Andrew353w Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I'm not sure if anyone here has any thoughts/advice on an employment problem that's looming for the staff where I work (including me!) We're now being asked (=told!) to drive office cars & vans, which was something we have never had to do before & I have done 25 years in the job! It's all to do with "greater efficiency"(=cost saving!) All the vehicles are well maintained & fully insured-that's not the problem! I hold a full licence & took my test in 1977, so can drive up to 7.5 tonnes and I used to hold HGV1, but this has lapsed now. As I see it, and many of my colleagues think the same, the firm didn't pay for my driving lessons or test and as I'm bringing something extra "to the table" (I HATE that phrase!) I ought to be rewarded in some way. I've spoken to a very helpful (& I mean that!) person at D.V.L.A. and one is allowed to change one's licence from a manual to an automatic only one, for no charge. As all the firm's cars are manuals, I would not be permitted to drive the vehicles at work and as I drive an automatic Citroën Xantia it would make no difference to me in the short run. One may re-apply for the manual entitlement to be put back on one's licence, again with no charge, and without having to take the manual test again. Is this a bit of a drastic step, though? I wondered if any other Autoshiters had felt pressured from employers to do drive vehicles at work when it was not part of their job before & if so, how they dealt with it.
Skizzer Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Changing your licence sounds rather extreme. Is it really such a terrible thing, doing a bit of driving in a company vehicle? Andrew353w, CGSB, stripped fred and 2 others 5
anonymous user Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what the question is, do you already drive your own car for work but get paid expenses, or do no driving at all and are now expected to go out? Was it in your job description to hold a full driving licence? I'd be delighted if my employer allowed me something to use for site visits and sod the expenses.And despite reassurances from DVLA I'm not sure if I would trust them to reinstate groups on my licence at a later date Edited July 7, 2015 by anonymous user alf892, warren t claim and theorganist 3
Andrew353w Posted July 7, 2015 Author Posted July 7, 2015 Changing your licence sounds rather extreme. Is it really such a terrible thing, doing a bit of driving in a company vehicle?Yes, Skizzer, you may be right. I could be over-reacting, but I've an employer who DOES take the piss...
Richard Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 When I was asked to do deliveries in my last job I jumped at the chance. If you are driving all day every day for work, as I more or less do now, it's different, but getting to go off for half a day a couple of times a week was money for nothing as far as I was concerned. theorganist and Lacquer Peel 2
Asimo Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Surely new duties require new contract? If you don't want to do it, don't. Employers are mostly bastards at heart who still resent the end of slavery. mercrocker, Luckythirteen and Lord Sterling 3
twosmoke300 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 If your fed up with your employer taking the piss then leave . warren t claim, Skizzer, theorganist and 2 others 5
dollywobbler Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 This needs more explanation. If you're already driving, just not in their vehicles, then they have every right to choose what they see as a more sensible option. Which is why when I worked for a classic car magazine, they'd usually hire a horrible, brand new car for me to drive to appointments in rather than let me use my own classic car and just pay expenses. I once had to drive a BMW X5 with a private plate. It was utterly horrible. But not quite as horrible as the Peugeot 3008. If they're suddenly turfing you out on the road to drive when you didn't previously, then it's a contract issue. They can't just demand you start doing something you didn't sign up for.
Skizzer Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 From what you've said, it sounds like the real issue is you don't want to work for them (because they take the piss) rather than you actually mind doing the driving. What I'd do is, do the driving, add it to your CV, and get another job ASAP. There are better employers out there. mat_the_cat and Andrew353w 2
Andrew353w Posted July 7, 2015 Author Posted July 7, 2015 From what you've said, it sounds like the real issue is you don't want to work for them (because they take the piss) rather than you actually mind doing the driving. What I'd do is, do the driving, add it to your CV, and get another job ASAP. There are better employers out there.Take up psychiatry, you may well have hit the nail on the head..... Skizzer 1
NorfolkNWeigh Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I once had to drive a BMW X5 with a private plate. It was utterly horrible.That's terrible, I'm sure the trafficked prostitutes,cockle pickers and abused domestic slaves,not to mention 6 year old Bangladeshis making trainers are thinking of you and the traumas you've endured to eke out a living, just for our entertainment. theorganist, Timewaster, 500tops and 1 other 4
inconsistant Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 You could tell your employer you've got an automatic only licence, but then not be able to find it... Cavcraft 1
colnerov Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Hi, this is not a driving issue, this is an employment issue. Don't 'damage' your licence because of this. What does your contract of employment say? Is there a job description? Does it mention being required to drive? Is there any mention of being asked to do any reasonable request? Do you think being asked to do driving is reasonable? Is driving becoming the main part of your job,i.e. not what you were originally employed to do? Is what you did originally more highly skilled than driving? Ask them if they really want someone with your skill set driving around the countryside. You need to articulate valid reasons why you don't want to drive. Don't just go in and stamp your foot and say you don't want to do it. You could be seen as being obstructive. Is there a union? If you're driving for the company then they need to inspect your licence every 6 months, They can do it online but they need your permission to do it. Sorry if this is a bit disjointed but I was typing it as I thought of it. Colin Andrew353w 1
The Moog Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Normally there is a unilateral clause in most contracts now that employers can change t &cs if they wish. Of course this has to be reasonable. If there isn't then it must be agreed by both sides. If there is a business case for the change and it doesn't have indirect discrimination attached e.g. a disability which means you would be disadvantaged by the change it is quite hard to argue against. Also most contracts include an other duties clause, which may well cover it depending on the role. One argument may be is that you are a nervous driver and find driving to new places hard. They would then have to take reasonable steps. stillOrange 1
Cavcraft Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I'm not sure how asking you to drive a vehicle constitutes a new contract or (major) change to working conditions, unless you end up doing completely different hours and/or working over. I wonder how keen they'd be if you kept having the odd accident by backing into walls at work, after all vans are different to cars and if they put you in a car you're not used, you might slip of the clutch or find visibility restricted.When the (UK wide) tyre company I worked for pissed me off, I just spent all my time trying to wreck our (possibly yellow) Transit pick-ups by constant abuse.
GiftedButLazy Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I hold a full licence & took my test in 1977, so can drive up to 7.5 tonnes and I used to hold HGV1, but this has lapsed now. As I see it, and many of my colleagues think the same, the firm didn't pay for my driving lessons or test and as I'm bringing something extra "to the table" (I HATE that phrase!) I ought to be rewarded in some way. Automatic 7.5 tonne entitlement is for non commercial use only, making you drive anything over 3.5 tonnes would be illegal. The fact you did have HGV 1 probably means you can though, I'm not exactly sure what expires. Do they know you had HGV 1? Are the vans over 3.5 tonnes?
twosmoke300 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 What a militant bunch on here , changing licences so they don't have to drive for work , writing shitty letters to Honda cos their car wasn't first in the queue for a recall and protesting all parking tickets . I'm all for standing up for yourselves but jeez . 😄 barefoot, Twiggy, nacho man and 9 others 12
BavarianRetro Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Yes, Skizzer, you may be right. I could be over-reacting, but I've an employer who DOES take the piss...But you've stayed there for 25 years?! Can't be that bad. theorganist 1
New POD Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I once moved jobs where they enforced more vigourously the "any journey over 50 miles and you must use a pool car or hire car" rule that Lucas Industries had, but different sites applied with differing amounts of vigour and found that my "pay" dropped considerably, because I was no longer making an excessive amount of money using my own POS. I was following the bangernomics approach to making money on the travel. Car with zero depreciation, over 2.0 Litres, to obtain 35p a mile and not 22p a mile of the under 1.5 litre. and hack it into the ground. When the new job within the same corp insisted I use a pool car, I spent 10 mins before every journey finding faults. After that I just arranged my trips so I'd either need to take the car on a Friday for an early start on Monday or Get back "too" late on Friday and have to keep the car over the weekend. And then put 600 miles on it, going to visit relatives.
worldofceri Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 For their own insurance they will need to inspect your licence before allowing you to drive a company vehicle. You could refuse to produce it if you don't want to drive, and I don't see how they could discipline you for that unless they change your terms of employment. At my place of work we have a 3.5t van driver who actually has entitlement up to 7.5t under grandfather rights. He has been asked many times if he will drive the 7.5 tonners, but he will need a tachograph card for this which he refuses to apply for (even though the company will pay for it). So, he stays a van driver.
Pillock Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Automatic 7.5 tonne entitlement is for non commercial use only, making you drive anything over 3.5 tonnes would be illegal. The fact you did have HGV 1 probably means you can though, I'm not exactly sure what expires. Do they know you had HGV 1? Are the vans over 3.5 tonnes? Really? That's interesting, we recruit a lot of older drivers to save on the cost of putting them through the new test to add 7.5t. Is there anywhere to show this non-commercial clause as I might be earning some brownie points if I point that out now rather than wait for a VOSA tug. We do get VOSAed quite regularly though and it's never come up. As for the OP, I think we need more info. Do you already drive your own car for work, or are you in a non-driving role? What's the reason you want to avoid driving - is it because you don't want to drive, or because they're not compensating you for your extra talent? So far I can see a few options - leave and find a new job if this one isn't suiting you, suck it up and do what they ask, or look on the bright side - you get paid to drive around, "getting stuck in traffic", not under a constant watch of what you're doing. My days where I do a lot of miles are my good days, I can stop for a snack or just park up and chill for a bit, I drive different ways to places to just make every day different. It's the bit in between where I have to interact with people that sucks. Twiggy, mat_the_cat and nacho man 3
worldofceri Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Come to think of it, at a place I worked previously, there was a bloke who never drove the company vans as he couldn't or wouldn't produce his licence. He drove to work every day though so no-one was really sure whether he had one or not.
worldofceri Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Really? That's interesting, we recruit a lot of older drivers to save on the cost of putting them through the new test to add 7.5t. Is there anywhere to show this non-commercial clause as I might be earning some brownie points if I point that out now rather than wait for a VOSA tug. We do get VOSAed quite regularly though and it's never come up. I you drive anything over 3.5t commercially nowadays you need a Driver CPC card. There may be exceptions for certain industries/activities but not many. Grandfather rights to the CPC expired last year so the OP won't have one, I presume. I think this is what G.B. Lazy is referring to. alf892 1
Spiny Norman Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Does al sound a lot of fuss over not very much from the info given, but we don't know how much OP hates his employer.My firm once offered me a company vehicle, but when I found out it was going to be a Diesel Fiesta van I said no thanks and carried on using my own car to get to work and taking the odd £20 for petrol when I used it on company business.
Pillock Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I you drive anything over 3.5t commercially nowadays you need a Driver CPC card. There may be exceptions for certain industries/activities but not many. Grandfather rights to the CPC expired last year so the OP won't have one, I presume. I think this is what G.B. Lazy is referring to. Aaah that'll be OK if it's that - we do our own CPC assessment as we have hundreds of drivers.
Christine Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 If you take a firms van home , you're entitled to syphon fuel out of it tooSavvy, Vince70 and Taff 3
eddyramrod Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Come to think of it, at a place I worked previously, there was a bloke who never drove the company vans as he couldn't or wouldn't produce his licence. He drove to work every day though so no-one was really sure whether he had one or not. Refusal to produce your licence should be immediate dismissal. I saw a drunk driver kill a cyclist in 1989. He was driving a company van, which was a requirement for his job, but nobody had checked his licence. He was serving his second ban. Employers need to tighten up. I'd happily produce my licence every month if it meant one pisstaker like that got caught before he could kill someone. alf892, Twiggy and cms206 3
castros_bro Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 My employer (in the 1980) decided i had to drive their stuff so I gave them my licence which they photocopied then jumped into their M type Bedford and bunny hopped away. my licence was a UK Full licence but only for Motorcycles. In mitigation I had spent years driving M type Bedfords in Africa then later took tests for got car/HGV1/ADR
Andrew353w Posted July 7, 2015 Author Posted July 7, 2015 I'm grateful for everyoe's input! As to staying 25 years, the job's only "gone west" since 2012, and since then many older staff (older than me, that is!) have walked! I'm considering things and really do appreciate the thoughts you have had. It is perhaps a case of the straw and the camel's back! Thanks again, chums!
Timewaster Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 DO NOT whatever you do alter your licence to spite the company. If the DVLA backtrack and you end up in a BSM Corsa, don't blame me beko1987 and The Moog 2
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