Ford Mondeo is at an end?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Everything is about a ‘brand’ now, it’s all about what it says not what it does. People won’t settle for something good, they’re not actually bothered in fact whether it’s any good or not, it could be complete junk like a 3 series but so long as it says ‘look at me, I’m incredibly successful’ that’s what matters. The irony is most of the people driving about in ‘A premium brand’ aren’t usually very successful, either professionally or personally.

 

Someone asked me the other day about creating my ‘brand’. I told them not to be so fucking arrogant.

 

 

A new 3 Series is anything but junk. It's a very nice car, as is an A4 or a C Class. For about the same monthly payments as a Mondeo, you can buy a 'premium' car from a nice plate glass dealership and not an establishment that resembles an armpit, staffed by short sleeved blokes calling you 'pal'.

 

The power of branding and presentation. Germany 1, Ford 0.

[Schaefft]

Why?

 

I'd rather have a comfortable (and more spacious) Mondeo than some base spec BM/Merc/Audi thing.  The front/rear drive thing is largely irrelevant except on track days - most of the time you can't (and shouldn't)  drive quickly enough on public roads to exploit it - and the ESP stuff now makes it largely irrelevant.  I'd also rather have the Mondeo in OMG snow chaos.  The residual value argument for BMWs etc is generally bollocks too as the thousands over the list that the first owner almost always pays for options is never taken into account - and it's generally for stuff that would be standard on the Mondeo.

 

In my particular case at this point in time: Most BMW/Audi/Mercedes midsizers are fairly well equipped in the UK, even in company car spec. Combine that with huge depreciation for them within a year, and I would go for a comparably priced (to a new Mondeo) C-class with the best engine and options I can find for the money, Im sure there will be one around. Even if Fords and Opels/Vauxhauls are nicely equipped cars nowadays, you still fell the difference in interior quality and driving dynamics if you go for the right trim/model for your BMW/Mercedes/Audi. Does Ford or Vauxhaul even offer a 200hp+ engine in the Mondeo anymore?

 

EDIT: Okay they do with the 2.0 Ecoboost, which does 0-62 in 7.9s. Thats pathetic for a flagship car in 2018.

[face]

Without being sexist (which I am absolutely not) I think the bulk of SUV demand is driven by the mothers of young families. I'm sure in lots of cases the dads just go along with it, but often would not choose such a vehicle themselves.

 

High driving position and illusion of space and safety is a key factor.

I understand that they look like a big and safe family car, so can see why they are so appealing.

[mk2_craig]

Without being sexist (which I am absolutely not) I think the bulk of SUV demand is driven by the mothers of young families. I'm sure in lots of cases the dads just go along with it, but often would not choose such a vehicle themselves.

Word

[HMC]

It’s an odd thing, as there’s this perceived exclusivity from bmw/merc yet as the SMMT figures attest, having a 3 series is not very exclusive at all; it’s a triumph of marketing and the brand. This isn’t a criticism; it’s very impressive and fair play to them.

[doubleyeller]

Well in all honesty, if you were in the market for a Mondeo, why would you not save yourself half your money (at least ) and buy a Dacia Logan? Classless, spacious and reliable - what's not to like?

[83C]

A new 3 Series is anything but junk. It's a very nice car, as is an A4 or a C Class. For about the same monthly payments as a Mondeo, you can buy a 'premium' car from a nice plate glass dealership and not an establishment that resembles an armpit, staffed by short sleeved blokes calling you 'pal'.

 

The power of branding and presentation. Germany 1, Ford 0.

 

 

This. Very much this. 

 

Over the last couple of years I've had cause to go in several dealerships, usually to collect trade vehicles for a family friend. Aside from one bad experience at a Mercedes dealer in Bishops Stortford, the dealers selling 'premium' brands are much better at presentation, even though I'm just collecting a trade-in. BMW in particular seem to know exactly how to get it right, I've wandered in for £5's worth of parts before now looking a proper scruffbag and they've still treated me to a drink brought to my seat, sometimes a polite but not 'keen' enquiry as to whether I'm considering a new car, and smart service without feeling hurried. The Peugeot dealer I collected a car from made me feel like an inconvenience, and the Ford dealer clearly regarded anyone who wasn't a fleet manager as major irritations to their business.

 

I've just bought a 7 year old 5-series, I could have bought for the same money a much newer Mondeo or a similar age one for much less, but I wanted the 5. Nothing to do with badge snobbery, and I couldn't care less what other folk think of me. I do like the Mondeo, and a 4-yr old one would have been easily affordable with my budget, but I just didn't want one. I've had Mk1 & Mk3 Mondeos, all very competent cars, but I can't get excited over driving one. The 5 is a much better drivers car.

[sierraman]

A new 3 Series is anything but junk. It's a very nice car, as is an A4 or a C Class. For about the same monthly payments as a Mondeo, you can buy a 'premium' car from a nice plate glass dealership and not an establishment that resembles an armpit, staffed by short sleeved blokes calling you 'pal'.

 

The power of branding and presentation. Germany 1, Ford 0.

I’m not sure I get that impression from the amount of them I see sat on the hard shoulder or the post on ‘Unfit for Purpose’.

[Wack]

The Germans seem to be able to pull off the "halo" effect nowadays that Ford was so good at in the '70s. So Mr. Buyer goes to his local BMW dealership with dreams of an M5 to find his budget stretches to a 316 with none of the options boxes ticked.

You're not wrong about Ford , I wonder how many 1.3 Capri's they sold for every 3 litre

 

It looked sporty but I just looked up some numbers for the 1300 LC crossflow, a whopping 50bhp , 0-60 of 23.2s and 85mph top speed , that must've been embarrassing

[AMC Rebel]

 

 

EDIT: Okay they do with the 2.0 Ecoboost, which does 0-62 in 7.9s. Thats pathetic for a flagship car in 2018.

 

OK, I am officially old fashioned - that looks fairly respectable to me - certainly for a daily driver.

[AnthonyG]

As soon as I read that the Fusion (the Mondeo's sister in the US) was not to be replaced, I thought it would be over for the Mondeo as sales in the whole of Europe were 55,800 last year. Add the Galaxy and the S-Max and I doubt they are doing anything over 200,000 sales a year, which is not great for an entire platform.

 

The problem is not just the Mondeo, its that Ford also have a ridiculous cost base in Europe for a non-premium brand, with two volume vehicles produced in Germany, the highest cost location in the EU (apart from perhaps Scandinavia) with the strongest unions.  The Fiesta is produced in Cologne and the Focus is produced in Saarlouis. One of these must be due for the bullet and more production will move to Valencia to full the space left by the end of the Mondeo.  The Bridgend engine plant must also be in serious danger of closure, as it mainly made engines for other brands (JLR and ?possibly Volvo?) neither of which are required any more. 

 

The Mondeo has lasted a long time as a nameplate (27 years if it ends in 2020) but all good things must come to an end.  

 

It's demise may be positive news for the Insignia, as that's the last man standing as a 'volume' brand big saloon/hatch. I guess the next one will be on the same platform as the new 508, which looks very smart but I doubt will sell more than 3000 units a year in the UK.

 

Compared to the 1980s/90s, the number of 'large' saloons available from non premium marques has dropped significantly, just from the Japanese the Primera, Accord, Galant/Carisma and Avensis have all gone, from the French I assume the Citroen C5 will not be replaced and you haven't been able to buy a Laguna in the UK since about 2012.

 

So its Mazda, Hyundai, Kia, Peugeot, Volvo, Jaguar, Alfa, Lexus and the Germans left in the game. 

[Pillock]

Maybe Ford were reading that Warren has bought an Ionic and figure that the entire Mondeo market is doomed.

[AnthonyG]

I suspect the Camry will be the new king of the minicabs, just as it has taken over from the Crown Vic in the States. 

[Bradders59]

I thought they stopped making Mundaneos years ago, which just goes to show how up to date I am on modern cars.

Anything with the new type reg plate from 2001 is almost too modern for me. 

[rantingYoof]

I’m not sure I get that impression from the amount of them I see sat on the hard shoulder or the post on ‘Unfit for Purpose’.

The thing is, even the ones with junk engines and poor life expectancy are probably nice cars when they work, which they generally do for the first three years and when they're making an impression.

 

BMW have perfected the small powerful diesel engine and the 'clean' larger six cylinder engines, and even if it's superficial the interiors look and feel classy to those who want that.

 

The fact that, despite the contents of the unfit for purpose thread, they remain popular shows that marketing and presentation IS far superior.

[Snipes]

Lol "perfected" !!

[junkyarddog]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-denies-reports-european-job-cuts-and-model-axings

 

Ford deny it.

 

I for one like the Mondeo,

I've had a Mk4 for the last 7 years.

I don't want an SUV,or a German"premium" brand,or a Japanese motor(for the time being)

It leaves me in a quandry as to what I will replace it with when the time comes.

Possibly a Mk5 Mondy,but they just don't seem as well built as the mk4.

Oh well,will cross that bridge when i come to it.

[rantingYoof]

They're not reliable, but they generally more powerful than the competition with good torque. Way back when, BMW had 2.0 diesels making 170hp when Vauxhall were piddling around with 2.2DTis that made 120hp and the Frenchists still had 90/110 and 130hp maps of a 1.9 turbo diesel.

 

We know what we like, and what stands the best chance at lasting the test of time. But in a (relatively) free market, as the significant majority of people will only drive it for 3yrs it only needs to function well for that length of time. If the majority of your money came from those who never experienced the downside of owning your car why would you focus on the relative few who got fed up trying to get timing chains replaced?

 

(I have no figures to hand to back up my indirect claim that more money comes from short-term leasing than longer term contracts or outright purchases - prepared to eat hat).

 

To me, if you strip it all down to its fundamental elements, the marketing approach has changed from convincing people of a marque's reliability and longevity as a long-term prospect to simply saying 'our car will be a better prospect then the competition for the length of your ownership'.

[Schaefft]

OK, I am officially old fashioned - that looks fairly respectable to me - certainly for a daily driver.

 

Yes, but this is pretty much as good as it'll ever get for the Mondeo. 95% of them will perform worse than that. In an age where a base model 320i/320d 3-series would drive circles around it. Just the fact that you can, even if you dont need to, is a huge selling point. Its just about giving people the impression that they can have everything they'd want, without much of a compromise. The perfect package, for a little more money than you'd have to pay for a Mondeo that needs try its absolutely best to keep up.

[fordperv]

You're not wrong about Ford , I wonder how many 1.3 Capri's they sold for every 3 litre

 

It looked sporty but I just looked up some numbers for the 1300 LC crossflow, a whopping 50bhp , 0-60 of 23.2s and 85mph top speed , that must've been embarrassing

They couldn't have sold any, everyone I seem to meet either had a 3.0 or a 2.8i back in the day

[sierraman]

Yes, but this is pretty much as good as it'll ever get for the Mondeo. 95% of them will perform worse than that. In an age where a base model 320i/320d 3-series would drive circles around it. Just the fact that you can, even if you dont need to, is a huge selling point. Its just about giving people the impression that they can have everything they'd want, without much of a compromise. The perfect package, for a little more money than you'd have to pay for a Mondeo that needs try its absolutely best to keep up.

What you are saying would have made sense in about 1995, 23 years on the BMW is not a quality product, it’s a facsimile on the quality the old cars had. If these cars are so reliable, such a quality product then why are none ever cabbed?

[AMC Rebel]

They couldn't have sold any, everyone I seem to meet either had a 3.0 or a 2.8i back in the day

 

My sister had a 1.3 and My Ma had a series of 1.6s

[AMC Rebel]

In an age where a base model 320i/320d 3-series would drive circles around it. 

 

Not sure it would in real world driving.  Most of the day-to-day "superior driving" I see is just aggressive rude driving reliant on others not to crash.  I don't doubt the BMW handles better at the ultimate limits - like on a track (although they struggled to beat some "non-premium" FWD drive cars in BTCC back in the day) but in day-to-day use there's nothing to choose - I've driven both and on an everyday drive there's no important difference.

 

Also I do think it's more about marketing - I think it may have been the same Top Gear that mentioned a survey suggested the vast majority of BMW buyers didn't even bother with a test drive - because it's not about about the drive for most, it's about the badge (or as the Reverend mentioned, not wanting to be called "pal" in the dealership).

[SiC]

What you are saying would have made sense in about 1995, 23 years on the BMW is not a quality product, it’s a facsimile on the quality the old cars had. If these cars are so reliable, such a quality product then why are none ever cabbed?

Why would you care about reliability if you're giving it back after 3 years when the warranty is finished? Even though they're not the most reliable of cars by any stretch nowadays, most can do the average 10k-12k p/a to 30k-36k without a hitch.

 

Only second hand owners care about it as it costs them money. But for BMW and the first owners, it just needs not to breakdown then.

[Marm Toastsmith]

Not a fan of the crossover SUV type thing, I can feel nothing but acute embarrassment at the thought of riding about in one. It just says to me ‘I’ve given up, I’m now waiting to waste away driving round in this massive blob from retail park to retail park then settle down in front of a television of an evening to watch brainless rubbish’

 

I used to feel the same...I said I'd never do it. But recently I decided I wanted a reliable (ideally Japanese), practical estate car - but looking around at shite (i.e turn of the millennium sub £1000) estates I realised there was less choice than there would have been 10 years ago. Mid-size cars just aren't as roomy as they used to be with all the bloat and safety nonsense. I just couldn't find anything I liked.

 

So I bought a MK1 Honda CR-V.

 

It's brilliant. It's got a huge amount of space, excellent visibility, it's very easy to drive, and even reasonably quick, and it fits into a smaller parking space than a Mondeo.

 

I get it...it's a good idea. The whole baby Range Rover type styling thing is stupid, but people liked it. But a tall boxy car with 4 wheel drive - why not? It makes sense once you've tried it...

 

Of course, it's not a car that's going to help you pick up women, but then, let's face it, neither is a Mondeo. That's why people buy mid-size Mercs and BMWs, and not Fords. For practicality though, the CR-V wins...It's arguably as definitive of the "crossover SUV type thing" as a Mondeo ought to be of what we used to call a "family car". Whether modern SUVs work as well as the CR-V does I don't know... but people seem to be buying them anyway.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I’m not sure I get that impression from the amount of them I see sat on the hard shoulder or the post on ‘Unfit for Purpose’.

New cars are new cars. New with warranty. 7 years hence? Not my problem.

[SiC]

I've yet to find any car that helps you pickup to the other sex. The closest has been my TT. Female friends/colleagues/wife friends that have travelled in it have more often than not given their admiration to it. Usually it is just another motor transport device.

 

(Could also be the first car in a while that I've owned that is remotely fashionable)

[Marm Toastsmith]

I've yet to find any car that helps you pickup to the other sex.

 

I'm not so sure...maybe you are buying the wrong kind of car?

 

But then I've always felt that having any kind of car at all helps make you more attractive to the opposite sex.

 

Anyway, I'm happily married with two kids now so its moot. The CR-V is fine. Now tell me why I bought that little Peugeot convertible?

[Braddon81]

Until the farcical situation of artificially propped 3yr lease / Pcp future values is nipped in the bud on Bmws Mercs and Audi etc the current status quo will be maintained and the likes of Ford etc will see their mid market share shrink ever further. A small hike in interest rates also might eventually make the general public think twice about heading for cars which if in the sence of the word in real terms they couldn't afford.

Were now in this very weird world where 'Premium Motors' regardless of their merits good or bad are now the high volume stack em high sell'em cheap cars for Jo public . Their makers now hell bent on volume purely on the basis of the fact that without that volume.. they'd be in deep trouble. I now find it fascinating that the old school volume car makers are now having to employ the previous business models of their up market rivals to stay in the game, smaller model ranges, lower volumes but based on a higher profit per unit approach. Who'd have thought that 25yrs on a Ford Mondeo would have an air of exclusivity amongst the Mercs and Bmws in the Tesco car park???

[warren t claim]

Maybe Ford were reading that Warren has bought an Ionic and figure that the entire Mondeo market is doomed.

Well I have had around 50 of them in various Mk 1, 2, 4 & 5 flavours. 

 

In their defence, until two months ago I'd never had a significant engine failure in any of them. Both petrol and diesel.

 

The Mk5 is a pretty decent mid-sized family car. The build quality matches premium brands and the driving dynamics certainly exceed them. 

 

Sadly Ford stopped making sexy, macho looking cars. Back in the day all Ford cars looked aggressive with just the addition of five and a half inch driving lamps. To answer an earlier post, I reckon Ford sold equal numbers of 1.3 and 3.0 Capris, it was the 1.6 and 2.0 four cylinder models that were volume sellers.