Renault 6TL "Crapaud"

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Maybe buy some gasket paper and knock up your own gaskets? Its good enough for Maserati cam boxes I find.

[mouseflakes]

I seem to recall that you have to check the projection of the liners above the surface of the block and use different thickness seals (if necessary) to ensure they are all within the same range. I might even have some old ones - no idea which size engine they are for though. I'll need to have a good dig about.

 

EDIT: Here's a discussion with a photo showing the type of seal I think is required.

 

http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/liner-seals.5236/

 

 Renault 1108cc Sierra type engine (688?)? Was used in lots of things so you'd think there might still be some parts around.

[vulgalour]

That's really useful, I was failing to find the correct phrase to bring that up in searches.  I've got blue ones just like that fitted and they're intact but being paper I'm not expecting them to be reusable once everything has been cleaned even if they do come off in one piece.

 

If I've understood the listing then this gasket set https://www.franzose.de/en/Renault/R5-R6/Motordichtsaetze/ANR81003/ on Franzose would do the trick at 76.46 Euros (£55.88 currently) delivered.  The set is worth it as it includes every gasket required and while I did buy a gasket set when I rebuilt the head it only has the stuff for the top half and leaves me short of things like sump gaskets.  I do need every gasket to do the rebuild, the ones that were fitted had all seen better days and if you can replace them it's always a good idea to do so isn't it?

 

I've found various bearing shells listed for this engine on eBay.co.uk, eBay.com and RockAuto all in the £30ish range but also all with different measurements so I'm feeling a bit bamboozled on that one.  I guess some must be oversized and some must be standard.

 

On another hunt for new piston rings, just in case, Franzose again list those but at 30 Euro per piston or 100 Euro per set.  They also list brand new pistons and liners for around 240 Euro and that's rather more than I'd like to spend if mine do turn out to be fine once cleaned.  If I do hone the liners I'll likely need over-sized piston rings so that adds further complication for me since I don't really know how you measure accurately to decide which ones to buy.

 

It's sort of easy and sort of not all this, I find it a bit daunting because I get the feeling it's going to be really easy to cock it up due to a lack of experience.

[Noel Tidybeard]

@Seth:  that yellow colour was mentioned on another forum with the same concern, it's actually a smear of oil rather than worn metal.  Everything I picked up that day (including the camera) got engine oil on it.  I'm trying to find someone I can buy all the parts from in one go so I'm not paying for three or four lots of postage and so everything arrives together.  The paper liner gaskets are proving very elusive and some of the parts I find listed for Renault 6 turn out to be for the early 850cc engine which are a different size and no good for me.

maybe look for renner 4 or 5 with the 1100cc

[purplebargeken]

Would a very light honing bring about oversized piston need? I thought it was a fairly minimal process. I may be wrong though. It has been known. 

[billyboy406v6]

Would imagine pistons will have + size stamped on them if its been rebored ?

[twosmoke300]

Don't go oversize rings/ pistons without a rebore . Check what is marked on the piston as said and put the same back in .

Main bearings come in std and under size where the crank has been ground to compensate for wear/ damage . You will need to use a micrometer and measure your crank to see if it's been reground

[vulgalour]

Just been recommended to try FW Thorntons for obscure parts.  Putting that here as a memory-jogger for future reference.  Anyone used them?

[Skizzer]

No, sorry, but I can't tell you how excited I am to learn about Franzose.de for Renault 16 parts.  Very happy.

[michael1703]

Fw thorntons have everything, you could buy big ends for a horsey horseless, your Renault might be a bit new for them

[purplebargeken]

They make reasonable chocolate goods.

[Asimo]

 

Advertised for sale in Argentina: Did this front end ever happen to European  R6s? or is it a South America only edition? A bit LNA like maybe?  needless to say, want!

 

http://www.arcar.org/renault-6-gtl-70189

[vulgalour]

 

More info, in foreign like: http://archivodeautos.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/renault-6-gtl-un-auto-utilitario.html

 

So I reckon that's specific for that market.  Not seen those wheels before, imagine how nice they'd look if the rim had enough dish to sit as far out as the hubs.  They're a little bit like Allegro Equipe alloys too.

[Timewaster]

Fw thorntons have everything, you could buy big ends for a horsey horseless, your Renault might be a bit new for them

*insert Subaru piston joke here*

[vulgalour]

Bet you thought this might be an update.  It's not.  I've done feck all with this poor little bugger since the last fettling session.

[vulgalour]

This is an update though, allbeit  a tiny one.  Ordered a new clutch kit for £35, found brand new brake discs for £26 which I'll order when a few payments have cleared.  Clutch kit has been a tricky one to find but Jollygoodcarspares on eBay came through for me yet again, gotta love those guys.

 

I'm just going to work on amassing spares as and when I can afford them now.  I've got a full new exhaust (another eBay score, but not JGCS) and have previously found things like shock absorbers for as little as £15 a pair.  The gasket set is still going to be expensive as that has to be a Der Franzose order for the full set, I've not found anyone else stocking the under-liner-gasket bit that I'll need.  I have a source for the pair of ball joints I don't have at a sensible price, I've already got one pair of ball joints, the car needs all four replacing.  Rear drum brake cylinders are cheap and plentiful, as are rear shoes should I need them (not even looked yet).  I've had prices of £30-80 to get the head tested and skimmed if needed (I don't think it'll need it in all honesty) locally and it probably makes the most sense for me to rebuild the engine myself once that's done, there's only about four moving parts in the entire engine bay anyway.

 

Radiator is proving trickier as it's unique to the late 6 and they all have the same issue but there are ways around it and again there's a local radiator specialist who doesn't charge the earth to sort these things out.  Tyres are cheap when you can find them but they're not a common size at all being 13", very narrow and very tall.

 

I don't need to sort any of this until after April 2016 when the car becomes tax exempt.  No point trying to get it road legal before then.

 

EDIT:  A payment came through just as I posted that so I've now bought the new front discs too.  PROGRESS

[320touring]

glad to see you getting some parts amassed!

 

re the suppliers- do they do citroen and do you have links?please:)

[vulgalour]

Link:  https://www.franzose.de/en/Home/ and yes, they do some Citroen things.

[wuvvum]

I treated my 6 to a new exhaust last year - I bought a silencer off eBay and the seller then messaged me saying he had the rest of the system which I could have cheap if I wanted it, so I went for it.  Piece of piss to fit.

[vulgalour]

Mine came from eBay too, username was something like Glynnexhausts or Glenspipes or something like that.  Really nice guy, got to meet him when picking it up.  That's the joy of the 6, everything is tiny and seems easy to fit and most parts, when you find them, are really cheap.

[320touring]

Link: https://www.franzose.de/en/Home/ and yes, they do some Citroen things.

superb, thanks!

[vulgalour]

Got in touch with Der Franzose last night and they confirmed which gasket set I need for the car so that's getting ordered later this week.  I'll nearly have everything to get the car drivable then.

[PhilA]

Can you get anything like this over there?

 

https://www.berrymanproducts.com/products/eco-friendly-products/berryman-chem-dip-carburetor-and-parts-cleaner/

 

As much as there is negative about it on the interwebs, I've used that stuff to good effect. Drop part in, put lid on, walk away for a few days, come back, scrub with an old toothbrush, put back in again, come back, scrub, rinse, dunk in oil, store in oily rag.

 

Works better than leaving pistons sitting in diesel. Got pictures of the results on my rebuild page. Go on, get cracking.

 

 

--Phil

[vulgalour]

I don't know if we get that over here, I can't recall ever seeing any.  Der Franzose have been superb after it turns out an international bank transfer is just about impossible and I sent them payment for the gasket set today.  Everything everyone has said about this company being superb is thus far true.

[panhard65]

Der Franzose are good but expensive. I always used Leboncoin to find parts cheaper. Oversize pistons and rings are not available. If the liners need anything more than a light hone I would go for a piston and liner set. To be honest if it was me doing it I wouldn't even bother cleaning the liners just bung new ones in. The kits usually come with a varied selection of liner seals, they are colour coded if I remember correctly. The seals on my Fregate were copper though so maybe the replacement liners will have a different type seal. They are dead easy to work on but cylinder heads are a weak point. They warp easily and the valves and seats wear really badly, so worth stripping and checking before putting it back together.

[Eddie Honda]

after it turns out an international bank transfer is just about impossible

British banks want a swift kick in the pods over their general wankiness and rip-off over non-UK transfers and transfer fees. They're all cunts. Just some less cuntish than others.

 

Fortunately, I don't have to deal with them much these days and if any regular 'shiter of good standing needs a small Eurozone payment done drop me a PM.

[vulgalour]

panhard:  I don't think I need to go the oversize route.  The liners are in pretty good shape, just need a clean up looking at them as does most of the engine.  I had a metal rule across the head and it doesn't appear warped so I doubt it's going to be that bad and while a couple of valves look marginally less perfect than the rest, again I'm not too concerned about them.  I'm getting the head checked regardless and I'll go through it all a little bit at a time until it's done.

[Parky]

It's an old school OHV, it will be fairly tolerant of less than perfect tolerances so I reckon you'll be alright. These engines are usually pretty tough, look how many Renault 4's trundled around the French colonies quite happily and I doubt they were serviced every 5000 miles.

[vulgalour]

Oooo, an actual update!  First up, good news on the head, it's not warped at all so that can go on the block happily.  I've been told various other components are tired but usable, since the car is likely to only do light duties for a long time they shouldn't cause me any issues so we're going to reuse what's there and replace them if need be in the future.  Couple of things holding me back from putting the engine together, the first being the honing tool being out on loan so the liners aren't ready to go in yet.  The liners appear to be in good shape, they just need the carbon and muck cleaning off so things are happy on reassembly.  The second issue is my back is still giving me grief and the third is that I really wanted to make the mechanical bits and pieces look nice as I work through and sort them out.

 

For a refresher, this is how the engine did look.

 

 

The rocker cover got a fresh coat of black paint.  It was pretty tatty all over but still nice and solid.  The filler cap is in great shape so that just needed a clean.

 

I wanted to paint the block green and then decided against it because we had some red paint and I like red and hey, it's free so why not.  After taking a wire wheel to the loose stuff I applied three coats as per the instruction on the tin and got a reasonable finish.  I'll go back over important mating surfaces with some thinners to make sure everything is clean before reassembly.

 

Plonked the rocker cover onto the head when it was dry enough to handle to keep things tidy.  I'll get the new seal fitted before bolting this all back together properly.

 

Not the most exciting update, I know.  At least I'm progressing a bit now.

[Parky]

Tidy. That will look smart in a nice clean engine bay