project 1980 Austin Princess

[plasticvandan]

91 pages and i would have bridged it at page 5.Have to commend Vulgs commitment but it doesnt seem to be rewarded at any point by this car.I was so pleased when the 1100 appeared as every update saw results and reward for any effort put into it,the Princess gives him a shafting and doesnt even offer a reacharound.

[vulgalour]

Page 5 was a good page though!  I got things fixed and was using it.  Also the first time the exhaust came off and things were going well as I chipped away at the tip of the iceberg, blissfully unaware that there was trouble ahead.  Good old Page 5, halcyon days.

 

You're right, of course, this is a ridiculous car to persist with.  I should have bought an example that hadn't been beaten every day of its life.  Let me be a lesson to everyone else!  There was a time in 2013 when the car was running well, when I'd do things like drive from Derbyshire to Middlesbrough without thinking twice about it because it was just that trustworthy.  Then it came off the road for "a little bit of welding" and things just spiralled and now I feel like I'm having to start again.

 

There's something about it though, something special that means even when it's being the most recalcitrant old turd I forgive it and carry on fixing things.  When it does work it's always my car of choice to use, I really enjoy driving it in a way I haven't any other car I've owned.  If I knew what it was about this particular car that I enjoyed so much I'd remove it and put it on something better, but since I can't do that I guess we're stuck with each other.

[SiC]

What's caused it to be such a PIA? Just worn out? Lack of continued maintenance over long periods by previous owners?

[320touring]

Magnolia is the root cause of the issue. Were the car purple from the factory, Vulg would have had a much easier time of it;)

 

I know it's fighting you Vulg, but it just needs some bloody mindedness and maybe a day or two away from it.

 

When it comes right you'll have one of the coolest cars on this here site..

[vulgalour]

What's caused it to be such a PIA? Just worn out? Lack of continued maintenance over long periods by previous owners?

 

Precisely this.  Odometer says 75k, I reckon with the stuff I've put right and the general condition of everything it's more likely this is 175k in all honesty.  If it is a genuine 75k then it's had some really horrendous owners for the last  few decades!

 

320 could be right.  If BL had seen  fit to paint the car a proper colour to begin with then all of these problems wouldn't exist.  It would also then be out of my price range and I wouldn't get to have bought it so... swings and roundabouts.

[Eddie Honda]

Is this the worst car on AS in regards to the ratio of time/money/effort spent vs actually having a functional car?

 

It must be close, surely?

I think SiC's MG is a strong candidate.

[Rod/b]

If this was mine, it’d be washing machines by now, so fair play on your perserverance.

[SiC]

I think SiC's MG is a strong candidate.

Oi!!

 

 

You've had it really bad with this Vulg. I really hope my MGB doesn't do this to me.

 

Reckon you're over the hill with this? Not sure why I'm asking this mind, as I've learnt, you always hope you are but then something else unexpected crops up.

[vulgalour]

I hope so.  When something has broken, with the exception of the exhaust, once we've fixed it that item then tends to stay fixed.  By that logic, the only things left to fail were the front brakes and the clutch hydraulics.  At least parts for the front brakes are easy to get when those fail, which I'm sure they're just waiting patiently in line to do.

[Parky]

You know what? I think you should make this ungrateful pos suffer, show it who's boss.

 

Park it outside the unit facing inwards so it can see you giving the purple 1100 some loving. It'll come crawling back (literally). Leyland Princesses. Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen.

 

Never sure why BL didn't use that strap line but it might look good on a t-shirt?

[vulgalour]

Managed to not have something to break today.  I've been looking, without success, for a design of mirrors that was both period and a very particular design.  In the meantime I've been using the black wing mirrors because nothing else has been as good or made me as happy.  Those black wing mirrors have been a love-hate thing so I know some of you will be glad to see them gone and some will be disappointed.  I found the new mirrors while I wasn't even looking for any, fairly cheaply, and in the right sort of condition for the rest of the car.  They arrived today so I wombled over to the unit  to see if they fit the way I hoped they would.

 

Mike was there, which proved useful when taking off the black mirrors and dismantling the replacement mirrors so a couple of grub screws could be replaced with small bolts.  The new mirrors are a clamp fitting and are clamped to the door frame, but the grub screws were inaccessible because of the way the door frame is constructed.  A bolt allows you to use a spanner to tighten up the clamp brackets.  The new mirrors are also quite subtle.

20180131-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I quite like these new mirrors, they're not too blingy and don't look too out of place.  They're also a lot bigger than the original Tex mirrors the car came with and slightly larger than the black wing mirrors so they offer reasonable visibility.

20180131-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180131-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Having the mirrors on the door frames instead of the gutters does have the benefit of hiding the clamps and fixings from view.  They're produced by Stadium.

[SiC]

The new mirrors are also quite subtle.

So subtle that I didn't even see them. Took a couple of looks to find them. What are you going to do with holes in the wing?

[vulgalour]

Weld 'em up.  I've got my eye on a pair of second hand wings that need repair but are straighter than my current set.  Just waiting on end-of-month invoices to clear so I know whether or not I can afford them.

[vulgalour]

Let's have another crack at these clutch hydraulics.  First thing we did was take the slave cylinder off again to inspect it.  Immediately noticeable was that the piston was stuck, so that wouldn't be helping matters, and there was some obvious gunge around the the piston.  No corrosion to speak of, it just look really dirty.  The seal was still nice and pliable and the spring was still in good shape too.

20180202-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Using the tiniest soft wire brush in the dremel-a-like, the bore was cleaned of all the crud.  Don't worry, we didn't leave those stray wires in there.  Everything was then washed through with thinners to clean out any swarf and debris and then brake fluid.  Piston etc. was lubricated with brake fluid and popped back into place too and full movement of the piston was restored.  Bench tested and it looked to be doing exactly what it should.

20180202-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Put it back on the car, bled the system through until no air came out and the pedal stopped feeling floppy and tried again.  Some grindy noises and no gear selection.  We then rebled the system using the MG B method of furiously pumping the pedal and holding it as you bleed, this evicted some air and the gear selection was marginally improved.  Because we couldn't improve it further we employed the low-pressure vacuum bleeder which highlighted there was absolutely no air in the system at all and didn't improve the pedal feel.

 

If you depress the clutch pedal as normal, it won't select gears, it comes close but can't quite manage it.  If you instead furiously pump the clutch pedal, you can get gears.  Since the slave cylinder appears to be clean and in good order, the next thought would be an internally collapsed clutch hose (new one ordered as of tonight) or potentially master cylinder failure.  It's like the system has a restriction on fluid flow somewhere, which would point at the clutch hose being at fault, I expect.  Now I just play the potentially expensive game of replacing clutch hydraulic components until we find out which one has actually failed, with luck it will be the £7 pipe I've ordered.

 

If I'm unlucky, I'll need a new slave and master cylinder, those aren't cheap and are difficult to find.  The only master I've found is listed with Past Parts as a Dodge 50 item on a repair-and-return basis and is about £120.  The only slave cylinder I've found is listed for an Austin Westminster and is £160.  The slave seems difficult to find but the master looks like it was also used in the Allegro, I've yet to find any suitable rebuild kits or parts listed accordingly, nor any for the Ambassador.  If it were a 2200, parts would be much easier to acquire, they're more plentiful for some reason.

 

This is the master, the bolts to the bulkhead are in line with the reservoir so I can't use the similar looking MG item which has an offset flange.

20180202-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The slave is a particular design, it's larger than the ADO16/Mini one and different to just about every other BMC/BL offering.

20180202-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The hose seems Princess specific, though it may also be the same as the 4ltr Princess R.

20180202-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

[RayMK]

Something else to check, if you have not done so already, is that the clutch pedal should have a prescribed amount of play/clearance before it actuates the piston in the slave cylinder.  Without clearance, the piston cannot retreat to uncover the reservoir port and may thus run out of stroke.  If nothing else, it is easy to check and eliminate from your investigations.

 

You are doing well to keep your cool with the Princess. I am enjoying the thread but can sense your frustration. 

[PhilA]

Being as you can get to it, does Manuel say how far the slave is supposed to move the release mechanism upon full travel of the pedal?

 

Phil

[dave21478]

Daves repeatedly proven, tried and tested method for dealing with arsey hydraulics is to wedge the pedal hard down overnight and see if that helps any.

It costs you literally nothing and a surprisingly large number of times it has a very positive effect.

 

Given that you are handy with the welder etc, what about modifying a different master cylinder to fit? Boiled down to basics its just a big syringe that squirts fluid out when you press the plunger....all you really need is the correct volume of fluid per stroke and a way to link it to the pedal to give the correct length of travel.

[vulgalour]

I'm inclined to think this is most likely a collapsed/pinched hose in all honesty, rather than an adjustment or airlock issue.  We've bled enough fluid through with the pressure bleeder in one go to more than fill the system so any air in there should have come out when we did that.  It's not sucking air in or leaking fluid out, it's just not creating enough pressure on a single pedal stroke which does seem to point more at a hose or seal problem, I'd expect.  The sticking slave cylinder piston can't have been helping either and sorting that has improved pedal feedback.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Lordy, you're a patient fella. You must REALLY like this car, to not want to attack the damn thing with a lump hammer for all the shit it's thrown at you.

After owning over 50 cars, I've only ever sent one for scrap. I like cars too much to be the person who sends them to their imminent death. However, this princess has taken her title a little too literally, I fear. What a bloody diva! I'd be making threats, personally...

[vulgalour]

I know who wears the trousers in this relationship and it's not me.

[dave21478]

I put literally 8 litres of fluid through my Freelander using gravity, pressure kits, vacuum kits and I would have used my cock to piss it through if I could have done, all to no avail, but a night with a bit of stick holding the pedal down sorted it.

[vulgalour]

If it proves troublesome when I fit the new hose I'll give it a try.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Also try unbolting the slave from the engine and holding it at different angles whilst gently pressure bleeding it.

 

For example; it can be near enough impossible to bleed a BMW clutch with the slave bolted to the box - if you unbolt it and let it dangle down on it's hose (get a mate to hold the piston in!) it suddenly bleeds through. They're a Grade A cow. 

 

Lennon was alive when that master cylinder was fitted. Just saying.

[twosmoke300]

I put literally 8 litres of fluid through my Freelander using gravity, pressure kits, vacuum kits and I would have used my cock to piss it through if I could have done, all to no avail, but a night with a bit of stick holding the pedal down sorted it.

Don’t the freelander clutch bits all come pre filled with no loss connectors ? Last one I did a clutch on did . Literally just clipped the pipes together and no bleeding reqd . The only positive in the whole job tho

[SiC]

I bled my MGB slave with it dangling. I also pushed the slave in and used a zip tie to keep it in. Idea being that there is less reservoir down there that has to have air removed from. I then used a Eezibleed thing to push the fluid through.

 

Apparently awkward and difficult on the MGB. However I never had any problems and it worked first time. Which, from me, is quite telling. Usually it takes a good many times and a lot of swearing before I get anything hydraulic fixed.

[plasticvandan]

I have had an internally collapsed brake hose on a Reliant Kitten,basic symptoms were that the brake wouldn't release after pressing the pedal.I see no reason why it wouldn't cause the same issue for you.Adjustment on where the pedal clevis goes into the master is also a very good point,presumably now you have a new clutch the hydraulics haven't got as far to push before it actuates the clutch?check your free play etc.again had a problem with brakes locking on because I had over adjusted a master cyl clevis so that there wasn't space for fluid to return.

[Mally]

Its many years since I did one, but I don't think there is any adjustment at slave or pedal.

If the hose was collapsed I imagine it would be difficult to bleed.

I remember someone* putting a shim behind the clutch release bearing once, but not on one of these as that means engine out again.

How far do you have to press the pedal before the slave cylinder moves?

Once it's started moving does it move constantly until the pedal hits the floor?

Long shot this but has it got 3 carpets under the pedal!

[Asimo]

It isn't pressure as such that operates the clutch but a certain volume of fluid has to enter the slave cylinder to move that clutch pushrod far enough to disengage the clutch. Is there any slop in the linkage at the slave end? There should be a specification somewhere for the amount of free play there, ie the amount of wiggle on the clutch operating arm.

[captain_70s]

It has been suggested amongst Dolly owners you could attach something to the end of the pushrod in order to give it more length due to the fact that bleeding the system can be such a farce on the Triumph saloons. On my car the biting point is on the floor, to the extent I can't have the driver's side carpet fitted, no amount of bleeding will get it to raise any higher despite several attempts over the years!

[alf892]

Isn't there a means of adjusting the stroke of the actuating arm like on transverse A series......so that the travel operates the clutch rather than just taking up the slack?