The infamous £500+ tax bracket... bargains to be had

[Lanciaman]

My 56 plate Outback 3.0 is the daft tax but monthly I can pretend it's not too bad. I justify it by the fact it has no turbo to go wrong, no dmf, No dpf. No cambelt. So the extra 20 quid a month is peanuts compared to all the shite that can and usually does go bang on diesels.

[The Moog]

Welcome back

[robinmasters]

People really consider this?

 

- Can I afford purchase price?

 

- Monthly cost-worry about it when it happens.

[Dan_ZTT]

People really consider this?

 

- Can I afford purchase price?

 

- Monthly cost-worry about it when it happens.

Consider it? 100% yes

 

Ignore logic and buy car anyway? probably also yes

 

In seriousness though, if buying in the sub-£2k bracket and intending to use for a while then purchase price is probably the LEAST important thing to think about. e.g. my MG was £750 six months ago but has already cost more than the same again in parts & tax, not even including fuel. Didn't stop me buying it obviously, money's not always the key factor, but it's still worth thinking about.

[Guest Hooli]

I won't consider a car in this tax bracket as I object to paying large amounts of money out for nothing in return.

[GeordieInExile]

I got around the high tax bands by simply buying a car that's taxed according to the old rules. Mmmm, savings.

[Dirk Diggler]

https://m.carzone.ie/index.cfm?fuseaction=newsDesc&newsId=1437

 

What are you all complaining about?! Motor tax rates in Ireland are in many cases multiples of the UK; and the depreciation for larger engined cars is even more pronounced

 

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-rx400-hybrid-for-sale-tax-and-nct-great-cond/19262165 - €2700 - tax €1809 a year, €500 a quarter, no monthly dd option

[stephen01]

High tax isn't so painful now it can be done monthly by direct debit. Just becomes yet another monthly payment that comes out.

 

I hate paying stuff on Direct Debit, It just seems we are slowly being bleed of our monthly income in DD's 

 

Phone

TV

Water

Gas

Electric

Council Tax

Insurance

Car

Morgtage /  rent Etc etc etc and now car tax*

 

As for bargains to be had, £500 RFL is just stupid, the rules are a mess, they fucked about with it for years and now it's been reverted back to a slightly simpler costings. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables 

 

I've not purchased cars because of high tax costs, when you start adding up the costs you're getting close to being cheaper going down the new car route. 3 years rinse repeat.  

[Datsuncog]

What are you all complaining about?! Motor tax rates in Ireland are in many cases multiples of the UK; and the depreciation for larger engined cars is even more pronounced

 

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-rx400-hybrid-for-sale-tax-and-nct-great-cond/19262165 - €2700

 

Indeed. I ended up with my XM 2.5TD because the Derry-based owner had moved over the border and couldn't afford to tax and re-register the bugger.

 

Still, even with this I don't think the UK does too badly - tax rates in the Republic of Ireland are absolutely terrifying, and it does seem to be cutting a swathe through the stock of older/interesting cars.

 

When friends in ROI tell me what they're paying for even basic boxes, it's quite scary.

 

I hate paying stuff on Direct Debit, It just seems we are slowly being bleed of our monthly income in DD's 

 

Very true. I'm trying to prune all mine right back and save for stuff in advance, as I'm sick of feeling like my bank account has more holes in it than a Renault 16 floorpan. I tend to save bits and pieces onto a Post Office Budget Card to cover VED.

[R9UKE]

Welcome back

 

 

Thanks buddy!

 

And yes, totally agreed on the noting to moan about.  My aunt is paying €780 to tax a 2007 1.6 Scenic in Dublin.  I also brought an earlier Laguna V6 to this side of the border a few years back as it's annual tax was €1890.

 

Lanciaman - got it in one.  Basically my whole justification for avoiding diesels completely, and it makes perfect sense.  With none of that extra bollocks that ALWAYS fecks up at some point, a little more in fuel costs and tax makes perfect sense.

[sierraman]

I won't consider a car in this tax bracket as I object to paying large amounts of money out for fundamentally very unappealing cars like Daewoo Tacumas

EFA

[pandamonium]

I love the Daweoo Tacuma.

 

I had one that was pre 2001 taxation, was just a mk3 Cavalier in a fat suit.

 

I'd consider one now, but would have to be stupidly cheap to buy.

[SierraMikeHotel]

I won't consider a car in this tax bracket as I object to paying large amounts of money out for nothing in return.

So you've never been to school, been to a doctor, used a library, used a product designed by someone who was educated at a public university? I don't think so...

[Guest Hooli]

So you've never been to school, been to a doctor, used a library, used a product designed by someone who was educated at a public university? I don't think so...

 

Yeah yeah, I still think of car tax as car tax so should be going on car things. Otherwise there is no justification for it & until they maintain the roads properly etc I'll think I get nothing for what's paid in car tax.

[SierraMikeHotel]

Roads are (not) maintained out of your council tax.

[Guest Hooli]

And income tax for the trunk roads as far as I'm aware.

[Captain Furious]

Another one in agreement here, the current system is somewhat daft. 1p a litre would more than cover it, especially when you consider the £££ saved from reduced bureaucracy, and more importantly it's the only way to fairly tax emissions. With the fluctuations in fuel price people would barely notice the difference anyway.

 

If I was in charge, etc, etc

 

 

Someone on either penisheads or the blue forum did the math once and it wasn't the insignificant couple of pence a litre that you might imagine, it was a significant amount.  So no, I am not on board with this idea at all! 

 

Agree on the fluctuations of fuel prices though, wtf is up with that?  There are garages within a couple of miles of each other charging up to 10p a litre difference, that's 45p a gallon.  How is this possible, when I first passed my test the price of fuel was constant until some other force acted upon it, ie a fuel duty increase or the price of oil.  It would remain constant for months.  Now it seems to be made up at will.

[Guest Hooli]

Someone on either penisheads or the blue forum did the math once and it wasn't the insignificant couple of pence a litre that you might imagine, it was a significant amount.  So no, I am not on board with this idea at all! 

 

Lets work it out, have you all got your exercise books ready? Then we'll begin.

 

10k a year at 35mpg uses 285.71 gallons.

4.546 ltr per gallon gives 1298.86ltrs of fuel used a year.

 

Typical tax cost per year of £255 divided by litres used gives an increase of 19.63p per ltr.

 

 

 

I didn't think it'd be that much either.

[Guest Hooli]

A thought has just occurred to us discussing this in the office, how would free disabled tax work if it was on fuel?

[garethj]

Lets work it out, have you all got your exercise books ready? Then we'll begin.

 

10k a year at 35mpg uses 285.71 gallons.

4.546 ltr per gallon gives 1298.86ltrs of fuel used a year.

 

Typical tax cost per year of £255 divided by litres used gives an increase of 19.63p per ltr.

 

 

 

I didn't think it'd be that much either.

That’s going to please all the people who have bought cars over the last couple of years because they’re £30 a year to tax

[Datsuncog]

Agree on the fluctuations of fuel prices though, wtf is up with that?  There are garages within a couple of miles of each other charging up to 10p a litre difference, that's 45p a gallon.  How is this possible, when I first passed my test the price of fuel was constant until some other force acted upon it, ie a fuel duty increase or the price of oil.  It would remain constant for months.  Now it seems to be made up at will.

 

By my understanding, fuel companies (as wells as large haulage and public transport operators) often hedge by agreeing a fixed price at which to buy their fuel stock well in advance, which - depending on the global oil prices and currency markets, political instability and what-have-you, swings quite considerably day by day - can cushion them nicely against unforeseen spikes, or knacker them by locking them into buying fuel at well over the current market spot rate.

 

Effectively, it's gambling.

 

So the variation in pump prices may well reflect the prevailing market rate on the day the deal was struck by that particular supplier - hence BP maybe having a better deal going than Shell on one particular day, then vice-versa the next week. We've pumps locally that can sometimes be quite a bit cheaper than others, and then at other times quite a bit dearer.

 

Also - as alluded to in yesterday's Red Diesel thread discussion - some retailers are more open than others to, ahem, the concept of acquiring their fuel from local entrepreneurs*...

[rainagain]

Someone on either penisheads or the blue forum did the math once and it wasn't the insignificant couple of pence a litre that you might imagine, it was a significant amount. So no, I am not on board with this idea at all!

 

Agree on the fluctuations of fuel prices though, wtf is up with that? There are garages within a couple of miles of each other charging up to 10p a litre difference, that's 45p a gallon. How is this possible, when I first passed my test the price of fuel was constant until some other force acted upon it, ie a fuel duty increase or the price of oil. It would remain constant for months. Now it seems to be made up at will.

I had a crack at it last year on here:

 

from: http://www.ukpia.com...y-overview.aspx

the UK uses 44,530,000,000 litres of petrol and diesel a year

 

from: https://www.theguard...xcise-duty-dvla

the uk collected £5,870,000,000 pounds a year in road fund licence

 

If we take the money collected and divide it by the number of litres we get £0.13 per litre. Where I stay fuel has increased more than this in the last six months and life has continued as normal.

 

In practice this 13p extra would be less as you will also catch those who don't currently pay towards the DVLA this includes tax dodgers and also vehicles operating in the country on foreign plates as they have to buy fuel. Plus you will no longer have the overhead of however many people are employed to administer the current system.

 

It would be a fair system the amount you pay is directly related to the amount you pollute.

[uk_senator]

As someone who`s currently taxing 7 pre-2001 cars (4 above 1550cc) direct debt, I have to disagree.. None of them are in the stratospheric league, but still, its killing me slowly.... 
 

High tax isn't so painful now it can be done monthly by direct debit. Just becomes yet another monthly payment that comes out.

[Tamworthbay]

I hate paying stuff on Direct Debit, It just seems we are slowly being bleed of our monthly income in DD's 

 

Phone

TV

Water

Gas

Electric

Council Tax

Insurance

Car

Morgtage /  rent Etc etc etc and now car tax*

 

As for bargains to be had, £500 RFL is just stupid, the rules are a mess, they fucked about with it for years and now it's been reverted back to a slightly simpler costings. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables 

 

I've not purchased cars because of high tax costs, when you start adding up the costs you're getting close to being cheaper going down the new car route. 3 years rinse repeat.

 

They were doing Vivas around here last year for £99 a month with £30 a year tax, so only £60 more for new car than just the tax on these. Then add in fuel consumption and a lot of that £60 disappears. So it comes down to cars that people are happy to pay a premium to drive. Some on here I might, most I wouldn’t.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

I had a crack at it last year on here:

 

from: http://www.ukpia.com...y-overview.aspx

the UK uses 44,530,000,000 litres of petrol and diesel a year

 

from: https://www.theguard...xcise-duty-dvla

the uk collected £5,870,000,000 pounds a year in road fund licence

 

If we take the money collected and divide it by the number of litres we get £0.13 per litre. Where I stay fuel has increased more than this in the last six months and life has continued as normal.

 

In practice this 13p extra would be less as you will also catch those who don't currently pay towards the DVLA this includes tax dodgers and also vehicles operating in the country on foreign plates as they have to buy fuel. Plus you will no longer have the overhead of however many people are employed to administer the current system.

 

It would be a fair system the amount you pay is directly related to the amount you pollute.

This times a million. Its such a simple thing to implement, you could do it overnight if you really wanted.

 

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[Daviemck2006]

This times a million. Its such a simple thing to implement, you could do it overnight if you really wanted.

 

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I would be happy with road tax being put on fuel. I own a peugeot 407 coupe 2.7 hdi, but I am registered disabled so I dont pay the road tax on it, and I have a veg oil xantia 1.9td. That would make the road tax on it free too

 

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[cort1977]

While putting all the tax on fuel is attractive from a user pays perspective but it would be regressive, putting more burden on the poorest. The old banding system based on cc was at least slightly progressive. The current system is built on sand anyway as we now know these co2 figures are highly suspect.

 

Fwiw i reckon we should tax corporations and high earners, more direct taxes and fewer indirect taxes.

[rainagain]

Fwiw i reckon we should tax corporations and high earners, more direct taxes and fewer indirect taxes.

 

This country is terrible for indirect taxes, things like tax on insurance, regardless of your income bracket in general we all pay about the same for car insurance so this is an unfair tax. There's plenty more examples:

 

from: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lowest-earners-more-tax-richest-office-national-statistics-inequality-council-tax-vat-equality-trust-a7704331.html

 

"Council tax and VAT were found to hit the poorest households particularly hard. Low earners pay an average of seven per cent of their income in council tax while the wealthiest households pay just 1.5 per cent. 

A similar trend applies to VAT, on which the poor pay 12.5 per cent of their income while the rich pay five per cent."

 

Sadly the country still hasn't woken up to this so it will continue to line the pockets of the rich with money from the poor.

[New POD]

My dad often bemoans "high" tax costs on certain cars, until I have to remind him that it's not so much when you see how much he spends on fuel, on maintenance and repairs, insurance etc - get the right bargain and that extra couple of hundred quid is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the savings to be had overall

Just think cost per mile.

 

If insurance tax and depreciation is 1000 quid a year and you do 10k a year that's 10p.

 

If you buy a car with zero tax and 1800 quid a year depreciation and insurance of 200 quid that becomes 20p a mile

 

obviously ignoring fuel and repairs

[Exiled_Tat_Gatherer]

I'm off 'over here' so an observer..... but to me, the addition on the fuel price would, as said, catch the interlopers and well known tax avoiding individuals who deliberately do not pay up like they should. The amount of foriegn registered vehicles using the roads and the amount of road-tax dodging dickheads would be all-encompassed with this relatively simply implemented, change.

 

You have to pay to play for absolutely everything else in life - so why not pay to use the roads you're driving on - with no option to avoid the cost available...... of course I'm ignoring the fact that you may* increase the number of petrol/diesel thefts from forecourts and other sources..... 

 

The reduction in admin - chasing - attempting to prosecute - VED dodgers.... should actually be a fairly hefty contribution.

 

Probably talking out of my arse though - as per......