Privilege!!!! a great article about shiting

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I dont know how many of you read TTAC, its not as good as it was a while back when they had a guy writing for them who worked for Volkswagens publicity dept in the 70's, but its still a very good 'intelligent' car site IMO and I check it most days.

 

Last week they had an absolutely GR9 article about livin' the shite lifestyle and how/why its just not possible for huge chunks of the population. We love to despair at folk who tip a seemingly large amount of money into a dull modern tin box every month but this article reminds us all what you have to invest beforehand to be able to live a life of shite (its a lot!) and I think it should be compulsory reading to remind  all shiters to stay humble about how lucky they are to be able to live outside the new car 'system'.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/02/no-fixed-abode-gotta-rich-cheap-car/

[twosmoke300]

A well written and eye opening piece that . I had never thought about it in that way but then again I'm a qualified mechanic with all the tools I could ever need and spare vehicles coming out of my ears .

[cort16]

I've never seen that website there's some good reads on there. I don't think you've lived the shitters life until you own 5+ cars and none of them are working or road worthy and you need to get the bus .

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Yes,it's a good article. But it's assuming the 'privileged' person is driving shite from choice. It's all very well saying anyone can sign up for a new car for £300 a month, but, in this country anyway, that's not the case. Chances are if you're on minimum wage and just about paying rent ,that retro* X reg Fiesta is not being kept going on a shoestring because of inverted snobbery or bangernomics ,it's because it's all you can afford and when it fucks up you'll be on the bus- not something that's usually an option for Septics.

I'd go so far as to say a lot Autoshiters are privileged enough to have a modern reliable*car available, whether that be company( car or van) ,wife's or parent's , but those that don't probably don't feel privileged when they have to lie in the cold and wet under some rusty old tat or they can't go to work tomorrow. I'm thinking they'd love to sell out and have £3,000 and £399 a month available to be a sheep in a white Audi Spunkline and just tinker with chod when the sun shines .

I feel massively privileged to have choices in life and cars are just part of that.

[dollywobbler]

I can see where the author is coming from, but I'm not sure I entirely agree. It would be fine if all old cars were unreliable snotters, and all new cars were miraculously faithful, but we know that's not true. What if you've managed to scrape enough cash together every month to cover a finance deal, but then the clutch goes? DMF time too, you're utterly screwed. Or tyres. Even new cars can have punctures, and your warranty is unlikely to cover that. Also, if new cars were so impervious to faults, surely breakdown services would have gone bankrupt by now? Worse. Some failure could render the car f*cked, and you're stuck still paying for it. 

 

I also dispute that you need to be a mechanic to run old shite. Yes, it certainly helps if you can diagnose whether than horrible noise is a reason to stop, or a reason to speak to your mate at the garage next week, but I haven't got those skills by working at a garage. No, I've done it with trial, error, internet advice and good old hope. I've been running old shite for many, many years and sure, I was privileged to be able to send them to a garage for repairs when needed, but in reality, I wasn't doing so every five minutes. Even when I was relying on them for daily duty.

 

I'll accept that children can chance your perspective on the world, but frankly, having them is a privilege - and a choice. For the most part.

 

I am very grateful that I can have the life I choose, but to be honest, there's no way I could afford to do anything different with cars, so I'm kind-of forced to drive what I do too.

[MarvinsMom]

that article has made me think that i'm lucky to be able to live a shitters life.

 

i don't have any kids, or a mortgage and a selection of vehicles to choose from should the unthinkable actually happen, plus not having any family ties i can spend time putting shite right when it goes wrong, assuming i can...

 

as kids that what my dad had to do at times, other times he got someone to do things for him.i do the same diffecult things i pay someone to do it for me, and i can spend on parts if needed.

 

it is a thought provoking article, thanks for shearing it (i wouldn't want to be into any of the leasing crap though, ever)

[wuvvum]

Well I certainly wouldn't describe myself as well off, although I could doubtless cobble together enough to buy a new Dacia Sandero or Suzuki Alto on the knock.  It's true though that not having to work long hours (at least not by American standards) or worry about kids does make it easier for me to indulge in buggering about with old snotters - with just myself to worry about I couldn't give a flying fuck about NCAP ratings and other things that parents lose sleep over.  Also the fact that I own as many as I do means that (barring a meteorite strike or something equally extreme) there's always going to be at least one that's in good enough health to get me to work of a morning.

 

Having said that, I have no "official" mechanical knowledge - everything I do know how to do I've picked up by trial and error over the years; and my entire tool collection probably cost me about £150 (and that's including the compressor and the welder), so from that point of view my investment hasn't been particularly huge. 

 

The article still makes a good point though - it's certainly true that not everyone is "privileged" enough (in terms of time at least, if not in terms of money) for it to be practical for them to run nothing but old tat.

[Justin Case]

For many people leasing is  a good alternative, a Skoda Citigo at £110 per month plus six months deposit  makes most other things including a boring BMW diesel at £300 a month seem a stupid choice, but a lot of people just haven't got the credit history to get a deal like that, so it has to be a shite alternative. A  well looked after basic Fiesta or Yaris for a few hundred is unlikely to be an unrelaiable money pit, and will be cheap to run as well as buy, even if you don't know one end of a screwdriver from the other. I suppose though that a Rover 800 or Jaguar XJR for a few hundred is really an indulgence(sorry folks, but on the other hand some on here are realistic enough to look on them in that way )

 

True shite motoring is to get something in good nick but with absolutely zero image, a decent Hyundai Accent or Kia Magentis costs peanuts but is unlikely to let you down when you are taking a child to hospital or are going to a job interview.

[catsinthewelder]

What a load of bollocks, " Also, I had a $400 toolbox available. Privilege!"  because a $9.99 one from Wal-Mart or whatever wouldn't have been any use to change a radiator.

 

I accept that it would be foolish for somebody with very little money to run a £1000 Porsche instead of a middle aged Polo or whatever, particularly if they really needed it to get to work. But claiming that old bangers are a rich persons hobby is just bullshit.

 

On the subject of 'think of the children etc' most working class families that I know tend to live close to their extended family so are probably in a better position to scrounge a lift/babysitting than the middle classes who have moved there for a certain job.

[forddeliveryboy]

Mmm. I think this article is living proof of how the skilled, resourceful chap who had no desire to be a wealth-accumulator has steadily been eroded of what not so very long ago would have been classed as totally fundamental abilities. There's very little on machines from the late 80s and older which any bloke with sufficient incentive couldn't repair with the aid of the scrapyard, but today although mechanics' skills are arguably dumbed down today, who can even do the simplest thing without specialist gear? That's called big business.

 

The word 'Privilege' is very well used in the article and to me only exemplifies a society which knows the value of nothing and the price of everything. Total Bollox, it's no way to evolve. Crap bit of writing, only to further subsume those with an insufficiency of gumption.

[vulgalour]

If you have to run a car you make sacrifices elsewhere.  I don't buy new things, I don't socialise in pubs and the like, it's beyond my means if I want a car and the freedom and convenience attached to it.  Even when I had more money from a regular job I wasn't able to afford a financed new thing, I had to have something reliable and cheap and old, and I still didn't have money to socialise or buy new things because the cost of getting to and from work ate up any bonus it offered me financially.

 

In America it is different, the country depends on the car far more heavily than we do and running a rotten old clunker is quite often impossible when you're on limited means.  Trouble is, it's also pretty impossible to get public transport anywhere in some places, so you end up stuck whatever decision you make.

 

Owning an old car and keeping it going can be a rich man's game, very much, but more often than not that simply isn't the case.  If I had £300-400 a month spare my old cars would be as good as new ones and still be cheaper to run.

[robinmasters]

Whilst I don't disagree with everything he says (and he does make some valid points), his conclusions are all wrong.

 

We all know new cars do break down, and when they do 90% of the time you don't have a hope in hell of fixing it by the roadside (15°, dark or otherwise), and getting someone else to fix it involves having someone plug a laptop into it for £££. And you still have to pay for it to be recovered out of your second McJob wages.

 

If you decide to run slightly older cars you invest in tools regularly. You spend some of that $300-$400 a month building up a decent toolbox. You're paying a fixed sum of money for the certainty that you will have the right spanner to change your leaky radiator. You also read forums, books of lies, etc, so that when something does break you know exactly how to fix something else, which hasn't.

 

Finally, and this is exactly what I do, hypothetically, you put what's left of the $300-$400 a month after you've bought a socket set and a big hammer, and put it in a savings account to pay for the 'unexpected bills'.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I think a few of you are misjudging it. He's not saying that old cars are a rich persons hobby, he's just saying that certain boxes need to be ticked in your life for running them to be an option. You do need to understand a bit about how they work, and you do need a few tools, and you do need to be able to use them from time to time even if its just for basic stuff. You do need to be ready to buy a starter motor or a battery at shortish notice. Some folk just don't have space in their lives for that lot and for them shiting would be an expensive and frustrating lifestyle. Those people are rightly much better off with a single monthly payment and no 'surprise' bills coming up. I think the article just eloquently points out a few things that us shiters take for granted.

[STUNO]

That article is pure garbage. It relates to buying a  Lexus 400  with 7-800,000 miles done. What repairs had been carried out in that time ? Don't even try saying nothing ! The only thing that went wrong with it was that the top rad. hose and the Radiator connection (plastic) came off, hence the new radiator. There is some mention of potential gearbox problems, but that is all. The writer seems to think that paying $300 a month for a new car is better and even potentially cheaper, your childrens life may depend on it. How about the same person putting $100 a month into a repair fund.

Look down the coments too. One person bought a new 2008 Mazda, it sounds like the clutch went at some time and she was charged $2000 to replace it (DMF?). In fact she may have scrapped it, she isn't clear about what she did ! But the outcome from her seems to be buy new and buy often, that will save money !

I say the writer has no experience of running an older piece of shite and was just having a bit of fun in someone else's car for a few days.

Verbal rant over, my mind still has to recover from the smell of garbage.

[Partridge]

RFN is my new favorite phrase.

 

It's very true. I could run a brand new Eurobox on tick now I some credit scorz but I'd rather eat wasps. Running a car you like is a luxury in itself. But by running that car I'm probably worse off, and I'm mentally preparing myself how to tell my Mrs the money I was going to use to buy her a Valentines day treat is going on a new radiator.

 

Newer cars are seen as a luxury, when it's quite correct older cars are most often more indulgent. My mate has newish Civic. His costs this month including fuel and maintenance? £190. Mine? I don't even want to think about it, and I've not even had it a month...But I don't care. With less spare cash I'm boozing less and have cut down on junk food anyway.

[jakebullet]

I used to run a £100 fiesta in my stoodant days. It wasn't a privilege, and you didn't need all the things he thinks you need.

 

Blow it up? Phone your mate to bring the washing line. You know, the one you towed home last week.

 

You don't need the big tool box and huge education to fix it. Read the haynes book of lies, go to the scrappy and practise taking their car apart first. Hope that John's pricing instead of that expensive twat Steve, come home and repeat what you've learned. Even if you get something major like engine blows the parts are cheap, and with enough mates you can figure it out.

[Partridge]

Depends on the car you're running I guess. A 106 is going to be a lot cheaper to run and put right than a luxo barge - no shit Sherlock moment, there.

[chodweaver]

There's some food for thought in that article, granted, but my ethos for many years extends to white goods too - I'm uncomfortable having domestic appliances, no scratch that - I'm uncomfortable owning anything that I completely take for granted and that any month out of the year can crap out - leaving me with an unexpected extra £300 expense because it's disposable/can't be fixed/is uneconomic to repair. And that ethos I got from my Dad, but I don't think I've imbued my kids with it.

 

But there's a balance still being maintained here - while Joe Average's upbringing is much less likely to include even learning how to repair a push bike and accumulating tools is now seen as a curious hobby rather than a sensible expedience, t'internet gives access to a more-than-compensating knowledge base - find out what's crapped out; where you can get a replacement cheaply; what tools you're going to need; where to buy the tools cheaply and how to do it. Or even to put you in touch with a like minded public spirited soul who lives close enough by to actually help you do it for tea and biscuits.

Anyone else heard this? I hope it's not an urban myth: with any car, it's taken more energy to make it than it will ever use in fuel no matter how much mileage it clocks up. So the greenest thing is not to scrap it and lease a new Priapus. The greenest thing is to fix it.

[Jim Bergerac]

It's not the new car buyers/leasers that I struggle to understand. They have the safety net of a warranty that will cover a lot of issues. If they have the money and want it good for them.

 

It's people who spend not inconsiderable sums buying a used car that I can't understand. With a £500 (or less) snotter you always have the luxury of not losing that much if it suffers a major failure. You can happily send it over the bridge and buy your next banger. When you sink £5,000 into a car and get stuck with massive repair bill, even if it's into four figures your sunk cost means you have to repair it. I'd also say that a £500 1998 Astra is probably going to have far less to go wrong, less expensively than a £5,000 2008 Astra does.

 

I actually think the article writer makes a good point it's just less applicable to us in the UK. As far as I'm aware, it's much easier to get 'easy finance' in the states than it is here. In the UK, sub-prime people just wouldn't get finance on a new car, they'd end up in the £5,000 used car camp I mention above. Second, the UK car market probably has a far greater wealth of cheap cars than the US one. I know some friends of mine who live in foreign parts are amazed what £notalot can get you in Britain, as opposed to what they can buy where they live.

[drum]

I don't know if privilege is the right word, but I agree with much of it and it was well written, so thanks for posting Mr Balls.

 

Running bangers isn't for everyone.

 

Most people I know don't have the mindset to fix things. I'm glad that I do. Call it a privilege, call it what you like.

If others are too lazy or spoiled to bother with the hassel of old cars, then I'm glad I'm not like them.

 

Having said that, I understand why some people need new and reliable. My wife, mother, sister can't be arsed with running unreliable shitheaps. That doesn't mean they're lazy or spoiled. Many people haven't got an aptitude for keeping old cars on the road. Maybe having this aptitude is a privilege.

 

My work place car park is full of moderns, most of which will be on lease or loan deals. A colleague has a Picasso as a second car which has failed its mot on rot. They are faced with a £400 bill to fix it. If it was mine I could weld it up for £40 and a Sunday lying on my back on the drive, but I understand that not everyone can or would even want to.

 

Some people are good at diy and can maintain their house, fit new kitchens, build extensions on the cheap. They are lucky buggers/privileged. Most of us have to pay lots of money for tradesmen.

[Junkman]

Brainwashed drivel, the whole piece.

[twosmoke300]

I think Sandie has a valid point that it's the middle ground cars that have the potential to cause the most finiancial grief .

If a 500 pound shitter goes wrong it gets bridged and you loose about 400max . A 16 grand 11 plate freelander ( using my mate as an example ) is just asking for grief as you get trapped into getting it repaired because you have already "invested " so much into it .

To me it's either shite or new with warranty that makes sense to the man on the street .

[Richard]

I've been running old shitters most of my life, and with most of the baggage he talks about. I've had children, a crappy job to go to, no money in the bank, limited time on my hands etc. and I've made it work. I suppose I'm privileged in being born with the potential to deal with all of that- lucky, because I wasn't born with the potential to earn enough money for a new car. It wasn't easy though, and it was a huge load off my mind when I got a job with a van seven years ago.

 

My car is no longer required for commuting, and that is a massive privilege. People have been suckered into longer and longer commutes, to the point where just getting to work eats up a large proportion of their income. Even at my banger level it was about 20% of my wage, with monthly payments to worry about it would have been close to a third.

[burraston2006]

 

 People have been suckered into longer and longer commutes, to the point where just getting to work eats up a large proportion of their income. Even at my banger level it was about 20% of my wage, with monthly payments to worry about it would have been close to a third.

Absolutely spot on. My commute is 80 miles a day and I have no choice. Can't afford to move closer so every day I get in the car and say two prayers: 1. Please start and 2. Please get me to work. At the moment the prayers seem to be working, however the car is mis-firing on one cylinder. Luckily there's another 5 to keep the car going but I can't afford to get it looked at. I've done the basic checks but that is all I can do. No Hum I'll just keep praying!

[alf892]

I would disagree that an old car is unreliable........as long as it is well maintained there is no reason for it to be.

 

There aren't many real shiters anyway.........as DW says a real shiter runs shite because he/she has too. And they don't have a fleet either...........that requires cash.

 

Most older stuff seems to get run as 'hobby' cars.

 

I think most of you lot are quite wealthy............

[dollywobbler]

Take my wife for example. When I met her, she knew f*ck all about cars, but she did know that finance is a world best avoided, so she shedded around in a proper old snotter of a Citroen AX. When it went wrong, she took it to the local garage. It was her only form of transport, but she accepted that because it was so much cheaper than buying a new car. Really, it's a bloody privilege to be able to afford to buy a new car!

 

The article is too black and white, even if I can see where he's coming from. He presents old snotters vs something pretty much brand new. It'd have to be brand new to avoid the 'surprise' expenses he talks about. To get the jitters about an old car, because he had a minor breakdown in a car with almost 800,000 miles on it is just stupid.

[burraston2006]

 

 

I think most of you lot are quite wealthy............

I've checked the back of the sofa and all my coat pockets but I still can't find the money! Can you please give me a clue!!

[Partridge]

There's two ways of looking at it:

 

a) have a new car and be rogered up the bum every month for something uninspiring and depressing, but get better fuel economy and you can be relatively sure it will start in the morning. But loose more money when you chop it in.

 

b ) buy shite outright, with your own money. Chances are it will be a lot more interesting than a 318d, Corsa etc etc. Spend quite a lot on fuel and maintaining it, but then not loose a massive chunk of cash when you sell it.

 

It doesn't matter how you look at it, running a car is expensive if your income is average or below.

 

Alfa, I know what you're saying. I'm not wealthy, but I'm "doing OK". I'm probably slightly better off than most 21 year olds, but then again I don't go clubbing and chuck several gallons of booze down my neck every Wednesday and Friday and I keep my outgoings low (I have one direct debit, that's the car tax). My lifestyle choices allow me to run a hobby car.

 

But like you say, I don't have to run an older car. I just don't like the idea of not owning my car, and I'm enthusiast so I'm not going to have a "normal" car. I only commute into work three days a week on average,  and the train is always a viable option...

[UltraWomble]

I tend to work on the fact that if a car will do me X amount of years based on what I have paid then Im a happy bunny - currently I try and work on £500/year in terms of depreciation  - so if I pay £1000 for a car I expect 2 years out of it - anything else is a bonus.

 

Thats not 2 years sans maintenance  but 2 years sans major breakdown or grenadage. Of course it doesnt always work out  like that. Im also very very lucky that I live only a few miles from work and can either bike it in ( would kill me) or get a lift of a work mate in a dire emergency. One of the reasons I didnt change jobs in the end was that I was looking at a 45 minute commute to the new job over a 10 minute one now.

[mercrocker]

I was fairly happy running a modern on finance when I was in my 20s.   Modern then meant 3 year old Citroen GSAs and nearly new Chevettes (a car no more difficult to service than an F Type Victor).   I had those alongside rusty Zephyrs and knackered BMC chod and they enabled me to get to work to earn enough money to live the chod dream and gave us security for new parenting as we were then.   When I got divorced I celebrated by binning off the Chevette for a 1979 Pontiac and a £25 Cortina and haven't financed a car since 1990.   Co-incidentally that seems to be about the last time I could bring myself to drive any of the moderns that were then on offer.