New shitter. 1982 Citroen VISA.

[Lankytim]

It's been hard to steal much time to play with the VISA but I managed an hour or so tonight. A borrowed Volvo 940 battery just about squeezed under the bonnet and was bolted into place, the engine positively whizzes round now. It won't start as there's no fuel and it's still missing a fuel pipe anyway.

Most of the lighting is now working along with other electrics, the horn is slowly going from a squeak to a full blown honk which is satisfying  (but must be annoying the neighbours)  just the OSR light cluster resisting attempts to get things like the indicator and number plate light working. I'm sure with perseverance it will give in eventually.

The seat covers were removed and although I'd hoped to find immaculate untouched cloth underneath the reality is a set of sun damaged and very fragile seats. The covers looked shite anyway and will be replaced with something better soon, hopefully a nicer interior can be sourced in time. 

In other news I've sourced a pair of new headlights with the correct amber indicators which should be arriving some time next week. 

Tomorrow I'm planning on getting a gallon of petrol, fitting the fuel line and attempting a grand "fire up".... Fingers crossed it should be running and driving by this time tomorrow!

[Mrs6C]

Is there anything specific it needs now? @Six-cylinder and I are seeing Mikee the CCC Visa Forum lead tomorrow and can ask him for help to source.

Is it just the window channel you need or the glass as well?

[Lankytim]

8 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Is there anything specific it needs now? @Six-cylinder and I are seeing Mikee the CCC Visa Forum lead tomorrow and can ask him for help to source.

Is it just the window channel you need or the glass as well?

There's a few odds and ends I need, the channel from the window being one (provided I can remove it from the glass) I'm still looking for wheels but lack of funds is stopping play at the moment. 

A pair of grot free rear doors would be nice but not essential right now. Do these things still grace breakers yards in Spain or the south of France where presumably rust isn't an issue?

[Mrs6C]

Doors do turn up on occasion at Citromobile (fantastic annual European Citroen show in early May, held near Amsterdam Schiphol airport); there is a big following for the Visa in the Netherlands and the national club keeps a stock of spares cars. I think that's where we got a full set for one of ours. I will ask Mike though. Otherwise, letting in some metal might be a more practical option.

I'll ask about the window and window channel.

You can get the channels new:

Here's a new one from Les Classics (left hand would be UK passenger side...)
http://www.les-classics.com/carrosserie-visa/61-bas-de-glace-pour-porte-avant-gauche-visa-piece-d-origine.html

The right-hand side one (for passengers in France!)
http://www.les-classics.com/carrosserie-visa/60-bas-de-glace-pour-porte-avant-droite-visa-piece-d-origine.html

This post from the Visa Forum in 2014 notes that the front door window channels (that fits to the bottom of the glass) for C15 (and Visa) were available from Citroen at that time, so worth asking a Citroen dealer also:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/visaforum/citro-n-c15-door-runner-t2028.html

These are the part numbers for the driver's door, so we might assume the passenger side would also have been available:
Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
5481391 WINDOW SEAL* 7.15 GBP 8.58 GBP 8.58 GBP
7920071942 WINDOW CHANNEL 14.21 GBP 17.05 GBP 17.05 GBP
*the seal is the rubber retaining strip that fits between the glass and the channel

[Lankytim]

Urgh, it just won’t run!

I connected up a fuel can with a pump to the carburettor to see if I could get some sort of action from the engine, with a fresh battery I got the odd pop but nothing else. Taking the top from the carb I found the float was stuck and the float chambers were bone dry, after blowing out any debris, checking the galleries and jets were clear with an air line the carb seemed to be filling with petrol nicely. Still just the odd pop and maybe a second of running..

Plugs seem ok but the spark seems very weak. Rigging up a secondary supply to the coils live side got a slightly better spark but not enough to get the engine to run. Disappointing. The previous owner seems to have run extra wires all over the place so they could do with being checked out, I’m also not sure if the coil is wired up correctly either, the live and earth could be the wrong way around (it was disconnected when I got the Visa.

 

 

[Stinkwheel]

Maddening, I hate chasing down wiring problems caused by other people.
If it’s any help... On the 2cv’s it will still run whichever way the coil pos/neg are connected. I would assume it’s the same for a 2pot visa.


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[jonathan_dyane]

Very frustrating! The electronic ignition on these is usually pretty good however they are hard on plugs.

I’m sure as Stinkwheel says the ignition connections are unimportant on these, it just changes the direction the spark jumps across the plug.

[Zelandeth]

If there's a condenser involved that would be my first port of call, as a stuffed one can give a weak spark.

[Stinkwheel]

If there's a condenser involved that would be my first port of call, as a stuffed one can give a weak spark.

Unfortunately not, electronic ignition.


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[Lankytim]

There’s a couple of sensors on the bellhousing plus connectors for the “ignition computer” which apparently lives under the dash somewhere, these will be my next port of call I think. 

[HillmanImp]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:51 AM, Lankytim said:

I could use a set to blast and paint if you can find a half decent set of 4?

Soz, I forgot to reply to this. 

I got them to do the same as have winter tyres on Meg. Wanted to get some to lob summer tyres on but haven't got round to it yet. 

I don''t want to get rid of them as I do plan on using them at some point but if you desperately need some wheels to get this thing moving you are welcome to them.

[dollywobbler]

Have you put fresh plugs in? 2CVs are certainly very fussy about plug condition.

[Lankytim]

Had a funeral to go to this morning but managed to spend the afternoon playing with this heap. The engine resolutely  refuses to start, I've removed and cleaned the sensors on the bellhousing, checked all the connectors and removed and refitted the ignition computer making sure all the connectors were OK. Still no difference, I get a weak spark when turning the engine over for a second or so, sometimes the engine will catch but instantly dies when the spark vanishes. I'm not sure where to go next in terms of fault finding as I'm not that familiar with this system.  Maybe the ignition computer is on the blink, I'm leaning towards a knackered coil though. It's mega dissapointing not to have the engine runing at this stage, but every attempt should get me closer to the prize- a turn key 2 cyl Visa!

While thinking about the ignition problem I went around the interior with a spray can of orange scented dashboard cleaner, it's all come up pretty well and looks bit less like it's been dragged out of a hedge. 

7 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Have you put fresh plugs in? 2CVs are certainly very fussy about plug condition.

I can't get a decent spark from the HT lead so new plugs wouldn't make a difference at this stage. 

[Stinkwheel]

.... The engine resolutely  refuses to start....[\quote]

Have you got a visa Haynes manual? There is actually a fairly comprehensive set of testing listed for the 2cyl ignition system. If you need I can take pics of the relative sections and PM them to you.


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[Lankytim]

11 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

39 minutes ago, Lankytim said:

.... The engine resolutely  refuses to start....[\quote]

Have you got a visa Haynes manual? There is actually a fairly comprehensive set of testing listed for the 2cyl ignition system. If you need I can take pics of the relative sections and PM them to you.


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Actually, I have! 

[Stinkwheel]

Actually, I have! 

That’s cool then, just thought I’d ask


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[somewhatfoolish]

A weak spark rather than no spark strongly suggests the problem lies with the coil and/or high resistance LT connections rather than the box of tricks, although verifying the timing is ok wouldn't hurt.

[Lankytim]

6 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

 

That’s cool then, just thought I’d ask


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I had to rack my brains and was sure I had one in the piles of manuals I’m trying to sell. The one I’ve got like new, not even a grubby thumbprint. 

[Lankytim]

4 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

A weak spark rather than no spark strongly suggests the problem lies with the coil and/or high resistance LT connections rather than the box of tricks, although verifying the timing is ok wouldn't hurt.

The spark comes and goes as it pleases it seems. I don’t think the ignition timing is adjustable on these, there’s just a couple of sensors on the bellhousing to control the timing. 

[Stinkwheel]

The spark comes and goes as it pleases it seems. I don’t think the ignition timing is adjustable on these, there’s just a couple of sensors on the bellhousing to control the timing. 

Sensors have been known to fail, as have the ignition boxes. As have coils. All are available, but not cheap. Chevronics have got sensors and ign box in stock I think, and Ecas 2Cv parts have the brown visa specific coils.


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[Mrs6C]

If the first in the latest batch of pictures is of anything to do with ignition, then the white wire looks very much past its best...

[Lankytim]

17 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

If the first in the latest batch of pictures is of anything to do with ignition, then the white wire looks very much past its best...

It's been nibbled! With the white wire broken the wiper won't park and stops when you turn the wipers off. 

[ruffgeezer]

Think there are some visa wheels at work...

[Lankytim]

37 minutes ago, ruffgeezer said:

Think there are some visa wheels at work...

Tell me more..

 

Question... can these coils be tested by earthing the neutral side of the coil? Would this produce a spark at the plug? 

[500tops]

Dunno if any of this is of use?

[barrett]

iirc my local Citroen guy has some nos twin-pot Visa electronic ignition parts in stock, so if you figure out if something needs replacing let me know and I'll see what he gets, as I'm sure it'll be cheaper than Chevronics or whatever.

[Lankytim]

3 hours ago, 500tops said:

Dunno if any of this is of use?

Yes it is! Many thanks!

 

1 hour ago, barrett said:

iirc my local Citroen guy has some nos twin-pot Visa electronic ignition parts in stock, so if you figure out if something needs replacing let me know and I'll see what he gets, as I'm sure it'll be cheaper than Chevronics or whatever.

Thanks, I'll bear it in mind.  I'm still not giving up on getting it running with what I have but I may well have to take you up on that offer. 

[Stinkwheel]

iirc my local Citroen guy has some nos twin-pot Visa electronic ignition parts in stock, so if you figure out if something needs replacing let me know and I'll see what he gets, as I'm sure it'll be cheaper than Chevronics or whatever.

That’s pretty amazing, visa parts are pretty thin on the ground these days (as I know when trying to find even just a mirror glass yesterday) who’s your local 2 pot guy?


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[jonny69]

Does it spit into life momentarily if you squirt some fuel directly down the carb barrel? Don't forget it has very long intake runners, which take a LOT of cranking before the fuel even gets to the cylinders. Then the mixture needs to be bang on correct to actually fire...

Also, is your crank vent valve (that vent pot standing up in the middle) working ok? It's got a reed valve inside it and holds a bit of vacuum in the crank case, as I understand it. 2CV engines can be murder to start if that valve isn't working.

[Lankytim]

1 hour ago, jonny69 said:

Does it spit into life momentarily if you squirt some fuel directly down the carb barrel? Don't forget it has very long intake runners, which take a LOT of cranking before the fuel even gets to the cylinders. Then the mixture needs to be bang on correct to actually fire...

Also, is your crank vent valve (that vent pot standing up in the middle) working ok? It's got a reed valve inside it and holds a bit of vacuum in the crank case, as I understand it. 2CV engines can be murder to start if that valve isn't working.

It will spit into life for a second without putting fuel down the carb now, the issue seems to be a weak orange spark that dies away after a second or so running. 
 

I’m not sure on the vent thing, I’ll have to take  look at that.