Six Cylinders Motoring Notes - a Workshop Day Today

[Andyrew]

Ill try and find something if a pic can be obatained. Im going with anything old and lucas based. It depends on how man connections

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Ill try and find something if a pic can be obatained. Im going with anything old and lucas based. It depends on how man connections

engine and all related ancillaries is from Austria/Europe just keep that in mind!

is "starter relay" not the same thing as a starter solenoid then?

[Zelandeth]

Exhibit A: Model 70 Starter Solenoid.

[Six-cylinder]

11 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Exhibit A: Model 70 Starter Solenoid.

@Andyrew

[Talbot]

12 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

is "starter relay" not the same thing as a starter solenoid then?

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, Talbot said:

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Generally, No.  A starter relay is exactly that, a massive relay that can switch the hundreds of amps needed for a recoil-engage starter (or a dynastart), but does nothing else.

Pre-engaged starters, however, have a starter solenoid, which is essentially a solenoid and relay in one unit, but generally referred to as just a starter solenoid.

Worth making the distinction, as there are quite a few cars with starter solenoids that also have a starter relay to switch the current needed for the starter solenoid.  These are just normal small automotive relays though, not the sort that will energise a recoil-type starter.

ah interesting  good to know!

 

as mentioned I THINK there may be what we are looking for in box 2 of the spares stash, perhaps one for @Mrs6C to look out for next time she is rummaging around there?  

 

but yeah will be interesting to see what @Andyrew can dig up  

[Andyrew]

 

[Andyrew]

Claires looks somethig like that

[Talbot]

21 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

That is a Starter Relay tho, Shirley?, not a solenoid. (the system I mentioned and referred to as a recoil-type starter.)

[Six-cylinder]

7 minutes ago, Talbot said:

That is a Starter Relay tho, Shirley?, not a solenoid. (the system I mentioned and referred to as a recoil-type starter.)

That is the strange thing, they were always called solenoids!

Yes I now understand it is a relay but if you asked for a relay for a triumph Herald starter nobody would know what you were talking about.

Edit - looking on Rimmer Bro site they are still calling them solenoids.

[Mrs6C]

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

[Six-cylinder]

2 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

The starting from a manual button on the solenoid was only on the older original ones, the replacements I sold in the early 1980s did not have the manual button and only worked with the key.

[Mr Pastry]

26 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

The starting from a manual button on the solenoid was only on the older original ones, the replacements I sold in the early 1980s did not have the manual button and only worked with the key.

The manual starter button was deleted as a safety precaution when automatic transmissions were introduced.

[hairnet]

38 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Looks like a Lucas 76766, the kind that Triumph Heralds have. If so, the centre should be a push button to be able to spin the starter and/or the car remotely if the ignition is on.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

NERD ENGAGED

Chris do as yer told ?

[wuvvum]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

Also there are systems like my old Triumph that has a "starter solenoid" but this is only really a relay, low current is used to operate a high current switch. With this type of starter the rotation of the starter sends the bendix (cog) out on a spiral to engage with the flywheel. 

Going even more basic, there was the setup like the one on my old Ford 100E where what looks like a solenoid isn't actually a solenoid at all, it's just a massive switch with the full starter current running through it and the cable from the starter button acts directly on the switch contacts.

[Zelandeth]

I am now glad to report that the Trevi has a fully working heating and ventilation system, including the air distribution controls.

[Six-cylinder]

1 hour ago, wuvvum said:

Going even more basic, there was the setup like the one on my old Ford 100E where what looks like a solenoid isn't actually a solenoid at all, it's just a massive switch with the full starter current running through it and the cable from the starter button acts directly on the switch contacts.

Early Minis had a starter button on the floor as well that you used to manually connect the starter cable together with.

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Early Minis had a starter button on the floor as well that you used to manually connect the starter cable together with.

pretty sure at least one Model 70 had something like that fitted, see bottom left! (either that or its a foot operated windscreen washer setup?)

[hairnet]

ello

need to do an oil change to mx5

are there any places in buckingham that would do that on saturday morning - due to issues up here dont wanna take car to place here - not them or car related)

have oil have filter

thanks

@Andyrew - booked car in on Tuesday thinking they'd say some time this week

Nope - Thursday next week

Thanks for offer - we give you cake anyway

[chaseracer]

6 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I wonder what a 21st century Trevi might look like if being designed now?

 

6 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

A cloned Chrysler?

A rebadged Dodge Dart?  Which is itself in essence an Alfa Giulietta.  So it might not be too bad... ?

The Chrysler 200 was flogged in Europe as the Lancia Flavia - for about ten minutes - some years back.

[chaseracer]

10 minutes ago, hairnet said:

ello

need to do an oil change to mx5

are there any places in buckingham that would do that on saturday morning - due to issues up here dont wanna take car to place here - not them or car related)

have oil have filter

thanks

We could do it at the FoD... ?

[hairnet]

how much cake and tea would i need to sort

 

[Andyrew]

7 minutes ago, hairnet said:

how much cake and tea would i need to sort

 

Depends on quality of the tea and biscuits. 

Choose wisely. 

Tetley tea and own brand rich tea biscuits = cross threaded oil filter and the sumplug left loose. 

 

[Zelandeth]

Went to start the Trevi up having replaced a vacuum hose that was found to be decomposing. *Click* then there was no electricity.

Didn't take long to find the thankfully simple cause...

Sorted now!

 

[hairnet]

10 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Depends on quality of the tea and biscuits. 

Choose wisely. 

Tetley tea and own brand rich tea biscuits = cross threaded oil filter and the sumplug left loose. 

 

never done tetley and no dis rich tea biccies - own brand you get more and they last longer (how?)

i dont have fortnum and masons ones :D

obvs pieces of paper with the queens head will be available :)

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

9 minutes ago, hairnet said:

.... pieces of paper with the queens head will be available

What, second class stamps?

[hairnet]

13 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

What, second class stamps?

Don't think he'd take these

[Talbot]

38 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Depends on quality of the tea and biscuits. 

Choose wisely. 

Tetley tea and own brand rich tea biscuits = cross threaded oil filter and the sumplug left loose. 

 

What would a decent twinings tea or maybe Yorkshire tea plus a pack of chocolate hob-nobs achieve I wonder...

[Andyrew]

30 minutes ago, hairnet said:

never done tetley and no dis rich tea biccies - own brand you get more and they last longer (how?)

i dont have fortnum and masons ones

obvs pieces of paper with the queens head will be available

 

Happy to chuck the oil suction pump and an oil filter tool in the car to bring with me if you wanted to change it. 

Im over on the sunday.  Ping me a message if you needed an other service parts.