Shite in Miniature II

[Tenmil Socket]

Ah yes, I can see that now...

[bunglebus]

6 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

I'm not too clued-up on the Hong Kong/Dinky connection, but as far as I can tell the story runs like this:

Dinky then went for broke (literally). In late 1979 they signed a contract with neighbouring Universal Toys to supply a load of somewhat cheap-looking Matchbox-sized diecasts with plastic bases, but with their own Dinky logo moulded into the base instead of the usual Kidco or Viscount brands. The idea was that volume sales of these inexpensive toys could offset the company's mounting losses.

 

So if I've understood this correctly, The Dinky van and others are rebranded versions of existing castings rather than the no-name ones being copies of the Dinky? Interesting. I still wonder where the van originates from, it seems that China/Hong Kong manufacturers have no qualms whatsoever in blatantly copying stuff, and also it seems making the same vehicle under different brand names.

I also used to turn my nose up at the far east stuff, preferring Matchbox, Majorette or the occasional Hot Wheels when I could find them. Now I'm getting a getting a growing appreciation for them, crap as a lot of them are. I don't think I have any other Dinkys from that range, seems to have been a strange time of bankruptcy, buyouts, rebrands and copies. Even Corgi stopped putting their name under their cars.

Oh and taking of copies, that pull-back Renault 5 turbo from earlier;

 

20200504_182503 by RS, on Flickr

 

seems to be a copy of this Corgi;

 

[Split_Pin]

I have had the smaller version of that since early childhood. The wheels were of the bigger size applied to the smaller Corgis and it didn't take much for the car to be rendered immobile if the axles became even slightly bent, meaning the wheels ground against the arches. I'll dig it out later!

[barrett]

8 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

This wasn't Dinky's first brush with overseas manufacturing - back in the mid-60s, Hong Kong Industrial (HKI) were a major toy maker and had produced a short-lived Dinky range under licence - comprising some six US cars which had originally been developed for the Spot-On range, and orphaned when Lines Bros merged with Meccano.

This is the bit I find most interesting, as Spot-On has always had a fairly legendary status for me (as previously explained somewhere in this thread ages ago). So, were these actually produced? Do you know what they were?

[sierraman]

The late 70’s Dinky Range fascinates me, not to the point of collecting it but because of its sheer undesirability. Those cheap Cargo trucks they did and the Rover 3500, the range just seemed bizarrely orientated. Rumour has it they were about to produce a Mk2 Granada just before they went bust. 

[Datsuncog]

3 hours ago, bunglebus said:

So if I've understood this correctly, The Dinky van and others are rebranded versions of existing castings rather than the no-name ones being copies of the Dinky? Interesting. I still wonder where the van originates from, it seems that China/Hong Kong manufacturers have no qualms whatsoever in blatantly copying stuff, and also it seems making the same vehicle under different brand names.

I also used to turn my nose up at the far east stuff, preferring Matchbox, Majorette or the occasional Hot Wheels when I could find them. Now I'm getting a getting a growing appreciation for them, crap as a lot of them are. I don't think I have any other Dinkys from that range, seems to have been a strange time of bankruptcy, buyouts, rebrands and copies. Even Corgi stopped putting their name under their cars.

Oh and taking of copies, that pull-back Renault 5 turbo from earlier;

20200504_182503 by RS, on Flickr

seems to be a copy of this Corgi;

Yup, I think that's about the size of it - they're not unique castings by/for Dinky, just a desperate rebrand of an existing range of diecasts made under contract for a variety of US toy distributors.

There's remarkably little information on Hong Kong manufacturers kicking around - but with some 1,100 different toy factories all operating in this small territory in 1970, with all the attendant takeovers, bankruptcies and tooling sell-offs, it's maybe not surprising that there was a high degree of crossover between toy car makers, whether intentionally or not... and so it's hard to work out where a given casting, like the Econoline, might have originated.

Like with more recent Chinese toys, it seems some HK toymakers took direct copies of other manufacturers' toys (like Split_Pin's no-name sports car pack, containing pirated Matchbox and Corgi castings), others drew heavily on other models but developed their own lookalike castings (a bit like Playart), while some developed their very own crude but original models (like Summer).

I admit that I too had little to no interest in these far-eastern oddities either, but the mystery element is increasingly attractive...

Well done on the 'inspired by Corgi' R5 Turbo - and yeah, I guess in a way these low-rent copies are true shite in miniature, given their dubious origins and propensity to be ignored by the majority of collectors.

As an aside, I gather from my recent Corgi Juniors book that the cheap no-name Corgis from the late 80s came about whenever tooling sold to Kiko in Brazil after Mettoy's collapse was bought back again and the old stuff put back into production... with the Kiko name erased.

[Datsuncog]

23 minutes ago, barrett said:

This is the bit I find most interesting, as Spot-On has always had a fairly legendary status for me (as previously explained somewhere in this thread ages ago). So, were these actually produced? Do you know what they were?

Yup, the range of HK Dinkys (originally intended as Spot-Ons, as part of an abandoned foray by Lines Bros into the US market) were as follows:

57-001 Buick Riviera
57-002 Chevrolet Corvair Monza
57-003 Chevrolet Impala
57-004 Oldsmobile 88
57-005 Ford Thunderbird
57-006 Rambler Classic

https://industrialhistoryhk.org/dinky-toys-hong-kong/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinky_Toys#Hong_Kong

The Olds 88 was odd as it didn't appear in the promotional literature - the 004 model was shown as a Dodge Polara convertible. That particular model seems to have never made it into production, but the others did and were sold in the US only, boxed as Dinky Toys.

Never seen any myself! But they do exist...

[flat4alfa]

4 hours ago, eddyramrod said:

Ford Fairlane?  I think you'll find that's a 1959 Chevrolet Brookwood, based on that year's Bel Air.

TEN POINTS to Eddy!   It was a poor curve-ball trick, granted.

[Jon]

OK, here's my shite degrees of separation reply, from the last page or so:

 

10 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

A nice [Matchbox] 1964 Ford Fairlane Wagon also showed for the weekend.  Why they brought the canoe I don't know - did they think the previous months' floods were still on?

 

 

Looks like your Fairlane has turned up in rural Canada, now!

 

 

This is also I assume one of the aforementioned versions of the flareside pickup with camper body attached that was sold as a Dinky. This one has no Dinky signature on the base (or indeed, any maker's mark) but eerie that I took these photos over a year ago!

 

On the subject of Solido Dinkys, take a gander at this:

 

Cougar?

 

Nah, Dinky! Presumably the 07  80 is a manufacturing date?

 

Should anyone feel a desperate desire to own it, the buy now plus postage is just shy of a tenner to get it to mine, or around £18-19 all in, posted to me and then sent to the UK!

https://www.trademe.co.nz/toys-models/die-casts/dinky/listing-2608197500.htm?rsqid=8eedc39083e14795bce6fc69e006c2d0-003

 

[flat4alfa]

[More Post Lady April catch-up]

As a child I had little time for these Matchbox fantasy trucks.  Friends had them, but I never did.  Fantasy designs bugged me as a child, I think I saw them as somehow 'fake' and 'wrong' as I had no reference in my Observer's books and therefore weren't something ever seen on a real life road.  At least that's my recollection.

But today....  I'm interested !   Picked up from separate eBay sellers for a pound or so, for their condition mainly.  Imagine a real-life one...

Pondering now to either leave them well alone, or detail them a tad.  It's not like they are valuable... 

Would be interesting to see the original design sketches and perhaps know the name of the designer.  After all, that's quite a strong part of today's marketing of Hot Wheels.  For all I know, it was Harris Mann, moonlighting.

[Jon]

15 minutes ago, flat4alfa said:

  Imagine a real-life one...

 

 

Pondering now to either leave them well alone, or detail them a tad.  It's not like they are valuable... 

Would be interesting to see the original design sketches and perhaps know the name of the designer.  After all, that's quite a strong part of today's marketing of Hot Wheels.  For all I know, it was Harris Mann, moonlighting.

 

I reckon the Quest 80 is about as close as you'd get to a real one:

I can't seem to work out how to credit the photographer but their flickr user name is beerdave1745.

 

Anyway, I reckon keep them as is, as I'm a sentimental old fool when it comes to something that's lasted so long in such good nick. Also gives you a reason to search out a rough version to modify, for a compare and contrast.

 

[Datsuncog]

4 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Brilliant write up again @Datsuncog. The Toy Cars book which is largely pictorial (and from my own experience at Swapmeets throughout the 1990s, somewhat inaccurate in its statements about which models are harder and easier to find) confirms we need a book written from the slant that you provide.

Does anybody remember the 1/43 'Dinky' branded range from around the same time that appeared to be either Norev or Polistil models? I know I still have the packaging for a BMW 5 series in the loft although I can't recall what it looks like as its that long since I've seen it. The model is long gone.

Hey, glad you liked!

Yeah, the Gardiner & O'Neill book is a bit patchy in places and sometimes unintentionally amusing (such as the assertion that "vehicles in the Lesney Matchbox 'Models of Yesteryear' range are far more popular with collectors than those of the 1-75 series" - which in fairness was probably quite true on first publication in 1985), although surprisingly it does give a passing mention to the HK Dinky range of 1980.

It probably reflects the interests of the authors I suppose, but it kinda annoyed me that the cover and first few pages contained group pictures including Matchbox Superfasts, but they were nowhere to be found within...

I haven't even touched on those 1/43 ex-Solido models in Dinky boxes... that's a whole n'uther topic!

4 hours ago, 155V6 said:

I think they they were re-branded Solido castings with cheaper wheels.I had the Fiat Strada,Peugeot 504,& BMW E12 which you mentioned.They came from a local market,without any packaging if I remember.The market also supplied the Rover SD1 & Jag XJ12C mentioned earlier,which came in bubble wrap I think.

Most are long gone,but I still have the BMW,although I dismantled it to repaint it as my 528i over 20 years ago & it's still in bits somewhere ?

The model shop where I worked in the mid-90s still had a few bubble-wrapped Volvo 265s kicking about, painted in bright orange... and for some reason, my memory's telling me there was some sort of Italian connection there?

This is becoming more intriguing...

5 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Fantastic tea n' toast reading DC!

So, how many of them do we have on here? I'll kick things off with the purple Accord 3dr:

Dinky Honda Accord No. 104 by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

Dinky Honda Accord No. 104 by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

The overall casting isn't too bad, it is recognisable as an Accord, but the grille is too deep and the bumper too low. The tailgate opens but there are no exciting details revealed inside.

Dinky HK range by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

I hope this is legible, I'm pretty sure that I had (probably still have) the Ford Van, in dark blue. I don't think it came to me new, probably acquired as a swap. I don't recall seeing many of them in shops and when I got the van it was something I regarded as not overly impressive.

As a child of the '70s the Dinky brand as a whole largely passed me by. Those I had from the first half of the decade were better and more solid, but later ones like the 1:36-ish Volvo 265 were clearly not of the same quality. Also, I mainly played with the 'small cars' so it was mostly Matchbox, Corgi and a few Majorette that were making an impression on me. By the time this Dinky HK range was launched my tastes were becoming a bit more sophisticated and discerning.......

Great going! That Accord's a cracker (also looks like it might be found inside a cracker, but hey ho).

The only two I had were the Chevette and the Firebird, both in pretty dreadful nick - now sold on, I think? If memory serves, @TheDoctor took the Chevette while the Firebird went to @bunglebus

Apparently the paint was especially piss-poor on this range, so they're found either mint and boxed like this Accord, or fooked like my two - not much falls inbetween...

9 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

^ Brilliant.

That book. You know, that book @Datsuncog....

Want me to start a crowdfunding page?

Heh, Giles Chapman kind of already did it all with his Car Wars book - I'm just grubbing round the edges, pretty much. Though I am belatedly trying to peer back through these pages and find any of my longer waffling to bookmark... just in case I need it.

Generally I'm just tapping all this out on my phone, so once I hit 'submit reply' it's basically gone...

[Split_Pin]

Hey I remember those weird brandless, unpackaged Corgi castings from the 1970s. My local RS McColl newsagent sold them in the late 1979s for 45p each compared to 99p for a regular model. 

I found them quite appealing and got the Mercedes 240d and Volvo 245. The latter had its suspension replaced with solid axle mountings.

[flat4alfa]

17 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Heh, Giles Chapman kind of already did it all with his Car Wars book - I'm just grubbing round the edges, pretty much. Though I am belatedly trying to peer back through these pages and find any of my longer waffling to bookmark... just in case I need it.

Generally I'm just tapping all this out on my phone, so once I hit 'submit reply' it's basically gone...

But that's just it - it's not gone.   This is a proper, backed-up, forum board; brilliantly searchable, easy to lay-out what you want to say tidily.

As apposed to a posting-board such as FB that is a waste of time for writing up content.  By the next day, all the effort has fallen off the bottom of the page.

I have a tool to back-up forum content.  Will see if it helps.

[Spottedlaurel]

57 minutes ago, flat4alfa said:

As a child I had little time for these Matchbox fantasy trucks.  Friends had them, but I never did.  Fantasy designs bugged me as a child, I think I saw them as somehow 'fake' and 'wrong' as I had no reference in my Observer's books and therefore weren't something ever seen on a real life road.  At least that's my recollection.

The fantasy trucks are interesting, Matchbox did quite a few. Difficult to know if they were based on real prototypes or concept sketches - I have vague recollection of seeing fantasy design for high speed trucks in old transport books and maybe even proper publications like Car Styling Quarterly.

[flat4alfa]

Interesting that on the Matchbox Fandom pages there is a scale of 1:88 given.  Which is all very well.... but what was their reference!!? 

The plot thickens.

[Richard_FM]

I remember some the 1970s Matchbox original designs looked like a cross between the quirkier Japanese designs & cars from Gerry Anderson’s shows.

 

 

[Richard_FM]

My younger cousins had a lot of quite basic due cast cars the looked like someone had got hold of some old matchbox or corgi moulds.  I remember the paintwork was plain & they had the same generic slightly oversized wheels. 

I can’t remember if they had interiors or just tinted windows, always the sign of a cheap toy car from personal experience.

[barrett]

1 hour ago, Datsuncog said:

Yup, the range of HK Dinkys (originally intended as Spot-Ons, as part of an abandoned foray by Lines Bros into the US market) were as follows:

57-001 Buick Riviera
57-002 Chevrolet Corvair Monza
57-003 Chevrolet Impala
57-004 Oldsmobile 88
57-005 Ford Thunderbird
57-006 Rambler Classic

Thanks. I have seen a couple of those before but had no idea of their heritage. Looking again, the bumpers and details in chromed plastic, and the wheel design, are obviously much more Spot-On than Dinky. I had never, ever seen the Rambler or Thunderbird before. The Rambler particularly looks brilliant

[155V6]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

OK, here's my shite degrees of separation reply, from the last page or so:

 

 

Looks like your Fairlane has turned up in rural Canada, now!

 

 

This is also I assume one of the aforementioned versions of the flareside pickup with camper body attached that was sold as a Dinky. This one has no Dinky signature on the base (or indeed, any maker's mark) but eerie that I took these photos over a year ago!

 

On the subject of Solido Dinkys, take a gander at this:

 

Cougar?

 

Nah, Dinky! Presumably the 07  80 is a manufacturing date?

 

Should anyone feel a desperate desire to own it, the buy now plus postage is just shy of a tenner to get it to mine, or around £18-19 all in, posted to me and then sent to the UK!

https://www.trademe.co.nz/toys-models/die-casts/dinky/listing-2608197500.htm?rsqid=8eedc39083e14795bce6fc69e006c2d0-003

 

The Peugeot 504 I mentioned had that Panther/Cougar logo on the side of the car

[DoctorRetro]

1 hour ago, Datsuncog said:

Hey, glad you liked!

Yeah, the Gardiner & O'Neill book is a bit patchy in places and sometimes unintentionally amusing (such as the assertion that "vehicles in the Lesney Matchbox 'Models of Yesteryear' range are far more popular with collectors than those of the 1-75 series" - which in fairness was probably quite true on first publication in 1985), although surprisingly it does give a passing mention to the HK Dinky range of 1980.

It probably reflects the interests of the authors I suppose, but it kinda annoyed me that the cover and first few pages contained group pictures including Matchbox Superfasts, but they were nowhere to be found within...

I haven't even touched on those 1/43 ex-Solido models in Dinky boxes... that's a whole n'uther topic!

The model shop where I worked in the mid-90s still had a few bubble-wrapped Volvo 265s kicking about, painted in bright orange... and for some reason, my memory's telling me there was some sort of Italian connection there?

This is becoming more intriguing...

Great going! That Accord's a cracker (also looks like it might be found inside a cracker, but hey ho).

The only two I had were the Chevette and the Firebird, both in pretty dreadful nick - now sold on, I think? If memory serves, @TheDoctor took the Chevette while the Firebird went to @bunglebus

Apparently the paint was especially piss-poor on this range, so they're found either mint and boxed like this Accord, or fooked like my two - not much falls inbetween...

Heh, Giles Chapman kind of already did it all with his Car Wars book - I'm just grubbing round the edges, pretty much. Though I am belatedly trying to peer back through these pages and find any of my longer waffling to bookmark... just in case I need it.

Generally I'm just tapping all this out on my phone, so once I hit 'submit reply' it's basically gone...

Yep. I started stripping it, with a view to a repaint. Has Corgi wheels on now too. 

I also have another Chevette (currently MIA) and the Accord you see here, both in Kidco format. 

[DoctorRetro]

Been working on the Escort some more. Slow progress, but I want it just right. Although not sure why, it's just going to be played with. 

[flat4alfa]

Gah!!    Went off on a meander to find the colour variations of Matchbox Skip Truck and Atlas

Then found out a Hungarian firm Metalcar knocked out 'copies' with different load ideas!!  It's a slippery slope...

The last one is a Code-3 - just wanted to get your attention

[Datsuncog]

2 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Hey I remember those weird brandless, unpackaged Corgi castings from the 1970s. My local RS McColl newsagent sold them in the late 1979s for 45p each compared to 99p for a regular model. 

I found them quite appealing and got the Mercedes 240d and Volvo 245. The latter had its suspension replaced with solid axle mountings.

Were they sold loose, from a plain cardboard box on the counter?

That model shop in Smithfield has a box just like that, with a variety of primary-coloured Juniors cars and commercials within. Think he's looking a three-figure sum for it, mind...

[155V6]

2 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Hey I remember those weird brandless, unpackaged Corgi castings from the 1970s. My local RS McColl newsagent sold them in the late 1979s for 45p each compared to 99p for a regular model. 

I found them quite appealing and got the Mercedes 240d and Volvo 245. The latter had its suspension replaced with solid axle mountings.

Here's a thought,I can't think of any Corgi Juniors that started life as the really nice ones in the box,(often near when the real car came out)that ended up as the really basic ones mentioned.

I'm thinking Sierra,Metro,Mk3 Escort,Capri etc,none of those seemed to last up until the end.

[DoctorRetro]

Well, it isn't perfect, but as a reasonable approximation of a Mk3 Escort estate, its passable. 

Still have to finish the bumpers and dashboard, but it's pretty much done now. 

 

 

[Datsuncog]

^^^ Looks pretty gosh-darn good to me!

[Datsuncog]

Remember that utterly grim K-2 Scammell Heavy Wrecker Truck that looked like it'd been dredged from someone's oil tank?

Amazing what a bit of warm water and a toothbrush can manage.

The glazing wasn't quite broken, other than a damaged roof light; it'd just fallen into the main body and got stuck there in the mud (the whole body was full of sludgy goo). A dab of glue has it back where it should be.

The springy mechanism that allows the rear boom to raise and lower was also broken, but a rectangle cut from a plastic bottle, folded in half and wedged against some of the chassis points, provides enough resistance to mimic the original movement.

The tyres are sadly a very loose fit owing to the usual Kingsize hub shrinkage, but they're still better than the later plastic wheels, I reckon.

Overall this has gone from a bit of a mank-fest to a fairly displayable little model. I'm well pleased with it now!

[Split_Pin]

I thought it was a different model there. 10/10 WUD DO LOCKDOWN AGEN.

[Datsuncog]

***Note to self: rinse MrsDC's toothbrush thoroughly before putting it back in the bathroom.***