invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[plasticvandan]

You would know if it was gear oil,it stinks. What's run into three or four beads sat at the bottom of the diff looks thinner to me.easy way is to just put your finger in it and see what colour it is/smell.if it's red/pink it's atf.unlikely to be engine oil as it looks too clean.

[Andrew353w]

8 hours ago, Heidel_Kakao said:

EP90 stinks like cat piss due to the sulphur in it, if you get any on your clothes you will know about it.

I've always thought the smell akin to bay's vomit...... Whatever it smells like, it's bloody awful! 

[Datsuncog]

I had a bottle of Castrol Syntrax gear oil leak in the back of the Forester. Soaked the boot carpet and ran down under the back seats. The smell when you opened the door on a warm day would have knocked you out; to me it wasn't dissimilar to the smell of a fishmonger's bin. Then the winder mechanism on driver's window stopped working.

I know it was also pure rotten underneath, but I can't say the gear oil smell wasn't a factor in my decision to scrap it...

[LightBulbFun]

is it just the EP variants of gear oil that smell bad or is it all types? I am just wondering if this might be regular SAE90 rather then 90EP? (as either is allowed according to the lubrication chart)

 

I did wonder if it was engine oil, as on my fingers it looked a *lot* like what I had just wiped off the engine dipstick previously,  but I am not sure how it could be accumulating on the diff, given the engine and the diff are fairly well spaced apart, and the diff is ahead of the engine, although maybe its being blown about by big ol cooling fan and somehow collecting there?

 

[neil1971]

Sorry if it's already been on here, but this popped up on Facebook, from the Views of New and Old Lowestoft page

[LightBulbFun]

53 minutes ago, neil1971 said:

Sorry if it's already been on here, but this popped up on Facebook, from the Views of New and Old Lowestoft page

thats cool! not a picture I have seen before nice to see a picture of another REV! due to how the registration system of the UK changed during the production of the Model 70, and how the blocks aligned, there are actually 3 REV blocks of Model 70's,  REV701K-REV800K, REV701M-REV800M and REV375R-REV475R, but of the 301 REV Model 70's only REV451R is known to survive, and I dont have any pictures really of any other REV's

there is however also REV731 a 1950 Invacar Model 19D, its the only other "REV" known to survive, although I have never seen a photograph of it sadly, but I would love to meet up with it with my REV  especially as looking at the details of REV731 I think its a private car rather then a Ministry car, just like my REV!  

 

[Spottedlaurel]

@LightBulbFun seen this one in the Ian Allen "Scottish Bus Group" book?

[EyesWeldedShut]

26 minutes ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Ian Allen "Scottish Bus Group" book?

My Dad's first car was NAG465G - close.
The InvaCar - I'm assuming they all got block registered someplace (TWC = Essex?) and then shipped around the country?

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

@LightBulbFun seen this one in the Ian Allen "Scottish Bus Group" book?

indeed I have page 384  but I appreciate the heads up none-the-less  

 

On 09/08/2024 at 01:25, LightBulbFun said:

On 26/02/2023 at 10:33, LightBulbFun said:

Whoa! check this out its another TWC! TWC750K, not DVLA live so it came off the road within a couple years of being photographed 

https://www.facebook.com/olivier.stourme/posts/pfbid0367cPhnEhZQto6zBVDi6QbGTcaTsUJqTAdT8FiMniaCyTxnxx8oJFxu2i97wLWipnl

always wondered if any of TWC's sister cars had been papped! Obviously like most other Model 70's there was a whole block of TWC's TWC701K-TWC800K

so the possibility was always out there, but the statistical chances of it where slim, so this is very awesome to see! its also awesome to see as its a highly original spec car, and shows what @dollywobbler's TWC would of looked like when new (give or take some wheel trims!)

complete with original rear lights, dash-change still even (which is pretty interesting to see still present in 1980) and  Tippers pressed number plates  

recent discovery from Stuart this time, from "Britain's Buses in the Seventies" its another TWC! , this time TWC774K would of only been a year old in that picture, but not DVLA live so did not make it past 1983

 

3 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

My Dad's first car was NAG465G - close.
The InvaCar - I'm assuming they all got block registered someplace (TWC = Essex?) and then shipped around the country?

indeed, all ministry invalid vehicles where registered in blocks by the factory that produced them, so Essex for Invacar, Surrey for AC, Coventry for Tippen etc, often in blocks of 100 or 200, Ministry invalid vehicles where very much fleet vehicles, if you think them as single-seater buses, then a lot of how things where done will probably make a lot of sense  

the only exception to this is the new Model 70's sent to Northern Ireland after the 1st of October 1974, due to how the English and Northern Ireland registration systems diverge from that point forward, the Ministry had to send un-registered vehicles over there and get them locally registered (although they where still all centrally registered in Belfast)

[lesapandre]

Lovely day herein London. Trip out for photos?

[LightBulbFun]

On 05/04/2025 at 15:23, lesapandre said:

Lovely day herein London. Trip out for photos?

well today I had an early start for the flower farm meet  

but REV did not appreciate the early AM Sunday wake up call, and about 23 miles into the drive, while I was otherwise quite happily humming along the M25, just after junction 3 

the drive belt decided to to exit stage left, (I suspect the sounds of things hitting the under-carriage about 15 seconds before it let go, was not in fact road debris, but chunks of drive belt flying off!)

so nothing for it, recovery was called and within the hour I was on my way back home!, my first time in a Lorry so thats something I suppose  (what was rather amusing was how quickly google maps seemed to update with "warning stalled car reported" as it took me a moment to shut the sat nav up after making the phone calls)

and before not too long, I was back home and REV unloaded safe and sound  

while REV was on the flat bed I took the opportunity to look at things and confirmed indeed the drive belt is what had let go 

what I find rather impressive is how it seems to have vanished for the most part, having a quick reach about this was the largest piece I could find, with a NOS belt for comparison!

I suppose most of it is strewn across the M25! (and a fair amount of that string has confettied itself around REV's undercarriage) the drive belt on REV was one of the last major things I wanted to check/service on REV since I have no idea when it was done last, so I had been meaning to change it preemptively anyhow, I suppose its now just moved itself up the order somewhat! 

 

on the plus-side the exhaust bodge seems to have worked quite well  there might be a slight ticking noise? but its *much* better then it was and that ticking noise is only present at a certain speed/rev range (who knows maybe it was early signs of the belt failing) but certainly other driving about it sounds like she used to, in-fact it sounded better then she used to! I wonder if it had been slightly holed for a while now? or i had just quickly gotten used to what its like with a hole in it LOL either way im pleased the exhaust bodge worked  

 

[Andrew353w]

You have my sympathy! I deposited various parts of a Daf 33 belt on the M1 a few years ago; the noise was deafening, somewhat akin to a shotgun going off under the car.Fortunately, having two belts I could keep going and made my way s-l-o-w-l-y home without the need to call the AA.

[lesapandre]

18 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

well today I had an early start for the flower farm meet  

but REV did not appreciate the early AM Sunday wake up call, and about 23 miles into the drive, while I was otherwise quite happily humming along the M25, just after junction 3 

the drive belt decided to to exit stage left, (I suspect the sounds of things hitting the under-carriage about 15 seconds before it let go, was not in fact road debris, but chunks of drive belt flying off!)

so nothing for it, recovery was called and within the hour I was on my way back home!, my first time in a Lorry so thats something I suppose  (what was rather amusing was how quickly google maps seemed to update with "warning stalled car reported" as it took me a moment to shut the sat nav up after making the phone calls)

and before not too long, I was back home and REV unloaded safe and sound  

while REV was on the flat bed I took the opportunity to look at things and confirmed indeed the drive belt is what had let go 

what I find rather impressive is how it seems to have vanished for the most part, having a quick reach about this was the largest piece I could find, with a NOS belt for comparison!

I suppose most of it is strewn across the M25! (and a fair amount of that string has confettied itself around REV's undercarriage) the drive belt on REV was one of the last major things I wanted to check/service on REV since I have no idea when it was done last, so I had been meaning to change it primitively anyhow, I suppose its now just moved itself up the order somewhat! 

 

on the plus-side the exhaust bodge seems to have worked quite well  there might be a slight ticking noise? but its *much* better then it was and that ticking noise is only present at a certain speed/rev range (who knows maybe it was early signs of the belt failing) but certainly other driving about it sounds like she used to, in-fact it sounded better then she used to! I wonder if it had been slightly holed for a while now? or i had just quickly gotten used to what its like with a hole in it LOL either way im pleased the exhaust bodge worked  

 

Alls well that ends well. If you are going to have an FTP nothing better than a quiet sunny Sunday - and much better than in 🇫🇷 France sometime in a thunderstorm.

Any idea how old the belt was? 

Glad you and Rev are safe and sound 👍

[AdgeCutler]

It must have been the day for it Dez, Rev lost her go while Brian lost his stop.
While out happily trundling around I came to some traffic lights which wanted us to stop, no brakes, exciting! Had to drive home on the handbrake.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Alls well that ends well. If you are going to have an FTP nothing better than a quiet sunny Sunday - and much better than in 🇫🇷 France sometime in a thunderstorm.

Any idea how old the belt was? 

Glad you and Rev are safe and sound 👍

no idea how old the drive-belt is or how many miles on it hence why I wanted to get it preemptively changed, im hoping fingers crossed that with some assistance I can get a new belt put on, from what I have read its quite simple, but the question is how much of a fight will the fastners/adjuster put up

I had half a mind to ask them to recover me to flower farm, and hope that someone there might have a toolkit on them, (as I do carry a spare belt on me at all time) but I did not know for sure at that point in time if it really was the drive-belt that let go, and or if anything else had let go (there is the question of why did the drive-belt fail, is it just old age or has something happened with one of the pulleys, I know @dollywobbler had TWC shred a drive belt after a duff set of pulleys was fitted)

so figured just play it safe, get her home, then I can worry about it in my own time  

15 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

It must have been the day for it Dez, Rev lost her go while Brian lost his stop.
While out happily trundling around I came to some traffic lights which wanted us to stop, no brakes, exciting! Had to drive home on the handbrake.

Eeeep! that sounds like no fun at all, losing drive is one thing, but losing brakes is a whole other thing! do you know whats happened to cause the loss of brakes? glad you managed to get yourself and Brian home without incident otherwise, also nice to hear Brian is still being used out-n-about of course  

[AdgeCutler]

51 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

no idea how old the drive-belt is or how many miles on it hence why I wanted to get it preemptively changed, im hoping fingers crossed that with some assistance I can get a new belt put on, from what I have read its quite simple, but the question is how much of a fight will the fastners/adjuster put up

I had half a mind to ask them to recover me to flower farm, and hope that someone there might have a toolkit on them, (as I do carry a spare belt on me at all time) but I did not know for sure at that point in time if it really was the drive-belt that let go, and or if anything else had let go (there is the question of why did the drive-belt fail, is it just old age or has something happened with one of the pulleys, I know @dollywobbler had TWC shred a drive belt after a duff set of pulleys was fitted)

so figured just play it safe, get her home, then I can worry about it in my own time  

Eeeep! that sounds like no fun at all, losing drive is one thing, but losing brakes is a whole other thing! do you know whats happened to cause the loss of brakes? glad you managed to get yourself and Brian home without incident otherwise, also nice to hear Brian is still being used out-n-about of course  

I’ve just finished rectifying the problem. 
Whipped off the master cylinder (what is it were now supposed to call them now that the PC brigade has deemed slave and master unsuitable terms?). The bottom of the reservoir for a start did not look the “pristine “ that we like to see within brake systems but upon removing the piston it got worse. 

[AdgeCutler]

I’m blaming the brake fluid I used, it must have been contaminated with water. After stripping it all down and cleaning everything, it became evident what had caused the failure. The wavy washer that holds the foot valve open had corroded and stopped holding the seal against the seat, thus allowing the fluid to return straight to reservoir upon brake application. Such a tiny component to cause such a worry!

A quick rummage around a mates garage soon yielded a NOS replacement and we’re now back on the road.

[Mrs6C]

In other news... at about 20 seconds in to this little FB reel, a brace of small blue vehicles can be spied...
https://www.facebook.com/reel/4180870522136807

[LightBulbFun]

14 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

In other news... at about 20 seconds in to this little FB reel, a brace of small blue vehicles can be spied...
https://www.facebook.com/reel/4180870522136807

neat! looks like an AC Acedes and Invacar Mk12 (and a mini) we could almost replicate this at the FoD  its quite impressive how much such a small locmotoive can pull! thats probably 300kg on the back there?

shame about the freebooters on facebook not linking to the original source mind! but nothing a bit of internet sleuthing cant turn up

 

[beko1987]

We could re create that photo, I'll bring my suit to the fod on the day 😂

@Slowsilver wears the same colour overalls as the driver already so thats his job sorted 👌

[LightBulbFun]

22 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

You have my sympathy! I deposited various parts of a Daf 33 belt on the M1 a few years ago; the noise was deafening, somewhat akin to a shotgun going off under the car.Fortunately, having two belts I could keep going and made my way s-l-o-w-l-y home without the need to call the AA.

curiously this one did not let itself go as suddenly as @Zelandeth's or yours did, rather very soon after the sounds of something (bits of drive belt I presume) hitting/clattering the underside behind me there was suddenly a cacophony of bad noises and interesting smells and then "VRRRRR" as drive was finally completely lost

so I did a quick mirror signal/over the shoulder check, and then made a a bee-line for the hard shoulder across 3 lanes  and 1 set of chevroned markings, in a manoeuvre that im sure would make a BMW/Audi proud  (apart from the fact I did actually do observations and used my signals but I digress)

 

speaking of drive belts I have got my brother coming over on the 10th hopefully to lend a hand in getting it changed, hopefully I can just replicate Zel's work, my main apprehension being is will the adjuster nuts all back off! theres the main adjuster rod itself, and then  3 nuts/bolts in slots 

and will there in my particular case be enough clearance with the adjust backed all the way off to slip the belt over the pulleys, im hoping so, I know REV has the same type of pulleys as Zel's but we all know how things can go!

On 22/08/2020 at 20:00, Zelandeth said:

Changing the CVT belt on an Invacar is pretty simple.  I think the manual says you're meant to remove one of the pulleys, but if you back the tensioner all the way off there's just enough slack to walk the belt on without removing things.

 

 

[High Jetter]

Can you give the nuts a daily dose of penetrating fluid in the interim?

[LightBulbFun]

31 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Can you give the nuts a daily dose of penetrating fluid in the interim?

thats kinda the plan, im hoping a bit later today to pop down, push REV a few parking spots down, and then remove the seat back and bath tub to get access to the CVT system so its all ready for the 10th, and as you say do any preemptive small jobs I can do while im there like douse the nuts-n-bolts in penetrating fluid etc and see how much of the belt-string thats deposited itself everywhere I can remove, I have noticed for example the F-N-R, gear-selector has gone a bit stiff, which is a bit worrying since its not supposed to be stiff, but peeping at things from underneath im hoping its just a case some of the string has wrapped itself around the selector mechanism, rather then the gearbox having lunched itself! (while fishing out that bit of drive belt above I did note the pulley that goes into the gearbox itself was easy to spin so ill take that as a good sign the gearbox has not lunched itself hopefully! since without the belt in place it wont be coupled to anything but the gearbox and clutch drum if its in gear)

 

[Zelandeth]

Recovered in a Volvo, flash git!  Was a bloody Mitsubishi cabstar with zero suspension last time for me!

I think a CVT belt failure is kinda of a rite of passage for anyone owning a car with one.  If I'd known the one on there was of unknown origins I'd probably have made a point of making getting a known new one on there a priority when the car was at the FoD, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Glad for your nerves it was a "low energy" failure - looks like your belt has kind of unravelled itself.  Mine looked to more or less cleanly break instead - and that was emphatically NOT low energy.  Absolutely fine until there was a bang which left my ears ringing and the cars behind me vanished in a cloud of every loose piece of dust or rust anywhere on the entire chassis it seemed like.  I really should pull the cover off and *properly* inspect the one on there now as it's been there a while now...

While you're in there changing it, do make a point of checking as far as possible to make sure any bits of shredded belt haven't managed to get themselves wrapped around any of the exhaust or similarly hot areas - last thing you want is a fire, and that confetti looks like pretty much perfect tinder for starting one.

[LightBulbFun]

7 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Recovered in a Volvo, flash git!  Was a bloody Mitsubishi cabstar with zero suspension last time for me!

yeah I was like "Oh a Volvo, fancy!" and also general bemusement at the totally overkill sort of vehicle it is for recovering an Invacar! the recovery man said its what they usually use to recover vans and smaller lorries, ie one step down from the heavy wreckers, so I feel sorry for anyone else later that day with a broken down van that was told "sorry all our large recovery vehicles are on a job" only to see this go past with small REV on the back LOL)

I sadly entirely failed to grab any pictures of the front im afraid! while it had suspension, there was instead something in the middle of the seat that poked me in the back the whole way home, otherwise seemed pleasant  enough!

7 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Glad for your nerves it was a "low energy" failure - looks like your belt has kind of unravelled itself.  Mine looked to more or less cleanly break instead - and that was emphatically NOT low energy.  Absolutely fine until there was a bang which left my ears ringing and the cars behind me vanished in a cloud of every loose piece of dust or rust anywhere on the entire chassis it seemed like.  I really should pull the cover off and *properly* inspect the one on there now as it's been there a while now...

 

how is this these days?

On 22/08/2020 at 20:00, Zelandeth said:

The one really noticeable thing that has changed however is that the horrible what I'd always assumed was clutch judder appears to have gone.  That's been an issue I've had since the first time KPL moved on my driveway under her own power so has been with me for a while!  If a new belt has sorted it I'll be very happy!

one of the things REV had developed was quite a bad judder-shunt when taking up drive, at first I thought it was only when doing a quick getaway but after bit of testing, I realised it happened at any sort of speed, no matter how gently you applied the throttle she would shunt/hop a bit, and I do wonder if we might be able to use this info in future to know when a drive-belt is soon to let go, since it sounds like yours was also judder before it finally went pop

I am hoping anyways when I fit the new belt, it solves the judder issue with REV as it is otherwise fairly unpleasant

7 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

While you're in there changing it, do make a point of checking as far as possible to make sure any bits of shredded belt haven't managed to get themselves wrapped around any of the exhaust or similarly hot areas - last thing you want is a fire, and that confetti looks like pretty much perfect tinder for starting one.

yeah ill be giving things a through going over and try and remove as much of that string/fluff as possible thats for sure  

[Zelandeth]

She does definitely still shunt a bit when moving off, though it's nowhere near as violent as it was with the original belt.  I get the impression that it's just something of a limitation with this drive setup, certainly as things age a bit.  With a perfect belt, perfect pulleys, a perfect flywheel and perfect clutch shoes maybe it will be properly smooth, but these days it just seems to be a feature. 

I think it was pretty much completely masked when the new belt was initially fitted as it hadn't bedded in yet and still had a bit more slip to it.

Quite a few applications which use a CVT like this, the belt slipping on the pulleys is actually what serves the purpose of the clutch.  The belt is actually a loose enough fit that at idle it slips - and it's only when the pulley sheaves pull in a bit that it starts to properly grip.  Has certainly been the case on the couple of ATVs I've changed belts on in the past.  That arrangement means that the belt never goes fully slack as there's always at least a little drag on it - I think it's the initial tensioning and belt "settling" on the pulleys as they start turning which causes some of the judder - though that's utter guesswork on my part. 

It's the walking pace squeaking which irritates me more than anything else to be honest!

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

neat! looks like an AC Acedes and Invacar Mk12 (and a mini) we could almost replicate this at the FoD  its quite impressive how much such a small locmotoive can pull! thats probably 300kg on the back there?

shame about the freebooters on facebook not linking to the original source mind! but nothing a bit of internet sleuthing cant turn up

 

Never underestimate the power of steam - the torque you can get from even a tiny engine like that is frankly mind boggling - add in a nice low rolling resistance surface like rails and traction when moving off is more likely to be your limitation in terms of how much you can get moving.  Also like an electric motor, a steam engine can deliver maximum torque from 0 rpm, so you don't need to faff about with slipping clutches or things like that. 

[LightBulbFun]

so I popped down to REV

got the seat-back out

and then got the rear parcel shelf/gearbox/transmission access hatch out, where it looks like some small fluffy animal has exploded 

alarmingly I discovered the reason for the gear-shifter suddenly being stiff is not because of the string wrapped around it, but because its somehow become bent

both upwards and to the left, and so it was now fowling on the hole that it enters the cabin through, and the linkage where it attaches to the gearbox is visibly twisted, so this in itself is pretty bad, how did it get bent, did it happen while the belt fell apart (maybe it was briefly grabbed by a bit of flailing belt?) or did something else happen which cause it to bend also cause the belt to fail?

I had a look at the gearbox mountings, as I wondered did one fail or something and let the gearbox drop? and while they dont look in the first flush of youth, I dont think they have failed either

but the other worrying concern is whats happened to the pulleys, for point of refrence this is the resting position they should look like (picture stolen from Zel)

 

 

and heres what mine are current like 

as you can see the domed one thats meant to be resting open, is stuck closed and the one thats meant to be resting closed, is stuck open! and in the domed pulley bits of fluff/string have gotten inside of it

 

for reference here is how REV's CVT area looked in 2019, you can see the gear selector rod was not bent then

 

 

 

I do have set or 2 of new pulleys thankfully in the parts stash, but fitting them I fear might be a bit tricky for me, for example im not sure how re-usable these rectangular locking washer things are or where one might get replacements

and then there is the matter of the bent gear selector rod, I suppose one would hope it can just be straightened out? but there is still the over-arching question of how did it get bent in the first place

so I am little bit stuck as to what to do now, as it clearly wont be a simple case of chuck a new drive belt on as I had hoped, I suppose the fix from here would be remove pulleys, somehow straighten out the gear-selector rod and fit new pulleys with new belt

[richardmorris]

Very likely it got whacked by the remains of the belt at 4000rpm ( or whatever it does on the m25). Sorry you couldn’t make it all the way, but very pleased it wasn’t catastrophic and more perilous for you. BesT place to come to a stop- well off the active lanes the other side of the slip road.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Very likely it got whacked by the remains of the belt at 4000rpm ( or whatever it does on the m25).

yeah I am thinking this as there was a bit of a sudden shunt/slow down when everything suddenly let go (which is why in the moment I was worried that maybe my differential had just exploded or something along those lines!) but thankfully thats fine, the car rolls freely and the pulley attatched to the gearbox turns freely (and I can see the clutch drum turning as it should when I do that, so I know the rest of the drive line is fine I think! its just the CVT bit of things thats literally thrown a strop

I cant see anything else out place that could cause it