Renault 6TL "Crapaud"

[mat_the_cat]

It's only the roof-side of the gutter that's shot, the body-side is still really good and appears to be a slightly thicker steel.  I was thinking the best way to do it is just cut out the really bad bits and let sections in, like a super-sized version of... er... I've forgotten their username now.  Whomever it is that did all the work on the Stellar.

 

That would be MEEEEE!

Really enjoying this, both for the car and the level of detail which goes into the write-up. Oh, and I'd go for the green if it was me.

[mouseflakes]

If that engine's fecked, you could try to track down a 1289cc lump out of a 5TS.  Should be proper nippy in a 6. 

 

That's what I did with mine - and it was. I should have used the 5 box though as my 6 ended up a little under-geared. You can even fit the early 5-speeder from a 5 (the one with the flat top and the fifth gear stuck on the front). Requires a bit of top-plate jiggery-pokery and some cut and shut on the front cross member. And probably some other stuff too.

[vulgalour]

I have lots of arsed for bodywork and fettling but surprisingly little for engine and gearbox conversions.  I do not know why this is.  I'll likely stick with the 1108 and a 4 speed box, it'll do me.

[Mr Lobster]

If you do stick with the standard 1108, then if you can get hold of the bigger carb from a 5 GTL it gives a useful bit of extra power.

[vulgalour]

I appreciate all the advice on getting extra power but how much extra power will I really need to get myself to the post office once a week?  The 1108 engine and 4 speed gearbox can't be underpowered in the 6, it weighs so little a strong elastic band would probably allow it to keep up with modern traffic.

[derskine]

Have to agree with Vulg, power isn't really essential when you just want to trundle around in it.

[Mr Lobster]

True, but the bigger carb does give it a touch more motorway / dual carriageway / accelerating ability although for trundling around the standard set up is fine.

[vulgalour]

Yesterday I took the end plate off the engine in the hope that I'd be able to get to a big nut on the crankshaft and get some movement in it.  No such luck, but a rather worrying appearance of what look like dried out emulsified oil.  Camshaft is nice and free so no worries there.

 

Then I tried, and utterly failed, to lift the engine to drain out the oil from the sump plug.  A strap slipped and it all just canted over and poured various liquids all over the floor.  Didn't even have enough cat litter to mop it all up properly, sacked it off as a bad job and went home.

 

Today, I went back in to the unit with Mike, a second pair of hands was very welcome at times and meant I got to drain the oil out successfully.  Except what came out had the appearance and consistency of weak gravy.  Didn't smell as appealing.  Evidence of emulsified oil and a vague smell of petrol which was a little odd.

 

 

After reading the Haynes booklet of lies and deceit I decided to just apply logic to removing the gearbox from the engine.  Seriously, the instructions in this manual are appalling, every time I try and get help it has such useful information as "just remove the gearbox." and when looking for how there are no pictures, there are no instructions just another vague statement... infuriating.  Anyway, living in the bell housing was a really big spider.

 

Clutch lever freed off nicely after a little effort and the internals look in reasonably good order.  There is corrosion on the thrust bearing and I've not yet taken the clutch off to inspect it.  The splines on the shaft here are really good so I'm pleased about that.  There were quite a few cobwebs in here too, most of which just sorted of floated away when the engine and gearbox were parted from one another.

 

"The gearbox can be easily lifted by one person, even if bending quite low." So I tried to pick it up, thinking it would weigh nothing and managed to nearly headbutt the gear lever.  THANKS HAYNES.  It requires some effort to pick up, it weighs a small amount, it is not floaty light.

 

Got busy with the degreaser on the engine, was assaulted with the aroma of more animal dung as I was cleaning the outside of the sump.  Lovely.  Very little paint left on the block but no evidence of serious oil leaks just lots of storage detritus.

 

 

Set that aside for the day and took a couple of pictures to illustrate a couple of worn out bushes on the front shock absorbers.  I'm guessing these will be easy enough to source.  They're pretty worn out, especially on the driver's side.  Brake pads definitely need replacing too, not a lot of material left on them.  Calipers look like they should clean up fine once removed from the car.

 

 

Mike also showed me how to safely test the starter motor which, after an initial reluctance to do much, appears to work perfectly fine engaging and disengaging as it ought.  Whether it's good enough to work on the engine not just on the bench remains to be seen.  Not sure how to test the alternator.

[MikeKnight]

Not sure how to test the alternator.

 

Multimeter set to read amps, a bench vice, a drill and balls of steel.

 

A slight slip and you'll discover what several amps up your arm feels like.

 

Alternators are usually (not always) in an accessible location on the engine so it's generally safer to test it in situ with a simple volt reader on the battery while the engine is running.

[jonathan_dyane]

I'm looking forward to seeing the sump off. My guess is it's spun a shell but for your sake I hope it hasn't...

[D Spares & Tyres]

I have lots of arsed for bodywork and fettling but surprisingly little for engine and gearbox conversions.  I do not know why this is.  I'll likely stick with the 1108 and a 4 speed box, it'll do me.

I hate spannering with a passion but I`ll happily rub away at some filler for hours.................

[vulgalour]

Post-dentist malaise today, not sure if it's down to a bad reaction to the anaesthetic or just a bit of ick that I've contracted, leaving me feeling pretty run down and tired at any rate.  So I'm sat here watching old episodes of Fast 'N Loud and it's given me some thoughts for the Renault.  Namely, I'm going to get the body rubbed down and given a fresh coat of lacquer below the gutter line.  Above the gutter line there's going to be a lot of visible repair, so I reckon a contrast paint would be super for the entire roof and around the windscreen, either a flat colour or something ridiculous.

 

 

The car is solid enough to pull this sort of thing off and if I get the body lacquered I do keep the majority of the wear and tear I like without it getting worse.  Lot of elbow grease to do it, but shouldn't be too expensive.  Should be interesting to see it applied to a tiny French car rather than a massive 60s station wagon too, I think the 6 has the right sort of styling to pull it off sucessfully.

[vulgalour]

 

'course, if I'm going the whole hog it's pale metallic green paint, apple white roof, smoothed engine bay, white vinyl interior with white fur headlining, plenty of chrome.... but the above keeps things more realistic.  I reckon I'd be happy enough to lower it, fit spats and paint the roof apple white and that blue door green.  More likely it'll just stay as it is but it's fun to play around with ideas.

[vulgalour]

So Mike says to me, he says, why don't you make the Renault into a little van?

 

 

He has a point.

 

EDIT: I just realised what it reminds me of, the Simca 1100 van.

 

[vulgalour]

Went to the unit today briefly to have a look at the Renault and see more realistically what's likely to be involved in this van conversion I want to undertake. It did highlight another option for it which is to just panel over the rear side windows and door handles but leave the doors fully functional thus giving the appearance of a van with the a little more functionality of side loading ability. It would also mean the rear seat could be used for passengers if they really had to travel with me, thought experience tells me that it's not the nicest way to travel.

 

Either way, I did decide a smooth side panel is better than a recessed one on account of the rear door design. You can see the window reveal is stepped, it might be enough for laying the fresh steel on top of and welding to, making life far easier than butt welding and minimising the need for filling. I have two spare doors so I can use segments from those to patch in the big door handle recesses so that I don't have to try and make the piece needed to match.

 

To weld the door up there's a couple of areas that need more than just tacks putting in. The top of the door has quite a large gap between it and the gutter and this would need to have a thin strip let in to bridge the gap, as shown here in blue.

 

For the leading edge it's a little more complicated. I'm considering removing the hinges completely and letting in a filler panel though I don't know whether it should be perpendicular to the door or curved, the former is definitely the easier option. If I leave the rear hinges attached it makes lining the door up easier but you will get two squares sticking out which will likely detract from a tidy finish on this section. Again, the blue points out roughly what I'd need to fill with fresh metal.

 

 

There are other considerations too. The rear arches both sides aren't brilliant looking, I suspect I'll have to clean these up and possibly let in some patches before welding the doors shut. You can also see that the rear wing has flash rusted through the paint. Since I've got some paint on its way to me I'll get this sorted when that arrives.

 

The inside of the doors is easy to resolve if I leave them functional, I'd remove the window winder mechanism and the door card and replace it with plain vinyl covered ply or hardboard. If I weld the doors shut the same would apply but I'd also remove the latch and the rubber seal which is just glued to the door, a strange solution compared to other cars I've worked on but one that looks like it was Renault's way of doing things. I would also need to cut a small section out of the bottom of the door to allow access to the bolt that attaches the body to the chassis should it ever need to come off in the future.

 

The recess for the window on the inside of the door is quite deep, plenty of depth to apply sound deadening material and trim fixings for a vinyl covered panel.

 

Inside I'll likely remove the parcel shelf brackets but keep the trims as they are. I'm not sure what to do about the small section of headlining that goes into the rear quarter window surround, it depends what happens to the fabric tension when that section is unglued. I do plan to leave the full length headlining in, I see no point destroying or cutting it down to suit the van at this stage.

 

If it were a better vehicle to start with I'd restore it nut and bolt. It's a rare car but it's not valuable without me sinking a lot of money into it that I don't realistically have. As a van, I can get it back to being a useful, solid little vehicle for much less money and not much more effort. For what I need in my collection, it will be a more sensible use of this little car.

 

My final consideration on van options is to weld up only the driver's side rear door, panel all the windows and keep the passenger side door as a functional side loading portal. We shall see.

[purplebargeken]

My 2p worth would be thus.

 

Van would be useful but then it might be better to buy a van.

 

Welding up the doors would still leave you with a sill, door bottom, etc, all of which could potentially rust out and be a pig to get to re: repair. Keeping a functioning door there would then make sense. Passenger access and exit, no door = less easy access or exit in the case of OMG bump.

 

If you want to carry things, just take the rear seats out. Much quicker and easier than welding things up and plating over things. Plus you keep it original when you come to move it on. Doing such a conversion would lob off a good bit of value to the car IMHO. Would you have to re-register it and declare for insurance purposes?

 

You have the French Onion Bus for more practical applications and for that it is perfect mon ami.

 

Jusy my 2p worth as I said. Am always happy to be ignored

[Ghosty]

^Agree, why bother? Save time, effort, spare parts, it's more practical for all sorts... besides if you have windows, you can open them and put oversize things through - potentially handy. Do as little as you can to it to preserve the look of the car, and it'll make a great, characterful runabout.

[Timewaster]

I think the van idea is cool but pointless.

 

I'm sure that helps no end.

[Noel Tidybeard]

r6 van= DONT BOTHER

[dollywobbler]

A friend converted his Ami 6 into a van by panelling over the rear door window and rear window. 

 

Worked really well, looked ace and when he sold it, the next owner was easily able to revert it to a glazed estate. Vans are all about blind spots though, so I'd rather have windows.

[Skizzer]

Your car, your choice, but

 

 the next owner was easily able to revert it 

 

This.

[vulgalour]

I do like how that Ami looks, that would be a LOT less work and very easy to acheive.

 

Are people on Autoshite really using the "but that's pointless" argument to dissuade me from this?  You know that's both daft and won't work, right?

[Timewaster]

I didn't say you shouldn't do it. I just said it was pointless.

[Noel Tidybeard]

but its french and french vans have windows

[Vin]

but its french and french vans have windows

 

Also, very much like Italian vans. But, as well as windows, they have rear doors...

 

[D Spares & Tyres]

poor Renault

 

Just doesn`t seem right somehow

[vulgalour]

I've changed my mind.  I'm going to leave it in the corner of the yard and do fuck all with it for the next 15 years.  If anyone asks to buy it I'm going to demand £1000 or I'm scrapping it.  That'll show 'em.

[Parky]

I think you should do this, as after all it will look like a Simca and as its your Car you can do what you like with it.

 

I would leave the rear doors as they are though - a van is much more practical if it has side loading doors on both sides! It's also much less welding, grinding, and filling for you to do but if you have the skills and the time, then why not do what you want.

 

If you are going for the commercial look, the wheels should be light grey IMHO. With the green that would be a fairly authentic seventies colour scheme and suit the shape nicely.

[Angrydicky]

If you want it to be a van, just fit plastic panels over the rear windows or paint them body colour. It's too rare a car for you to go welding the doors up (IMO).

 

I think this car is all about the patina, and it's actually very well preserved. I think you should concentrate on repairing those rear door shuts properly, and rustproofing the hell out of it once the necessary welding work is complete.

[purplebargeken]

A grand for a mere 15 years. How utterly ridiculous! It has to be 16 years for a grand, sheesh. This place, etc