invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[D.E]

[wuvvum]

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

very interesting that the drawing appears to depict a steering wheel!....

It's Dolly in cartoon form!

[LightBulbFun]

  

16 hours ago, D.E said:

 

42 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

It's Dolly in cartoon form!

Almost, except thats an AC Acedes Model 67, not a Model 70  in-fact that drawing and the date given, further backs up evidence I had previously read about Graham hill having driven an AC Acedes Model 67, not a Model 70 like 99% of people seem to assume 

but so to see it has a steering wheel is *highly* unusual/very interesting, I very much wonder if any physical pictures from that particular event exist?

steering wheel Acedes are *extremely* unusual, it was only last year did I learn that it was even an "option" on the AC Acedes (soon after while investigating this, I was sent some further written information that metal bodied steering wheel Acedes also existed, although I have never seen a picture of one)

On 04/02/2024 at 23:20, LightBulbFun said:

Oh my, thats really fascinating! WPK146G is an AC Acedes Mk14A Model 67, but if we zoom in and "enhance" (the original high rez photos can be found here  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1417865325112347?multi_permalinks=3751600138405509 )

if I am not mistaken thats a steering wheel! I have *never* seen a full bodied Villiers machine equipped with a steering wheel before now! pretty much universally, they had an Invacar type Tiller control *sometimes* with the odd addtional foot pedal or 2

how I would love to have some more detailed interior shots of WPK146G, to see how it was all arranged exactly,  and what the rest of its controls where laid out, the accelerator brakes clutch gear change etc!

 

thank you very much for sharing these photos with me, its fun how new stuff like this is still coming out of the woodwork over 5 years sine this thread started  

all these special control Villiers machines where just that, one off specials, if you read the parts manual for any Villiers machine, it only ever mentions tiller control parts

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, D.E said:

Nice photo! not one I have seen before, although had a slight double take and wondered briefly if it was part of these 2 I had recently stumbled upon, obviously not the same, but similar in style  

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/posts/9157384420971105

and also along similar lines for completeness sake

 

[Tommyboy12]

I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere but saw this at the Ulster Transport Museum today

 

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, Tommyboy12 said:

I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere but saw this at the Ulster Transport Museum today

 

good to see WOI654 is still present  (I had heard they had re-organised things a while back, so im pleased to see its still on display etc)

[catsinthewelder]

I wouldn't take the accuracy of a cartoon drawing to heart,  he could have based it on a photo but might still have added details he expected to be there even though he couldn't see them (because they weren't there).

[Datsuncog]

17 hours ago, Tommyboy12 said:

I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere

All the way back on Page 16, would you believe!

Sad that they seem to have removed the information display board from behind WOI about drivers with disabilities; although the text on it was  very out of date and probably written when these 'new' transport galleries opened some 30 years ago (talking about drivers with orange badges, rather than the Blue Badge scheme). Glass barriers too, so you can't get up close to the cars anymore.

With any luck they might be putting together a new display - I know National Museums NI are pushing a big scheme called 'Reawakening' to reconfigure and reinterpret their collections at the Folk & Transport Museums, so here's hoping... and here's also hoping they remove those stupid acrylic 'RDS 1 TW' number plates and put a set of period-correct plates showing WOI654's actual registration!

[lesapandre]

Perhaps it's time for a well-judged letter?

[LightBulbFun]

5 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

and put a set of period-correct plates showing WOI654's actual registration!

and in true Autoshite fashion, from what I can tell that would be a set of Serck plates  

although data is a quite limited, as pictures of NI Model 70's are very rare, the very few NI Model 70's that survive only 1 has an original physical number plate still,  but from what I can tell from this  it seems Northern Ireland registered Model 70's used Serks computer-font plates of the pressed variety, (although im not sure if anyone is still doing those or not tho sadly)

which is quite interesting in itself, because I think Sercks had only just been introduced in about 1978 or there abouts (apologies to Stuart if I have got that date wrong ) 

 

so I do wonder what the earliest NI registered Model 70's used, for example KOI3637 and KOI4951, which predate the introduction of Serck's computer-font 

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Perhaps it's time for a well-judged letter?

Better: I'm trying to secure a volunteer position for maintaining their transport collection.

It's probably easier to try to do it myself, than go up against museum bureaucracy as an outsider!

[Datsuncog]

23 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I do wonder what the earliest NI registered Model 70's used, for example KOI3637 and KOI4951, which predate the introduction of Serck's computer-font 

I'd be interested too - Serck plates weren't a very common sight in NI, but I do remember seeing them on cars in period (usually Fords) - though the secretary at my primary school drove a gold Datsun Cherry N10 wearing Sercks, memorably - not too dissimilar to this Wikipedia reference pic.

(Any excuse for a pic of an N10 Cherry and Serck plates, hey?)

Could have been the more common separate plastic letters and digits on a reflective aluminium backplate, which is what the vast majority of 1970s cars seemed to wear in NI?

23 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Good to see another pic of Mary Boyce's Model 70 beside Conway Square in Newtownards!

The view hasn't really changed much in 40+ years:

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Better: I'm trying to secure a volunteer position for maintaining their transport collection.

It's probably easier to try to do it myself, than go up against museum bureaucracy as an outsider!

that would be Awesome

2 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Could have been the more common separate plastic letters and digits on a reflective aluminium backplate, which is what the vast majority of 1970s cars seemed to wear in NI?

its a good question, because of the different dynamics at play, given how NI Model 70's where not registered in large blocks vs english ones which were (where the cost of 200 or 400 number plates would probably be significant), but registered on a when and as needed, when issued to a user, basis, so was cost still a factor then, or just ease of availability

and for those wondering this difference in how English and NI Model 70's where issued came about, its because of how on the 1st of October 1974, England moved to the V5 scheme but NI stayed on the buff logbook scheme, so the Ministry could no longer freely just randomly pluck vehicles from blocks to issue to NI, as England and NI no longer shared a common registration system, but before then, the ministry did just issue vehicles completely centrally, hence why all the vehicles in this video have english marks despite it all being in Belfast

(this was going to be a more detailed writeup, but the fucking forum text editor, kept deleting the *whole* written post every time I did a simple undo action, and for some reason the redo function never fucking works)

 

 

speaking of Model 70's in NI, Fraser has *finally* sold VES108S (ex XEV88S) and it looks like thats gone off to someone in NI, hopefully its off to a good home!

[D.E]

Peekaboo @9:53:

I think I agree with one of the comments below this video, it seems a couple of years older than 1985. I didn't spot a single Sierra or Mk2 Cavalier...

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, D.E said:

Peekaboo @9:53:

I think I agree with one of the comments below this video, it seems a couple of years older than 1985. I didn't spot a single Sierra or Mk2 Cavalier...

NGO228D at the start of the video, shows no DVLA record so that dates the film to no later then about 1983 (unless NGO228D ended its days on a private plate)

 

Also the BSM Metro is on a W suffix plate, and I think they changed cars pretty frequently? 

 

[LightBulbFun]

I probably should save these photos for some special occiasion, page 500 of this thread or such, but they are so awesome and I am so very excited to see them etc that I just have to share them now  

an already very nice of photographs, but it gets *much* better

 

yes its actual pictures of Invacar Ltd's Model 70 production line! this is an extremely awesome set of photographs, as nothing like this for Invacar Model 70's has been seen before now, Stuarts got very good sets of pictures for earlier Invacar Machines, (which are for the big book before anyone asks!) but Invacar Model 70 stuff has been scant

so not only do these photos complement Stuarts set of photos very nicely, but also of course they are most fascinating to study and look at, its really interesting to see what the production line layout was like, and the general build up of how the cars where put together from bare chassis to complete car, and of course its very interesting to compare this to how AC did things

other things include confirmation that L suffix retro-reflective plated Invacar Model 70's did indeed use Hills number plates rather then the Hills number plates Invacar normally used (from the middle of 1967 onwards) and gives @quicksilver some picture proof for this question  

On 13/03/2019 at 14:22, quicksilver said:

EDIT: that raises an interesting question. How did the customisation for individual users fit with the building of large batches? Were they maybe all built without any controls and then fitted with the appropriate ones as and when they were issued to a recipient?

On 15/03/2019 at 20:02, LightBulbFun said:

oh and as for controls, they where all fully assembled on the production line, with some being built specifically for the first users needs,

and there are lots of other small little, and amusing details, for example I love the trade plate just hung on the wing mirror of BEV751L  

I really wonder if there are more photographs from where these came from? I extracted them from this news article here https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/25046038.thundersley-invacar-nostalgic-photos-step-back-time (which is apart from the photos is nothing special otherwise)

but I wonder many where taken in period/how many exist from the source the news article itself got them from?? I wonder why/what they where taken for in the first place back in 1973? but again its just so fascinating to see, this is how REV came together (well thats a question in itself, did the factory/production line setup change or evolve at all through out the Model 70 production run, would of it still looked like this when REV was being put together, I dont think it would of changed drastically, but by the time REV was being made there would of been the addtional steps of installing the rollover bar and headlining for example)

 

for point of comparison here is a picture of AC's Model 70 production line from about a year earlier in 1972 or there abouts

 

 

[plasticvandan]

It would have been the local paper,as such they will have archives of stuff like this.being a large local employer,they will have from time to time visited the factory or ran stories.fair bet they will have a lot more in their archives.in this instance could well have been something like invacar recieving a big order for their dhss contract. contact them.

[Mrs6C]

4 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

contact them.

^^^ This. Ask. Maybe the author of the feature could create an interesting  'follow-up' news feature from your enquiry. The contact details are here:

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/author/profile/17505.Emma_Palmer/

[wesacosa]

great pictures. I'm sure its been mentioned somewhere in these 480 pages already but what's on the site of the factory now, and any plans to take REV back there at some point @LightBulbFun?

[LightBulbFun]

30 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

great pictures. I'm sure its been mentioned somewhere in these 480 pages already but what's on the site of the factory now, and any plans to take REV back there at some point @LightBulbFun?

hah thats a bit of a trick question! since Invacar Ltd had many buildings around Manor trading estate in Benfleet Essex, so there was not 1 singular Factory so to speak, hence why there is some doubt as to if where @dollywobbler visited  with TWC was  actually the Model 70 production building (which im hoping the most recent photographs might help place)

but regardless of that it is the last direct-linage remnants of Invacar Ltd, by way of being occupied by Elmsleigh Invacar Ltd, so I do plan to visit there at some point in REV  

[lesapandre]

Interesting old sign too.

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of Invacar Model 70's, I roped my brother over here and had a go at bandaging up REV's holed exhaust down pipe

it appears REV had found a Tennis ball to play with!

I also had a look at REV's oil leakage situation, this is after just over a week of sitting

although weirdly the differential itself looks oddly dry, apart from the drops of oil on the bottoms, im *assuming* the oil is leaking out of the drive shaft entry points, but I cant see much in the way of wetness there

the engine does not seem so bad, but the relatively big splodge from under the differential is a bit concerning, especially as you cant just easily glug a bit more oil in to keep on top of it, not without having to crawl about un doing level plugs etc, speaking of that sort of thing tho, I did top up REV's main engine oil amount, twas looking a bit low on the dip stick, although its always a bit tricky to tell because of the camber in the road, REV's saggy spring and the chassis rail thats right in the way of the dip stick preventing you from properly pulling it out straight

 but onto the main task at hand the hole above! which as I thought had gotten a bit bigger (it sounded like it on my most recent drives) but some prodding/poking with a finger did not make it any bigger

so jacked up that side and went to work

and after *much* faffing about

got the hole bandaged and pasted up! obviously cant tell how well its worked until things have had a chance to set, but hopefully it works! that corner of the tinwork that was up against the pipe made things bloody faff combined with the fact the hole was just behind a Y joint, so I had to take a notch out of one side of the bandage so as to (hopefully) be able slide it along far enough, in true  Autoshite fashion, the down pipe could not of picked a worse place to have holed itself! but eventually managed to get some paste all around and over the hole, slide the bandage over, tighten it up to buggery and then slather the whole thing  in exhaust paste for good measure 

again remains to be seen if/how well it works, but I am hoping it does after all this faffing about with it! 

and then REV was pushed back into a parking spot, and we wrapped things up here as I was not in any state to do anything else! (again I was thinking maybe i'd get the chance to fit the headlight relay kit I keep mentioning on wanting to fit, but not this time!)

 

next planned outing is on the 6th of april to this gathering, so hopefully that will have given it plenty of time to set! https://autoshite.com/topic/62113-autoshite-south-east-meet-sun-6-april-2025-flower-farm-again-again

(although it will also be a bit of a trial by fire for the exhaust, since it will be a fair few miles of A2 and M25 high speed driving)

[captain_70s]

Whatever that is looks quite wet. Anything on that side that could leak and run down the diff casing?

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

next planned outing is on the 6th of april

Hoping to meet you then. Any tasks that shiters could assist with for REV (bearing in mind it's a commercial car park)?

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, captain_70s said:

Whatever that is looks quite wet. Anything on that side that could leak and run down the diff casing?

the differential drain plug and the chain case (which runs in the diff oil pool) is on that side

suppose next time Im tinkering I should whip the bathtub out and see if I can get a better look at things since thats how you get to the transmission side of things (which I have been meaning to do anyhow as I want to see how my belt and pulleys are doing after nearly 500 miles now)

 

as an aside on the "differential oil level plug" I am curious how exactly that works, does one just remove it and check there is oil on there, or will it have some or "min-max" marker on the end of it like a dip-stick? theres a fill plug for the diff on the topside, so I know the oil level plug is not also a fill plug, or is it a case of remove oil level plug, and just start filling the diff from the fill plug until oil starts pouring out of the level plug hole?

[plasticvandan]

Oil level could be the fill if there isn't another,but you insert the oil till it leaks out of the hole,then put the plug back.underside of the diff looks to be soaking with auto transmission fluid (reddish brown colour) looks like that is what's leaking.

Please snip off that excess jubilee clip next time you are under there,won't be a nice thing to catch your hand on.

[LightBulbFun]

56 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Oil level could be the fill if there isn't another,but you insert the oil till it leaks out of the hole,then put the plug back.underside of the diff looks to be soaking with auto transmission fluid (reddish brown colour) looks like that is what's leaking.

I hope its not ATF because its meant to be SAE90 or 90EP in there! but I am not sure what it is dripping from the diff in that regard, I have been told/heard that gear oil apparently has quite a strong smell to it? but when I stuck my finger into the drops and gave it a look/sniff, I could not smell anything from it at all go figure!

 

[lesapandre]

I'd get a tray and put under and monitor - to stop it getting on the road when parked up. A very little dripping can seem a lot - but most stuff of this era leaked oil - you only have to look at old photos. Just check the levels from time to time.

And the oil level plug was just that - when it was full it ran out. Different days really.

[High Jetter]

8 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have been told/heard that gear oil apparently has quite a strong smell to it?

Memories. Yes, it does, kinda sickly sweet iirc - but many years ago.

[Heidel_Kakao]

EP90 stinks like cat piss due to the sulphur in it, if you get any on your clothes you will know about it.