hurry, but was still maintaining a decent average speed.  It's very noticeable that the range of economy from this engine is extremely wide, as even with that headline figure, the tank of fuel overall economy was this:

Given that significantly over half of that was cold-starts and schlepping around town/local roads (where the economy is well into the 20s), that's not bad as an average.  With the current difference in fuel pricing, it's also the equivalent of a Diesel needing to achieve about 45mpg, which the E-class most definitely will not do.  Not sure even if a C-class diesel would do that as a genuine average.  The hypermileing journey economy of 52 above is a diesel-equivalent of 64mpg.  Unattainable by anything I've ever driven.  So for pump fuel, this is just about as economic as I can be at the moment.

What amazes me is that what is now an 18 year old car still looks fresh and presentable:

Doesn't look at all out of place.  In 1993, a car from 1975 looked utterly outdated, and probably would have been as rough as a badgers arse.  This still feels like a car just a few years old to me.

It has, however, developed a rather infuriating squeak from something under the bonnet.  It seems to squeak on vibrations generated by the engine.  Not an issue at motorway speeds, but if you labour the engine at 1500rpm, it has a very noticeable squeaky rattle.  Must fix that..

[mat_the_cat]

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

Speaking of that, I've been getting more and more used to this car.  If it was an estate, I'd consider keeping it, but as a saloon it's just a bloody nuisance.

There's always the option of combining the two, surely? I mean, this would have worked if they hadn't got confused and attached the estate bit to the wrong end!

[Talbot]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:26 PM, Talbot said:

A list of faults.

The gearbox has had a major reset or upset of some sort as the revs were all over the place.
ABS,  BAS (likely related) 
Passenger power window.  No idea what's going on there. Fixed
Passenger power mirror.  It will power fold but won't adjust.  I suspect a control module somewhere. Fixed
Passenger power seat.  Utterly dead. Fixed
Interior lamps.  None of the buttons on the overhead control module will do anything.  I cannot turn on or off any lamps other than the mode it's currently stuck in. Fixed
Sunroof will not respond at all.Fixed

Five down, two to go.  ABS fault comes on before the car even moves, so that has to be either a stored code or a buggered module.  Gearbox might be in "limp home" mode.  Didn't even know such a thing existed, but apparently it could be linked to the ABS fault.  Also could still be a buggered module, but I seem to have been lucky and not let any magic smoke out of any ECUs so far.  Driving the car at the moment is almost comical with it not knowing what gear to be in and randomly downshifting when you least expect it.  It keeps jittering between gears too, seemingly unable to decide whether to change up or not.  It'll go all the way up to 5th, then suddenly go "hmm, actually, no, third is better" and you find yourself at 3500rpm with absolutely no warning.  Very odd.

[mat_the_cat]

The obvious link to me is a speed sensor, or the wiring to one. As a wild guess I wonder whether the shielding has become damaged, so electrical noise is influencing the reported vehicle speed?

[Rust Collector]

You should be able to check that by taking a reading from a voltmeter at the body side of all 4 ABS sensor connectors, from memory if all is well then there should be a really low but consistent voltage showing, something like 0.2-0.5v. It's a real shame that the cheaper diagnostic units don't work on these cars, when my Dad's W211 had a nearly identical fault it was really straightforward to plug into it and using live data see that there were fluctuating speed values from the rear end even when stationary which made life a hundred times easier.

@Talbot I have it on good authority that if you have one broken S210 sat around then buying a second S210 to drive whilst the first one gets repaired is definitely the thinking man's move 😅 Are you a member of the W210 owner's facebook group? Some bargains pop up on there every now and again, that's what caught me out...

[Talbot]

1 hour ago, mat_the_cat said:

The obvious link to me is a speed sensor, or the wiring to one. As a wild guess I wonder whether the shielding has become damaged, so electrical noise is influencing the reported vehicle speed?

A good thought.  I'm not entirely sure if I burned through an ABS sensor lead or not.  if I did, then they're UTP rather than shielded, and although I had to unwind a couple of twists, I can't believe that would be causing the issues I'm seeing.

What doesn't help is I'm not even sure where the ABS computer is in this car...

[Tepper]

Excellent work seeing this through, I'm sure lots of people would've thrown in the towel by now. Should make 300k plus in your hands, hopefully it doesn't fight you too much getting the last few things sorted.

[Rust Collector]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:13 AM, Talbot said:

What doesn't help is I'm not even sure where the ABS computer is in this car...

It looks like it should be in the engine bay fuse/relay box:

It looks like the rest of the loom can be viewed here as well:

https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/mercedes/1/fg/210025/45p/54/685/

**Edit**

I realise that could also mean to be showing that it's in the ECU cage under the passenger footwell, as it looks like it has a grommet before the multipin connector. A similar age CLK I pulled apart only had the engine and transmission controller under there from memory though. I'd check the relay box in the engine bay first though as that's easier to access.

[Talbot]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:11 PM, Talbot said:

Five down, two to go.  ABS fault comes on before the car even moves, so that has to be either a stored code or a buggered module.  Gearbox might be in "limp home" mode.  Didn't even know such a thing existed, but apparently it could be linked to the ABS fault.  Also could still be a buggered module, but I seem to have been lucky and not let any magic smoke out of any ECUs so far.  Driving the car at the moment is almost comical with it not knowing what gear to be in and randomly downshifting when you least expect it.  It keeps jittering between gears too, seemingly unable to decide whether to change up or not.  It'll go all the way up to 5th, then suddenly go "hmm, actually, no, third is better" and you find yourself at 3500rpm with absolutely no warning.  Very odd.

Had a chance to try looking at this over the weekend.

Managed to get a lend of a rather nice aftermarket diagnostics system that has just about every plug from the mid-90's onwards.  Fitted the bastard great plug (38pin Merc) and wireless box that plugs into the car, and got the windows tablet to connect to it.  It knows about all the modules in the E300 (and about 20,000 other cars too) and can communicate with them properly, which is good news.  Apparently it's about £2.5k of diagnostics kit, but a really lovely system.  Car had about 50 stored codes in loads of different modules.  Cleared most of them, but could not clear three persistent codes from the ABS/BAS module.  They didn't show up as current codes, but also would not clear.  Using live data and moving the car about a bit, it was instantly obvious that both rear channels for the ABS were showing the car as stationary.  The front channels were good, but the rears showed no speed at all.  Now, given that I was absolutely confident that the cabling has been repaired correctly, and the chances of losing two speed sensors/rings at the same time is pretty damn slim, my assumption is that the input channels to the ECU have had a spike and are busted.

A quick exchange of an ABS/BAS ecu from another car which has matching part numbers (which seems to be all W210, pre-facelift at least) and sure enough, the ABS and BAS errors are gone.   w00T!!  So.. fit that properly into the ECU box and drive the car.  Sure enough, the completely chaotic gearchanges are gone and the car is driving properly again.

Thank fuck for that.  Was beginning to get a bit worried it wouldn't ever be fixed.

So.  Just the bloody great crack in the windscreen to sort, and then I can see what it fails on at MOT...

 

[Talbot]

Not updated this in a fair while, now is as good-a-time as any:

Took the car down to the local MOT place on the basis of asking if the crack would be an MOT fail.  Turns out the answer is no, it's not a fail.  Not because it's within the rules of max 10mm diameter on the driver's side and max 40mm diameter on the passenger side, but because the MOT ruling has changed, and now it's entirely tester's discretion as to whether damage causes an issue with visibility.  The crack(s) in this screen are extensive, but as they are all down at the bottom of the screen, and nowhere near where you actually look out, the MOT man told me it would be a pass-and-advise on that point.

Ooo!  So I left it with him to MOT.  Lob it through, see what else needs doing.

That was on the Saturday.  On the Monday afternoon I get a call from him "It's looking like it's going to be a pass.  Can you come and get it?"
"Yep, I'll be there in 20 minutes!"

So that's a pass with just 3 minors.  Cracked windscreen, Slight oil leak (since fixed) and rear brake pipes beginning to corrode. (which is a known issue on W210 these days and a job I've done before)

Phew.

[Talbot]

Not updated this in a fair while, but that's not to say there hasn't been a few incidents.

Got the screen changed in the end for the £75 or so excess on insurance.  I was skeptical initially that autoglass would have a top-shade windscreen for a 25+year-old W210 in stock, but it turned out they did.  Clearly the bonding goop they use these days is quite different to 20 years ago, as the screen didn't need to be taped in place to prevent slumping, and it was able to be driven within an hour.  I didn't actually need to drive it until many hours later, but it was nice to know that I could if needed.

I always forget how amazing it is to have new glass in a car.  It's like I've been given new eyes while driving!  Had to organise a new wiper for it too, as I wasn't willing to put a new wiper on broken glass, but at the same time didn't want an old scratchy blade on nice new glass.

Completely failed to get any pictures of the car with the screen out, but then the Autoglass guy was done in under an hour, which I thought was pretty impressive.  I've cut bonded glass out of a car before now and had to bond windows in and know just how much of a ballache it is.  I expected it to take a lot longer!

Next up:  Lack of electricity.

[Talbot]

How not to break down:

While away for a week with my housemate and both of her dogs (in a very nice Air B&B, as hosted by @mat_the_cat) the merc decided it was going to start playing silly buggers.

Having started to run the OM606 on Veg (as was always my intention) it started to gain some rather irritating leaks in the fuel system.  For anyone who has run Veg in an older car, this is quite common.  Veg is quite a good fuel system cleaner, and will clear years of built-up crap.  Unfortunately, it also will highlight any weaknesses in the tightness of the system, and old O-Rings that have gone square and hard will suddenly start to leak like a sieve.

On an OM606, the lift pump and injection pump are both higher than the fuel tank, meaning any leaky O-ring, even if it's on the pressure side of the lift pump, will let air back in when the engine is off, allowing fuel to drain back to the tank.  This is even worse on an S210 (rather than a W210) as the fuel tank on the estate is under the floor, rather than the saloon where it's vertical behind the rear seats, so there is more height to promote drainback, and you can never fill the tank high enough to prevent it.

... which is exactly what was happening.  So, the fix is to park facing downhill.  If you do so, the problem can be reduced or even completely eliminated.  So I was doing so.  At least most of the time.  When you can't do so, the car was taking quite a bit of cranking to start, bringing the battery down quite a bit.  It tended to recharge ok though, but it was noticeable that voltages were all a bit lower than normal.

Then on Thursday a bit of an oddity:  While driving, the charge warning came on, and the voltage dropped away to off-charge.  Curious.  1 minute later, it's back on charge again.  Ooookaaaayyyy.  Not ideal, but being 250+ miles from home, not a lot I can do about it.  It then did it again that evening.  Oh well, we're off home tomorrow, I'll worry about it when we get back.

Start the journey back, and sure enough within no time at all, it's off-charge.  Then back on charge.  Then off.  For the first 50 miles or so, the car was on charge about half the time.  It is of course raining and dark, so it's essential to have wiper, lights and interior fan on, all of which together, including the current needed for the ECUs and other permanent circuits means when it goes off charge, the voltage absolutely plummets.  It doesn't help that the battery has been working quite hard recently, and is by no means in it's first flush of youth.  Within minutes the voltage is down to below 12V, and it got perilously close to 11V at times.

Going round Shrewsbury, the voltage gets to 10.8v  Not good at all.  I know the engine starts to splutter at about 10.5v., so it's time to pull in.  Various twatting of the alternator in the hope that it's worn out brushes and I can get a bit more out of them prove absolutely fruitless.  Tried a massive engine rev, and sure enough it comes back on charge.  Great, get going again.. we've still 200 miles to go.

Predictably, within a few miles, it's off charge again and the voltage is dropping like a stone.  Even with wiper off, lights on sidelamps and fan on minimum, we're losing volts fast enough that I have maybe 10-20 miles to make a decision.

It then starts absolutely chucking it down.. Wiper needs to be on full speed, headlamps are essential, and we're beginning to fog up.  This is becoming unsafe.  Also, if I break down on the side of the road, we've got a real problem.  So, the decision is taken to stop at the next services so that we're somewhere off the main road and safe.  Telford services is next junction.. we're going there.  No amount of revving the engine is putting it back on charge, and as we pull into the services, I'm down to 10.6v.  Not good.

So Ash (housemate) goes into the services to have a break, and I sit there 180 miles from home, knowing that my breakdown cover has expired, and wonder what the next move is...

[sdkrc]

Is this a live breakdown or are you recounting the tale?  

[Talbot]

Recounting the tale.  This happened a few weeks ago.