invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[AnnoyingPentium]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I wonder what kind of fuel consumption he gets on this? I'll assume it's incredibly good.

A billion MPGs, I imagine.

[RayMK]

@LightBulbFun Are you sure VAV1L is a three cylinder diesel?  I can't find any listing for a triple Kubota diesel engine of that capacity (500cc). Assuming it is not one of the numerous single cylinders options, shouldn't it be a twin?  The triple cylindered Kubota diesels range from 656cc to 1123cc.  Microcar and Aixam diesels with a Kubota unit are twins of around 500cc and also have CVT.  Does VAV1L use a re-purposed unit from one of these?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubota_engines  

Correction: Microcar uses a Lombardini twin diesel.

Edited September 29, 2022 by RayMK
Correction

[LightBulbFun]

8 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

The install looks pretty neat to be fair. It looked a clean one when auctioned a decade ago:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1976-ac-model-70-invacar-original-307733194

indeed! its a clean installation ill give it that much, apart from where the chap drilled a bunch of holes in the rear engine cover for the radiator, good Model 70 body panels are not easy to come by so thats a bit painful to see!

while its amusing to see and it would be interesting to hear what it would be like to drive, its not really my cup of tea, the Steyr Puch engine is a much better engine and I much prefer keeping things stock in generally, especially as I can see people being miss led by it and then run around thinking all Model 70's where diesel powered!

1 hour ago, RayMK said:

@LightBulbFun Are you sure VAV1L is a three cylinder diesel?  I can't find any listing for a triple Kubota diesel engine of that capacity (500cc). Assuming it is not one of the numerous single cylinders options, shouldn't it be a twin?  The triple cylindered Kubota diesels range from 656cc to 1123cc.  Microcar and Aixam diesels with a Kubota unit are twins of around 500cc and also have CVT.  Does VAV1L use a re-purposed unit from one of these?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubota_engines  

Correction: Microcar uses a Lombardini twin diesel.

I thought I had read that it was a 3 cylinder somewhere, but your right in that I cant say that im 100% sure, the original installation post makes no mention of its cylinder count, so ill have to look into where I got 3 cylinder from!

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/138513/1976-ac-invacar-model-70?page=2&scrollTo=2242210

its still coupled to the original AC Model 70 CVT system AFAIK!

[Dick Cheeseburger]

54 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed! its a clean installation ill give it that much, apart from where the chap drilled a bunch of holes in the rear engine cover for the radiator, good Model 70 body panels are not easy to come by so thats a bit painful to see!

while its amusing to see and it would be interesting to hear what it would be like to drive, its not really my cup of tea, the Steyr Puch engine is a much better engine and I much prefer keeping things stock in generally, especially as I can see people being miss led by it and then run around thinking all Model 70's where diesel powered!

I thought I had read that it was a 3 cylinder somewhere, but your right in that I cant say that im 100% sure, the original installation post makes no mention of its cylinder count, so ill have to look into where I got 3 cylinder from!

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/138513/1976-ac-invacar-model-70?page=2&scrollTo=2242210

its still coupled to the original AC Model 70 CVT system AFAIK!

Interesting thread. Funny to see someone take one of these on a decade ago - several years before DW and you dragged them back into the limelight. Bold move to fit the diesel lump too. It would be interesting for someone like DW to take it for a drive and to compare it to a standard example - I'd imagine it would be entertaining with some torque as part of the deal. 

[Zelandeth]

Think the biggest issue with that one is likely top end.  The stock CVT pulley setup aims to keep the engine sitting at 3500rpm, until it reaches top gear at ~45mph.  So 60mph is somewhere in the region of 4000 - what's the governor likely set at on that little diesel?

I do admit though that I'd be really curious to see how it drives too.

[Remspoor]

Have you seen this baby?

 

Post card of Blackpool North Pier said to be 1978.

[RayMK]

@LightBulbFun The photo on RR seems to indicate that the unit is a twin - from the two injectors and two branch exhaust manifold.  I've test driven an early Aixam with the Kubota twin not long after they came on the market.  Many Reliant dealers took them on to try to boost sales.  Although I liked the look of the little Aixam, its engine was the roughest, noisiest unit I've ever experienced. I can't imagine that it is anywhere near as refined as the Steyr-Puch petrol engine.  I can only assume that the original engine was too far gone/too expensive to fix. A BMW or Citroen flat twin (petrol) engine would have been my choice if faced with that situation, but everyone to their own... 

[LightBulbFun]

49 minutes ago, RayMK said:

@LightBulbFun The photo on RR seems to indicate that the unit is a twin - from the two injectors and two branch exhaust manifold.

interesting!, I was wondering if there was anything in the engine bay shot that would give us clues! good to know what it actually is!  

49 minutes ago, RayMK said:

I can only assume that the original engine was too far gone/too expensive to fix.

indeed the story I have heard is that the owner fitted the diesel engine partly out of necessity rather then choice as something had indeed gone wrong the Steyr Puch engine, so its understandable in that it was either have the car off the road or fit the diesel engine to get it back on the road

I did hear also at one point that he was looking to put it back to stock  but all of this is second hand info, I have sadly never run into the guy who owns it directly to get the full story! 

but I am more then willing to help him source another Steyr puch Engine or help him fix his original unit if he still has it, thankfully the Steyr puch engine itself has relatively good parts support, especially from its homeland in Austria and around there

which is why I wish I was around at the time the original engine went wrong, as I would of been more then willing to out of my way to help him get the bits he needs/needed to fix his original engine, or help him source an entire replacement engine if the damage was catastrophic

I sadly run into things like this a lot where I feel like I have arrived just a bit too late! if only I was around a few years ealier!

49 minutes ago, RayMK said:

A BMW or Citroen flat twin (petrol) engine would have been my choice if faced with that situation, but everyone to their own... 

indeed if I had to re-engine a Model 70, a BMW Flat twin would also be my choice and be quite fun to see as well  

although, if performance was the aim of the game, as I mentioned before the Steyr Puch Flat twin itself can be tuned and upgraded quite extensively, which I would love to see first before moving onto something like a BMW flat twin

[3VOM]

13 hours ago, Remspoor said:

Have you seen this baby?

 

Post card of Blackpool North Pier said to be 1978.

Someone has been generous with the colourising of the sea if that's Blackpool.

[JJ0063]

1 minute ago, 3VOM said:

Someone has been generous with the colourising of the sea if that's Blackpool.

I thought that, they’ve also edited the toilet paper out.

[Crackers]

21 hours ago, RayMK said:

@LightBulbFun The photo on RR seems to indicate that the unit is a twin - from the two injectors and two branch exhaust manifold.  I've test driven an early Aixam with the Kubota twin not long after they came on the market.  Many Reliant dealers took them on to try to boost sales.  Although I liked the look of the little Aixam, its engine was the roughest, noisiest unit I've ever experienced. I can't imagine that it is anywhere near as refined as the Steyr-Puch petrol engine.  I can only assume that the original engine was too far gone/too expensive to fix. A BMW or Citroen flat twin (petrol) engine would have been my choice if faced with that situation, but everyone to their own... 

I agree, at that size it's definitely more likely to be a 2-cylinder. We have one in a 7 1/4" locomotive at the miniature railway I'm involved with which looks pretty much identical to that one, and it's an incredibly rough engine. Clatters like hell, never smooths out at any revs, deafening at idle, smokes like Snoop Dogg flat out. It's pretty torquey though and seems well suited to run hydraulics, which probably translates well to a CVT drive too. I don't think I could imagine it with a conventional gearbox attached, it's definitely an engine that likes to sit at a goverened RPM rather than rev up and down.

[Zelandeth]

Aye, the Kubota diesel twin is a fantastic little industrial engine.  They're fantastically dependable little units which sip fuel.  

Refinement though really isn't a strong point...which given they're really made for industrial applications first and foremost isn't that surprising.

[Dyslexic Viking]

If someone were to switch to a different engine in these, wouldn't a Harley v twin be great? The sound they make is fantastic.

[Weird Car]

Finally got around to visiting Coventry Motor Museum, shame it was pretty hidden 

[LightBulbFun]

35 minutes ago, Harriytait said:

Finally got around to visiting Coventry Motor Museum, shame it was pretty hidden 

Very Awesome TJN352R not only the very last Model 70 in Ministry service being only withdrawn on the 14th of October 2004! although I sadly dont think the Museum realise/know the historic importance of this particular Model 70, but it is why/how it survives today  

(as thankfully the Ministry and everyone involved in its withdrawal did recognise its historical importance and made sure it was saved!)

 

but also on a more personal level TJN was REV's first stable mate, TJN and REV having lived together from 1985 to 2000, you may of noticed she has the same non standard clock as fitted to REV  

it was literally his and hers Model 70's for about 15 years. although sadly I dont have any pictures of them together, there are pictures of TJN at home a few days before her withdrawal but REV had already been sold on at this point in time

sadly I have very few photos of REV from before I owned her in fact! (mainly just the screen grabs from her movie role)

 

and then @Mrs6C's Model 70 went to live with REV for about 17 years! interestingly both TJN352R and @Mrs6C's Model 70 have the same special floor mounted handbrake mechanisms! so thats a bit fun coincidental continuity for you! 

[LightBulbFun]

this has been a fun game of "identify which of the known survivors that Model 70 is" as Grham Walker of the Microcar world has got himself another Model 70!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/posts/5503226426386941/

identifying this one was quite fun especially  when at first I had only the first photo, but having seen the second photo partial reg forced me to consider some Model 70's I had previously ruled out

and having knuckled down on it, I think its TPE409S from @alpinerapier (who also has WVW312S )  

just polished up a fair bit since I last saw it!

and indeed checking the Ye Olde DVLA shows recent movement!

so will be interesting to see if I am indeed on the money!  

if so, its sad to hear its been sold, but im pleased to see it again! its one of those known survivors i had found out about way back the start, but then sort of went dark, so will be good to see all is good on it!

(I mean regardless of which it is, the DVLA activity on TPE409S is always a good sign!)

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

^ Is that strop attached to the door roller? If so, I assume the courier is Bodgit and Scarper or similar...

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

^ Is that strop attached to the door roller? If so, I assume the courier is Bodgit and Scarper or similar...

yeah I did notice that as well! 

 

I had also wondered just how close they where to the weight limit of things, as on the back was a Low Light Morris Minor as well!

but I dont know what the weight of one of those are and what they Payload capacity of the van is, all I can say is a Late Model 70 like TPE409S is 413Kg-414Kg, so ill let someone else who knows more about the van in question etc use that data to figure things out!

but I did muse to myself thinking, imaging being a VOSA officer pulling a van opening the back to be greeted with the arse of a Model 70 LOL 

like some Autoshite version of a Russian Doll LOL

 

I know these Microcar World guys do this sort of thing on a professional basis (they buy and sell Microcars etc as their business) so Id like to think they will have done their research and loaded things up properly, and that the strap is just there to keep the door itself in place, but who knows!

[Dobloseven]

7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah I did notice that as well! 

 

I had also wondered just how close they where to the weight limit of things, as on the back was a Low Light Morris Minor as well!

but I dont know what the weight of one of those are and what they Payload capacity of the van is, all I can say is a Late Model 70 like TPE409S is 413Kg-414Kg, so ill let someone else who knows more about the van in question etc use that data to figure things out!

but I did muse to myself thinking, imaging being a VOSA officer pulling a van opening the back to be greeted with the arse of a Model 70 LOL 

like some Autoshite version of a Russian Doll LOL

 

I know these Microcar World guys do this sort of thing on a professional basis (they buy and sell Microcars etc as their business) so Id like to think they will have done their research and loaded things up properly, and that the strap is just there to keep the door itself in place, but who knows!

A few years ago I saw a smiley face Transit car transporter carrying a Transit van and towing a car trailer with another Transit van on it. Belonged to a local Ford dealer as well. The Transit I hired the other week had a maximum weight of 3600kg and a Gross train weight of 6200kg.

[Dyslexic Viking]

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

yeah I did notice that as well! 

 

I had also wondered just how close they where to the weight limit of things, as on the back was a Low Light Morris Minor as well!

but I dont know what the weight of one of those are and what they Payload capacity of the van is, all I can say is a Late Model 70 like TPE409S is 413Kg-414Kg, so ill let someone else who knows more about the van in question etc use that data to figure things out!

but I did muse to myself thinking, imaging being a VOSA officer pulling a van opening the back to be greeted with the arse of a Model 70 LOL 

like some Autoshite version of a Russian Doll LOL

 

I know these Microcar World guys do this sort of thing on a professional basis (they buy and sell Microcars etc as their business) so Id like to think they will have done their research and loaded things up properly, and that the strap is just there to keep the door itself in place, but who knows!

A quick check of a similar Transit here in Norway shows that this has a payload of 1325 kg and a trailer weight of 2750 kg and a total weight van with trailer of 6000 kg. So as I thought this is legal.

[LightBulbFun]

18 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

this has been a fun game of "identify which of the known survivors that Model 70 is" as Grham Walker of the Microcar world has got himself another Model 70!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/posts/5503226426386941/

identifying this one was quite fun especially  when at first I had only the first photo, but having seen the second photo partial reg forced me to consider some Model 70's I had previously ruled out

and having knuckled down on it, I think its TPE409S from @alpinerapier (who also has WVW312S )  

just polished up a fair bit since I last saw it!

and indeed checking the Ye Olde DVLA shows recent movement!

so will be interesting to see if I am indeed on the money!  

if so, its sad to hear its been sold, but im pleased to see it again! its one of those known survivors i had found out about way back the start, but then sort of went dark, so will be good to see all is good on it!

(I mean regardless of which it is, the DVLA activity on TPE409S is always a good sign!)

 

Looks like I was bang on the money!

tis indeed TPE409S 

  

I am very pleased to finally get a shot showing its interior to confirm its control scheme

turns out its a Handle bar machine, not a Tiller bar machine as I had previously thought, in @dollywobbler's Bond Mini car review the owner (who owned/owns TPE409S and WVW312S ) mentions both of his where Tiller bar machines, but perhaps its just WVW312S that is? but I have never seen any detailed pictures of that one either sadly

its cleaned up well and its very nice to see the original Ace plates remain  

although theres a small anomaly that I have noticed in the pictures that make me just want to see if I can verify its ID with the current owners, and check if TPE409S really is TPE409S!

[egg]

Will be interesting to see what Graham puts it up for sale for.

[Mrs6C]

Interesting LHS rear lamp with a clear white top part. Presumably there is an orange bulb in there... 

[egg]

Know anything about these LBF? Sorry for not putting in Lightbulb thread.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/486531613041970/

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Will be interesting to see what Graham puts it up for sale for.

assuming it actually even makes it to market! the last Model 70 he bought just went directly to Adam pretty much LOL

1 hour ago, Mrs6C said:

Interesting LHS rear lamp with a clear white top part. Presumably there is an orange bulb in there... 

I think thats just an orange lens thats faded in the sunlight, I have seen a number of these CEP rear lights in various degrees of faded over the years!

but funnily enough I was thinking it would still be useable if you chucked an orange bulb in there as you say  

44 minutes ago, egg said:

Know anything about these LBF? Sorry for not putting in Lightbulb thread.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/486531613041970/

 

indeed I do  thats a 1930's ESLA Bi-multi street light, pretty much the first streetlight to give some serious thought into optical light control, hence the many glass reflectors 

to me they are a holy grail streetlight for me and id LOVE to get one some day, but when they do show up they are often priced quite steeply for something that quite literally has been exposed to the elements for 80 years and is often in need of serious restoration, beyond my skills/abilities sadly

but when sorted out, they are truly spectacular to behold  

On 15/01/2022 at 20:16, LightBulbFun said:

someone figured out why I gave it a like  

it looks like an ESLA Bi-multi streetlight one of the staple streetlights of the 1930's and one of the first with some proper thought into optical light control

http://www.simoncornwell.com/lighting/collect/lanterns/esla-a165-1/index.htm

I really really want to get one for the collection but they are not easy to find, and most that are found are in a sorry state missing many of its facetted mirrors 

they are an amazing lantern to behold when lit-up with a proper clear GLS lamp 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8050359@N07/8442752182

 

I do however have a special Derby 100 lightbulb for one , which was a special kind of oversized 100W lightbulb made in the 150W bulb size for the Derby council and used in their ESLA street lights

as the post WW2 100W lamps with their standardised 60Mm bulb size, would pop in the rain (pre WW2 each lamp wattage had its own bulb size, but post WW2 in the Early 50's lamp manufacturers standardised on a 60Mm bulb for all sizes from 15W to 100W)

and also messed up the focusing of the lamp in the reflectors (ESLA's are generally designed for 150W-200W lamps, Derby was unusual in using 100W lamps with theirs, ESLA did also make much larger versions for main/major roads using up to 1000W GLS lamps, but these are VERY rare not actually sure if I have seen a picture of one or not!)

so Derby requested the old size of 100W lamp, and while lamp makers could not offer that anymore they did offer to make a 100W lamp with the bulb of a 150W lamp which solved the issue  

a detailed writeup of this lamp can be found here  http://www.streetlightonline.co.uk/derby100.htm

 

[LightBulbFun]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/109418819125/posts/10162265619069126/

this was pretty awesome to see! "ALB761A" or Alba as its known by its owner , is on the move! the first Model 67 to join the very exclusive ranks of road worthy Villiers machine! and its first time I Have ever seen a surviving Model 67 move under its own power  

Goodwood themselves even tweeted about it!

https://twitter.com/GoodwoodRRC/status/1576515259476623360

but as is sadly typical they got most of their facts wrong! obviously as is well known on here by now, Invacar had nothing to do with AC at all (not until the Mk12E/Model 70 at least) and I am curious where they pulled the date of 1960 from! AC Started supplying the AC All weather Tricycle Model 43 en-mass to the Ministry 10 years earlier then that in 1950!

[High Jetter]

Maybe you to should get in touch to offer your expertise?

[barrett]

Spotted this?

Hiding in the background of this listing, on Orkney. Know it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115549447026

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, barrett said:

Spotted this?

Hiding in the background of this listing, on Orkney. Know it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115549447026

are you referring to EGR754 in the background?

if so, thats "only sadly" an early Reliant regal! but funnily enough indeed I do indeed know of it  

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/posts/5320322494677336/

the chap ended up with a bunch of Reliants and Raleighs 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/posts/5304411926268393/

[barrett]

Damnit!

Still, that's quite a good price for that... Been there, done that, never again.