Cars you didn't know existed until very recently.

[TheOtherStu]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:02 PM, Wack said:

The £33k Ford Toyota RS200 something

I think it's a Toyota with ford bits on but I'm not really sure , it does however seem quite expensive for an old Toyota

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/266843055819900/

Now, see, this is where the bollocks kicks in (you'll probably know I know a fair bit about MR2 Roadsters)

WHY would you take a high miler and turn it into some kind of "Tribute" (that's the name of the kit btw - it's a few grand, but an absolute ball-ache to fit and requires a hard top which a few years ago were £500 but now a decent one is £1200+)

Also, if you want to get this kind of money, why would you buy a bog standard 1ZZ 140bhp engine? It's a shit engine, known to burn oil once it's done a few miles if it's not maintained properly, which leads to the pre-cats breaking down, sucked into the engine and wallop!
And WHY are you hiding the number plates? What you have to hide? Oh I know, usual things - rusty subframe, emissions issues, faulty handbrake, seized calipers. That kind of thing.

I found another for sale. This is also a high miler (no idea why either, but at least it's a 1ZZ Turbo) and the reserve (based on the previous price it "sold" for) appears to be under £20k.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195804616187

 

Personally, if I were to do this, I'd be looking for a car with low mileage decent engine and going all out. Someone was selling a fairly standard MR2 Roadster with a 2GR 3.5 litre V6 engine (that's 317bhp and 400Nm of torque). It would then actually sound like something that might pull the skin off a rice pudding. To be fair, it was a lot of money.

Or at least use a low mileage 2ZZ engine. My car cost shite money (£1k) because it had 140k on the clock, but in cracking condition. I ripped out the engine (even though nothing wrong with it) and put a 50k 2ZZ in it and a new roof. It owes me less than £4k and it's got 190bhp and sounds like a motorbike at over 8,000 RPM.

[Richard_FM]

11 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

Mitsubishi Leo

3 wheeled cars were once common enough in Japan to get a special allocation of number plates, 3 wheeled pickups like this still do so.

[martc]

No2 in what I suspect will be a very short series of pick-ups made by Trabant...

The P60.

[Metal Guru]

11 minutes ago, MrGTI6 said:

The new Mitsubishi Colt, based on the Renault Clio.

Why don’t they just have  one car combining Clio with Colt.? Any suggestions?

[catsinthewelder]

1 hour ago, MrGTI6 said:

The new Mitsubishi Colt, based on the Renault Clio.

That is spectacularly half arsed, you can see the bottom of the Renault diamond under the Mitsubishi badge.

[quicksilver]

4 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

That is spectacularly half arsed, you can see the bottom of the Renault diamond under the Mitsubishi badge.

Please tell me that's not the finished article. It literally looks like someone bought some badges from the local Mitsubishi garage and stuck them on their Clio. 1/10 for badge-engineering effort.

[FakeConcern]

59 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said:

That is spectacularly half arsed, you can see the bottom of the Renault diamond under the Mitsubishi badge.

Better?

[EyesWeldedShut]

55 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

Better?

Nope - still a fugly, modern, blancmange blobby thing - might as well just make them all in the same mould and pop a different badge on them as they go out the door...

[somewhatfoolish]

Loving the "Mitsubishi" in Halfords plastic chrome letters across the tailgate; it was a definite sign of Rover circling the drain when they started doing that on the arse of their by-then rather tired 20 year old designs.

[bunglebus]

12 hours ago, Metal Guru said:

Why don’t they just have  one car combining Clio with Colt.? Any suggestions?

Cllt?

[bunglebus]

Ah you meant "Clot" of course

[D.E]

What's that thing in place of the Renault badge? A rear view camera? It looks pathetic.

[MorrisItalSLX]

I’d call it the Colio, because it needs to be eradicated.

[neil1971]

Hadn't heard of these before seeing this ad

[martc]

17 hours ago, neil1971 said:

Hadn't heard of these before seeing this ad

They were sold as Infiniti's here, I think yours is a later model which would have been a Q70, Infiniti M's were the previous generation Fuga. They can trace their roots back to Prince Motors who Nissan bought out in the '60's.

This is what a complete one looks like -

 

[adw1977]

On 10/06/2023 at 17:37, Metal Guru said:

Why don’t they just have  one car combining Clio with Colt.? Any suggestions?

Clit 

I suspect it will be very difficult to find one on the road. 

[adw1977]

Rover P5 2.6 litre.

(via British Leyland Chronicles on Facebook)

For export only, using a short stroke version of the 3 litre engine, it had tax advantages in some European markets.

Apparently there was a very short-lived 2.4 version as well!

Fakebook link

[Richard_FM]

2 hours ago, adw1977 said:

Rover P5 2.6 litre.

(via British Leyland Chronicles on Facebook)

For export only, using a short stroke version of the 3 litre engine, it had tax advantages in some European markets.

Apparently there was a very short-lived 2.4 version as well!

Fakebook link

I assume it was the same engine as used in Land Rovers.

[adw1977]

21 minutes ago, Richard_FM said:

I assume it was the same engine as used in Land Rovers.

The Facebook link describes it as a 2625cc engine "similar to that used in the Rover 110 (P4)"

There was something else I saw on Facebook recently that explained it all in more detail.  Inevitably I now can't find it!

[somewhatfoolish]

Just successive stretches of the same IOE 6 from the P4 75 and probably prior to that too. The Triumph cuckoo in the SD1 nest would be a nice transplant.

[Austat]

1972 Ford Mustang Olympic Sprint:

[sheffcortinacentre]

A friend's father had one of these in the late 90's

[adw1977]

I found the Facebook post about the smaller engined Rover P5 export models.   Taken with permission from James Taylor Roverphile on Facebook:

"TAX-BREAK SPECIALS

Rover had accepted the need to make minor modifications to its cars and Land Rovers for overseas markets during the 1950s, typically providing different lighting arrangements to meet local regulations. But it would be the 1960s before they created special models for overseas.

It seems to have been William Martin-Hurst who initiated a new approach after he joined Rover in 1960, progressing from Production Director to Deputy Managing Director and then in 1962 to Managing Director. He was the one who agreed to make special models of the P5 for some countries on the European continent; he was the one who was prepared to fit special engines into Land Rovers for the USA to help sales there (and that was how the V8 started out); and he was the one who agreed to using the high-power Weslake-head engine in North American Land Rovers instead of the low-compression engine that every other country got.

The first of those initiatives must have got under way in 1961, as the first examples of the special-engined P5 saloons were built in 1962. There were two types, one with a 2.6-litre engine and the other with a 2.4-litre engine. Both were intended as ways of getting around the high rates of taxation that some countries imposed on big-engined cars like the standard 3-litre P5. Neither was very successful, and there were just 156 examples of these “small-engined” P5 models in four seasons of production.

The 2.6-litre P5, 1962-1965

In France, any engine larger than 2.7 litres was subject to a high rate of taxation, which made the P5 3-litre virtually unsaleable. However, there was a ready-made solution to hand in the short-stroke 2.6-litre version of the 3-litre engine that was in production for the P4 100 models.

A more powerful 123bhp “Weslake head” version of this engine was in the works for 1962, when it would be fitted to the 110, and Rover decided to use this in the new 2.6-litre P5. Special gearbox ratios may have compensated for the lower torque figure, and the gearboxes certainly had their own 725-prefix numbers. Just one RHD Rover 2.6-litre was built, and became the test and development car at Solihull. Production of the LHD models then started in April 1962 with a batch of 24, so making that year’s total production up to 25. Even though these were technically MkIA models, they anticipated the 1963 Mk IIA 3-litre specification in two respects: they were the first P5s with Weslake-head engines, and they were the first to have the new style of grille badge with its light grey enamel background. In their case, it read, “Rover 2.6-litre”. All of them had manual gearboxes (although whether with overdrive or not is unclear), and all the LHD cars were delivered to Rover’s French importers, Franco-Britannic Autos in Paris.

Sales must have been strong enough to persuade Rover that it was worth continuing production of the 2.6-litre car into the Mk II era. A further 92 examples with left-hand-drive were built for the French market over the next three seasons, but sales showed a fairly steep decline from the high of 43 in the 1963 model-year. Once again, they had special gearboxes, this time with a 780 prefix. Clearly seeking further sales outlets, Rover secured an order for the 2.6 from Nigeria, and 13 RHD cars were built to suit, while a fourteenth went to Franco-Britannic in Paris, possibly for a Nigerian diplomat stationed there.

Bizarrely, the Rover Despatch Department recorded all these Mk II 2.6-litre cars as Coupés, although they were in fact Saloons. Even Franco-Britannic got it wrong, and their sales brochure for the 2.6-litre pictured a Coupé! It can hardly have helped sales…

The 2.4-litre P5, 1962

Austria had a similar aversion to large-engined cars, and this time the barrier was set at 2.5 litres. Clearly, the 2.6-litre engine would not do, and so Rover developed a special 2.4-litre version of their seven-bearing “six” purely for this market. Engine designer Jack Swaine remembered William Martin-Hurst asking him to develop this, and the engines team came up with a new short-stroke crankshaft that gave a displacement of 2490cc.

Like the 2.6-litre engine in the French-market P5s, the 2.4-litre had the latest Weslake head to maximise power and torque. Factory figures are not available, but a registration document for one of the surviving cars quotes the power output as 111PS (roughly 109bhp) at 5000rpm. The gearbox was the same 725-prefix type as in the contemporary 2.6-litre models.

The Austrian-market Rover 2.4-litre entered production in July 1962, just a week before assembly of the last 1962-model Mk IA 2.6-litres ended, and was generally to Mk IA specification. An initial batch of 25 cars was built between then and the end of August, but there would be no more. All of them were delivered to Rover’s Austrian importers, OJ Aulehla in Vienna, but sales were slow – one of three known survivors was not registered until March 1963. Perhaps performance was poor: the P5 was, after all, a heavy car, and the torque of the short-stroke engine must have been barely enough to deliver respectable acceleration, even with the manual gearbox that was standard. By 1964, OJ Aulehla had lost the Rover franchise and Austrian sales were being handled by the Carl Jeschek company in Vienna. Perhaps that tells its own story.

Provisional plans had been made for a Mk II Rover 2.4-litre, but it seems certain that none were built. It does look as if chassis plates for them had been made up, though, because one was illustrated by mistake in the January 1963 edition of Rover’s Workshop Manual for the P4 range: the illustrator must have been given the wrong plate to copy for his picture of a 110 chassis plate, and the picture clearly shows a plate reading “Rover 2.4-litre Mk II”!

Our knowledge of these sideshows to the P5 story is pitifully small, and few Rover enthusiasts know that the cars ever existed. It is quite likely that some of those who know of survivors do not realise how rare they are, so it would be nice if this short article were to bring new information out of the woodwork, especially from readers in Europe. Please remember that any information, however trivial it may appear, could add more to the story. Although a type-written parts list for the 2.4-litre and 2.6-litre cars survives (dated February 1965), no service manuals, magazine road-tests or advertisements have ever been found – but surely there must have been some!

Just in case it helps in the identification of one of these rare cars, the chassis number prefix of all the 2.4-litre models was 788. The Mk IA 2.6-litres were 756 (RHD) and 758 (LHD), and the Mk IIA types were 781 (RHD) and 783 (LHD)."

[bunglebus]

Keller Super Chief - 4 known survivors

[bunglebus]

Optimal Energy Joule

[High Jetter]

7 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

Optimal Energy Joule

Renner based?

[warren t claim]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:39 AM, adw1977 said:

I found the Facebook post about the smaller engined Rover P5 export models.   Taken with permission from James Taylor Roverphile on Facebook:

"TAX-BREAK SPECIALS

Rover had accepted the need to make minor modifications to its cars and Land Rovers for overseas markets during the 1950s, typically providing different lighting arrangements to meet local regulations. But it would be the 1960s before they created special models for overseas.

It seems to have been William Martin-Hurst who initiated a new approach after he joined Rover in 1960, progressing from Production Director to Deputy Managing Director and then in 1962 to Managing Director. He was the one who agreed to make special models of the P5 for some countries on the European continent; he was the one who was prepared to fit special engines into Land Rovers for the USA to help sales there (and that was how the V8 started out); and he was the one who agreed to using the high-power Weslake-head engine in North American Land Rovers instead of the low-compression engine that every other country got.

The first of those initiatives must have got under way in 1961, as the first examples of the special-engined P5 saloons were built in 1962. There were two types, one with a 2.6-litre engine and the other with a 2.4-litre engine. Both were intended as ways of getting around the high rates of taxation that some countries imposed on big-engined cars like the standard 3-litre P5. Neither was very successful, and there were just 156 examples of these “small-engined” P5 models in four seasons of production.

The 2.6-litre P5, 1962-1965

In France, any engine larger than 2.7 litres was subject to a high rate of taxation, which made the P5 3-litre virtually unsaleable. However, there was a ready-made solution to hand in the short-stroke 2.6-litre version of the 3-litre engine that was in production for the P4 100 models.

A more powerful 123bhp “Weslake head” version of this engine was in the works for 1962, when it would be fitted to the 110, and Rover decided to use this in the new 2.6-litre P5. Special gearbox ratios may have compensated for the lower torque figure, and the gearboxes certainly had their own 725-prefix numbers. Just one RHD Rover 2.6-litre was built, and became the test and development car at Solihull. Production of the LHD models then started in April 1962 with a batch of 24, so making that year’s total production up to 25. Even though these were technically MkIA models, they anticipated the 1963 Mk IIA 3-litre specification in two respects: they were the first P5s with Weslake-head engines, and they were the first to have the new style of grille badge with its light grey enamel background. In their case, it read, “Rover 2.6-litre”. All of them had manual gearboxes (although whether with overdrive or not is unclear), and all the LHD cars were delivered to Rover’s French importers, Franco-Britannic Autos in Paris.

Sales must have been strong enough to persuade Rover that it was worth continuing production of the 2.6-litre car into the Mk II era. A further 92 examples with left-hand-drive were built for the French market over the next three seasons, but sales showed a fairly steep decline from the high of 43 in the 1963 model-year. Once again, they had special gearboxes, this time with a 780 prefix. Clearly seeking further sales outlets, Rover secured an order for the 2.6 from Nigeria, and 13 RHD cars were built to suit, while a fourteenth went to Franco-Britannic in Paris, possibly for a Nigerian diplomat stationed there.

Bizarrely, the Rover Despatch Department recorded all these Mk II 2.6-litre cars as Coupés, although they were in fact Saloons. Even Franco-Britannic got it wrong, and their sales brochure for the 2.6-litre pictured a Coupé! It can hardly have helped sales…

The 2.4-litre P5, 1962

Austria had a similar aversion to large-engined cars, and this time the barrier was set at 2.5 litres. Clearly, the 2.6-litre engine would not do, and so Rover developed a special 2.4-litre version of their seven-bearing “six” purely for this market. Engine designer Jack Swaine remembered William Martin-Hurst asking him to develop this, and the engines team came up with a new short-stroke crankshaft that gave a displacement of 2490cc.

Like the 2.6-litre engine in the French-market P5s, the 2.4-litre had the latest Weslake head to maximise power and torque. Factory figures are not available, but a registration document for one of the surviving cars quotes the power output as 111PS (roughly 109bhp) at 5000rpm. The gearbox was the same 725-prefix type as in the contemporary 2.6-litre models.

The Austrian-market Rover 2.4-litre entered production in July 1962, just a week before assembly of the last 1962-model Mk IA 2.6-litres ended, and was generally to Mk IA specification. An initial batch of 25 cars was built between then and the end of August, but there would be no more. All of them were delivered to Rover’s Austrian importers, OJ Aulehla in Vienna, but sales were slow – one of three known survivors was not registered until March 1963. Perhaps performance was poor: the P5 was, after all, a heavy car, and the torque of the short-stroke engine must have been barely enough to deliver respectable acceleration, even with the manual gearbox that was standard. By 1964, OJ Aulehla had lost the Rover franchise and Austrian sales were being handled by the Carl Jeschek company in Vienna. Perhaps that tells its own story.

Provisional plans had been made for a Mk II Rover 2.4-litre, but it seems certain that none were built. It does look as if chassis plates for them had been made up, though, because one was illustrated by mistake in the January 1963 edition of Rover’s Workshop Manual for the P4 range: the illustrator must have been given the wrong plate to copy for his picture of a 110 chassis plate, and the picture clearly shows a plate reading “Rover 2.4-litre Mk II”!

Our knowledge of these sideshows to the P5 story is pitifully small, and few Rover enthusiasts know that the cars ever existed. It is quite likely that some of those who know of survivors do not realise how rare they are, so it would be nice if this short article were to bring new information out of the woodwork, especially from readers in Europe. Please remember that any information, however trivial it may appear, could add more to the story. Although a type-written parts list for the 2.4-litre and 2.6-litre cars survives (dated February 1965), no service manuals, magazine road-tests or advertisements have ever been found – but surely there must have been some!

Just in case it helps in the identification of one of these rare cars, the chassis number prefix of all the 2.4-litre models was 788. The Mk IA 2.6-litres were 756 (RHD) and 758 (LHD), and the Mk IIA types were 781 (RHD) and 783 (LHD)."

I believe that even Ferrari used to sell a tax break 208 for the home market.

Doesn't Germany insist on all cars bought for government usage being under 2.5 litres? 

[ChinaTom]

There was a BMW 725 for German and Italian markets. And a Merc 260S Class I think.

[ChinaTom]

A 2.1 diesel found its way into a reasonably modern s class too

[MiniMinorMk3]

8 seconds in to this video and I spotted something I have not seen before. The car can be seen again at about 57 seconds.

So I checked the entry list for the event and it turns out it is an Anadol STC-16 (Sports Turkish Car 1600). It is powered by a cross-flow Ford 1600.