Project 1975 Ford Granada Coupe - Lots & lots of tinkering

[TripleRich]

I was running BP ultimate with Millers VSPe fuel additive when I broke down.  It still boiled but the engine was certainly running too hot.  Having a mechanical pump bolted to the site of the block doesn't exactly help.

Main goal is to get the engine temp down as  I don't like running cologne V6s hot.  They can't take the abuse like an essex, much more fragile.  

[PhilA]

82 stat should help- I have an 82 in the Chieftain and that doesn't make too much heat into the carb, though the metal line that runs under the engine boils up where it's not in airflow from the fan. 

It's downright dirty but my solution is a low pressure, draw-through electric pump up by the tank that's on a switch under the dash. Generally it only needs it in really hot idling traffic or after the car's been sat up for a few minutes and the heat soak gets to the fuel. Since hooking that up I've had zero problems with new fuels.

 

Phil

[dollywobbler]

Broke down? Scrap it.

More seriously, I wonder if a Renault 5-esque carburettor fan would be an idea? Cooler stat probably a better idea...

[Noel Tidybeard]

bonnet louvres/ rs vents? 🤣

[Talbot]

Does this vehicle run flow only, or flow-and-return to the tank?  If it's on flow only, adding a return to the tank would save a lot of vapour lock problems, as you're constantly flowing fuel around, meaning it doesn't have time to get too hot.

I know you're going for originality on this, but a small mod like that to allow compatability with modern fuels might be essential.

[DSdriver]

Would a Kenlowe fan be an acceptable period aftermarket add on?

[PhilA]

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

Does this vehicle run flow only, or flow-and-return to the tank?  If it's on flow only, adding a return to the tank would save a lot of vapour lock problems, as you're constantly flowing fuel around, meaning it doesn't have time to get too hot.

I know you're going for originality on this, but a small mod like that to allow compatability with modern fuels might be essential.

Not if it was boiling in the float bowl... On a flow-only system your only hope is to pump enough liquid fuel to blow the vapor out and cool it down to the point the fuel remains liquid.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, DSdriver said:

Would a Kenlowe fan be an acceptable period aftermarket add on?

You'd have to find an engineering company that would supply you with one, as Kenlowe no longer sell direct to the public or retailers.

[Talbot]

41 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Not if it was boiling in the float bowl... On a flow-only system your only hope is to pump enough liquid fuel to blow the vapor out and cool it down to the point the fuel remains liquid.

True, but if there was a flow-and-return system in the first place, the fuel would likely enter the carb quite a bit cooler than if not, meaning you'd still be less likely to get vapour locks.

[PhilA]

1 minute ago, Talbot said:

True, but if there was a flow-and-return system in the first place, the fuel would likely enter the carb quite a bit cooler than if not, meaning you'd still be less likely to get vapour locks.

It would help, certainly. If the body of the carburetor has absorbed that much heat there is a problem. Either inadequate airflow around it or it needs a shield to keep the radiated heat from the manifold off it.

Adding the factory option heat shield to mine helped immensely.

 

Phil

[JimH]

The issue is clearly one of dwell time so the answer is to up the flow through the carb which is easily achieved by driving faster.

Officer.

[TripleRich]

4 hours ago, JimH said:

The issue is clearly one of dwell time so the answer is to up the flow through the carb which is easily achieved by driving faster.

Officer.

I did try driving quite a bit faster to get more cool fuel in the carb but I think it was too little too late.  Many pops and bangs were had before it died at about 50mph.  Handy as I could just roll to the nearest farm gate and stop.

It already has a fuel return and the fuel boiled as a result of the engine just getting too hot.  I'd rather it cut out and vapor lock before actually overheating in a cloud of steam and head gaskets.  Its only a little engine so I expect the fuel in the float bowl lasts quite a while.  I can help cool the carb by fitting a spacer block between it and the inlet.   

Fitting a revotec fan or similar is an option but the thermostat just opens too late for the cooling system to do anything.  I'd just be cooling a radiator that's not being allowed to flow into the engine.  Since wedging the thermostat open it runs cold at the bottom of the gauge.  I can't even get a quarter on the gauge in stationary afternoon traffic.  

I'll do the thermostat and progress from there.  Think I have a spacer block for the carb in my pile of bits so will try that if I continue to get problems with a stat fitted.  

[PhilA]

Does it natively have an insulating block between the carburetor and the manifold?

[TripleRich]

21 hours ago, PhilA said:

Does it natively have an insulating block between the carburetor and the manifold?

Sort of but not really.  There's a metal spacer that exists for vacuum purposes with a gasket either side.  Wont do much in terms of heat protection.

 

 

[PhilA]

Yeah, a nice phenolic block to reduce heat transfer from the manifold to the carb should help. I would've thought it was a continental offering from Ford.

[Jenson Velcro]

20 hours ago, PhilA said:

Yeah, a nice phenolic block to reduce heat transfer from the manifold to the carb should help. I would've thought it was a continental offering from Ford.

From hazy memories of my Scimitar with the same engine, if they didn’t come as standard with a phenolic block then they were often substituted, as it got bloody hot in the cramped engine bay surrounded by fibreglass bodywork.

[Lankytim]

Wrap the fuel pipes in foil?

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, Lankytim said:

Wrap the fuel pipes in foil?

That works quite well, there's fireproof orange jacketing that's used on piston engine aircraft for the same reason too which is highly effective.

This kinda stuff too.

 

Phil

[Parky]

What fuel are you using?  Another member had vaporisation issues with his SD1 and they seemed to improve by changing from premium unleaded to regular.

The reason for this is super unleaded has acetone in it and is more inclined to evaporate in hot temperatures.  Maybe try some regular stuff while it’s hot, you never know it might save having to strip things down.

EDIT - just read previous page which suggested Esso super has no ethanol in it so maybe that ones ok.  Either way try and find out which ones have ethanol / acetone in them, and avoid those that do

[TripleRich]

I fitted an 82 stat on Friday night before the show.  I forgot how tricky these are to blead but I got there eventually.  You always get a nasty airlock in the heater matrix on mk1s when the coolant is drained.  Ford fitted a blead valve in the affected hose on later cars.

Ran it round the block a few times and the temp stayed at half, with the 87 stat it would sit at 2 thirds or more.   

Set off the following morning on the 70 odd mile trip to FOTU.  Performed really well on the A1 with the temp sitting at half or slightly under.  Cruised at 70 running about 3k rpm thanks to 5th gear.  Plenty of stop start traffic too and it wasn't bothered.  I turned it off a few times in the queue to get in and it fired straight back up each time.  That should be an end to any vapor locks issues, queue was quite handy to test that on reflection.

A quick wax and rough clean of the engine bay to get rid of the water stains from the previous evening's thermostat fun and we're sorted.

On the way back I passed the 1k mile mark since the restoration.  I've not had any major issues and the car has gained my trust.  I'll thin out the tool kit in the boot now!  

[320touring]

Was tremendous to see it in the flesh - a proper credit to your skills and patience!

[RoadworkUK]

Listening to this as I sat behind you in the entry queue, I discovered that I prefer the sound of the 2.3 to the 2.8. What a fabulous machine that really is.

In fact, for what it's worth, it was my car of the show.

[High Jetter]

You mean ... it didn't win...everything?

[TripleRich]

Good news!  The sun has revived the original dealer sticker in the back window.  When I put the window in this looked really brown and washed out.  Slowly over the past couple of months it's been coming back to life in the sun.  No idea how that that works but I'm pleased.

Here it is with a colleagues Maxi, doing our best to bring some style to the otherwise modern car park.  Maxi gives the Granada a good run for its money on the twisty roads.  Good fun!

   

Done another 150 miles or so since the show.  Still running well and I make sure to give it a good workout each time without thrashing it.  Getting about 28mpg, on a run driving gentle I should be able to get 30 out of it. 

[Talbot]

11 hours ago, TripleRich said:

Getting about 28mpg, on a run driving gentle I should be able to get 30 out of it. 

That's remarkable.  I thought the official fuel consumption figures for a 2.3 granada were in the low 20s, and even that was if driven carefully.

[Rocket88]

Saw this close up at FOTU........a real credit to you......

[TripleRich]

10 hours ago, Talbot said:

That's remarkable.  I thought the official fuel consumption figures for a 2.3 granada were in the low 20s, and even that was if driven carefully.

I did just over 200 miles on a mix of roads and used 33 litres of fuel.  I'm sure 5th gear is really helping the figures.

A German roadtest of a 2.3 Granada got 32 mpg on a long run at a constant speed.  Around town it was right down in the low 20s.

[junkyarddog]

That is a impressive MPG.

Like the rest of the car really.

[TripleRich]

375 miles covered since the last post.  I put the daily driver in the garage and used the Granada instead.  Its been very enjoyable and I've been keeping a close eye on how its doing.

Since FOTU I've noticed a very slight hesitation just as you get on the throttle.  It only existed in 3rd gear going from a 30 to a 60 and was barely noticeable so I didn't think too much of it.  Last week on the way to work it turned into a more severe splutter/ hesitation at various speeds.  Only when slightly on the throttle and you could just power through it.

Knew it wasn't right so decided to take a look. 

First thing I found was a slight vacuum leak from the line running between the carb and the airbox.  The airbox is very old so I wasn't surprised, blocked it off and adjusted the tune.  

Went for a drive and it wasn't that so I set to looking at the ignition as its running points and a host of ancient NOS components.

The points were starting to pit a fair bit.  I'd expect them to be better than that given the mileage.  Usually means a bad condenser so I replaced both. 

I gapped the points and set the dwell.  Handy to have this book as a cologne engine with points wasn't available on UK Granada's.  It should be 38 degrees according to this.

Went for a drive and it wasn't that so I decided the swap the coil.  A weak one can cause issues with acceleration and while I had my doubts it only takes a minute to test.  Went for a drive and sure enough it wasn't that so I changed the spark plugs just to be sure and it wasn't those either.

I'd been thinking fuel for a while but didn't investigate as the fuel system is spotless and has been filtered since day one.  The filter is before the pump for max protection and the pump is a new item.

With the ignition system out of the picture it must be fuel related so I took the carb top off and removed the float to check the jets.

Wedged in one of the main jets was what looked like some blue gasket sealer.

No idea where that came from as I didn't use any on the restoration but there it is.

The rest of the carb was squeaky clean so I put everything back together and went for a drive.  It was indeed that starving the engine for fuel.  I reckon I've picked up 15HP!

It's always something stupid and I'm glad to have found it relatively quickly.  I'll use the car again next week.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, TripleRich said:

I'll use the car again next week.

Oh what a hardship!