Project BX17RD - the further adventures of PBO

[spartacus]

I think Mat means the little slots that run around the circumference of the outer cable, there's a spring clip, you pop it out, pull the outer cable sheath to take up slack, then slip the spring clip back on the appropriate slot to hold it in its new position.

Apologies if I'm telling you something you already know!

[vulgalour]

@spartacus I did not know that, I'd assumed that clip was just to hold the bit of plastic in place as a cable guide rather than any part of the adjustment, so that was very useful info, thank you.

Had another go at adjusting the throttle cable now that I know the cable guide is actually also adjustment.  Started by resetting the nut I'd previously adjusted back to where it was originally which introduced so much slack into the cable you an actually see it in this photo.

It seemed to work that the little clip (which yes, I did ping off into the engine bay and spent ages with a screwdriver digging it out from behind stuff, because of course I did) is coarse adjustment and the nut I'd previously adjusted was fine adjustment so now I have the cable retensioned as it was the first time I did it but, hopefully, properly this time.  I moved the clip out by one ridge and moved the nut on the other part out a little to take up the slack so that things rested on the stop at the other end of the bracket on the left which I hope is the correct way of doing it.

While I was doing that, and digging out the clip that pinged off, I could hear the exhaust tinging on something.  Now, the exhaust has been a bit of a nuisance in that sometimes it clatters about but also didn't seem to be loose when I was trying to figure out what it was banging about against.  Turns out, when the car has sat long enough to be right down on the floor the exhaust just touches the floor.  There's not really anything I can do about that.  The car isn't resting any weight on the exhaust, and I suspect if the drive was properly flat it wouldn't touch the exhaust like it is here, but at least that's another issue discovered.

Recently I splashed out on some new Citroen floor mats too.  They do look and fit better than the generic ones I had in there and now the inside of the car smells like a tyre shop.

My last point is a question for the Citroen botherers out there which is the rear suspension boots.  I'm going to tackle this job soon, I'm hoping the spheres aren't totally seized in place and that my chain strap is going to be up to the task of removing them but, of course, we shall see.  As far as I can work out, you do need to remove the spheres to replace the boots but when I do this, do I also need to replace any o-rings on the spheres?  I would expect to have to.  If I do have to replace them, where do I get them?  It's an important component so I want to be sure of getting good quality replacement bits when I do the job.

[dean36014]

I'm certain you don't need to remove the spheres. The ram connects to the rear suspension arm with a clip so you can disconnect it and then remove the boot and replace it. I might have missed out some steps there but certain I didn't remove the sphere when I replaced them on shonky. Worth investing in new clips for the sphere end of the boot as they seize up.

[vulgalour]

I didn't get new clips, just new clamps for the boots.  Where would I get the clips from?

[dean36014]

Ah sorry I meant clamps, although be careful removing the clips where the ram attaches to the suspension arm as they can ping off or snap

[dean36014]

Should also say and I'm sure you know this. Put bleriot in high and support the rear of car then drop into low and depressurise before doing this. Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!

[vulgalour]

That was going to be the plan.  Well here's hoping it's as easy a job as it seems it's going to be.  I'm guessing getting the old stuff off is going to be more difficult than putting the new stuff on.  I'll also have a look as much as I can at the subframe mounting point since while I'm sure it's perfectly okay, it doesn't hurt to make extra sure while I'm under there.  How much are we betting it'll chuck it down on the weekend when I attempt it?

[Cooper1]

Fookin love this thread.. 

 

Just sayin..  

[Noel Tidybeard]

oh yes just be carefull when you go to adjust the throttle cable the the clip doesn't ping off into the engine bay

 

 

 

[Zelandeth]

Hah...guess why my TD Xantia initially had the undertray removed...yep...that sodding clip!

[vulgalour]

Thanks for the warning*

[vulgalour]

Right then, let's have a look at sorting these boots out before I have to go to work.  Up we go.

Nice tall axle stands gave me loads of access to see what I was doing for this.  I wanted to try and find out what exactly was leaking.  All the solid pipes and unions are bone dry, the only LHM is on the rubber bits of the boot and the parts of the suspension arm that hang down.  A bit of a squish of the boots revealed a lot of splits and cracks so I'm confident the leak on this side is just the fact that the boot has given up.  It's otherwise pretty tidy under here, there's a bit of surface corrosion here and there and it would certainly benefit from a good degrease and a splosh of underseal to keep things nice, which I shall do at a future date.

It had been suggested the boots can come off without removing the sphere.  I'm jiggered if I can work out how you do that.  Happily, the boot clamp on both sides unfastened with no resistance so at least I know they're not going to fight me when I do replace the boots.  I don't have replacement spheres or new o-rings for the old spheres so I left the job at that for today.  This is the side that's leaking occasionally, it's mostly getting past the outlets that go to the plastic lines, and the splits at the other end of the suspension unit to the displacer sphere, there's no wetness above the boot or displacer and there's no sign of any LHM being sprayed out at high pressure.

Now I'm wondering if it might be worth just doing the spheres at the same time.  The ride is perfectly fine, I've no reason to suspect the rear spheres need replacing, it just feels like it makes sense to do it while I'm in here.

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

4 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Right then, let's have a look at sorting these boots out before I have to go to work.  Up we go.

Bloody hell when I first glanced at the picture I thought something had gone seriously wrong with the hydropneumatic suspension or you found some hidden setting or something LOL

 

been enjoying the thread very much keep up the good work  

[Cleon-Fonte]

5 hours ago, vulgalour said:

It had been suggested the boots can come off without removing the sphere.  I'm jiggered if I can work out how you do that.

 

Pull clip holding suspension cylinder to suspension arm, cylinder separates from arm, remove and replace boot, then return clip to suspension cylinder. Job done.

Even if you remove the sphere it looks like it'd be a nightmare to remove it the other way.

[mat_the_cat]

4 hours ago, Cleon-Fonte said:

 

Pull clip holding suspension cylinder to suspension arm, cylinder separates from arm, remove and replace boot, then return clip to suspension cylinder. Job done.

Even if you remove the sphere it looks like it'd be a nightmare to remove it the other way.

This. You'd never get the small end of the boot over the cylinder anyway! The plastic pipe is only to return the small amount of LHM which passes the cylinder seal (for lubrication), so if this is excessive it could suggest either a damaged seal in the cylinder and/or a poor sealing surface on the piston. A supple new boot may well seal better, and cure the problem so wouldn't worry yet!

It's not good practice, but I've replaced spheres without a new O ring before and had no leaks. The rear ones can be a bugger to get off though, and would say that you'll be lucky with just a chain wrench. I'd leave alone until needed...

[vulgalour]

I must have missed where that clip is.  I removed the only clip I could see when I was under the car which was at the end of the rod that sticks out of the displacer which, it appears, is supposed to hold the skinny end of the boot (it doesn't on either side of the car).  That didn't help me at all.  I'm assuming the clip is somewhere at the displacer end?  I've probably looked right at it and just didn't recognise it as a clip.

[mat_the_cat]

8 hours ago, vulgalour said:

I removed the only clip I could see when I was under the car which was at the end of the rod that sticks out of the displacer which, it appears, is supposed to hold the skinny end of the boot

Sounds like you removed the right clip - kind of like an R clip going through the suspension arm, into the rod, then back through the suspension arm.

The rod often seizes into the cup on the suspension arm, but usually a good waggle will free it.

[vulgalour]

Right then, loads of useful tips and info were got since the last post on various fora so today I felt I could have another go at this job.  It's not actually too terrible a job apart from one bit of it, we'll come to that momentarily.  The job is, of course, changing the rear suspension boots.  Fairly simple on the face of it since you've only actually got to disconnect 4 items, and one of them isn't the suspension sphere/displacer.

I had got differing information from owners, manuals, and online guides on how to do this job and expected to have to remove the suspension sphere, happily this isn't the case.  The problem I was addressing is that the boot on the driver's side particularly was leaking from various splits and cracks in the rubber.  The passenger side one had been gummed up with sealant in the past.  The first job is to undo the boot clamp, fortunately both boot clamps on my car weren't rusted solid and undid really easily.  Likewise the retaining clip at the other end which just pulls out (the passenger side one was in much better condition).  The bit I was getting stuck with was getting the long rod out of the cup it pushes into on the suspension arm, with gentle application of a bolster chisel and hammer, I got it unseated and then the rod, boot, and clamp could all be wiggled free.  Happily, all the bits that need to not be rusty looked nice and rust free and while there was some evidence of moisture ingress here, it wasn't severe enough to have done more than turn the LHM a bit brown.

On the rod, the hole is what the retaining clip pushes through to hold it in place, with the conical section sitting in a cup on the suspension arm on the car.  The conical portion gets stuck sometimes, so by giving it a tap on any of the ridged section, putting the force back towards the displacer rather than trying to rotate this part in its housing, it comes unstuck and you can remove it.

It was in pretty good shape too and I gave it a good clean before reinstalling so I didn't introduce any unwanted grit or dirt into the system.  Cleanliness is vital with the LHM system and another reason for me wanting to do these boots since they make sure everything stays clean.  The old boot on the driver's side was much worse when removed than it looked on the car, even without squishing it to expose all the cracks and splits you could still see some fairly serious ones.

Then I came unstuck.  To fit the new boot I need to get the rod seated properly in it.  Standing the rod on a cloth to protect it from damage, I slid the boot over the conical end and, with a good amount of force, got the boot almost fully seated.  The issue then was I didn't have enough hands to pull the boot down and ease out the tiny collar into the recess it needs to sit in so had to employ the other half to pull down on the boot while I extremely carefully used a flat bladed screwdriver to ease the small collar of the boot into place.  I had tried to do the boot various different ways and this was the only approach I found that worked and it was the only difficult part of the whole job.  On the passenger side I learned that if you do a little bit of forward planning you can line up the outlets for the return hoses with the hole for the retaining clip so it's easier to install back on the car... I learned that after getting the driver's side one slightly out of alignment.

Installing is a case of wiggling the whole thing back into place, being sure to keep the hose clamp on the boot as you feed everything in because once the rod is in place you cannot get the clamp in.  Also remember to put one of the outlet stubs through between the two wires of the clamp.  A bit of gentle persuasion gets the big end of the boot to seal over the large metal collar before tightening the clamp.  For the return hoses, I found them easier to locate by gripping them with some blunt nose pliers, any amount of LHM on anything was just making the plastic and rubber impossible to manipulate otherwise.  Then slot the rod back into it's cup and finegle it round so the R clip can be pushed home.  Job done.  Then repeat the whole thing on the passenger side.  The boot on the passenger side wasn't leaking but had been gummed up in places with black sealant so presumably was leaking at some point, it was also in far better condition than the passenger side one and the LHM inside the boot was much greener and more copious so clearly this side the boot was doing its job properly.

With the boots installed, I wiped away any fluid and loose dirt and watched to see if anything reappeared.  Initial signs are promising.

Ran the car for a little while, put it back in its usual spot, and so far there's been no reappearance of any LHM so I'm cautiously optimistic about that.  I know I've cured at least some of the LHM leak on the driver's side now and if it turns out the displacer seal or sealing face is damaged and leaking, we'll soon find out.  Initial signs are quite promising.  As soon as the new clamps arrive I can get the new hose fitted properly and hopefully that'll be an end of the air ingress into the fuel system and will mark the curing of all the known issues on the car.

[vulgalour]

Was at a loose end so did another job on the BX, this time fitting the new front bumper trims.  I can see why the ears pop off, they don't fit particularly well and glue wouldn't improve that.  Still, it's nice looking now than it was with the missing ears and the dull, split, grey trims that were on there.

[vulgalour]

New clamps arrived today so I could get the new hose fitted to replace the clear stuff.

The new clamps are those that have an offset bolt, rather than the worm-drive type that was on there.  I added a clamp to the return hose too though I'm not sure that will make any difference.  Gave the car a couple of starts with rests in between and it seems much more willing to start, it also seems to idle a little more evenly.  Hopefully this has cured the air ingress issue.  Checked under the back of the car and am pleased to report there's no sign of fresh LHM leaking out.  At the moment that means all of the outstanding running issues on the BX are fixed.  Cosmetic fettling will be next, there's a few blemishes on the bodywork I'd like to have sorted while they are just blemishes, and I'm hunting for a few plastic trim items.

In fact, here's what I'm after on this car:

• Non-faded seats in the correct grey tweed
• Better quality grey carpet
• Grey grab handles/arm rests
• Passenger side interior A pillar trim
• Passenger side interior lower B pillar trim
• Passenger side interior C pillar trim
• Passenger front door seal
• Headlining, non-sunroof type
• Headlight protectors
• Door handle scratch protectors
• Headlight adjusters, the round threaded plastic part that the adjuster rod screws into

Any period Citroen original accessories would be neat too.  My goal with this car is still to keep it factory and any additions made to it are in period and, ideally, actual Citroen options.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

38 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

.....Any period Citroen original accessories would be neat too.  My goal with this car is still to keep it factory and any additions made to it are in period and, ideally, actual Citroen options.

If you're on Farcebook, you could put the feelers out on the Citroen Car Club UK page. Or any of the BX groups.

[vulgalour]

I am not on the book of faeces.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

I am not on the book of faeces.

Ah. Never mind. 'twas just a thought.

[vulgalour]

Had a nosey underneath the BX after tidying away the gardening tools.  Slightly disappointed to see LHM weeping from the displacer union, presumably where it screws in since that's where the LHM looks to be collecting.  The boot itself is nice and LHM-tight and there's only the tiniest spot of LHM on the floor, this is after 5 days of the car being sat idle which is when it leaks the most.  Previously, it was leaving a much more obvious puddle at rest.  The issue was also intermittent previously, it seems to stop leaking when the suspension is under pressure, it only leaks when it's depressurised, so I assume whatever damage there is on the sealing surface is getting filled by the rubber o ring when the system is under pressure.

Slightly disappointing that one.  At best I will need to fit a new o-ring, at worst it's going to need a new one of the bits the displacer screws into and possible new displacers.  At least I can now see the issue since replacing the boots.

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

?becos french! ?

[mat_the_cat]

6 hours ago, vulgalour said:

 it seems to stop leaking when the suspension is under pressure, it only leaks when it's depressurised, so I assume whatever damage there is on the sealing surface is getting filled by the rubber o ring when the system is under pressure.

The O rings are on the inside of the aluminium cylinder on the left, sealing against the piston in the middle. If this is corroded at the point where the O ring sits whilst the car is in low, this could cause seepage. Assuming the sealing surface is good on the area used at normal height, the leak will disappear.

[robinmasters]

If you do decide to replace the spheres, I've got a removal tool-happy to lend, hopefully we can rearrange the Kent meet when we're allowed out again. 

[vulgalour]

@mat_the_cat I'm going to have to get it apart to find out aren't I?  I shall make use of @robinmasters offer of that removal tool once we're allowed out to play again.  I bet the boot having failed is what's caused any corrosion too since it was definitely letting some moisture in and some LHM out, which isn't ideal.

[mat_the_cat]

Afraid so, although at least all the fixings will be free. I don't know if there is a source for new pistons, but if they do prove to be the problem then maybe Chevronics would be able to supply second hand.

It's been more common at least in my experience, for the outer wall of the cylinder to corrode through - with hindsight I'd have retained the pistons as spares!

[vulgalour]

Had to do an essential run in the BX, first time I've taken a car out in a month.  It was a bit slow to fire up, which I expected given the time it's been sat idle, and was then fine until heading home.  At one junction while waiting for a gap in the traffic the idle started dropping and then, when I tried to set off, the car just stalled.  Fired up no bother and we carried on until a couple of junctions later when it tried to do it again.  Did it a third time when I stopped so I could three-point-turn into the drive.  Perplexed, I had a look under the bonnet for leaks both with the car running and at idle and couldn't find anything.  I also couldn't get the car to repeat this stalling trick.

Could it be residual air working out of the system?  Could it be another problem?  Is this a thing they do when they've been stood a while?  Answers on a postcard, please.